Online NewsHour: The State of Peace in the Middle East -- February 13, 1997

THE ROAD AHEAD

FEBRUARY 13, 1997

TRANSCRIPT

President Clinton and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met today to discuss the state of the Middle East peace process. They discussed where the talks should go following the Israeli and Palestinian agreement over the town of Hebron. Following a background report, Charles Krause discusses the negotiations with Dore Gold, foreign policy aide to Netanyahu.

A RealAudio version of this NewsHour segment is available.
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CHARLES KRAUSE: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been in Washington meeting with President Clinton and other administration officials. On the agenda were two principal issues: continuing the peace process with the Palestinians and reviving it with Syria and Lebanon. The President and prime minister held a news conference this afternoon. Mr. Clinton was asked about the prospects for a resumption of stalled peace talks between Israel and Syria.
PRESIDENT CLINTON: I would very much like to see the talks resume. And I think it's an important part of continuing the process, keeping it alive, keeping the momentum going. We had an extensive discussion about the whole issue of every aspect of the peace process, but I think the only way the United States has been able to be a constructive force in this process for the last several years is not to say anything which will undermine the prospects of its success. Well, if I'm going to follow the rule, I followed it since I first came to this job, until we have something to say publicly, anything I comment on will only undermine the chances of peace. I do feel encouraged by the discussions we've had, that there are things worth working on, working through. I'm hopeful that we can get the Syrian track going again, but I have nothing specific to say at this time.
REPORTER: Mr. President, I believe that you had a very lengthy private talk with Prime Minister Netanyahu. In your private conversation today, did he outline to you how does he see the future Middle East or the permanent settlements, peace settlements in the Middle East between Israel and Syria, between Israel and the Palestinians, or the Palestinian Authority, privately? Did he say anything to you about it?
PRESIDENT CLINTON: You mean, you want me to make the private talk not private. I mean--the answer is I believe he has thought through a way consistent with the security of the people of Israel that a comprehensive peace might be achieved. We all know that there are a lot of things out there that still have to be resolved, but I was impressed that it's obvious that he has been thinking very hard about this and thinking about it from a security point of view and from a point of view of peace and the long-term harmony and prosperity of peoples in the region. I was encouraged by that.
CHARLES KRAUSE: With us now is Prime Minister Netanyahu's foreign policy adviser, Dore Gold. Dr. Gold, thank you for joining us. Let's go first to Syria. The President said he was encouraged by what he heard today. I wonder if you could give us some sense of what Israel thinks it will take to get Syria back to the negotiating table.
DORE GOLD, Netanyahu Adviser: Well, I'm not going to go right now this evening into the content of the private conversations between the prime minister and the President. As the President pointed out, it's probably best to leave these things for another time because obviously statements made in this regard could undermine negotiations; however, I think what's very important right now is to find a formula that can bridge the differences in the public declarations of the two sides between Syria's insistence on resuming negotiations exactly where they left off and Israel's position saying that we must start negotiations without prior conditions, and with a readiness to consider the positions of both parties.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Has your government had any private conversations with Syria about restarting the talks?
DORE GOLD: We have not been having direct exchanges with the Syrians in public over these issues, or for that matter in private. We understand their positions. We have ways of understanding their positions.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Has the United States been--is there any reason to believe that talks may begin sometime in the near future?
DORE GOLD: I think there is reason to believe that both sides have had an interest in the past to be engaged in negotiations. The Syrians engaged with the Likud government in negotiations in the Madrid Peace Conference back in 1991; they engaged with the Labor government under our late Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, and former Prime Minister Shimon Peres. And it seems reasonable that they would want to engage again. We have an immediate problem, which is Lebanon, which is, of course, a sort of dangerous area which could be a kind of powder keg which both of us must seek to avoid exploded.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Do you think that Syria, in effect, controls what happens in Southern Lebanon?
DORE GOLD: Well, it's clear to us that the capabilities of Hezbollah are under Syrian military control; that when Iran decides to reinforce Hezbollah, it brings large aircraft into the Damascus International Airport, and from there, the equipment is transferred to Hezbollah in Lebanon. If Syria chose to close down Hezbollah and Hezbollah terrorism against Israel, we believe they have the capability of doing so.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Do you think they want to do that?
DORE GOLD: Well, I think they have different views or different mind sets about this. On the one hand, the Hezbollah can be a convenient instrument for them to pursue the negotiations. On the other hand, I'm sure the Syrians heard what President Clinton said today, and that is that terrorism and the pursuit of peace are incompatible. For them to--for the Syrians to get back to the peace table, for the Syrians to advance the peace process, which they tried to start doing back in the past, I think they have to try and take control of Hezbollah as the first order of business.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Now, since the helicopter accident last week, there have been renewed calls in Israel, itself, for a unilateral withdrawal of Israeli forces from the security zone in Southern Lebanon. Is that likely? Are you under political pressure to do that?
DORE GOLD: Well, I think what's happening in Israel is there's a sense of a certain intolerance with the status quo, but most Israelis are against a unilateral withdrawal. That just brings the Hezbollah closer to the international border with Israel and will convey or bring the fighting from the area of Southern Lebanon into Northern Israel, itself. What we need is Syria to assert the same responsibility it asserted vis-a-vis other militias in Lebanon, and that is to see Hezbollah disarmed. If Hezbollah wants to continue political activity in the Lebanese political system, that's their business, but if they're going to fire Kaytusha rockets into Northern Israel, as they did rather intensively in early 1996, that's our business, and that we have to prevent.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Do you think that Syria has any interest in allowing a partial settlement in Southern Lebanon without a comprehensive overall settlement of the outstanding issues between Syria and Israel?
DORE GOLD: Well, I believe the Syrians are interested that we engage in negotiations, and in those negotiations we'll be discussing all issues. It's possible that in a comprehensive discussion of the issues, the issue of Lebanon could arise. Certainly, if we are to create the proper environment for progress in negotiations, we must address this issue. Otherwise, the terrorism that would spring out of Lebanon would undermine these negotiations. That's what happened to the previous Israeli government. It negotiated for years with Syria. It had two mini wars in Lebanon, incessant terrorism on Israel's North, and eventually the people of Israel said no.
CHARLES KRAUSE: I understand that, but given what you've said about Syrian influence, control over the Hezbollah and others, in Southern Lebanon, do you think you can resolve your problems in Southern Lebanon without some overall agreement with Syria?
DORE GOLD: Well, we believe that the two principal supporting states for Hezbollah are Syria and Iran. Iran is far away, although it's supplying Hezbollah and training Hezbollah. Syria is close-by and Syria is in military control. We believe that to get in a kind of solution for Southern Lebanon and Hezbollah the address is Syria. Let me add one other thing. Hezbollah is not just a problem for Israel's North. Hezbollah is a problem for the whole Middle East, for countries as far away as Bahrain or Saudi Arabia. And, therefore, this isn't just our particular problem. This is a problem for the security of the whole region.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Do you think the Lebanese government is independent or strong enough yet to deal with in resolving this problem?
DORE GOLD: Well, I wouldn't want to estimate the strength of the Lebanese government. What's clear is that the power that should ultimately police our Northern borders should be the Lebanese army. And if such security arrangements can be devised in the frame work of our negotiations that would allow us to disengage from Lebanon, we'd be glad to do so as long as we're convinced that the threat to Northern Israel is removed.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Let me go now to the agreement with the Palestinians and what comes next. What does come next?
DORE GOLD: Well, I think the breakthrough in the Hebron accord and the post-Hebron agreements that were signed right afterwards is that we have now formalized in the Israel-Palestinian peace process the concept of reciprocity. This is no longer an automatic Israeli giveaway where we just pull out of land and hope for the best. We're demanding compliance on the Palestinian side with important elements of their commitments, especially the element of security. We cannot have a situation where clear terrorists who've been involved with Hamas and Islamic Jihad are let out of prisons by Mr. Arafat, men who were involved in the bus explosions in February and March that rocked Israeli cities like Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. So we're asking for compliance in these areas. If they play by the rules of the game, we'll play by the rules of the game, and the peace process will work. That's what we're trying to achieve.
CHARLES KRAUSE: And what's your estimation--you've now met with Mr. Arafat a number of times--the prime minister who said he wouldn't meet with them seems to be getting along rather well. Do you trust the man? Do you think that Mr. Arafat will deliver on his promises?
DORE GOLD: Well, international relations is not a question of personal relations; they're a question of mutual interests of the parties. We believe that Mr. Arafat does have an interest to make this process work. It answers Palestinian needs, but we have to make certain that he's not tempted to slip back to old patterns. We cannot have a situation that we had over the last three years where we spoke about a peace process, and we had an insecurity process throughout the state of Israel. We had more Israelis killed between 1993 when the DOP was signed and the last Israeli elections in May than in the previous decade from terrorist attacks from Palestinians. That has to be put to an end in order to make it succeed.
CHARLES KRAUSE: A last question. Are you comfortable with the level of U.S. involvement in the peace negotiations, and will it take a continuing direct involvement by the U.S. for this process to go forward?
DORE GOLD: Well, I think the U.S. is extremely helpful, and I have to give high marks to the American peace process team led by Dennis Ross in making the peace process work on the issue of Hebron. The U.S. involvement was essential, especially because it saved us time at a very critical period when neither side had complete confidence in one another. I believe that as the two sides create confidence, as they prove they can deliver to each other's needs, the U.S. can return to a more natural position of being facilitator and not necessarily involved in all the details of particular streets in Hebron.
CHARLES KRAUSE: Dr. Gold, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us.
DORE GOLD: My pleasure.

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