HOW'S IT PLAYING? September 18, 1998 The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer Transcript

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Since the story first broke in January, the Monica Lewinsky investigation has dominated the American media. But how has the world's media reacted? Following a background report, Terence Smith talks with four foreign journalists about how its playing around the globe.

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A RealAudio version of this segment is available. NEWSHOUR LINKS: MEDIA September 17, 1998: A background report on how the story is playing around the world. September 14, 1998: A discussion on the media's coverage of the Starr report. September 8, 1998: Is Dan Burton's private life fair game? September 3, 1998: The Monica Lewinsky story follows the president to Russia. September 1, 1998: Financial news gains more and more coverage. August 28, 1998: A look at media coverage of Princess Diana, a year after her death. NEWSHOUR LINKS: THE STARR REPORT September 11, 1998: The Starr report and White House rebuttal. September 11, 1998: Mark Shields and Paul Gigot debate the potential impact of Kenneth Starr's referral to Congress. September 11, 1998: Two former federal prosecutors examine the legal issues presented in the Starr report. September 10, 1998: What is the constitutional basis for impeaching a president? September 9, 1998: Kenneth Starr drops off his case to the House. September 3, 1998: Four former senators discuss whether the president should step down. Browse the NewsHour's coverage of media issues and Congress. OUTSIDE LINKS: The White House The House Judiciary Committee. Yahoo!'s collection of links regarding the Starr Report.

TERENCE SMITH: For more on how the story is playing overseas we're joined by four foreign journalists covering the United States. Sebastian Mallaby of the British weekly, The Economist; Mohammed Wahby of Egypt's Al-Mussawar Magazine; Jose Carreno, of the Mexican newspaper El Universal; and Sylvie Kauffmann of the French newspaper Le Monde. Welcome to you all.

Is it really a big story?

Sylvie Kauffmann, let me ask you first, how big a story this is in France. I know that last week Le Monde published this special supplement on the Starr Report. So I take it it's a big story.

SYLVIE KAUFFMANN, Le Monde, France: It's a huge story in France. Over the past week, it's become really a front-page story every day in our newspapers, and Le Monde put out a special section on Saturday with most of the report translated into French. And the reaction to this report published in French by Le Monde was tremendous. We had – the sales went up for that particular issue 21 percent in Paris, and now we are getting some angry reaction from readers, who are appalled that we've decided to publish this trash, as they put it.

TERENCE SMITH: Jose Carreno, what sort of response in Mexico to the story, what sort of reaction is it provoking?

JOSE CARRENO, El Universal, Mexico: There is a lot of interest. There is – and also at the government level some concern because of the possible consequences on the U.S.-Mexico relations, and for the Mexican government a weakened U.S. president is bad news.

TERENCE SMITH: Sebastian Mallaby.

SEBASTIAN MALLABY, The Economist, Britain: Same kind of thing. We had it on the cover, as you showed before, last week. Tomorrow's issue will have it on the cover again, and for us to do two covers in a row is quite a big deal. We had two in August as well. And I think it's true for the British press in general and they've been flying extra reporters out from London. The BBC – you showed that the ITN was doing a lot – but the BBC – the government television station – which is not an organization normally known to splash money around – flew on Concord its anchorman out from London so that he could present the evening news from outside Congress.

TERENCE SMITH: Mohammed Wahby, in Egypt, and in the Arab world?

MOHAMMED WAHBY, Al-Mussawar, Egypt: I think the interest has even topped France, I mean, in our particular example, Al-Mussawar, our circulation has gone up about 50 percent – not 21 percent only. Not only that, but also the entire report is coming out now in the form of a book in the next two days actually.

TERENCE SMITH: Really?

MOHAMMED WAHBY: A whole book. That's all because of the heavy sexual content of the report. One commentator, Egyptian commentator, actually said something which was quite interesting. He said that it seems that Mr. Starr got confused and instead of writing a report to the Congress, he wrote a scenario for a blue film.

"I think mostly in France it's a kind of bewilderment at how far this country is ready to go about which we see as a trivial thing."

TERENCE SMITH: Sylvie Kauffmann, what explains the interest and the attitude in France? Is it the salacious, gossipy nature of the story, or is it the impact, as Jose Carreno was suggesting, on the status of the U.S. in the world?

SYLVIE KAUFFMANN: I think mostly in France it's a kind of bewilderment at how far this country is ready to go about which we see as a trivial thing. You know, there's been almost unanimous condemnation in France of Kenneth Starr and his decision to put all these details in the report. And his decision to go digging – to dig into the President's private life – and this is something which really for French people is really difficult to understand. You mentioned in your segment Mitterrand – President Mitterrand – personal history, and you know, this, I think, this hasn't upset particularly strongly French people. So it's very difficult for French people to understand why this country is putting its presidency in jeopardy for a private affair.

TERENCE SMITH: Right. Let me ask you, gentlemen, whether or not this sort of story, if it involved politicians or political figures in your countries, would produce this sort of public scrutiny and reaction. Jose Carreno.

JOSE CARRENO: I do not think so. The Mexican press is not there yet. We will be eventually, but by far, this is as Sylvie said, something that is concerning two private lives of politicians and this kind of mess is sort of expected as long as they keep it quiet.

TERENCE SMITH: You're not saying it doesn't go on; you're just saying it's not written about?

JOSE CARRENO: Correct.

TERENCE SMITH: Right. Sebastian Mallaby?

SEBASTIAN MALLABY: In Britain, we've had political sex scandals. I mean, David Melor, a minister in the John Major cabinet, was forced out of office because of a sex scandal. The difference is that there isn't the sort of legal superstructure which gets built onto the top in America. It's not a question of an independent counsel, or perjury, or legal hair-splitting about what constitutes obstruction of justice. It's a simple question that, you know, if you have public office, you need public trust. And if you make a public fool of yourself, you don't have that trust. So you should go; you resign; and that's the end of the story. It's sort of simple, quick. In a constitutional sense, I think it's quite elegant. And so Sylvie's talk of bewilderment I think does exist in England, bewilderment that America's legal and political machinery makes such a meal of this.

TERENCE SMITH: Mohammed Wahby, can you imagine anything like this involving political figures in the Arab world?

MOHAMMED WAHBY: No. I don't think so, because, first of all, we still cherish privacy very much in the Arab world, and especially when we come to this part of one's life, you know. But there's one aspect which actually I should refer to. It is a politics aspect in this story. Many people in the Arab world would say you see how in a democracy no one is above the law, so there is also that indication, that aspect, which people will look at and say, you see, nobody is above the law. So it's something also positive in the story.

"Please, can they bring this matter to conclusion, and we don't really mind whether it's in a way President Clinton or President Gore."

TERENCE SMITH: Does, Sylvie Kauffmann, does the American attitude towards this seem odd to the French, either hypocritical or puritanical, or whatever word you might select?

SYLVIE KAUFFMANN: Well, of course, there's this very old cliché in France that Puritanism ruled America, and I guess it's an old clichι, as this cliché which says that French – in France, affairs are a daily tradition, as I read it in USA Today the other day. I think, you know, it goes farther than that. I think the critics in France point out to the perversion of the judicial system, of the institution of the – the independent prosecutor. We had cabinet members criticizing in very strong words how far this process has gone and how dangerous it can be to the democratic process to dig so far into public officials' private lives. So there's – I think it's not only gossip or interest for salacious details. I think there's a genuine concern among French public officials and in the French public for this process.

TERENCE SMITH: Jose Carreno, you spoke earlier about the possible effect on U.S.-Mexican relations. Does, in your opinion, this whole controversy diminish the standing of either President Clinton or the United States in the eyes of the world?

JOSE CARRENO: I think it diminishes President Clinton, maybe not so much in the eyes of the world, because he is the President of the United States, the biggest power, but his efficiency to carry out policies, and in this case you can feel that in the last few months with the literal failure of the free trade of America's initiative and other policies that have been favored by Mr. Clinton. So a weakened American president is bad news for most of the world, and particularly for Latin America and Mexico.

TERENCE SMITH: Sebastian Mallaby, you, I believe, indicated earlier that attitudes towards what should happen now are changing in Britain. What do Britain – what do many people in Britain feel should happen now?

SEBASTIAN MALLABY: What I think has been a shift over the past fortnight or so from the kind of French attitude that Sylvie described, which is that it's ridiculous to make a big issue about sex, and I'm thinking, well, America does make this big issue about sex, if they're going to do so, please can they get on with it, please, can they bring this matter to conclusion, and we don't really mind whether it's in a way President Clinton or President Gore. What we want is a leader who can lead. And we're not sure that President Clinton can do that. I think on top of that there's – on top of the question of attitudes towards this individual, President Clinton, there is a question actually of attitudes towards America. I mean, the outside world is often bewildered that you have an American president who has the power to nuke Russia but not the power to guarantee that a nuclear disarmament treaty will be ratified by a Senate. You know –

TERENCE SMITH: It's called checks and balances.

SEBASTIAN MALLABY: Right. Right. But I mean it does – it's the most powerful figure in the world, but without the ability to appoint an ambassador to Mexico and have him confirmed by the Senate he can't even appoint his own ambassador. So this sort of strange mixture of big power and big weakness has always been curious, I think, to outsiders and creates some frustration. And this sense that America can't in the kind of quick way that say in Britain in 1990, Mrs. Thatcher was disposed of in a matter of weeks by her party, they just pushed her out. The spectacle of a long, protracted, agonizing, and transitional America now is quite disconcerting.

The scandal comes at a bad time for the Middle East.

TERENCE SMITH: And, of course, your magazine has called for the President's resignation. Mohammed Wahby, would that be the opinion in the Arab world? I know you've just come back.

MOHAMMED WAHBY: You see, that scandal has erupted at a time when it was considered in our part of the world to be most unfortunate. Why? Because finally, when President Clinton decided to take a firm hand of the Middle East problem, what happened, that thing has come out and it has completely paralyzed the President at a time also when the situation in the Middle East came drifting toward a big explosion. So everybody is worried now that the President is totally paralyzed, and they will not be able to do anything. That's on one level. On another level because of the Muslim fundamentalist danger in our area you have that vision, that image of the United States, according to them, that more integration has traveled from down upwards until it reaches the President, and that's a very, very bad – it fuels actually anti-Americanism –

TERENCE SMITH: Sylvie Kauffmann, in the few seconds we have left, just a final word from you, no call for resignation in France?

SYLVIE KAUFFMANN: Not only a call for resignation, but it was a pullout last night according to which 84 percent of the French people think President Clinton should not resign.

TERENCE SMITH: All right. Thank you all very much.

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