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a NewsHour with Jim Lehrer Transcript
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A POSSIBLE BREAKTHROUGH

January 15, 1996

After terrorist attacks, a shooting incident by a Jewish solider and months of negotiations, a final deal on the Israeli withdrawal from Hebron appears imminent. After a background report, Jim Lehrer leads a discussion regarding the Hebron deal.

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NewsHour Links

Jan. 15, 1997:
ITN'S Sirah Shah reports on the new Hebron deal from Israel.

Dec. 18, 1996:
Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski debate a letter sent by eight former U.S. foreign policy chiefs to Israel criticizing settlements in the West Bank.

Oct. 15, 1996:
Warren Christopher discusses the state of the peace process.

Oct. 2, 1996:
A NewsHour interview with U.S. Ambassador to Israel Martin Indyk.

Oct. 1, 1996:
A NewHour look at the emergency White House Peace Summit between Netanyahu and Arafat.

May 23, 1996:
Seeing the Future: a look at the Israeli elections.

Browse the NewsHour's coverage of the Middle-East.

 

JIM LEHRER: Now the official Palestinian and Israeli views of this agreement. They come from Sholomo Gur, deputy chief of mission of the Israeli embassy in Washington and Hasan Abdel Rahman, chief representative of the Palestine Liberation Organization in Washington. Mr. Gur, is this agreement good for Israel?

SHLOMO GUR, Israeli Embassy: (New York) Good evening. Yes. I think it's a very good agreement. I think it is a very important agreement which reaffirms Israelis commitment to the peace process. It's the first agreement that they--that was signed by the new Israeli government, and I think that removes all kinds of suspicions and concerns that were with regard to the commitment of the Israeli government to the peace process. This proves that Prime Minister Netanyahu and the government is committed to the peace process and is ready to move forward on a reciprocal basis on the Palestinian track, as well as on other tracks of the peace process.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Rahman, would you agree that that's the most important factor in this, that the Netanyahu government has made a deal at all?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Well, it's an important agreement no doubt, but on the wrong road towards achieving a comprehensive peace. Yes, of course, there has been reluctance by the Israeli government since its election to come aboard and support the Oslo accords. We hope now that this Israeli government has signed the agreement they will--now we will have to wait for the implementation. We hope that they will implement what we have agreed on.

JIM LEHRER: Would you agree with Mr. Gur that that is the most significant part of this?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: It is significant that the Israeli government signed onto the Oslo accords because without the Oslo accords we do not have a peace process.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Gur, does this agreement have the support of the Israeli people, do you believe? We know it passed the cabinet eleven to seven a short while ago. What about the people of Israel?

SHLOMO GUR: Tomorrow we're going to have a debate in the Knesset and a vote in the Knesset, and I think that the response of the vote will show the massive support that the agreement has within the Israeli public because if previously it was alleged that it was the Labor Party and the left wing parties that was supporting the peace process, and anything on the right of the center was opposing it. I think now under the Likud government, you have first of all the left support of this agreement, and the Likud which is the right of the center, a major party, is joining, is joining this forces who are supporting peace; therefore, you have a vast majority of the Israeli population which supports the peace process. Of course, you will have an extreme element in both sides, in Israel, and on the Palestinian side, who will try to derail this process, and it will be the role of the Israeli government, as well as the role of the Palestinian Authority, to fight those elements and eradicate them in order to ensure that the same majority will enjoy the fruits of the peace.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Rahman, what kind of support does this agreement have among the Palestinian people on the West Bank?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN, Palestine Liberation Organization: I think it has an overwhelming support among the majority of the Palestinians. Of course, there's opposition to the agreement, which is natural and sometimes even necessary, but the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian public support the agreement. We have--we just concluded--our cabinet just concluded a meeting that lasted for six hours where the agreement was debated. It was approved. There was some people who reserved themselves on the agreement but ultimately it was approved. Now, again, as I said, we need really to move on the implementation because the implementation of this accord, what gives significance to the accord.

JIM LEHRER: What is the most significant part of the implementation? What are you most worried about when you say we must forward on the implementation?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: The question of redeployment of the Israeli troops out of areas B and C.

JIM LEHRER: That's outside of Hebron.

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Outside of Hebron. Hebron we know, and the agreement on Hebron was concluded about a week ago. That was not really the most important part.

JIM LEHRER: It's called the Hebron agreement.

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Yes.

JIM LEHRER: But that was--

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Yes, but the other elements of the agreement that are going to be negotiated concurrently, such as the safe passage between the West Bank and Gaza, this is an extremely important issue.

JIM LEHRER: Why?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Because it connects Gaza and the West Bank together At this point they are separated, and it is very, very--

JIM LEHRER: These are the two Palestinian areas --

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Are two components of the Palestinian territories and without free access and free trade and free movement of people it really dissects the Palestinian National territorial integrity.

JIM LEHRER: So from the Palestinian point of view you want to make sure--you're waiting to see if Israel actually is going to do that?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Absolutely. It is extremely important. And that's why we believe that the signature of the United States and the involvement of the United States and the guarantee by the United States of those accords gives those accords importance.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Gur, does Mr. Rahman--is Mr. Rahman justified in having some concern about that particular element, connecting the Gaza to the West Bank?

SHLOMO GUR: I think that's one of the issues that will have to be negotiated. And in the notes for the record it is stated very clearly that this will be one of the issues that will be negotiated and very shortly. But may I comment on another issue that Mr. Rahman said, and he was right in stating, that a very important component is now the implementation. And one of the principles of this implementation is reciprocity, and I think that is emphasized in the opening statement of the--the opening statement note for the record. And reciprocity is a key issue in order to move forwards in the process because alongside the Israeli commitments there are Palestinian commitments which has to do with transfer of suspect, with fighting terror and infrastructure of terror and, and the cooperation on the security side, completion of the abolition of the Palestinian covenant. All those are extremely important components of the agreement. And on a reciprocal basis with mutual trust I think we can move forward. But as I indicated, all those things have to be taken one step forwards, meaning the Palestinians have to stand by their word, by their commitment and now they reaffirmed their commitment today to the Oslo accords, and both sides could work together in order to move forward.

JIM LEHRER: That would be your counterpart to Mr. Rahman's concern about the Israeli, I mean, about the Palestinians, that they honor their commitments, and what is the most important one that you are concerned about, the one you just mentioned?

SHLOMO GUR: Those and as well as the important question of the regions from where the Palestinian Authority will operate, which has to be within the Palestinian Authority and not in other areas which are not part of the Palestinian Authority, mainly in Jerusalem.

JIM LEHRER: Now, Mr. Rahman, is there any question from the Palestinian point of view, that there is--this is a reciprocal agreement?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Absolutely. On the contrary, we are eager to have in this Israeli government a partner as we did with the previous Israeli government. We were seeking this partnership, and I believe that the only way to achieve peace is when we approach both peace with the spirit of partnership, and that this is not a zero sum game, that both parties will benefit from this peace process. And I believe that, I hope that this agreement will mark the beginning of this change of mind and heart by the Israeli government to perceive the Palestinians as their partners in this peace process.

JIM LEHRER: Many people said going into this that there is no way that Arafat and Netanyahu were ever going to make a deal about anything. Is this a new world here, a new world order?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Well, hopefully it is a new world. I'm glad to see that a working relation was established between President Arafat and Prime Minister Netanyahu, and that both will, hopefully, will act as partners in order to achieve the peace that our two people desire and deserve.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Gur, how would you assess the Netanyahu-Arafat deal, arrangement, relationship?

SHLOMO GUR: I think that a relationship, a partnership is being developed which is crucial and essential, for moving forward the process, and I think that what was proven now, that all those allegations about a new Israeli government, when it was elected, has to be withdrawn and now work in all parties--we, the Palestinians, the other partners to the peace process, as well as the other countries in the region have not worked in cooperation and close cooperation in order to create the environment which will--which will be able to induce this kind of peaceful relationship in the future.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Gur, I want to pick up on a point that Mr. Rahman made a moment ago, which is the United States' involvement in this. How important is the United States' role in this peace process right now?

SHLOMO GUR: I think the United States is very important, and I think this is the right opportunity to express our thanks first of all to the American president and the administration who--and the entire U.S. Government--that was ready to allocate time, effort, and bring this process forward. Its involvement was critical in the last stages as well as previously. And I think that its intimate involvement helped to achieve this agreement and its continued involvement will help to reach other agreements.

JIM LEHRER: Would you use the same word, "critical"?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Absolutely. In fact, the Palestinian cabinet issued a statement thanking President Clinton for his support for the process and his involvement and for the American team led by Dennis Ross for the positive role without which probably the settlement could have not been reached, and to Egypt for its positive role, and for King Hussein also and for--

JIM LEHRER: King Hussein got involved here in the last couple of days.

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Absolutely. I mean, so there are many parties that became involved in the achievement of this agreement, but President Clinton personally and the U.S. Government and the secretary of state and everyone was very helpful, and again, I repeat, without their involvement, probably this agreement could have not been achieved. And we hope and we urge the United States to continue being involved because we need the involvement and the support.

JIM LEHRER: For those of us on the outside, to you, Mr. Rahman, first, and then Mr. Gur, what should we look for in the next few days as a kind of a sign post to whether or not this is going to work?

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: Well, start first by the redeployment out of Hebron.

JIM LEHRER: Physically, the Israeli troops start to leave.

HASAN ABDEL RAHMAN: And transfer authority to the Palestinian Authority and to the Palestinian police.

JIM LEHRER: From the Israeli point of view what should be looked for, Mr. Gur?

SHLOMO GUR: First of all, I would have to look tomorrow for tomorrow's Knesset approval of the agreement, then signing the agreement, hopefully on Friday, and the immediate implementation of the redeployment in Hebron, beginning to build this kind of mutual trust which is essential for moving forward and then moving together to tackle the outstanding issues which remain from the interim agreement and further the negotiations with regard to the final status.

JIM LEHRER: Gentlemen, thank you both very much.


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