BACK TO IRAQ? May 4, 1998 The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer Transcript

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After bringing them to America, the U.S. government has decided that six Iraqis pose a security risk and must return home. However, the government won't say how they present a risk to national security; that information is classified.

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A RealAudio version of this segment is available. NEWSHOUR LINKS: April 28, 1998 Amb. Butler discusses efforts to verify the destruction of Iraqi weapons. April 27, 1998 Iraqi exiles search for an alternative to Saddam Hussein. March 13, 1998 A panel of experts debate whether it is time to lift sanctions on Iraq. Online Forum Noam Chomsky and James Woolsey debate U.S. foreign policy. March 4, 1998 An interview with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan. March 2, 1998 An interview with Iraq's Ambassador to the U.N. Nizar Hamdoon. February 27, 1998 Congressional views of the U.N. deal with Iraq. February 24, 1998 James Baker and William Perry discuss the deal's impact on U.S. foreign policy. February 20, 1998 A panel of experts examine the crisis from the Iraqi perspective. February 19, 1998 An exploration of public support for the use of force in Iraq as compared to past conflicts. February 9, 1998 Regional commentators give local perspectives on the growing crisis with Iraq. January 14, 1998 Iraq's U.N. Ambassador, Nizar Hamdoon, defends his country's actions. January 13, 1998 Amb. Butler discusses the latest disagreement with Iraq. Online Forum: What's the best way to deal with Iraq? November 13, 1997 Newsmaker interview with Deputy PM Aziz who defends his country's expulsion of U.N. weapons inspectors. November 12, 1997 U.N. Ambassador Bill Richardson discusses the Security Council's vote to impose stricter sanctions on Iraq. November 10, 1997 Defense Sec. Cohen discusses the situation with Iraq. Browse the NewsHour's coverage of the Middle East and the United Nations. OUTSIDE LINK: The United Nations

JEFFREY KAYE: Imprisoned in a federal detention center south of Los Angeles, six men from Iraq face deportation. Although the United States brought them here, the government now considers them national security risks. The case has attracted attention because its reliance on classified evidence has prevented the six from rebutting accusations against them. That, according to Rabih Aridi of the human rights group Amnesty International, violates basic standards of justice.

RABIH ARIDI: We believe they have been denied due process because they were not allowed to examine the evidence that was used against them. Nor were their lawyers. We are talking about a right that is clearly stated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and that is the right to a fair trial.

JEFFREY KAYE: The INS, the Immigration & Naturalization Service, maintains the men are not entitled to classified information. Paul Virtue is INS general counsel.

A Constitutional question: has due process been provided or denied to these men?

PAUL VIRTUE, INS: We believe that full due process has been provided to the extent we're required to do so under the Constitution.

JEFFREY KAYE: The men say they belonged to U.S.-backed Iraqi opposition groups formed after the 1991 Gulf War. In 1996, opposition members and thousands of other refugees fled to the border with Turkey after the Iraqi army attacked rebel strongholds in Northern Iraq. The U.S. flew 6,500 Iraqi refugees to the U.S. Island of Guam in the Pacific. The evacuees included some 600 opposition members and their families. The government felt a moral obligation to provide a haven, says former Defense Department Official Zalmay Khlilzad, now with the policy research institute, Rand.

ZALMAY KHLILZAD: They had worked with us closely. They had put their lives at risk. And also it's possible that they would have been killed or jailed, and if they had gone all over the Middle East, I don't know who would have been able to provide them a safe haven, since the Turks were unwilling.

"They had worked with us closely. They had put their lives at risk."

JEFFREY KAYE: Evacuees stayed on Guam for five months while INS and FBI agents investigated their applications for political asylum. The vast majority of refugees were settled in America, but government investigators concluded that 25 didn't qualify for asylum.

PAUL VIRTUE: The U.S. Government has had some concerns that because we had to evacuate people fairly quickly, without an opportunity to vet them overseas, as we mentioned, that people within the evacuee group might, in fact, have also been involved with the Iraq government and working on behalf of the Iraqi government.

JEFFREY KAYE: The 25 refugees were flown to California and placed in detention. After hearings, some eventually received asylum. Of the six still detained in LA as security risks, two are doctors; three deserted the Iraqi military to join the opposition; and one former soldier, Safa Batat, says he was shot and bombed by Saddam Hussein's troops, and poisoned by one of his agents.

SAFA AL-BATAT: (speaking through interpreter) I've been fighting the Iraqi government since 1991. And the evidence of that is apparent in my body--evidence, not words--traces of the bullets and shrapnel. And even now I suffer from the effect of Thallium, which is still present in my body.

Frustration from having classified evidence presented behind closed doors.

JEFFREY KAYE: In immigration court hearings held behind closed doors, the INS presented classified evidence and secret witnesses. In March, the judge ruled the men "pose security risks to the United States." Her public report cited inconsistencies in the men's stories. A separate, 92-page classified decision relied mostly on secret evidence. The men testified, but the fact they couldn't respond to the classified evidence against them frustrated their lawyer, Neils Frenzen.

NEILS FRENZEN: If someone told us we suspect Mr. X of being a foreign intelligence officer, or we suspect Mr. Y of being a foreign intelligence agent, we could respond to that perhaps by guessing. But nothing has been ruled out. We have simply had these vague generalities of national security that have been directed in our direction, with no idea of what the evidence is. And so our case has been one of guesswork. The use of secret evidence in a situation where one's life depends on it, and where one's life depends on being able to respond to that secret evidence, there's no place for it in the American legal system.

PAUL VIRTUE: I think we have to put this in context. I think the use of classified information in immigration court proceedings is very rare. We've used it a couple of dozen times in the last two years, during which immigration courts considered about four hundred thousand cases, so we're talking a very minuscule percentage.

JEFFREY KAYE: To get the classified evidence in this case, the legal team brought in R. James Woolsey, the man on the left. As a former head of the CIA, Woolsey was privy to the nation's top secrets. He still holds a security clearance. In March, he came from Washington to meet with the Iraqis and to criticize the government he once served.

R. James Woolsey: "This case at this point stands as really, I think a stain on the honor of the United States."

R. JAMES WOOLSEY: This case at this point stands as really, I think a stain on the honor of the United States.

JEFFREY KAYE: Woolsey signed on as the Iraqis' co-counsel, and filed a motion to obtain the classified evidence.

R. JAMES WOOLSEY: I believe whether it's me or someone else, that an attorney with security clearances, in order for fairness to be done, ought to be able to review this material on behalf of these men. If the government doesn't want to share the classified information with counsel who are cleared, it would be my very strong suspicion it's because the government has made some serious mistakes and has something to hide.

JEFFREY KAYE: Virtue says the INS has no intention of providing Woolsey with a classified document because his clients have no legal standing in this country.

PAUL VIRTUE: These are people who are seeking admission to the United States. Essentially they're knocking at the door, asking for the United States to protect them as refugees. The due process requirements are different for someone who has not been lawfully admitted to the United States.

R. JAMES WOOLSEY: They were brought to Guam, a territorial possession of the United States, by the U.S. Government, and they were taken from Guam to California by the U.S. Government. And the INS is maintaining this legal position that they have not been admitted to the United States, so it won't have to grant them any procedural rights of the sort that an individual does have if he's been admitted but then is in risk of being deported.

JEFFREY KAYE: The detainees say they are victims of misunderstandings by INS investigators, as well as the factional in-fighting among Iraqis. Dr. Adil Hadi Awadh, who joined the opposition in 1996, after deserting from a military hospital, says Saddam Hussein fostered a culture of suspicion in order to undermine his foes.

DR. ADIL HADI AWADH: We've been living among these accusations since a long time in Iraq. So it's a very expected thing to be regarded as a traitor in Iraq simply because of just the revenge purposes.

JEFFREY KAYE: The detainees say on Guam rivals unjustly fingered them. The refugees included men once ousted from the opposition who denounced the detainees, according to Mohammed Tuma, a deserter from the Iraqi army.

MOHAMMED TUMA: (speaking through interpreter) No doubt, they were trying to get back at those who expelled them from the opposition. And the responsible parties in Guam listened to them and didn't listen to us. And I don't know why.

PAUL VIRTUE: I don't believe that simply a disagreement or some problems between the factions would have led to this--would have led to people continuing to be detained in this circumstance.

JEFFREY KAYE: The decision was based on more substantive information?

PAUL VIRTUE: I believe so, yes.

JEFFREY KAYE: But Virtue said he could not disclose that information. However, one man with intimate knowledge of the Iraqi opposition says at least two of the detainees are who they claim to be. Warren Marik is a retired CIA case officer. In 1994 and `95, he and other U.S. agents worked out of this house in the city of Irbil in Northern Iraq. Guarded by rebel militia, the CIA team assisted the opposition movement. Marik says he worked with two of the detainees. One was Safa Batat whom Marik says arranged for the Americans to debrief Iraqi army defectors. In London, Batat publicly denounced Saddam Hussein for trying to poison him.

WARREN MARIK: I don't believe that Safa Batat is an Iraqi agent because of his activities in London.

JEFFREY KAYE: How do you know Dr. Ali?

WARREN MARIK: Dr. Ali treated me and members of my team in Northern Iraq. I had a terrible case of bronchitis. And he gave me medicine. He treated a couple people in my teams and--and they didn't die. That's-that's--(laughs)--rule number one. And rule number two was, you know, they--they were cured.

JEFFREY KAYE: So the fact that he didn't kill these people demonstrates to you that he could not be an agent of Saddam?

WARREN MARIK: Partially. You get into a good question.

JEFFREY KAYE: Marik says that while Saddam's agents did infiltrate the opposition, he knows of no evidence that implicates the detainees. The U.S. Government did not make Marik available to testify in the Iraqis' case. One man who did testify on their behalf is Ahmed Chalabi, the head of the Iraqi National Congress, or INC, a main opposition group.

AHMED CHALABI: I have no evidence and can see no way that these people are agents of Saddam Hussein. They are not agents of Saddam Hussein.

JEFFREY KAYE: Does that mean you can personally vouch for them?

AHMED CHALABI: I know three of them personally. The three people who belong to the INC, I know them personally.

A bleak future if the men are forced to return to Iraq.

JEFFREY KAYE: The detainees say if forced back to Iraq, they will be killed.

MOHAMMED AL-AMMARY: (speaking through interpreter) The verdict of the judge is a death sentence. All that is left is for the verdict to be executed in Baghdad. That's all that's left.

JEFFREY KAYE: The INS says if the men are eventually deported, they could try to find refuge in another country, besides Iraq. But in any event, both the government and the Iraqis' lawyers expect a protracted legal battle over the use of classified evidence.

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