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| TROUBLED PATH TO PEACE | |
 July 25, 2000  |
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Madeleine Albright talks about the break-up of the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks at Camp David. After the interview, Israeli and Palestinian negotiators also discuss the talks.
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MARGARET WARNER: Welcome, Madame Secretary. Thanks for being with us.
MARGARET WARNER: Was it the President who pulled the plug on this summit? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that what happened was early this morning it was evident that we were not going to be able to move it any further, and it was basically a mutual decision that it was time to look at what we had accomplished and take a break. And I think that it was just general agreement among the leaders. But the President and I think really -- he worked so hard, Margaret, on trying to pull this together and give it his all, but I think at a certain stage it was evident that we couldn't move further.
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think it was kind of codifying a lot of the things that we had heard in the previous six or seven hours. I'm not sure I would agree with the characterization of how he put it, but it was evident in through that night that they had incompatible positions as far as trying to resolve the Jerusalem issue. |
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| Progress after the summit was revived | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Last Wednesday, when things also seemed on the verge of breakdown, in fact, they did break down, they were revived, and the President felt and both sides felt that it was worth continuing while he went to this summit. What made last night different from last Wednesday night? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think we'd had an opportunity in the intervening
time when the President left me there to deal with the delegations --
we had spent a lot of time in a variety of informal |
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| Barak's involvement and reaction | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Now, Prime Minister Barak held a press conference today, and he said that he -- essentially blamed it on Arafat -- and he said that Arafat was unwilling or not able or afraid to take the necessary steps on Jerusalem. Is he right to essentially blame the breakdown on Arafat? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that the way the President put it is that he praised Prime Minister Barak for his boldness and his creativity. Chairman Arafat is dedicated to peace, but I think he comes at it from a different angle. I don't think it's really useful to place blame. I think it's important to understand how truly complicated the issues are and this is a debate and a dispute that has lasted, you know, hundreds of years and is literally of biblical proportions, and I think that it doesn't serve a purpose to blame. MARGARET WARNER: Were the Palestinians willing to move at all on the Jerusalem, their original negotiating position? The President did say -- and we are running that tape -- that Prime Minister Barak moved more. But did the Palestinians move at all? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that the Palestinians were -- had certain ideas, but I think that one has to honestly say that Prime Minister Barak was the one that had the interesting perceptions and ideas. But, again, I think going into the details of this at this time is not useful. We had all kind of felt that it was better to talk about the value that had come out of the summit and a lot of very valuable things came out, Margaret, because, you know, everybody has talked about the permanent status issues at length over the last seven years as a result of the Oslo process, but you usually could kind of say things in three sentences, and what we did during these 14 days is really unpack those points, what should happen on borders and territory and refugees in Jerusalem. And both parties learned a great deal more about each others needs, about their difficulties, and so I think there was a lot of value in talking about these things. And, as you know, the issues had kind of been taboo before, and as I understand it, the press and the public opinion, especially in Israel, is now talking about Jerusalem in a way that they hadn't and it has created a vast public debate. And I don't think things are going to be the same after this summit because finally they are really talking about these crucial and essential existential issues for both of them.
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, they're all very difficult, and each one has a particular significance to someone and they have been kind of the backbone of the whole process and the problems, but Jerusalem is a unique place, and it's a unique place for all religions and it's unique in its geographical placement, and I think there is an intensity about that discussion that doesn't exist about anything. And I tell you, as you well know, I've been involved in a lot of diplomatic discussions, but the intensity of this is huge, and I must say I am humbled by the issues involved here. They are stunning; they were dealt with, I think, truly in a sensitive way and a way of understanding the complexities of it, not only in terms of the holy places, but how living in a city like Jerusalem affects the daily life of ordinary people, how it affects diplomatic and political relations. So it's a very intense debate. MARGARET WARNER: All right. Now, what happens next? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, the President has said, as you know from running his tape now, is that it's very important for them to go back and take stock of, first of all of, what they heard from each other and then what they're going to be hearing from their publics. Obviously, each of the leaders will have a different set of issues that they have to deal with. Prime Minister Barak has explained that he has a political situation he has to deal with. Chairman Arafat has to deal with his people. We are always ready to help. The President asked in this trilateral statement that was released -- was clear that they were to come back to the President, to me and to report really on how they are assessing things -- and we're ready to help whenever we can because we do think it's essential that the process keep going. MARGARET WARNER: If the reports are correct, Prime Minister Barak was ready to make as you said, significant concessions on the Jerusalem issue. How fearful are you that he's going to come under unbelievable political pressure when he gets home to, in fact, back slide from those commitments, which, in fact, he said today weren't really, weren't final commitments at all? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think it's very important not to characterize what he did or did not do. What is very evident is that -- and the President said this -- is that ideas were explored, but none of the commitments are binding, or the ideas are not binding, and nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to. That is true of various suggestions and ideas that we made or that both the parties made. And I think that Prime Minister Barak is the best judge of how he's going to handle discussions of what was on the table. MARGARET WARNER: I guess what I'm asking is how confident are you that he won't come under the kind of political pressure that will make him less able to be flexible in the future? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that he is the best judge of that, and, you know, he's a very tough, brave, and imaginative man. He knew, I think, what he was getting into. He wanted to, you know, he was the one who really wanted to have a summit. We talked about this a long time. The President believed that it was good timing for a summit because we're all looking at this date of September 13th, which is like seven weeks away, and I think Prime Minister Barak is a truly courageous man. He is a, not only a great military man but a great leader of his people, and he is -- he's the one that made, you know -- made the decision to move forward to go to the summit to try to resolve these issues. I think he deserves a tremendous amount of credit, and we obviously will work with him, as we will with Chairman Arafat. |
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| How will Arafat and the Palestinians move forward? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Is it fair to say that you believe that it is particularly incumbent now on Chairman Arafat and the Palestinians to find a way of moving on this issue? And, if so, what could induce him to do so? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think the important point here -- we have
said all along that the ultimate solution to the issues, these permanent
status issues, have to come about comprehensively and should have international
recognition and cannot be and should not be unilateral actions. And
I think that we hope very much that both sides will really see the value
of continuing a comprehensive negotiation, so MARGARET WARNER: All right. So you mean that's the inducement for him not going ahead with the threat to unilaterally declare the Palestinian state on September 13th? MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I think that he is much better off, and this is what we've said, is to have an internationally recognized Palestinian state with -- in partnership with Israel. The thing, Margaret, that was so evident in these last 14 days is how intertwined the interest and the people of the region are. They live with each other; they are dependent upon each other. And for them to go separate ways it's practically impossible. And so that's the inducement, is to try to sort out how they do things together with the support of the international community. MARGARET WARNER: All right. And do you think that now that these talks are in hiatus that the political climate will change enough on the Palestinian side to enable him to have this flexibility? And that's what I'm trying to really figure out here -- your assessment, just as you gave an assessment about Barak -- about Arafat. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I think that one would hope that his public would
understand as much as possible that there is no future in violence MARGARET WARNER: All right. Well, thank you very much, Madame Secretary, for being with us. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Thank you. |
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MADELEINE
ALBRIGHT: Good to be with you, Margaret.
MARGARET
WARNER: How critical -- much has been made in some of the accounts that
are coming out today about the 3 AM letter that Chairman Arafat sent
to the President saying essentially no point continuing because the
Israelis -- their position on Jerusalem was just unacceptable. How crucial
was that letter?
meetings
and settings fleshing out some of the issues that had not been fleshed
out in the previous week, and I think it was a very useful period. And
I think that having done that much, we knew where -- or the parties
-- when I say "we" everybody that was up there understood
better about where they could move and where they couldn't. So that
intervening period I think was very helpful in fleshing things out and
made it clear where there was progress and where we couldn't move at
this time.
MARGARET
WARNER: Let me just, before we jump ahead, let me just ask you one more
question about the atmospherics, because, as you say, especially Jerusalem
has been sort of a third rail of Mideast politics. I mean, no one wanted
to talk about it. Could you see that in the talks, when they finally
came to grips with it? I mean, was the atmosphere different when they
were dealing with say that issue than on so many of the other issues
they dealt with?
or
unilateral action. I would also hope that other Arab leaders would understand
that supporting Arafat, as he moves to having a peaceful relationship
with Israel is in everybody's interest, and so I would hope as people
assess the possibilities out of this summit, that's the part that's
so amazing, Margaret. We touched every subject, and we worked day and
night, and they worked together and saw each other and spoke in the
most informal terms -- there weren't a lot of formal meetings -- and
I think that when that story gets out and the possibilities are evident
to the Palestinian people, I hope they understand the value of moving
forward, as I hope also do the Israeli people.