Online NewsHour: Pinochet Arrested -- October 19, 1998



	NO IMMUNITY

October 25, 1998

The highest court in Britain ruled that General Augusto Pinochet, the former Chilean president, is not immune from prosecution on murder, torture, and genocide charges. What follows are two reports, beginning in London with Lindsey Hilsum of Independent Television News.

The Scene in London.

LINDSEY HILSUM: It was the verdict they'd dreamt of, and when it came, they could scarcely believe it. Since General Pinochet was arrested on October 16th, the families of the disappeared and the dead have been hoping against hope that English justice would do what Chilean justice has failed to do - bring to book the man they blame for the years of terror in Chile.

VINCENTE ALEGRIA, National Organization of Chileans in Exile: Today justice has been done in this place. Today is an historic moment for the people of Chile, for the people of Britain, for the people of Latin America, and for all the people in the world, because finally justice has been done.

MAN: Thank you, Thank you.

LINDSEY HILSUM: Inside the Lords, the tension leading up to the judgment was acute. Lord Slynn concluded in favor of General Pinochet; so did Lord Lloyd. Lord Hoffman, a liberal South African; and Lord Steyn, also South African, found against.

The key was Lord Nicholls, a quiet academic who swung the judgment against the general. The minority view that General Pinochet should have immunity from prosecution was detailed by Lord Slynn, who argued "We are not an international court. For an English court to investigate and pronounce on the validity of the amnesty in Chile would be to assert jurisdiction over the internal affairs of that state."

But the argument of the three law Lords who said General Pinochet had no immunity was expressed by Lord Nicholls in these words: "International law has made it plaint hat certain types of conduct, including torture and hostage-taking, are not acceptable conduct on the part of anyone. This applies as much to heads of state, or even more so, as it does to anyone else; the contrary conclusion would make a mockery of international law." And he dismissed the argument that this will cause chaos in Chile. "Arguments about the effect on this country's diplomatic relations with Chile if extradition were allowed to proceed, or with Spain, if refused, are not matters for the court. These are, par excellence, political matters for consideration by the secretary of state."

At a packed press conference, the Chilean ambassador expressed the hope that the home secretary will now exercise his political discretion and not allow extradition proceedings to start. He has from now until next Wednesday to make a decision.

MARIO ARTAZA, Chilean Ambassador to Great Britain: Tomorrow, this embassy will present to the home office an official representation of the government of Chile in accordance with what is stated in the British Extradition Act.

LINDSEY HILSUM: Lady Thatcher, General Pinochet's old friend who took tea with him before his arrest, said the general should be allowed to go home on compassionate grounds and for the good of relations between the two countries. The conservative leader William Hague later endorsed her view. International reaction to the law Lord's surprise ruling was swift. In Spain, where the investigating judge, Baltazar Garcon's extradition words sparked off the whole controversy, Chilean exiles gathered in Madrid to celebrate the decision. A lawyer for the victims of Pinochet's rule hailed the judgment as an irreversible step towards the prosecution of crimes against humanity. In France, where General Pinochet is wanted for the disappearance of three French citizens in Chile during his rule, human rights campaigners and even members of the National Assembly, also celebrated. In Belgium, the implications for fugitive dictators were even before the ruling. Groups protested against the current leader of the Democratic Republic of Congo, Laurent Kabila, who's visiting Brussels. Likening him to Pinochet, they say they want him tried for crimes against humanity.

Chile divided over ruling.

JOHN SNOW, ITN: Supporters of the former dictator watched the Lords proceedings live on a large screen at the Pinochet Foundation in the capital, Santiago. When it became clear that their patron would not be coming home today, the response was anger. Chilean television, which ran live coverage, showed them hurling abuse at camera crews and journalists. Some were eventually turned upon and ejected forcibly out of the building. Gen. Pinochet's son said the decision was political and partisan.

AUGUSTO PINOCHET, General Pinochet's Son: (speaking through interpreter) My father has received a severe blow on the day of his birthday with a sadism and a cruelty that goes beyond the real condition of human rights.

JOHN SNOW: But will these forceful outbursts be matched by Chile's military, still fiercely loyal to the general?

ISABEL ALLENDE, President Allende's Niece: (San Francisco) I doubt that the military will do anything, but this could delay the transition. For a decade, we have lived in a transition to democracy in Chile. It's not a full democracy. And the country is very divided.

JOHN SNOW: President Frei, in a live address, urged Chileans to remain calm. He's sending his foreign minister to Europe next week to argue the government's case that Pinochet should receive immunity. The day, though, belongs to opponents of Pinochet, former victims and relatives of those who died or disappeared under his regime. They too followed events live and were overjoyed and more than a little surprised when the Lords' verdict became clear.

VIVIANA DIAZ, President, Mothers of the Disappeared: (speaking through interpreter) We are right, and today it's been confirmed in the Lords, and we will carry on until we get justice for every one of the victims and the families of the detained and the disappeared.

JOHN SNOW: For the Chileans, dancing in the streets of Santiago today, the Lords' decision was a giant step closer to seeing justice done.

The Scene in London.
	LINDSEY HILSUM: It was the verdict they'd dreamt of, and when it came, they could scarcely believe it. Since General Pinochet was arrested on October 16th, the families of the disappeared and the dead have been hoping against hope that English justice would do what Chilean justice has failed to do - bring to book the man they blame for the years of terror in Chile. VINCENTE ALEGRIA, National Organization of Chileans in Exile: Today justice has been done in this place. Today is an historic moment for the people of Chile, for the people of Britain, for the people of Latin America, and for all the people in the world, because finally justice has been done. MAN: Thank you, Thank you. LINDSEY HILSUM: Inside the Lords, the tension leading up to the judgment was acute. Lord Slynn concluded in favor of General Pinochet; so did Lord Lloyd. Lord Hoffman, a liberal South African; and Lord Steyn, also South African, found against. The key was Lord Nicholls, a quiet academic who swung the judgment against the general. The minority view that General Pinochet should have immunity from prosecution was detailed by Lord Slynn, who argued "We are not an international court. For an English court to investigate and pronounce on the validity of the amnesty in Chile would be to assert jurisdiction over the internal affairs of that state." But the argument of the three law Lords who said General Pinochet had no immunity was expressed by Lord Nicholls in these words: "International law has made it plaint hat certain types of conduct, including torture and hostage-taking, are not acceptable conduct on the part of anyone. This applies as much to heads of state, or even more so, as it does to anyone else; the contrary conclusion would make a mockery of international law." And he dismissed the argument that this will cause chaos in Chile. "Arguments about the effect on this country's diplomatic relations with Chile if extradition were allowed to proceed, or with Spain, if refused, are not matters for the court. These are, par excellence, political matters for consideration by the secretary of state." At a packed press conference, the Chilean ambassador expressed the hope that the home secretary will now exercise his political discretion and not allow extradition proceedings to start. He has from now until next Wednesday to make a decision. MARIO ARTAZA, Chilean Ambassador to Great Britain: Tomorrow, this embassy will present to the home office an official representation of the government of Chile in accordance with what is stated in the British Extradition Act. LINDSEY HILSUM: Lady Thatcher, General Pinochet's old friend who took tea with him before his arrest, said the general should be allowed to go home on compassionate grounds and for the good of relations between the two countries. The conservative leader William Hague later endorsed her view. International reaction to the law Lord's surprise ruling was swift. In Spain, where the investigating judge, Baltazar Garcon's extradition words sparked off the whole controversy, Chilean exiles gathered in Madrid to celebrate the decision. A lawyer for the victims of Pinochet's rule hailed the judgment as an irreversible step towards the prosecution of crimes against humanity. In France, where General Pinochet is wanted for the disappearance of three French citizens in Chile during his rule, human rights campaigners and even members of the National Assembly, also celebrated. In Belgium, the implications for fugitive dictators were even before the ruling. Groups protested against the current leader of the Democratic Republic of Congo, Laurent Kabila, who's visiting Brussels. Likening him to Pinochet, they say they want him tried for crimes against humanity.
	Chile divided over ruling.
	JOHN SNOW, ITN: Supporters of the former dictator watched the Lords proceedings live on a large screen at the Pinochet Foundation in the capital, Santiago. When it became clear that their patron would not be coming home today, the response was anger. Chilean television, which ran live coverage, showed them hurling abuse at camera crews and journalists. Some were eventually turned upon and ejected forcibly out of the building. Gen. Pinochet's son said the decision was political and partisan. AUGUSTO PINOCHET, General Pinochet's Son: (speaking through interpreter) My father has received a severe blow on the day of his birthday with a sadism and a cruelty that goes beyond the real condition of human rights. JOHN SNOW: But will these forceful outbursts be matched by Chile's military, still fiercely loyal to the general? ISABEL ALLENDE, President Allende's Niece: (San Francisco) I doubt that the military will do anything, but this could delay the transition. For a decade, we have lived in a transition to democracy in Chile. It's not a full democracy. And the country is very divided. JOHN SNOW: President Frei, in a live address, urged Chileans to remain calm. He's sending his foreign minister to Europe next week to argue the government's case that Pinochet should receive immunity. The day, though, belongs to opponents of Pinochet, former victims and relatives of those who died or disappeared under his regime. They too followed events live and were overjoyed and more than a little surprised when the Lords' verdict became clear. VIVIANA DIAZ, President, Mothers of the Disappeared: (speaking through interpreter) We are right, and today it's been confirmed in the Lords, and we will carry on until we get justice for every one of the victims and the families of the detained and the disappeared. JOHN SNOW: For the Chileans, dancing in the streets of Santiago today, the Lords' decision was a giant step closer to seeing justice done.


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