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| CYCLE OF VIOLENCE | |
 October 12, 2000  |
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Escalating violence in the Middle East claims the lives of three Israeli soldiers.
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MARGARET WARNER: The violence between Israelis and Palestinians entered
a new phase today as a Palestinian mob murdered three Israeli soldiers,
and Israel launched helicopter gunship attacks on Palestinian targets
in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak warned
of more difficult days ahead. Why were these three Israelis soldiers at the mercy of this mob? |
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| Mob violence in the Middle East | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HASAN RAHMAN: Well, first of all they were taken to a police headquarters for protection. But the crowd was so angry, so furious over the killing of over 100 Palestinians and wounding of 3,000 in the last 12 days, that they were uncontrollable. It is not that they did not want to protect them. But they could not protect them because of the anger of the crowd.
TOVA HERZL: The Israeli government, anybody who watched the shocking mind-boggling video that we saw of an Israeli soldier being lynched by a Palestinian mob, and the same... I assume that the boy's mother or wife saw that as well, as well as everybody in this country and people who saw the American reaction, from the President down, to the events of today, the United States will not allow anybody to get away with it. Israel sent a message; it was a short, limited operation. It was forewarned, to say that restraint should not be interpreted as weakness. Israel will protect its citizens and Israel will protect its soldiers. And the lynching of people by a mob, when they're under police custody, was very, very troubling. We could not allow people to get away with it. MARGARET WARNER: Now several PLO officials today in the region called this, this Israeli strike a declaration of war. Do you share that view? And, if so, what do you mean by that? HASAN RAHMAN: First of all, let me say this. There were a hundred Palestinians killed. MARGARET WARNER: You're talking about - HASAN RAHMAN: -- in the last two weeks by Israeli snipers, by Israeli sharp shooters and 3,000 were wounded. All are civilians. We did not bomb Mr. Barak's headquarters or the defense minister ministry. Why? Because we felt that we are supposed to be calming down and not the violence and not escalating. I believe Mr. Barak's ill-advised policy borders on a declaration of war. And it will have exactly the negative effect because after killing so many Palestinians, for 14 days, and the Palestinians cannot be bombed into submission -- he has to understand that. The only way to have peace with the Palestinians is by respecting the rights of the Palestinians and not by killing more Palestinians. |
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| A declaration of war? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Is this a declaration of war? A whole new phase, the end of the peace process?
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Well, let me turn around these mutual accusations. Now, there are Israelis who say just as minister Herzl did, that he put this offer on the table and that for some reason Arafat has decided he can get more through violence or that he thinks perhaps as Hezbollah managed to do in Lebanon, that enough resistance, enough fighting, Israel will get tired and leave.
MARGARET WARNER: Okay, but explain, with all due respect, I don't want to rehash the entire peace negotiations but explain to the rest of the world or at least to our viewers, why the absence of agreement on the peace deal means violence. HASAN RAHMAN: No, we did not initiate the violence. The violence started as follows: Mr. Barak gives a permission to Mr. Sharon to go to Haram al-Sharif, one of the holiest places of Islam with 1,000 Israeli soldiers guarding him, and declaring that he is there to reaffirm Jewish sovereignty over Haram al-Sharif, which he calls Temple Mount. Now, the next day the Palestinians demonstrate peacefully. Mr. Barak orders his police and kills six Palestinians and wounds 200. That's where the violence started. TOVA HERZL: You know, I don't think it would be appropriate to have a long historical discussion about the relative sanctity of the Temple Mount, Haram Sharif to Jews, to Muslims, to other people, but I think the visit of Mr. Sharon to the Temple Mount, I think we're a little beyond using that as an excuse for what happened. I think freedom of religion and freedom of access does not entitle people to veto about the political opinions of one visit or another to the Temple Mount. I also think it does not include burning Joseph's Tomb and turning it into a mosque. So I think we should look at where we are now.
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| Stopping the violence | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: What will it take to stop the violence?
MARGARET WARNER: But what do you think, what will it take to stop this cycle of violence right now? HASAN RAHMAN: We made it clear from day one. Mr. Barak, withdraw your troops and your tanks from Palestinian territories. MARGARET WARNER: All right. Let me get an answer to that. HASAN RAHMAN: Stop shooting at Palestinians and let's have an international commission of inquiry. |
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| The need for an international commission | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: What about those two ideas? Withdraw all Israeli troops from the occupied territories and the international commission? TOVA HERZL: We are part of... we are part of a peace negotiation. I think what my colleague has just said, my counterpart, is that in order... you have chosen let Israel withdraw, let's determine the final results of the peace process through violence, rather than through negotiation. We were in a process of negotiation. The Palestinian violence stopped the process of negotiation. Now you are saying let's withdraw from the territories, let's do, a, b, c, d, e. Which territories are we talking about? This is a term... You're predetermining...
TOVA HERZL: But Israel has withdrawn from the bulk of them. HASAN RAHMAN: No you have not because.... MARGARET WARNER: Let me ask a factual question here. Are these territories still the subject of negotiation? HASAN RAHMAN: Yes, but Mr. Barak moved tanks into the entries of the cities and he stationed soldiers at borders. And that's where the points of contact, you know, the Palestinians do not have tanks and do not have vehicles and do not have long-term weapons. They have stones. MARGARET WARNER: All right. Let me ask you - HASAN RAHMAN: Why don't Israel move those troops from there so we have a disengagement and then we can go back to the negotiating table? MARGARET WARNER: The other issue is this commission. Why is Mr. Barak so opposed to this? TOVA HERZL: Mr. Barak is not opposed to an investigation under American leadership to find out exactly what happened. And Mr. Barak objects, given our long and unfortunate history with some international institutions for an -- HASAN RAHMAN: Do you have a problem with France? TOVA HERZL: -- an international commission of inquiry. Mr. Barak has expressed willingness at the very beginning at the outset of this, should American lead this, we would be interested to go along with this. HASAN RAHMAN: But we want some balance. We want with the United States that's the strategic ally of Israel, have some European countries. What is the problem with that?
MARGARET WARNER: We're out of time. TOVA HERZL: I think the United States has given its auspices to the peace process from the beginning. HASAN RAHMAN: Fine, but for this idea we need balance. TOVA HERZL: And these auspices have been acceptable to both sides from the beginning of the peace process. I think it's a matter... it's not a matter that we can say for this America is good, for this America... HASAN RAHMAN: We want America but we want always countries also. MARGARET WARNER: Mr. Rahman, we have to leave it there. Thank you for coming in. |
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MARGARET
WARNER: And what was the Israeli government trying to accomplish by
these strikes today? 
TOVA
HERZL: You know, these statements ignore the fact that Prime Minister
Barak and the government of Israel have been actively engaged in a peace
process. Mr. Barak has made offers and concessions, which would have
been inconceivable by any other Israeli administration. They would have
been inconceivable I think to most of the Palestinian leaders, and certainly
to the American authorities. And yet Mr. Barak, because he wanted to
break the cycle of violence, because he wanted to promise a better future
to our children and to your children, made concessions, which would
have been inconceivable. He risked his political future. I think we
cannot ignore what he has been willing to do. And we felt that we were
this close to achieving peace. And it seems that Mr. Arafat cannot take
yes for an answer. Why are we talking about bombing the Palestinians
into submission? We were talking about making concessions on strategic
issues, on political issues, on historical landmarks, which it would
have been inconceivable six months ago. And Mr. Barak was willing to
go not the extra inch or the extra foot -- the extra mile. We were this
close and Mr. Arafat apparently, I'm not sure why, was not willing to
go that extra inch, to go that extra little bit and reach final resolution.
Israel has no interest in violence. What interest do we have? If we
would have interest in violence, why would we go to make these concessions?
HASAN
RAHMAN: I believe that's totally not true for the very simple reason
that on the 26 of September, two days before the events, the massacre
that Israel committed in Haram al-Sharif against the worshipers on Friday
afternoon, that's after the visit, provocative visit of Mr. Sharon to
the Sharif. We were here negotiating in Washington, because the Americans
and the Israelis realized what was offered in Camp David was not sufficient
for an agreement. And that's why we were pursuing negotiations. The
problem with our partners, the Israelis, that they negotiate with each
other -- she is telling us, Ambassador Herzl, that Barak gave more than
Netanyahu. But what Barak gave is much less than what the international
community set as the basis for reaching an agreement. On Jerusalem,
on the territories, on the refugees, what Israel offered was unacceptable.
May
I remind you, and you and the viewers, that Mr. Barak, despite the very,
very terrible scenes we saw today, something which is very difficult
to forget, of the soldier being thrown out of the window and lynched,
and the glee of the crowd, Mr. Barak on this network said "I want
to go back to the peace negotiations." To go back and say Mr. Sharon
went on the Temple Mount, alleged Temple Mount, I think that that is
avoiding the issue of are we willing to go to peace, are we willing
to discuss the issues, are we willing to stop the violence? Israel is
willing to stop the violence. Israel has no interest in violence. If
Israel would have had interest in violence, it would not have made the
offers for the concessions which were so far reaching by anybody's standards.
HASAN
RAHMAN: You know, when the Israelis start viewing the human life of
the Palestinians as precious as theirs, when they start respecting the
Palestinians as their equals and not as their subjects, when Israel
starts dealing with the Palestinians not as vanquished people, but as
their partners in peace, that's when we will have peace. But as long
as the Israelis care about their dead and they do not care about the
100 Palestinians that were killed by Israeli bullets, we will not have
peace.