---

Thousands of marriages fall apart every year, and the State of Louisana is trying to do something about the separations. It passed a law which went into effect last week allowing couples to choose a new kind of union called "Covenant Marriage."

---

A RealAudio version of this NewsHour segment is available.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Finally tonight, a new marriage law in Louisiana. We begin with some background.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Millions of Americans tie the knot every year, pledging to stay together till death do us part, but nearly half of all marriages fail. Divorce rates in the United States are the highest of any western nation, having climbed 34 percent in the decade between 1970 and 1990. Some in Louisiana argued couples weren't taking their vows seriously because it was so easy to marry.

BISHOP PAUL MORTON, St. Stephen Baptist Church, New Orleans: I'm surprised people have not literally opened up some places where you can rent wedding rings because it's just--we take it so lightly.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: In June, the Louisiana legislature dealt with the problem head on. It passed a law which went into effect last week allowing couples to choose a new kind of union called "Covenant Marriage."

BISHOP PAUL MORTON: You have that document as it relates to the "Covenant Marriage"--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: A Covenant Marriage is harder to enter and escape than a standard marriage. Couples must prove they've had premarital counseling and pledge to seek help if the marriage turns rocky. A standard marriage in Louisiana, which couples can still choose, allows divorce after a six-month separation or immediately if one spouses guilty of adultery or has been sentenced to prison or death. But a Covenant Marriage can't be dissolved unless the couple is separated for two years or can show proof of adultery, abandonment, physical abuse, or if one spouse is sentenced for a felony conviction. Catholic and Episcopal bishops and some Baptist ministers in Louisiana are considering making the Covenant Marriage license a requirement for weddings in their churches. Louisiana is the first state to offer two marriage options, but at least nine other states are also exploring ways to make it tougher to divorce.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Now, four different perspectives on Covenant Marriages. Louisiana Rep. Tony Perkins, a Republican from Baton Rouge, was the primary sponsor of the legislation creating the covenant option. Joe Cook is the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Louisiana. Lynne Gold-Bikin is the former chair of the American Bar Association's Family Law Section, and Anita Blair is executive vice president of the Independent Women's Forum, a women's policy organization here in Washington. Thank you all for being with us. Rep. Perkins, this is your legislation. Why did you think it was necessary?

STATE REP. TONY PERKINS, (R) Louisiana: (Baton Rouge) Well, legislatures around the country are continually dealing with issues trying to create new laws to address teenage pregnancy, juvenile delinquency, child poverty, a number of these issues. And now what the social sciences are telling us that these issues trace right back to broken homes. And so government has a vested interest in trying to keep families together. And this bill is not about making divorce more difficult. Its focus is on prevention and on treatment, on making marriages more successful by providing premarital counseling, and encouraging counsel when a couple runs into difficulty. And it's by their own choice. So we think it's a good step in the right direction on shifting our culture back to one of marriage versus one of divorce.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Joe Cook, the ACLU in Louisiana vigorously opposed this. Why?

JOE COOK, ACLU, Louisiana: (New Orleans) Well, because what we have in this case is the state enforcing religious doctrine. Originally, the bill started out by Rep. Perkins where the only grounds for divorce were abandonment and adultery. Those are biblical grounds. The other grounds were added as it went through the process over Mr. Perkins' objections. The state should not be in the business of enforcing religious doctrine. And, as the bill came out of law, it is more difficult to get a divorce on other grounds than it is on abandonment and adultery. Secondly, this particular law now is not in the best interest of women and children.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Okay. Let's come back to that. Let me go back to Rep. Perkins once more--before we go on. What about that? Does it enforce religious doctrine?

STATE REP. TONY PERKINS: No, it certainly does not. This deals with the civil contract aspect of marriage. And Joe knows. He's seen the legislative process. You never start out with a piece of legislation as you want to end up, or else you wouldn't have anything worth having. And so we started out with a very tightly worded document. And I'll add this. It is not for the first time actually in Louisiana law we have an expanded grounds for divorce. We actually are elevating to the same level as adultery and abandonment, as Joe pointed out, physical and sexual abuse. Domestic violence for the first time is being recognized in Louisiana law as serious of a breach as adultery.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Joe Cook, go ahead with your second point.

JOE COOK: Well, the second point is it's not in the best interest, especially of women and children, who usually find themselves trapped in a bad marriage situation. If the children are being emotionally abused, it's going to be very difficult to prove in a court of law to, first of all, even get a separation agreement, the same thing for physical abuse of a woman. You'll have to have photograph, perhaps, if the woman is battered, witnesses to come forward and air the dirty linen of the marriage in public. And that's not in the best interest of children, to have them go through this kind of situation. And there's no study, scientific studies, that have been done to compare children who had to stay in these kinds of abusive and neglectful situations, as opposed to children who have gotten--where there have been divorces.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Rep. Perkins, how do you answer that?

STATE REP. TONY PERKINS: That's a red herring. The issue is: Are we going to make marriages more successful? Women and children have suffered under no-fault divorce. What this does, this provides every avenue of escape, and it puts the person who's been offended in the driver's seat. They're the ones that will be able to make the decision, not the one who is the abuser but the one who is the abused. And certainly if a woman has enough of evidence to get a restraining order currently to protect herself, she certainly has enough evidence to get a legal separation or divorce under this law.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: All right. We're going to expand this discussion now. Anita Blair, do you agree that divorce is this serious a problem and that this is one way to solve it?

ANITA BLAIR, Independent Women's Forum: I certainly agree that divorce is this serious a problem. In my role as a policy organization in Washington I hear from people across the country. And what I see is an America under no-fault divorce that has a leading broken heart.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Explain no-fault divorce for us.

ANITA BLAIR: No-fault divorce is essentially a contract under which either person may unilaterally pull out without taking into account the feelings of the other person. And this is the predominant kind of complaint that I hear, whether it's a husband or a wife, you know, my spouse woke up one day, didn't want to be married anymore; I had no choice; I was forced into a divorce. And that is the post no-fault America that we live in.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: How would this change that, though? That still could happen. You just have to wait longer.

ANITA BLAIR: It still can happen. I don't think that the Louisiana law is perfect. It is not going to outlaw divorce in America. But it's a step in the right direction. It's a statement by the state that says we recognize the importance of marriage and the role that we have played in making divorce so easy to get and, therefore, devaluing marriage. And so we're going to, you know, give people the option to have the kind of marriage that they want. If they feel committed, then we will support their commitment. And I think it's a wonderful statement in the state of Louisiana that says we recognize how important marriage is, and we're going to support it. Ms. Gold-Bikin, how do see it? How important a problem is divorce, and is this the way to get at it?

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN, Family Law Attorney: (Philadelphia) Well, let me start off by telling you that, of course, divorce is a problem, but let's go back to what Rep. Perkins said in the first place, which is we're concerned about the impact on children. And Mr. Cook points out very well that we have never had a study that shows the impact of a bad marriage on children. We only look at the children of divorce. Divorce does not hurt children. Parents hurt children. There are a lot of children who have come out of good divorces, if we can use those words, parents who mutually agree to separate and do not pull the children back and forth like pieces of Turkish taffy.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: So, let me just interrupt for one minute. So, you're objecting to the premise that divorce is to blame for the broken hearts and all the things that people--

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: Oh, absolutely. And the idea that this wonderful law that Mr. Perkins has proposed is going to give the abused the right to control or the idea that this will give the person who doesn't want the marriage some say, let's keep in mind that when we had only fault divorce in this country the person who didn't want the marriage had the say. So, all we've done now is recognize the realities of a situation; that when someone is unhappy in a marriage, they're going to leave, whether it be a legal separation, a legal divorce, or moving across town, which is what people did in the 70's and the 60's when they didn't like their marriage. We ought to work on marriage. I don't disagree with that, but it's a little bit late--excuse me--it's a little bit late to start working on the marriage when the wedding dress is bought and the invitations are out. We should start working on relationships in third and fourth grade, in fifth and sixth grade, like the American Bar Association is trying to do with the partners program. We have developed a program to teach people about relationships.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I'll come back to you with some suggestions for solutions in a second. Rep. Perkins, how do you respond to her criticism?

STATE REP. TONY PERKINS: Well--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: That divorce may not be the problem and that this is not the way to treat it, even if it is a problem.

STATE REP. TONY PERKINS: I guess, in her view, we would just leave it the way it is. I suggest that we have to take steps to make our families stronger and make marriage more successful. It is a problem. And our children are suffering. The study done recently by Judith Wallerstein that tracked families over a 25-year period of divorce showed that the impact on children of divorce actually grew over time, spanning a period of three decades, having a tremendous impact on their lives. And these were families that were well educated, that had finances, that were well adapted. You can imagine, when you go down a scale on education and finances, that the impact grows even stronger.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Ms. Gold-Bikin.

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: The problem is that people are going to get divorced whether the state tells them they can or not. That's not the issue. We ought to make marriages stronger, but it's not up to the state to do that.

STATE REP. TONY PERKINS: The state is giving them an option.

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: Excuse me. The state is not giving them an option. People are going to be manipulated into this so-called Covenant Marriage, and it is--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Why? Explain why--

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: Why? Because--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: --you think there's no option.

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: I'm going to tell you why. Because first of all, a regular marriage is for life. To say that--to give it a different label, this is a slippery slope on the way to doing away with a no-fault divorce. This is to try to give control to a vindictive person in a relationship. You know, the idea that one person ends a marriage is naive. It takes two to end a marriage. It takes two people to make each other unhappy, and you don't start training people to get divorced, or to have a good marriage just before they get married. This is not the--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Okay.

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: --place for the state.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Let me go to--

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: Keep the state out of the relationship.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: --Anita Hall for a minute. Anita Hall, do you think that this is one step towards ending no-fault divorce; that this is a--there has been the view expressed that this is sort of a backdoor way of ending no-fault divorce.

ANITA BLAIR: There are a lot of people who wouldn't object to that. In fact, there are numerous groups across the country, Americans for Divorce Reform--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I'm sorry, Anita Blair. I'm sorry.

ANITA BLAIR: That's okay. Americans for Divorce Reform has been formed, and they are across the United States. They would like to see no-fault divorce done away with, and the institution of marriage thereby strengthened and given more value. There are lots of--you know, for people that want to live together or want to share economic benefits or something like that, you know, there is a legal thing for them, and it's called partnership.

And I think that Ms. Bikin is trying to say that there is- -there is marriage and then there is something that the state recognizes. But, you know, in our society they walk hand in hand. And if the state is going to support this wonderful social institution of marriage, it's got to get on the ball and say, we're not going--we are going to enforce the parties' expectation that it's going to be mutual and exclusive and forever.

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: But what if one of the parties doesn't work at it?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Excuse me. Joe Cook has been trying to get in here. Joe Cook.

JOE COOK: Yes. This particular law is a solution in search--in search of a problem to solve. Louisiana already has one of the lowest divorce rates in the nation, according to research done by the Children's Rights Council out of Washington, D.C., however, we do rank 49th in the quality of life for children in this state. We should be doing something to improve family life. And we could do that by lifting children out of poverty, one of the highest poverty rates in the nation, by improving our graduation rates, by improving our infant mortality rate and our teenage pregnancy rate. This particular bill does nothing to address those issues.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Rep. Perkins, why didn't you address those issues? Why choose this issue to center on?

STATE REP. TONY PERKINS: This is addressing those issues. That's exactly what is the--what comes out of broken homes. And while Louisiana is about 11th in terms of having to lower divorce rates, we still have a problem with divorce. And it's a national problem. And it's an issue that needs to be addressed at some point and some time. And this is the beginning of addressing it. All of those issues that Joe brought out are issues that relate to single-parent homes where children are more likely to be in poverty, less educated, have poor health, and at a greater risk for violence and for involvement in criminal activity. That's what this addressed.

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: Excuse me. That's not what the statistics show.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Joe Cook first and then we'll go to Ms. Gold-Bikin.

JOE COOK: Well, that's untrue. The majority of people in this state are already married, and the majority of children who have the problems that I just addressed come out of homes where there's a marriage. And that just doesn't hold up. So what we should be doing is certainly trying to improve the family and home life in this state and in this nation, but you cannot legislate good marriages. And that's what we are trying to do here in this case by the religious right wing.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Anita Blair first and then I'll go back to you, Ms. Gold-Bikin.

ANITA BLAIR: I would be very surprised if it were true that many of the children that are disadvantaged are in a two-parent, intact home. We have a terrible problem with illegitimacy today. And one of the reasons is that there's no reason to get married if you're not going to accomplish the security that you want. And no-fault takes away the security, so why get married?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Do you see this--Ms. Blair--

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: Excuse me. That's absolutely untrue. And I really would like to jump in here--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Go ahead.

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: --and say to you that you can't blame no-fault divorce for the problems. You have to look at the fact that the media holds up the perfect marriage that nobody can meet; that we have people moving away all over the country from families and communities so you no longer have a support system. You've got people living a lot longer. You've got fifty, sixty, seventy year marriages. So you cannot blame no-fault divorce for the rise in the problems. You've got to look at the society as a whole. But if you want to work on marriage, start working on relationships early on, not when people are getting married. And keep the state out of it.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Ms. Blair.

ANITA BLAIR: Well, we could work on it by shortening life spans. Is that the suggestion?

LYNNE GOLD-BIKIN: Not at all.

ANITA BLAIR: I mean, this is something that we can do and Louisiana ought to be congratulated for taking a step in the right direction. It may or may not be the perfect thing to do, but it acknowledges problems, and it works toward the solution.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Ms. Blair, do you expect now for other states to do this, and for this to be something that is a national phenomenon?

ANITA BLAIR: Yes. I think Louisiana kind of broke through the political logjam here. Many other states had tried to do away with no-fault divorce, but Louisiana has this very interesting combination of two kinds of marriage and a menu for people who may want to get married that allows people who might not be totally against no-fault divorce to, nonetheless, get on the bandwagon for counseling and making a bigger commitment.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And Jo Cook, do you expect the ACLU and other organizations to oppose this around the country as it becomes--if it does become a phenomenon?

JOE COOK: Well, absolutely. We've already received a complaint from a Christian minister who wants to challenge this particular law in Louisiana. And we're going to be researching it to see if it can be challenged. This is not in the best interest of women and children especially. And it's a throwback to the days before we had no-fault divorce, where people were trapped in abusive and neglectful situations and that is certainly worse than getting a divorce and getting away from it.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: All right. Well, thank you all very much for being with us.

REGIONS TOPICS RECENT PROGRAMS ABOUT US FEEDBACK SUBSCRIPTIONS / FEEDS:

Support the kind of journalism done by the NewsHour...Become a member of your local PBS station.
PBS Online Privacy Policy Copyright ©1996- MacNeil/Lehrer Productions. All Rights Reserved.