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| STARR TESTIMONY | |
 April 14, 1999 
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KWAME HOLMAN: The Independent Counsel Statute is set to expire on June 30th. Testifying before the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee today, Kenneth Starr said the law that authorized his six-year, ongoing investigation of President Clinton doesn't work, and shouldn't be renewed. |
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| Starr: act is "constitutionally dubious." | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Rather, the reason is this: By its very existence, the Act promises us that corruption in high places will be reliably monitored, investigated, exposed, and prosecuted, through a process fully insulated from political winds. But that is more than the act delivers and more than it can deliver under our constitutional system. The statute in sum tries to cram a fourth branch of government into our three-branch system. But invariably, this new entity lacks, in Mr. Madison's phrase, "the constitutional means to resist encroachments." The result is structurally unsound, constitutionally dubious, and, in overstating the degree of institutional independence, disingenuous.
KWAME HOLMAN: Committee members asked Starr how his position squares with his continuing his own investigation.
KENNETH STARR: Well, Congress frequently passes laws, the wisdom of which individuals may question, but their duty as law officers is to live up to their legal obligations. One cannot quote Mr. Bumble in a Dickensesque fashion, and then say "I refuse to enforce or carry out those laws." SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: If it's as bad as you say it is, maybe we ought to abrogate it now. KENNETH STARR: Well, I'm suggesting that it not be reauthorized. SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: That's different from abrogating it now.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: If we listen to your characterization, it's abhorrent. SEN. RICHARD DURBIN, D-IL: During the impeachment trial, someone on your staff said, "You know, I think in maybe two more years we can probably get this all wrapped up." And we know statements being made about this dogged pursuit of Susan McDougal and Webster Hubbell, until you finally get them back in jail. But I have to ask you point-blank: How can we justify continuing your authority or the authority of any independent counsel under this constitutional monstrosity of a statute, as you have described it? KENNETH STARR: Frankly I am very proud, you may disagree, I'm sure you do, of the record that career prosecutors and cadres have amassed against very difficult odds: The conviction of a sitting governor of a sitting governor of the state, the conviction of the then-recently resigned associate attorney general of the United States, and 14 others. We found, senator, serious criminality, and the two individuals whose names you've mentioned stand as convicted felons. And one of them chose to appeal her conviction, and her conviction was unanimously affirmed a United States Court of Appeals. So there were serious crimes, serious wrongdoing. So what do we do in terms of a going-forward basis? Once the statute lapses, the independent counsel is called upon to make a professional judgment as to whether it is required that he continue certain matters. And that's a judgment that I haven't had to face yet. But presumably, I may or will have to face that on June 30th.
KENNETH STARR:I tried to do that once, senator. (Laughter) SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: I know you did. KENNETH STARR: It didn't work out. But maybe you can do it for me, senator. SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Be careful what you wish for. |
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| Independent counsel as advocate. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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KWAME HOLMAN: Starr's report to the House of Representatives last year was criticized by Democrats for seeming to advocate impeachment of President Clinton for offenses stemming from the Paula Jones case.
KENNETH STARR: I think, Senator-- and it's a very thoughtful question-- that it would have put an undue burden of organization on the House of Representatives, the Judiciary Committee, and the professional staff of the Judiciary Committee. KWAME HOLMAN: Starr acknowledged his own ethics advisor, Samuel Dash, resigned in protest when Starr chose to testify in support of his referral. KENNETH STARR: And at that point, reasonable minds are going to differ. Sam Dash then said, "The referral is fine, but your testimony, you became an advocate." And I said, "Gosh, I don't think so." I kept saying, "This is up to you all." As we say in my native Texas, it's "y'all." You know, I've given you the information, and I've given it to you coherently and in an organized fashion. But y'all decide what to do with it, including throwing it in the trash can |
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| Right-wing conspiracy denied. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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KWAME HOLMAN: Following Starr to the witness table this afternoon was the panel of three federal judges charged with appointing independent counsels, a responsibility taken away from the attorney general when the Independent Counsel Act was reauthorized in 1994.
KWAME HOLMAN: David Sentelle is the only member who remains from the panel that appointed Kenneth Starr as an independent counsel, who, at the time, was considered to be a partisan choice. Connecticut Democrat Joseph Lieberman asked Judge Sentelle whether his selection of Starr was at all influenced by a lunch he had with Republican Senators Lauch Faircloth and Jesse Helms, two staunch opponents of the President's, just days before the Starr appointment was announced.
JUDGE DAVID SENTELLE: There may have been some discussion in one sentence of have we done it. I recall if there was or not. There was nothing unusual about that lunch, nothing improper about that lunch. And I've never done anything in my life as innocent and had as much made of it. There is no vast right-wing conspiracy out to get anybody. And if there one, we wouldn't meet in the Senate dining room. We'd do it by telephone or in secret somewhere. If we were that nefarious, we're not that dumb. KWAME HOLMAN: With the conclusion of this final hearing, Committee Chairman Fred Thompson says he'll now sit down with members of the committee to determine whether to recommend the independent counsel statute be rewritten, or simply left to expire. |
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KENNETH
STARR, Whitewater Independent Counsel: The reason is not that criminality
in government no longer exists. As Mr. Hamilton said in The Federalist,
if men and women were angels, government would not be necessary. Nor
is the reason that the public has grown indifferent to our tradition
of holding government officials to a high standard. 
In
conclusion, I think it is fair to say that the act has been a worthwhile
experiment. It has yielded significant results. The results, I believe,
support this conclusion: Jurisdiction and authority over these sensitive
matters ought to be returned to the Justice Department. And who will
oversee them? The Congress, the press, the public. 
SEN.
ARLEN SPECTER, R-PA: Let me ask you about your status to continue as
independent counsel, in light of your condemnatory language of the statute
you operate under. 
KENNETH
STARR: Oh, I think that's unwise, unless -- well, you could provide
-- you could provide, and I know that there was a -
SEN.
RICHARD DURBIN: And it is possible that Congress may intervene and decide
that in its judgment, it's time for you to head off to some university,
or whatever your future plans may entail. 
SEN.
DANIEL AKAKA, (D) HI: What did you feel the results would have been
if your office had provided the House only raw evidence regarding the
Jones vs. Clinton matter?
JUDGE
DAVID SENTELLE, US Court of Appeals: During my tenure, the court has
maintained a talent book that includes the names and brief biographies
of attorneys of relevant skill, particularly in federal and white-collar
crime. 
SEN.
JOSEPH LIEBERMAN, D-CT: Obviously there were questions, as you know,
raised about whether Senator Faircloth had spoken with you about this
decision.