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| CEASE-FIRE COLLAPSES | |
 October 20, 2000  |
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After a background report, two experts discuss the situation in the Middle East after one of the deadliest days yet in fighting between Israelis and Palestinians.
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RAY SUAREZ: For more on the breakdown in the cease-fire between the Israelis and Palestinians, we go to Tova Herzl, minister for congressional affairs at the Israeli embassy in Washington, who has just been named Israel's ambassador to South Africa; and Hassan Abdel Rahman, the chief PLO representative in Washington. RAY SUAREZ: Tova Herzl, let's start with you. The deadline came and went. A cease-fire did not begin. Why not?
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| Delaying a cease-fire | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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RAY SUAREZ: Hasan Abdel Rahman, why didn't a cease-fire begin today? HASAN RAHMAN: The rage was against a massacre of Palestinians by Israeli troops. The Israeli killing of Palestinians has not stopped since Sharm el-Sheikh. On the contrary, it has intensified. And we saw the massacre today by Israeli troops of so many Palestinians, young as well as old. There are nine Palestinian martyrs today, and over 70 wounded and 200 more hurt. This is not a cease-fire. This is really a one-sided war declared by Israel against the Palestinian population. I believe that Mr. Barak is trying to pay in advance to Mr. Sharon in exchange for forming what is going to be a national unity government, which is going to be a government of war against the Palestinians. RAY SUAREZ: But let me follow up there. At Sharm el-Sheikh, President Clinton said that both sides, both Prime Minister Barak and Chairman Arafat had promised immediate concrete measures to end the confrontation. Now on every confrontation, there are two sides in confrontation. Did the Palestinians side...
TOVA HERZL: There were a few catch words in what Mr. Rahman said. One was the word martyrs. It seems that somebody wants martyrs for a cause, which would much better be served at the negotiating table. The second thing is as you saw in the ITN report, Palestinians started shooting; we only use live fire when we are shot at. We do not use live fire unless we are shot at. And somebody should ask the question what these young people, children by my standards, are doing where troops are shooting from; it's an excellent question and I think it should be raised. Why are children there where people are shooting? What is the point? And should we not respond when we are shot at? Should we not respond when we are shot at? Not one of these shooting incidents was begun by us. We do not throw live fire at stones. We shoot live fire when we are fired upon. HASAN RAHMAN: Those kids were protesting with the stones. Do you have to fire live ammunition to on them to kill them? There are Jews who sometimes throw stones on Jewish soldiers. Do you kill Jews? You kill Palestinians because you feel that Palestinian life is much cheaper than a Jewish life. We saw that the results of this confrontation, the report said, seven Israelis hurt, nine Palestinians killed, 78 wounded by live ammunition and 200 other Palestinians hurt. |
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| A nuanced response? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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TOVA HERZL: Certainly there is. We do not respond with live fire unless we are shot upon with live fire. There are other means, which are used when it's not live fire. But this is categorical. And for anybody to expect us not to shoot back when we are shot upon that's not...what kind of response is that to expect from anybody? Yes, we do shoot back. Unfortunately there are victims. There are victims, unfortunately. This violence has to stop. Now, Mr. Barak came out categorically after the Sharon summit in person and said we are prepared to comply. To this date, we have not heard a word from Mr. Arafat. What we heard was, after some pressure, a statement from Palestinian sources, not even from the Palestinian Authority, in parallel, the incitement, the official Palestinian media is continuing completely unabated. Today was a day of rage. What does a day of rage mean? We talk loud when there is a day of rage? A day of rage instead of a ceasefire? HASAN RAHMAN: Rage against the atrocities committed by the Israelis. You seem to miss the basic point. The basic point is that Israeli army is in Palestinian towns. It is in Palestinian villages. It's attacking Palestinians in their own homes. Those Palestinians are not in Israel. They are in Palestine. They are within the limits of Palestinian town. Why do you have to have tanks in Palestinian towns? Why do you have to have soldiers in Palestinian towns? Why don't you stay on your side of the borders? Why do you have to impose yourself on Palestinians? That is the basic problem. This is a protest by the Palestinians against 33 years of military occupation, denial of the basic political and human rights of the Palestinians. The Palestinians want independence from Israel. |
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| A "time out" in negotiations | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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RAY SUAREZ: In the last few hours the prime minister of Israel declared a time out in the peace process. What does your government mean by that?
HASAN RAHMAN: I have no doubt that 62% of the Israeli public want peace. The Israeli government does not want peace. Mr. Barak seems to look... wants to look for a pretext out of the peace process, especially after Camp David. That's why he deployed more troops in the Palestinian territories even before those events took place. There was reoccupation of the West Bank by Israeli soldiers, more settlements, more confiscation of land. So Mr. Barak, after Camp David, wanted to impose on the Palestinians what he could not get on the negotiating table. He wanted to achieve it from the Palestinians concessions by military force.
HASAN RAHMAN: He is confirming what he has been trying to do for a long time: To get out of the peace process. We declared our commitment to the peace process. We believe that neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians have any alternative to peace. It is absolutely nonsense any notion that the Palestinians do not want peace. We want peace. We are the victims of the continued conflict. We are paying the price. We pay it with the lives of our people. There are 120 people killed and over 5,000 people wounded. It is impossible; it is insulting even. It borders on racism, to accuse us that we want our people killed. RAY SUAREZ: We're going to have to leave it. This conversation will continue. Thank you both. |
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TOVA
HERZL: Israel fulfilled what it had committed to do as part of the cease-fire.
We opened up the airport in the Gaza Strip. We opened the borders between
Jordan and Egypt and Israel. We lifted the barricade or the siege beyond
the Palestinian city. Unfortunately in parallel, the Palestinian authorities
declared today a day of rage. We thought it was a day of cease-fire.
They thought it was day of rage. Rage against what? Rage against cease-fire?
Rage against the possibility of peace? It was a terrible day today.
It was a terrible day yesterday when a group of hikers, who might have
made misjudgment in where they should be hiking in this kind of situation,
were attacked by the Tanzim, which is directly controlled by somebody
who reports to Arafat. They were not evacuated. Somebody bled to death.
We are seeing terrible, terrible, terrible days. But it's not too late.
HASAN
RAHMAN: Absolutely. We issued a statement to the Palestinians. The Palestinians
abided by it. Israel, instead of withdrawing its troops, it erected
more check-points. It intensified its military presence in the Palestinian
territories and it intensified its shooting of Palestinian civilians.
Therefore, there was one-sided declaration, and that's ours. While Mr.
Barak was paying lip service to the cease-fire, he ordered his troops
to fire live ammunition on Palestinians. And we saw today what are the
results. 
RAY
SUAREZ: Tova Herzl coming out of the area, news reports have said that
the Fatah faction of the PLO was, in fact, had a militia out in the
field and they were shooting in the direction of Israeli soldiers. However,
there were also many thousands of civilians from the news reports, like
the one we just saw, who appear to be unarmed. Is there, in your view,
a nuanced response to these differing kinds of threats? 
TOVA
HERZL: The prime minister said that after the summit in Cairo this weekend
he will consider his options and see where the situation is going. But
may I just add that in parallel to what the prime minister said, I just
read the polls in the Israeli weekend papers. Amazingly the prime minister
is not doing so well in the polls. But 62% of the Israeli public, despite
what we have seen over the last few weeks, 62% of the Israeli public
still thinks we ought to talk to the Palestinians. We do not want to
be engaged in this. We do not want days of rage. We want peace. But
we want peace with somebody who wants peace; not with somebody who substitutes
rage for cease-fire, for somebody who replaces incitement for preparing
the public for the fact that peace does require some compromises. We
were engaged for seven years in the process of negotiations. We came
this close, and somebody had an interest to produce martyrs rather than
to produce a peace treaty. It's very sad. 
RAY
SUAREZ: So, quickly, when you hear the words time out, you're saying
that Barak is trying to pull out of the peace process.