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| SENATE REACTION | |
 December 16, 1998 
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Jim Lehrer discusses the president's order for military strikes against Iraq with Senate Armed Services Committee members Joe Lieberman (D-CT) and John Warner (R-VA).
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JIM LEHRER: Now to two key United States senators: John Warner, Republican of Virginia and Joe Lieberman, Democrat of Connecticut. Both are members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Senator Warner is not here yet. We expect him to join us in a moment. Senator Lieberman is. JIM LEHRER: Do you support this action, Senator? |
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Senate support. |
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JIM LEHRER: Are you the least bit suspicious about the timing - the night before the debate in the House on impeachment was to begin? SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: The timing is disconcertingly awkward, but let's remember that the timing is not the president's doing. The timing is the result of the report of Chairman Butler of UNSCOM, who's an Australian and has nothing to do with the administration. The president and the administration could not have been clearer, in a briefing that was given to members of the Senate about three weeks ago, that when Chairman Butler reports back, if he says that the Iraqis are not cooperating, we must strike, so awkward but not the president's doing. JIM LEHRER: So you were told three weeks ago that the minute that report comes and if that report is negative, there was going to be bombing? SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Indeed. JIM LEHRER: You didn't have to have a further briefing to know this was going to happen. SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Jim, I would have been surprised - and frankly upset - if the president -acting as commander-in-chief - did not order the military strike he ordered today. The fact is that I can't imagine any president who served in my lifetime who would not have ordered the strike were he sitting in the Oval Office right now. So, again, the timing is awkward, but the timing is the result of the actions of Saddam Hussein, the Iraqis, and the decision of the Australian chairman of the United Nations Commission. JIM LEHRER: Let me read to you what Sen. Trent Lott, who's a Senator from Mississippi, and the Senate Majority Leader, he issued a statement earlier this evening in which he said, "While I have been assured by administration officials that there is no connection with the impeachment process in the House of Representatives, I cannot support this military action in the Persian Gulf at this time. Both the timing and the policy are subject to question." SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Well, I have tremendous respect for Trent Lott. I go beyond respect; he's my friend. I was disappointed with that statement. And, again, we were all told quite clearly that this would happen. JIM LEHRER: Was Sen. Lott at that briefing? |
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| Question of timing. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: He was. And I must say that if there has been any criticism from members of the Senate about this administration's Iraqi policy, it's been twofold: The first is that it has not focused on the overthrow of the regime, on the conclusion that so long as Saddam is in control of Iraq, there will not be security for us, for our allies, for the world. Let's make that our goal. And I've been proud to co-sponsor with Sen. Lott the Iraqi Liberation Act, which the administration signed and has now said that it would support. The president echoed that again tonight. The second criticism that was made of the administration was that it did not go forward with the attack on November 14th, so that no one was urging - that I heard of - hesitation or caution. The fact is that the president just showed a lot of restraint here. This is one of those cases of slow to anger, but eventually you got to - if you want to maintain your credibility, when people thumb their nose, as Saddam has at the United Nations and the United States, you've got to take action.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Well, I leave that - I leave that to the leadership of the House, but it is important one way or another that we make clear again to our friends and foes alike around the world that when American military personnel are in harm's way, there are no Democrats and no Republicans. We're all Americans; we all support them. I do take heart from one sentence in Sen. Lott's statement in which he said, "If, however, military action is taken, all Americans will fully support our troops in battle." We've now come to that point, and I hope we'll find a way to do that. JIM LEHRER: Now, the specifics of what the United States is trying to accomplish here, what is your understanding of the nature of the attack, and what its specific mission is? SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: My understanding in generalities, because I don't think it's appropriate for me to go into specifics - JIM LEHRER: Sure. |
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| "Substantial attack." | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: So not targets where there may be a weapons factory or some kind of facility that's involved in chemical or biological weapons. It could be more general than that, like say the Republican Guards, his mainstay military group. SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Well, again, I'd leave it to the folks at the Pentagon and the administration to offer any details they want, but I guess I'd say that I certainly hope its more general than the primary target, but the primary targets are the facilities at which weapons of mass destruction are being built. JIM LEHRER: You mentioned a moment ago the Iraqi Liberation Act that you were involved in and the president mentioned that effort as well - SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Yes.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Well, it's just - I mean, I think the important thing to say - let me go back - two years ago Sen. Lott and a few others - I believe Sen. Bob Kerrey and I co-sponsored the first phase of this, which was $5 million to bring together the Iraqi opposition to Saddam -- $5 million to begin Radio Free Iraq - a strategy that worked so well during the Cold War. Radio Free Iraq is up and running just recently. The opposition has begun to come together. This year's version - almost $100 million - was to allow a draw-down of American military equipment to be used to train and equip Iraqi opposition to Saddam. Frankly, that's not moved quickly, not as quickly as I would like, I know not as quickly as Sen. Lott would like. But the important thing that's happened in the last couple of months is that the president, the vice president, and most recently National Security Adviser Sandy Berger - in a very powerful statement at Stanford University - made clear that the goal of American foreign policy in Iraq now is not just to contain Saddam but to change the regime to bring to power a regime that we can work with. JIM LEHRER: So this military attack should have that as one of its goals as well, right, to destabilize him as well as to eliminate possible manufacture of weapons of mass destruction? SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: My guess is that the targets really are weapons of mass destruction. Secondarily, this series of attacks may have the effect of weakening the military backbone of this regime. I don't have any expectation - I don't anybody in the administration does - that this attack - though substantial it may be - will end Saddam Hussein's rule. That's a longer process, which will involve the kind of cooperation and support we are now beginning to give to the considerable elements within Iraq who are opposed to this tyrant's rule. JIM LEHRER: Let me ask you to play - I guess the word is pundit here for a moment, Senator. You've been in the world of public opinion and dealing with the public reactions to things for years. How do you think the public is going to accept this? Is this going to be a problem for the president as a "Wag the Dog" kind of scenario, or do you think they're going to buy what he just said? |
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| Presidential motives? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Well, I don't know. I hope they buy what he said, because though this crisis in his own regime is going on with an impeachment vote set very soon, perhaps tomorrow in the House of Representatives, he remains our commander-in-chief, and I think it should be clear to everyone looking at this that he had a pressing responsibility to do exactly what he did tonight as our commander-in-chief. Honestly, if he did not, I think that he would have been derelict in his duties. JIM LEHRER: Senator Warner, how are you, sir? Well, I don't hear you. You hear me, obviously. The lip readers among us are going to - now, there, Senator. SEN. JOHN WARNER: Your question is: How am I? JIM LEHRER: How are you? No, no. Now I know how well you are, I just couldn't hear you. Senator, do you support what the president did? SEN. JOHN WARNER: I think that it's imperative that our nation - together with Great Britain and our other allies - join together to enforce the rule of law. This has been a continuing pattern of breaking that rule of law by Saddam Hussein and he's had all the warning plus that was needed. The president and others made it very clear some weeks ago when they stopped the first strike that this would come, and while the timing is something that will have to be examined, it's a question, of course, of the timing. The president has spoken to that, but that'll be an open issue. But at the moment we've got to keep in sight the welfare of the men and women of the armed forces. I just talked to the Pentagon, and several hundred missiles have landed. And naval aircraft, hopefully, are all returning safely to the carrier. JIM LEHRER: And what have they told you about the success thus far? SEN. JOHN WARNER: I'll be returning to the building, the Pentagon, tonight as those reports come in. It is far too early to determine exactly what occurred. JIM LEHRER: Can you give us a feel - in a general way - I know you don't want to be to specific about it - in a general way the kinds of targets that these missiles and these bombers are going for.
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| Series of strikes. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: Is it your understanding, Senator, that this is going to go on for several days? SEN. JOHN WARNER: That is my clear understanding. JIM LEHRER: I mean -- SEN. JOHN WARNER: Go ahead. That's fine. JIM LEHRER: In other words, it isn't going to be just one shot tonight? SEN. JOHN WARNER: No. JIM LEHRER: It's going to be more tomorrow, more the next day for how long? SEN. JOHN WARNER: This has been a carefully thought through military operation. I meant with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs this week, as I said, also the Secretary of Defense. The plans have been in place for sometime; the assets have been in place; and Saddam Hussein knew that at the time that he threw out the UNSCOM people. SEN. JOHN WARNER: Of course, Senator Lott is correct, you do have to put in question the timing, but tonight and tomorrow night and, if necessary on successive nights, you've got to have foremost in mind the men and women of the armed forces and their safety - not only the United States but Great Britain, another nation that is bravely participating. JIM LEHRER: Well, let me ask you this question directly. You said you've been in contact with - very close contact with the military leaders of the administration in the last 24 hours and even before. SEN. JOHN WARNER: Right. JIM LEHRER: Did you detect any desire on their part to get this thing done now tonight on the eve of the impeachment vote and debate in the House of Representatives? SEN. JOHN WARNER: The question of timing did not come up in my discussions, except today when I went over. The military made it very clear - as did the Secretary of Defense - this is a job that had to be done if there was clear and convincing proof - and here it is right here - in the Butler report - that the rule all law was being violated and the credibility of the United States and our principal allies being put in question by Saddam Hussein. JIM LEHRER: Do you personally - John Warner - somebody who's been around and involved in these kinds of issues - politically and otherwise - for years, do you have any suspicions about the timing? |
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| Focusing on the matter at hand. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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SEN. JOHN WARNER: I'm careful not to let those issues come into my thinking at this time. As I said, tonight, foremost in my mind, is the safety of those of our troops and our allies that are performing in a brave way these tough missions. JIM LEHRER: Do you think -
JIM LEHRER: Do you think the House should go ahead with its debate and vote tomorrow? SEN. JOHN WARNER: I'm been very careful throughout these impeachment proceedings to leave those decisions to the leadership of the House of Representatives. JIM LEHRER: I know you're going to leave the decision to them, but do think while all of this is going on in the Gulf, while there is a military action underway, that the House of Representatives should be publicly debating impeaching the president? SEN. JOHN WARNER: My understanding is that the House leadership has spoken to that issue, and I'm sure you have the benefit of their remarks. JIM LEHRER: We have - there's been no official announcement of any kind at this point. That's the reason I was asking. SEN. JOHN WARNER: Bear in mind that we've only know about the finality of this - well, I perhaps knew some hours ago - others were awaiting the announcement of the President of the United States. JIM LEHRER: All right. Well, Senator Warner, thank you very much for being with us, and Senator Lieberman, thanks to you as well. SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Jim. |
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SEN.
JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: I do absolutely. Jim. I thought the president's statement
was strong and correct on all points. The truth is that if people had
been listening to what the president said when he stopped the attack
that he had ordered on November 14th, just about a month ago, after
the Iraqis finally promised once again to do what we had been asking
them to do, he made it very clear, both publicly and in briefings with
members of the Senate and the House, I presume, that if Chairman Butler
of UNSCOM indicated to the United Nations and to us that the Iraqis
were once again frustrating the inspections that were necessary to prove
that they were keeping the promise they made at the end of the Gulf
War to end the Gulf War, which was to disarm weapons of mass destruction,
that we would strike without delay, without warning, and that is exactly
what we have done. And that is not only important in terms of Iraq but
it is important in terms of American credibility -- the trust that the
world has -- both our friends and foes alike - when we say what we're
going to do if something happens. 
JIM
LEHRER: Now, back to the politics of this - one more question on the
politics of this. We're awaiting word on whether or not the House is,
in fact, going to proceed tomorrow anyhow with its debate and vote on
impeachment. Do you think it should under the circumstances? 
SEN.
JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: -- is that it will be a substantial attack. Previous
administration attacks after the Iraqi attempt to assassinate President
Bush in '93, after the Iraqi move against the Kurds in the North, criticisms
have been that these were pin-prick attacks. This will not be a pin-prick
attack. This will be a substantial attack that is aimed primarily at
essentially accomplishing what the inspections were supposed to accomplish,
which is to diminish the capacity of the Iraqis to build weapons of
mass destruction and the delivery systems, ballistic missiles, to use
them to attack secondarily. And this goes directly to the point that
Sen. Lott made. It's my impression that this attack will be at military
targets, and, in that sense, may I hope begin to weaken Saddam Hussein's
regime. 
JIM
LEHRER: -- in his remarks just now. Is that working? 
JIM
LEHRER: Sen. Warner, I understand, has now joined us. Senator - well,
they're still putting - Senator, do you hear me? Well, not quite. Yes.
We'll get - the audience will get to watch Sen. Warner get a thing stuck
in his ear. 
SEN.
JOHN WARNER: Well, you can assume that this is going to be a very serious
strike. I've had the opportunity for two meetings - extensive meetings
with Secretary Cohen in the last 24 hours, and those of us who feel
that now if we're going to do it and we're doing it, you have to carry
it right straight through so that we do achieve the goals that we've
set out that have been made clear, indeed, by my leader here - Senator
Lott has continuously said if we start something, we've got to carry
it through to success, and the first targeting, obviously, had to be
put in place to protect the second and third military attacks, and,
if necessary, a fourth, and to protect those airplanes that will be
involved.
JIM
LEHRER: You mentioned Senator Lott. I've just been discussing with Senator
Lieberman here Senator Lott's statement in which he said, among other
things, "I cannot support this military action in the Persian Gulf at
this time. Both the timing and the policy are subject to question."
SEN.
JOHN WARNER: There will be time in the future - and it's an important
issue as pointed out by Sen. Lott - to address them in a timely fashion.