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| POWERFUL INFLUENCES? | |
 May 10, 1999 
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TERENCE SMITH: Hundreds of studies over the years have suggested that
there indeed may be a link, but as the nation examines the obsessions
of Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, and the Trench Coat Mafia, the questions
about the effect of fantasy violence in video games like "Doom,"
and this scene in the recent film "Basketball Diaries," grow
more intense. Hollywood-produced trench coat warfare, recently shown
in the film "The Matrix," is currently under the microscope,
as is popular music, where the link to aggressive behavior has been
less studied.
TERENCE SMITH: Steve Case, chairman of America OnLine, was among the guests.
TERENCE SMITH: The President announced that the U.S. Surgeon General will prepare a report on violence and youth -- the first in a decade -- that will include a study of the impact of video games and the Internet. |
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| Discussing the media and youth violence. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Allen Hughes, you just heard the President invite you to, in his words, consider the consequences of the films you make. ALLEN HUGHES: Yes. TERENCE SMITH: Is that a fair request to you?
TERENCE SMITH: Not be held responsible, then perhaps the connection doesn't seem very clear to you. ALLEN HUGHES: Explain that to me. TERENCE SMITH: In other words, the connection between what you might call depicted violence on the screen and violence in real life. ALLEN HUGHES: I think that yeah, kid can be influenced positively or
negatively, one way or the other. But I don't think that movies make
kids go kill people, no. TERENCE SMITH: Okay. Senator Brownback, you were at the session today. Where does the responsibility lie? SEN. SAM BROWNBACK, (R) Kansas: Well, I think you've got multiple levels of responsibility. I'm a parent and I've got responsibility as a parent. But I think you also have to look at the broader culture that we have. And it's a culture that's far too full of violence; much of that culture is framed by the entertainment industry. And I think they need to look at themselves, responsibilities that's there. And I think each one of us have to look at the culture that we create around us in our own families, in our own communities and see what's going on there. This discussion that we had today was really just the opening discussion of a much broader cultural problem that we have that we just have too much violence, too much glorification of violence in this culture. And we've got to reduce it. And it's going to take a lot of effort. There are no simple solutions. TERENCE SMITH: All right. Rob Reiner, do you believe that there's a connection, a cause-and-effect connection between violence that is depicted, let's say, on film or in entertainment of one kind or another and real life? |
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TERENCE SMITH: David Walsh, what's your view? Where should the finger be pointed?
TERENCE SMITH: Allen Hughes, there's almost an unspoken supposition that entertainment is today more violent than ever. Is it?
TERENCE SMITH: Senator Brownback, is that your impression?
TERENCE SMITH: Rob Reiner, if we put that question to the entertainment industry, what is reasonable to expect that industry to do? ROB REINER: Well, I mean, obviously, when you talk about regulating the movie industry or video games or whatever, you're bumping up against the First Amendment. When you talk about gun regulation, although I would advocate that because that's what I believe, you're bumping up against the Second Amendment even though the interpretation may be misguided. But Senator Brownback - and we've had this conversation -- the Senator and I -- when I was in Washington last - that, you know, we don't want to point fingers. We don't want to say it's all to blame. But what we have to do is start looking at what is the predominant cause for violent behavior? We know that it's not watching violent movies and videos because if that was the predominant cause, everybody who watched these things would be killing people. And that's not the case; and everybody who had access to a gun would be killing somebody, and that's not the case.
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| Recommendations for Hollywood. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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TERENCE SMITH: David Walsh, even accepting the notion that you have all expressed, that there are multiple causes and multiple contributions to this, what would you like to see Hollywood do about the entertainment component of this?
One of the things since Littleton that we've been doing at the National Institute on Media and the Family is putting together some plans to try to figure out, how can we really educate families and parents so that we can make them media-wise family. We have created extremely powerful teachers in the last half of this century. I think, if anything, we underestimate the influence of media in terms of setting social norms. Whoever tells the stories define it is culture. And I think, as we invite story tellers into our homes, whether it's Internet, the television, videos, video games, we have to become more educated as to how we are going to manage those. We are hopefully within a month going to be announcing a major initiative where we will be able to certify communities and schools so that we can really create a movement of awareness. We've had wonderful support from the community, even from the business community. Target Stores, a national chain of stores and said to us, we want to help you give parents the tools so that we can maximize the benefits of this technology while minimizing the harm. I think that's the challenge.
ALLEN HUGHES: Yeah. Of course, I mean, like I said, you've got to be responsible to yourself first, you know, because you've got to live with yourself when you go home. When we depict violence in our movies, we be sure to try to do it from a realistic angle. I mean, there's a difference between a movie like "Platoon" and "Rambo." And we saw both those movies in the same year when we were 12 years old, and they both had two different effects on us. So, I think that he's right about that. We do got to look at ourselves, but I don't think this Littleton, Colorado thing is the thing that we should be like-- oh, oh, you know, we've got to change everything. Kids die every day in LA, in New York, in DC, you know, from handgun violence in school, on the streets, wherever. It happens every day. This is no different - you know -- I don't understand why this is the thing setting all this off now, you know. TERENCE SMITH: Senator Brownback, we've talked about entertainment might or might not do. What about government, what's the right role here for government?
TERENCE SMITH: All right, Senator, Gentlemen, thank you very much. |
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TERENCE
SMITH: Long before Columbine High School entered the national consciousness,
there was a debate underway over whether violence in the entertainment
industry affects young people's behavior. 
SOUTH
PARK CHARACTER: I did it. I did it. I finally killed something! 
The
recording industry has taken a public stand against violence. On Friday,
the music cable channel MTV released a free CD and action guide endorsed
by the Clinton administration. Last week, most network and movie executives
avoided comment, but today, some were among the participants at a White
House strategy session.
PRESIDENT
CLINTON: To the media and the entertainment industries, I also say,
we need your wholehearted participation in this cause. We cannot pretend
that there is no impact on our culture and our children that is adverse
if there is too much violence coming out of what they see and experience.
And so, we have to ask people who produce things to consider the consequences
of them, whether it's a violent movie, a CD, a video game. If they are
made, they at least should not be marketed to children. 
STEVE
CASE, CEO, American OnLine: I think everybody recognizes that they're
part of the problem, and they need to be part of the solution. So I
think what happened today is an important step, and what happens in
the next weeks and months and years obviously is even more important.
TERENCE
SMITH: Joining us to discuss the issue are two filmmakers: Rob Reiner,
whose films include "Stand by Me," "When Harry Met Sally,"
and "A Few Good Men." He also founded the I Am Your Child
Campaign, a grassroots organization promoting early childhood development.
And Allen Hughes, who, along with his brother Albert, directed the movies
"Menace II Society" and "Dead Presidents." Also
with us is David Walsh, a psychologist who heads the National Institute
on Media and the Family. His book on the subject is entitled "Selling
Out America's Children." And Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, who
attended today's White House meeting on behalf of Senate Republicans.
He's on the Senate GOP task force on youth violence. Gentlemen, welcome
to you all.
ALLEN
HUGHES, Filmmaker: It is a fair request, and I think that in-- in that,
I mean that to yourself, you should consider what your morals are in
your household and if you have any religious beliefs, you should hold
true to those or artistic beliefs. But I don't think we should, as filmmakers,
have responsibility for everyone's child. That's just not acceptable,
I don't think. 
ROB
REINER, Filmmaker: Well, I think we have to look at it in a total picture.
I don't think that if you have a healthy, loved, securely-attached child
put in front of violent movies, that they're going to act violently.
I'm not saying that there's not an exacerbating factor with movies,
that movies can't affect a child's behavior. But it doesn't cause violence.
We're talking about something that affects your behavior and something
that causes violent behavior. And make no mistake about it -- if we're
going to get at the roots of this, we can point fingers at Hollywood;
we can point fingers at the gun industry, but unless we start dealing
with the root causes of violence, which we know based on all the brain
research we have that what happens to a child early on and whether or
not that child makes a loving, secure attachment with a parent or care
giver, that, ultimately, is going to determine whether or not that child
is predisposed to violence later on. So, if we're going to attack this
problem, let's look at it in a total picture and not just point the
finger at Hollywood or point the finger at guns. 
DAVID
WALSH: Well, I think there's enough blame to go around for everybody.
I think, you know, probably the first place we should all start to look
is in the mirror, because I think everything that's been said, there's
truth in it. The early experiences of a child -- the parent-child relationship,
the culture in which it exists -- I think those are all factor that
contribute. You know, a tragedy such as that happened three weeks ago
in Littleton, Colorado, there's not one explanation. There are multiple
explanations. I think the danger is, is that everybody is trying to
shift the blame on someone else. Everybody says "Well, don't blame
me. It's not my responsibility." And, of course, there's truth
in all of those statements. But I think clearly if we're going to change
this - I mean, Einstein said a long time ago, insanity is when we keep
doing the same thing expecting different results. Clearly, we all, that's
parents, the industry - you know -- all of us need to make some significant
changes so that we don't have more Littleton, Colorados.
ALLEN
HUGHES: I actually -- the 80's movies, 80's television and 80's rap
music was a lot more violent than the 90's. In fact, our last two movies
got labeled NC17, so we had to go back and research and try to get an
R, and there was a lot more bloodletting, a lot more body counts in
movies. There was a lot more car crashes and shootings in TV. They did
a survey on this. And the rap music back then, I'm talking about '88
for rap music, all they talk about was killing. Now they talk about
partying. So, it's actually gone - I'd say 80 percent of the violence
has gone -- has been cut out completely. So, I don't think you can really
point the finger at Hollywood or TV or music anymore because they've
done their part in toning it down. I'm sure they can do more. But they've
toned down considerably since the 80's.
SEN.
SAM BROWNBACK: No, it's not. And it's not what you would see out of
the Parents Television Advisory Council - the numbers that they've put
forward of the number of violent acts per hour of television. You see
some very violent movies that have been out recently. "Basketball
Diaries," you just had the scene on your show here. Much of the
shock rock and gangsta rap terribly glorifying of violence and misogyny
and you know, just name-calling of the worst sorts. I don't think the
industry can say look, we've cleaned up our act. At the same time, I
don't want to sit here and say that the industry is all at fault. We
have a lot of broad-based problems throughout this society and what
the worst thing probably for us to do would be to say "well, this
is solution and if we only legislate that, we'll get it done."
I think we all have to back up and take our share of the responsibility
and look at ourselves and say what different can I do to reduce this
culture of glorifying violence. That's what we've got to do. 
But
we have to start looking at the root causes of these things. The difficulty
we have is that movies and videos and music is visible. Guns are visible.
We can see them there. So we tend to look at those as being predominant
factors. We can't see the brain. The brain is not something we can see.
But we know based on all the research we have, that the brain organizes
itself in a certain use-dependent way. And if that child is not securely
and healthily attached early on, you'll have a predisposition of violence.
The finger doesn't pull the trigger. The brain pulls the trigger. So
if we're going to look at this in a total way, we have to give priority
to the one area that is most contributive to violent behavior. And that
is the development of a child vis-a-vis parents and care givers. That's
what we have to concentrating on. And, by the way, it's the one area
that we can pass legislation and we can do something. Government can
play a role. They can't play a role as significantly when it comes to
legislating the media or guns. So, I suggest let's look at the thing
that is most predominant and then let's work on that and know we can
do-- not to say that we should dismiss the others - because we have
to keep working on all fronts - but the one area that's most important
-- let's really make a concerted effort there, an effort we can really
do something about. 
DAVID
WALSH: With regard to the -- with regard to the entertainment component
of this, I think that there are significant changes that have to happen
on two sides of the equation. I think that producers of entertainment
really need to ask themselves the questions, you know, when I have to
portray violence, is it necessary for the story? Is it accurately portrayed?
Do I glamorize it? Do I trivialize it? And so I think the entertainment
industry really has a responsibility to how they portray violence. I
think on the other side of the equation, we have to mobilize families.
We have to create a movement. 
TERENCE
SMITH: All right. Allen Hughes, are you prepared to ask yourself those
questions? Do you-- when you're making a film and there are violent
scenes in it? Do you ask that question: Is this violence necessary?
SEN.
SAM BROWNBACK: I think there's several things we can do at this point
in time. And I think Rob Reiner hit some good points about-- you have
very highly protected categories of rights in both the First and the
Second Amendment. But I think there are some things we can do and we
can look at. Number one, we can provide an antitrust exemption to the
entertainment industries allowing them to enter into a voluntary code
of conduct and set a floor, set a base below which they will not go,
in this race to show more violence or more explicit language, whatever
the case might be. Let them set a code of conduct. I think we need to
study this more closely - whether or not actually our children are being
marketed violence by some companies. There's been a suspicion that that
is actually the case. We want the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission,
to look into whether or not violence is actually being marketed to our
children to sell more of a particular product. And then I think we need
to study the certain industries within the entertainment field that
we don't have as much information on -- music industry, video games.
Is there a correlation between very violent music and potential violent
activity or increased violent activity and susceptible young people
-- the same with video games.