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| DEMOCRACY IN MEXICO | |
 July 5, 2000  | |
| Jim
Lehrer leads a discussion with analysts on how
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| JIM LEHRER: The president-elect of Mexico promises a new politics and government for his country. Spencer Michels begins our coverage.
SPENCER MICHELS: Fox says he will seek to expand the North American Free Trade Agreement and allow even more merchandise to cross borders. VICENTE FOX: And our idea is to sell a long-term project where we move upwards from a trade agreement to a community of nations agreement or a North American common market, to move in that direction, which implies more than just trading and more than facilitating the transit of merchandise, products, services, and capital.
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| Battling drug trafficking | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: Now, three perspectives on what may be in store for Mexico. Robert Pastor was part of the election observer team headed by former President Carter. He was on Carter's National Security Council staff, and is now a professor of political science at Emory University. Bernard Aronson was assistant secretary state for Latin America in the Bush administration. Andres Rozental is an adviser to President-elect Fox. He is an international business executive and a former Mexican ambassador to Great Britain. First, Mr. Ambassador, on this issue of drugs, a multilateral agreement rather than the unilateral action that the U.S. takes now. Why? Why is that a good idea from Mexico's point of view?
JIM LEHRER: Is it basically offensive that the U.S. does this? ANDRES ROZENTAL: Well, I think in Mexico we've always felt that it's a little bit not only offensive but, to put it very succinctly, who judges the judge. After all, the major reason why there is such a flow of drugs through Mexico is because there is a tremendous demand in the United States for the drugs. And I think that we can do much better multilaterally on this issue, bringing in the South Americans, the Central Americans and also the Europeans. Our experience is that every time there has been a choking off of drug trafficking, say at the border or through the Caribbean, the drugs find their way to Europe and then come up to Canada and come down to the United States through Canada. So this is a global problem, not just a bilateral problem. JIM LEHRER: Mr. Pastor what do you think of that idea?
JIM LEHRER: Do you agree? BERNARD ARONSON: I think the United States is very receptive to that approach. What the United States wants is results, and if they have a government like President Fox offers, President elect-Fox, which wants to cooperate with the United States and not have a fight every year over whether Mexico is complying with U.S. standards, I think a U.S. Administration is open to that. JIM LEHRER: Would you concede there's a touch of arrogance to it?
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| North American common market | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: Mr. Pastor, on another one of President-elect Fox's ideas on trade, to have more of a North American common market, rather than NAFTA, how does that ring to you?
JIM LEHRER: The common market, Mr. Aronson? BERNARD ARONSON: I think ultimately that's where we will end up. JIM LEHRER: Like the European common market model?
JIM LEHRER: First world status, Mr. Ambassador, is that where Mexico is headed and wants to go? ANDRES
ROZENTAL: Well, I think the results of Sunday's election certainly put us at the
forefront of countries with a democratic process that works well -- surprisingly
well, considering that we didn't have either any experience or any knowledge of
how to bring power for JIM LEHRER: Where is the common market idea fit in to what you just said? ANDRES ROZENTAL: Well, if you look at the European experience, they're the free trade part of the common market, which preceded further agreements, came later on with regional development funds that were given to the countries that were below the levels of economic development, than the higher up countries in the European Union. And we put this question on the table when we started the negotiations with NAFTA back in the Salinas administration early on with President Bush, but because Congress was so skeptical about NAFTA and because it was clear it was going to be difficult to get it passed, the issue was squashed almost immediately, because of opposition. I think now after six years of the experience of NAFTA, which has been very positive for all three countries, Canada, the U.S. and Mexico, looking at what's happening over in Europe and what's happening in the southern cone Mercosur, I think that we need now to focus on what we call NAFTA plus. Where are we going to go from here? And there are obviously a whole host of issues, as Bob Pastor said, where we still have a way to go. And we think that should begin to be on the agenda between the two new presidents as they take office in December of this year and January of next. JIM LEHRER: Bob Pastor, do you think the political climate in Congress and elsewhere in this country will entertain serious proposal for a common North American common market?
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| Ending corruption in Mexico | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: All right. Mr. Aronson, let's go to the corruption issue -- of corruption. What do you use -- based on your experience, observing Mexico -- what's the level of corruption? What's he talking about? BERNARD ARONSON: You know,
when one party has ruled the country for 71 years without any competition -- and
has not only controlled the politics, but trade unions, segments of the private
economy, a huge network of patronage -- it is a breeding ground for corruption,
and that is what has happened other these decades. I think nests of corruption
is actually a pretty good term. And that is one JIM LEHRER: As we speak it does? BERNARD ARONSON: As we speak, of course. JIM LEHRER: Mr. Rozental, what would you add to that, help us to understand the extent of this from your perspective, of corruption in the government of Mexico. ANDRES ROZENTAL: Well, first of all, I agree entirely with what Bernie Aronson has said. I think our basic problem in being able to deal with these issues was precisely the fact that we had one party in power for so long, where the ingrained corruption and the very fine, if any, difference that there was between party and state, contributed to having corruption as part of the system. It was the oil that lubricated the system. JIM LEHRER: We're talking about bribery, we're talking about those kinds of simple bribery corruption, or does it go beyond that?
JIM LEHRER: Robert Pastor, how long will that take, do you think? ROBERT PASTOR: It's going to take a long time, certainly more than six years. But I agree with my two colleagues that Fox has the first opportunity to do something about it. Corruption, distrust and suspicion were endemic in a government in which there was a monopoly of power by one party. Now that you have a more competitive system, an open system, I think there are possibilities for changing it, but it will take time to establish an independent judiciary, an independent and credible prosecutor to pursue these charges. But I think the first step has been taken. JIM LEHRER: Okay. Gentlemen, thank you all three very much. |  | |||||||||||||||||||
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SPENCER
MICHELS: Two days after his upset victory, Vicente Fox, on the left here, set
aside his fiery rhetoric and met with outgoing President Ernesto Zedillo. Fox,
leader of the center-right National Action Party, or PAN, won the Mexican presidency
in Sunday's elections. The Institutional Revolutionary Party, or PRI, lost for
the first time in 71 years when Francisco Labastida, its candidate, was defeated.
The PRI is promising a smooth transition, the first peaceful transfer of power
from one party to another in modern Mexican history. Yesterday, speaking at a
news conference in both Spanish and English, President-elect Fox looked ahead.
Among his top agenda items is fighting the drug trade. Fox proposed a new hemisphere
-- wide body to combat the problem throughout the Americas, rather than the U.S.
imposing sanctions on countries that it says condone drug trafficking. 
VICENTE
FOX: The main aspect on drug-trafficking would be convincing the U.S. to substitute
the unilateral certification process on countries in Latin America on this issue,
to substitute it with a multilateral agreement including countries that produce,
that traffic or transit drugs, and countries that consume them. 
SPENCER
MICHELS: Fox also addressed the thorny issue of immigration. He pledged to create
more jobs at home, but he repeated his request that the U.S. relax its strict
border controls. On the domestic front, Fox pledged to tackle what he called nests
of corruption. He plans to create a watchdog group for law enforcement agencies,
which have been accused of criminal ties, torture, and domestic spying. The president-elect
also spoke of more government spending to alleviate poverty. Finally, he promised
to reopen peace talks in the southern state of Chiapas, where leftist rebels were
seeking greater autonomy from the PRI government. Fox takes office December 1st.
Today, President Clinton invited him to the White House. 
ANDRES
ROZENTAL: I think the point really is that there is no reason for this to be a
bilateral issue when there are so many other countries that are involved. There
are the producer countries, the transit countries and the consuming countries,
in terms of the drug trade. And we have always felt here in Mexico that the issue
needs to be looked at in a broader perspective. And I think that's what President-elect
Fox would like to do. We also feel that it's not just the United States that has,
that should have the onus of judging everyone else, but that everyone should have
the possibility of judging the behavior and the efficiency of each one of the
countries' efforts against drugs and drug trafficking.
ROBERT
PASTOR: I think it's a very good idea. For some reason we always felt we could
judge the rest of Latin America on a problem which we share. I think President-elect
Fox has offered a good opportunity for us to think about this problem in a manner
that we can share in the solution of it. And I think such a new approach may be
more effective than the approach that we've had in the past. 
BERNARD
ARONSON: I think it seems arrogant, and I think the arrogance really comes because
Americans confuse themselves about this issue and think that Latins can solve
it by themselves. Until we do something about demand, Latin America cannot end
the drug problem, and I think Latin Americans recognize that. And I think there
is some arrogance in it, yes. 
ROBERT
PASTOR: I think it's a very bold idea. NAFTA has been very successful for what
it was designed to do. It dramatically reduced trade and investment barriers,
increased trade and investment, but it has been inadequate for dealing with a
host of other issues from migration to drugs, to social development. Thinking
about integration in a broader context of a common market makes a lot of sense.
I think there's a lot that the United States and Mexico can and should do. And
Vicente Fox has suggested some of those ideas. 
BERNARD
ARONSON: Yes, but we're talking -- as Vicente Fox said -- he said, this is a long-term
project. But it's right to put those issues on the agenda. We are integrating
our two countries more than economically. I mean, you look at the population of
the United States, the largest Spanish speaking population in the world next to
Mexico will be in the United States by the year 2020. And there are issues like
immigration that can't just be addressed by having a trade agreement. But the
huge gaps between the two countries economically also have to be overcome. This
can only happen in the context of Mexico's development and gaining first world
status, which I think it is beginning to do. 
the
first time in this century basically. I think that that puts us squarely in the
forefront. Obviously our economy is a very large economy. We have a large population,
we are, within the world's ten top trading powers. But I think that we have to
be careful about seeing ourselves as a country that has solved its problems. We
have not solved our problems; we have a good deal of problems. We have 40 percent
of our population that is at or below the poverty line. We have needs in education;
we have needs in job creation. We have needs in many areas of our life. And I
think that we need to be careful not to triumphantly say that we're there. 
reason
among many why this election is so important for Mexico, because so long as the
PRI was in power, even though there are many good and honest people in the PRI
and many reformers, they had a vested interest in protecting their own and protecting
this machine. And even in this election, which was very clean and honest, some
of the old dinosaurs who were in the middle of that corruption and profited, were
part of the campaign team. And until that crowd was out and a new face was in
who had a mandate from the Mexican people to clean up the corruption and also
was not a part of the entrenched machine that had created it, you couldn't begin
to address it. But having said that, you should not minimize the task. This is
cleaning the Augean stables, because the depths of it are enormous, they go back
for decades. But also the drug trade has added a new dimension. You may remember
a few years ago a Mexican general acknowledged that he had been offered a million
dollars a month by the drug traffickers just to look the other way. And that kind
of drug money and corruption pervades the police, the army, the attorney general's
office, some of the judiciary. 
ANDRES
ROZENTAL: It goes beyond that. It's corruption that goes everywhere, in all aspects
of political and economic and social life. It's corruption among the unions, it's
corruption in the media. It was corruption in bureaucrats, it was corruption --
I mean, Mexicans grew up and still grow you knowing that corruption is the way
to get forward in life. And we have to change that. This is obviously one of our
biggest challenges, and I think and I agree with Bernie that President Fox, President-elect
Fox is going to be the first possibility to attack this, because he was not part
of that system. The PAN wasn't part of that system, the party that he represents.
And I think the people that will be around him in his cabinet and his government
will not be part of that system.