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| MIDDLE EAST DEMOCRACY | |
 November 7, 2003  | |
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President Bush Thursday called for democratic reforms in the Middle East. During a speech in Washington, the president said Western governments should not back undemocratic regimes in the region. Margaret Warner discusses his remarks with two Arab scholars. Background |
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PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Sixty years of western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe, because in the long run, stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty. As long as the Middle East remains a place where freedom does not flourish, it will remain a place of stagnation, resentment, and violence, ready for export. MARGARET WARNER: To bolster his case, the president cited recent findings by a group of Arab intellectuals, published under the auspices of the United Nations Development Program.
MARGARET WARNER: In two recent reports, the Arab experts challenged regional leaders and publics to address what they called three "deficits afflicting the Arab world:" In freedom, women's rights and knowledge.
Yesterday, President Bush said some Arab governments were beginning to see the need for change. He cited some early democratic steps in Morocco, Bahrain, Qatar, Jordan, Yemen, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. And President Bush said bringing democracy to Iraq would play an essential role in transforming the region. PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution. |
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| Assessing President Bush's calls for reform | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Now, two Arab perspectives on President Bush's call for democratic reform in the Middle East. Murhaf Jouejati, a scholar at the Middle East Institute and adjunct professor of international relations in the Middle East at George Washington University. Born and raised in Syria, he's now a U.S. citizen. And Edmund Ghareeb, an adjunct professor in the School of International Service at American University, and author of several books on Iraq and on the Middle East. Born in Lebanon, he's a U.S. citizen. Welcome to you both. Murhaf Jouejati, what did you make of President Bush's call on Arab governments to make democratic reforms?
MARGARET WARNER: Important message to the Arab political elite?
MARGARET WARNER: Before we go on with the president's speech, let me ask you both about -- both he and these two reports that we've seen link -- say that the lack of political freedom is really at the root of the lack of development in the Arab world: Education, media, scientific inquiry and learning. Do you agree with that? Is that a big problem? MURHAF JOUEJATI: I think no doubt. When people are confined politically, they cannot grow economically. They cannot create. Their creativity has to be unleashed and that can only happen through democracy. So, yes, political and economic underdevelopment at the end of the day, is really tied to the fact that these are despotic authoritarian regimes that are dominating societies, that are unable to advance as a result of these dictatorships.
EDMUND GHAREEB: I'm not sure they are absolutely incompatible, but of course it would be preferable to have economic development, economic growth at the same time and perhaps some privatization as well, and have freedom in addition. I think both are necessary. The problem is what has been the problems behind the situation in the Middle East? Has it been simply just the absence of freedom? I think it's much more complex than that. It has something to do with history, has something to do with economics, it has to do with culture, it has to do with foreign interference in the region. All of these are important when it comes to what has happened over the past 60, 70 years. |
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| An admission of past failures in the region? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: So what did you both make, and you referred to this professor, but I'll ask you Mr. Jouejati, of the quote we just ran from the president. The guts of his speech really is too that the U.S. has an important role to play, and he said 60 years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe, stability can't be purchased at the expense of liberty.
MARGARET WARNER: Did you see it one as an admission of failure as Mr. Jouejati did on the part of the U.S. government? And specifically which regimes do you think he is talking about or to which regimes do you think it applies?
Why didn't he refer, for example to 50 years ago, to what happened in Iran, the overthrow by the United States and by England, the CIA and MI-6 interfered to overthrow the democratically elected government of Mossadegh. That's one of the most important historical events in the region that people now refer to and talk about because they see it as an attempt by the United States, by the West in fact, to block democratic transformation and to bring governments that are not representative of the people and that are, that they want to bring governments that serve western interests and help perhaps the control over oil because oil is an important factor at that time. |
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| The possibility of pressure on Egypt and Syria | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Have either of you seen evidence that the U.S. is ready to press, for instance, the president referred specifically to Egypt and Saudi Arabia, two countries with long-standing U.S. ties, saying he wished, he thought they should lead in this transformation. What do you think the U.S. has to do? Do you see any evidence the U.S. Is exercising is any kind of -- I don't want to say pressure because maybe that's not what you think is required, but doing anything to move them?
Case in point: In Syria recently, a Syrian leadership that wanted to reshuffle the cabinet and to bring in a new reformist team, this has not happened as a result of U.S. pressure because the president of Syria feared that he would be seen as bowing to American pressure. So we have to be very careful with the use of pressure. I think the United States needs to encourage these societies and these states to open up rather than to use simply sticks, because in the end that is going to be counterproductive. MARGARET WARNER: Your view on that.
MARGARET WARNER: So they saw it as a question of being a target. EDMUND GHAREEB: Not only that. They saw who was the target of this speech. They believe, one person said the target of this speech was American audience; that American president was coming to an election year, was having difficulty, facing difficulties in Iraq, facing difficulties in the Middle East, he wanted to address his own people first, to mobilize support for people of Iraq. Secondly, he was talking to the people of Middle East. One -- the other person, however focused on the angle that Professor Jouejati mentioned, and that's Syria, was he targeting, priming Syria and Iran? Was he priming Syria to be part of the axis of evil? |
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| The Arab world reacts to the speech | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: What did you hear in the reaction and what did you read? I assume you have been looking at the Internet and Arab television, to this speech?
MARGARET WARNER: Another big assertion in this speech by the president, and we've heard it before, but he made it again, is that transforming Iraq into a democracy will be an absolutely, you know, watershed event, I think is what he said. Do you think that's true? EDMUND GHAREEB: Well, absolutely. If Iraq could be transformed by the United States toward democracy, there is no doubt it would be a model for the whole region. The question is this -- how feasible, how likely is something like this to happen. So far what we've seen, in fact situation is becoming much more complex, more messy, and in fact the arena here was at least a country that was more secular, it's becoming a target for some of the more radical forces, Islamic radicalism, radical nationalists are emerging in the area. So it is doing at least so far has achieved the opposite of what has been declared. MURHAF JOUEJATI: We have to be very careful here with our wishes for a spillover effect. A democratic Iraq that is governed by the Iraqi people is a very good thing and would send wonderful, positive democratic messages to the rest of the Middle East. But we are not there yet; this is No. 1. And No. 2, we have to look around in the neighborhood. A democratizing Yemen has not pushed Saudi Arabia towards democracy. A democratizing Lebanon has not pushed Syria towards democracy, nor has a democratizing Morocco done anything to Algeria. So here it would be a great thing if Iraq could do that, but we have to be very careful in our expectations. MARGARET WARNER: So bottom line, how realistic did you feel yesterday's speech was or was it not intended to be? Was that not the point?
MURHAF JOUEJATI: I like the speech very much. I'm happy it sent the message to the Arab political elite. It is high time that the Arab world democratized, and there is nothing to justify the lack thereof. And I do hope that these words translate into deeds very soon. MARGARET WARNER: Murhaf Jouejati and Professor Ghareeb, thank you. |
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MARGARET
WARNER: President Bush yesterday laid out his vision for a democratic
Middle East. In a speech in Washington, he said the West won't be truly
secure until autocratic Arab regimes make political and civic reforms.
PRESIDENT
GEORGE W. BUSH: In the words of a recent report by Arab scholars, the
global wave of democracy has, and I quote, "barely reached the
Arab states." They continue, "this freedom deficit undermines
human development, and is one of the most painful manifestations of
lagging political development." The freedom deficit they describe
has terrible consequences for the people of the Middle East and for
the world. 
This
year's report painted a bleak picture of the widening gaps between Arab
countries and the rest of the world in media, scientific inquiry and
education. And in some countries, the report said, alliances between
conservative religious leaders and oppressive regimes have exacerbated
the problem. To close the gaps, the authors recommended democratic changes
that would "remove all restrictions on essential freedoms."
MURHAF
JOUEJATI: I think it was a very good call. I think it was a very good
message. It was a very good speech, although I have a few problems here
and there with it. But on the whole, it was a great message, and I am
happy that this was an opportunity to send the message to the Arab political
elite that it needs to change and it needs to change now. 
EDMUND
GHAREEB: Absolutely, it's an important message to the Arab political
elite and important message when it comes to the idea of democracy.
I think it is an important speech we heard. The reference that he made
to the mistakes that were made by the West, the support for authoritarian
governments in the past was very important. And also something else
he said, that Islam is not incompatible with democracy. I thought that
was also a very important statement to make. 
MARGARET
WARNER: Yet in the Middle East -- I mean in Asia, professor, you did
have economic development, say in China or in South Korea, the way it
was then under still autocratic regimes. Are the two absolutely incompatible?
MURHAF
JOUEJATI: This is a fantastic admission of failure of the West in general,
and the United States in particular, which has been supporting autocratic
despotic regimes for the past 50 years. I hope this is a new course
that the United States will be set on by President Bush; a course in
which the United States will no longer support autocratic and despotic
regimes. Now the message is very good. However, I think many Arabs would
be skeptical as to the messenger because here we must not forget and
we must not take away from the equation the presence of the Arab-Israeli
conflict and the role of the United States in the Arab-Israeli conflict,
and the blind support the U.S. has given to Israel. And so here many
Arabs would be skeptical. They do not want to hear words alone. They
want to see deeds. 
EDMUND
GHAREEB: Well, this is very interesting actually, when we look at this
because the date was very interesting to me. I mean he said 60 years
ago. Why 60 years ago? What happened 60 years ago? Was he perhaps referring
to a meeting between President Roosevelt and the Saudi king? Is this
a sign also to the Saudis perhaps? 
MURHAF
JOUEJATI: It's good that you use the word "pressure," because
here again we have to be very, very careful with the use of pressure.
What the use of U.S. pressure is doing, unwittingly I think, is uniting
states and society and that is counterproductive to the cause of democratization.
EDMUND
GHAREEB: I think to a certain extent I agree with that. The United States
needs to encourage, I think, but how do you encourage? You encourage,
in part, by example. You encourage, in part, by also the behavior, the
practice and the policies that you pursue in the region. That's the
best message to send to the people in the area. That's one of the questions
because now today I was talking to some people in the area, and we were
talking actually about the speech, and some of them said, "well,
who is the target?" And two people actually said that. 
MURHAF
JOUEJATI: I found mixed reactions. And these are not "this category
of people think this" and "this category of people think that."
But it is the same people who have mixed reactions. On the one hand,
they are very happy to hear about democracy and freedom and this coming
from a United States that has supported autocratic regimes. But, on
the other hand, again, they are skeptical. Is this the democratic U.S.
that we are hearing that at the same time is biased towards Israel and
even arming it in its brutality against the Palestinian people? So here
they are open to this message of freedom, yet extremely skeptical, and
they need to see things on the ground rather than simply to hear words.
EDMUND
GHAREEB: I think this was perhaps, I'm not so sure that the president
believes it, but I think there is no doubt that this is more of a utopian
kind of vision because of the complexities of the region, because of
the questions, the skepticism about the messenger, about the purposes
behind this speech, because also we have to remember that people, in
part, some of the people dislike the United States policies and they
dislike the United States because they see their governments are supporting
governments that are oppressive, authoritarian. At the same time, there
are people who don't like their governments because they see their governments
kowtowing to the United States. This is one of the basic challenges
the United States is going to face is how to try to communicate to the
people in the region and try to change their attitudes. 
