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 | TURKISH "SEA CHANGE"
SEPTEMBER 24, 1996TRANSCRIPT |
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Turkey's foreign minister, Tansu Ciller, discusses the Kurdish crisis, and her country's oft misunderstood role in Middle East power politics with Charlayne Hunter-Gault.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Turkey occupies several important crossroads in the world between Europe
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September 10, 1996
NewsHour segment on the Kurdish people.
Online Forum on the plight of the Kurds in Northern Iraq.
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and the Middle East and Central Asia. That's why it's been important to the American government since World War II, even though it's rarely in the headlines or on the public mind. Turkey is a predominantly Muslim country but one with an 80-year old secular tradition. In June, a coalition dominated by Muslim fundamentalists, headed by Premier Necmettin Erbakan, came to power.
Since then, the U.S. has expressed concern that this NATO ally has embarked on its own course, changing its views about Iraq and other issues of strategic importance to the United States. U.N. Ambassador Madeleine Albright stressed Turkey's importance in a NewsHour interview after visiting the new prime minister.
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I think that we will have to see how now that he is a responsible leader, rather than an opposition leader, how he assesses what our various relationships are and the proof of it will be in his deeds.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Turkey was a member of the coalition against Iraq during the Gulf War in 1990 and ‘91. But last month, when Saddam Hussein's army crushed a Kurdish group in the North, Turkey refused to join the American military response. It also wouldn't allow American planes based in Turkey to attack Iraqi targets. It has, however, continued to participate in enforcing the allied no-fly zone in Northern Iraq, established to protect the Kurds in the wake of the Gulf War. Turkey's support of the economic sanctions against Iraq has cost it billions of dollars in oil pipeline revenue. Saying it needed the money, Turkey recently made a natural gas deal with Iran.
The new Turkish prime minister Erbakan has worked to improve relations with other Islamic states as well, while insisting Turkey remains a part of the western alliance. Like Iraq, Turkey has a large and sometimes troublesome Kurdish minority. The Turkish government argues that a Turkish Kurdish element called the PKK is a terrorist organization which has attacked Turkey from sanctuaries in Northern Iraq. The critical issue for the U.S. is whether Turkey is supporting Iraq's effort to secure further control over Northern Iraq, thereby helping to crush the PKK.
Over the weekend, Ciller was quoted in the “New York Times” as supporting Saddam Hussein's activity in Northern Iraq. But yesterday, she told reporters and Secretary of State Christopher that she had been misquoted and that Turkish policy had not changed.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Now to Foreign Minister Tansu Ciller. She also holds the position of deputy prime minister in the coalition government. She joins us from New York. And, Ms. Foreign Minister, welcome.
TANSU CILLER, Foreign Minister, Turkey: Hello.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Why would Turkey allow the U.S. to use its bases to attack Iraq last month?
TANSU CILLER: Well, because the United States never asked us to, to be a help, an assistance to them within that regard. The United States had asked us to do four things, and we delivered immediately.
The first thing was that they wanted assistance in the evacuation of U.S. civil personnel, government officials that is to say, and we did give--provide the assistance for that evacuation. And then they asked us to assist them in the evacuation of the U.S. citizens living in Northern Iraq, which we did promptly, and then we were asked to expand and increase the number of flights--provide comfort from Turkey--and that we delivered as well, and then finally, fourthly, we were asked to assist in the evacuation of the Kurdish people, 2500 of them, who were working for the U.S. government and for their families.
And for humanitarian reasons we did that as well. What I am trying to say is that Turkey has been an ally of the United States for a long time in Korea. And then in the Cold War, we had a border with Russia, and we were there in the first Gulf crisis we were there, and in the second Gulf crisis we're also there.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: So the issue of the U.S. planes taking off from bases in Turkey to fly to Northern Iraq. Are you saying that never came up?
TANSU CILLER: That never came up because the United States never asked us to provide that kind of assistance.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: But your government did oppose the air strike on Baghdad, did it not--I mean, on the Northern part of Iraq, did it not?
TANSU CILLER:
Well, what we--we were never asked whether the United States should be bombing North Iraq, but our concern was the following. We have a neighborhood. That neighborhood is Syria and Iran and Iraq, and North of us is Russia, and West of us Greece, and each time a crisis occurs, everybody goes back home and forgets about it, but we are left with the neighborhood. And it has cost us $27 billion during the last five years, and our allies don't turn around and recognize the need for that compensation.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: So you think you should have been asked by the United States?
TANSU CILLER: Absolutely. We feel that some sort of a compensation should be provided by all of our allies.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: No. I mean a conversation. You think you should have been--excuse me--you should have been asked whether or--
TANSU CILLER: Asked to do what?
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Whether the United--you should have been--you should have been consulted about the bombing of Iraq, is that what you're saying?
TANSU CILLER: No, no, this is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that we should have been provided some sort of a compensation for our economic losses which has cost us economically up to about $30 billion--together with the potential for becoming a distribution of petroleum within that area because we have connections with Iraq, and 25 million tons are being consumed on a yearly basis in terms of petroleum in Turkey, but our pipeline that we built in Turkey between Iraq and Turkey provide three times that consumption that Turkey has, which means we would have been distributors of petroleum now to the western world, which would help us integrate with Iraq even further.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: So what are you saying, that the United States should not have done
anything that jeopardized the resumption of the, umm, oil--the limited amount of oil that the Iraqis were going to be able to, um, to sell if this hadn't happened?
TANSU CILLER: I am being very open, and I will say it again. When Saddam decided he would send his troops--I was the first one--my country was the first one to say that he should withdraw immediately. We, uh, respect the United Nations resolutions, however, we need to be compensated for our losses.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: There's been some confusion here about your country's views on Iraq's presence in the North. You were quoted earlier as saying that if Saddam wanted to impose his central authority in the North, it would be all right with Turkey, and later, it was reported that you had not said that. Could you clarify that for us.
TANSU CILLER: Yes, of course. What our position is, and we have been discussing this with all our neighbors, is that first of all, we need a buffer area, security zone, right next to our borders because the
PKK has settled down right next to our borders, and they are trying to infiltrate through our borders and kill innocent people. On a daily basis, three of our soldiers are being killed in the attempt to try to protect our borders, so we need a security area right next to our borders. We're not going to conquer Iraq. We respect the territorial integrity of Iraq. We respect the sovereignty of Iraq, but we need to provide stability and security to our borders, which we are determined to do. Secondly--
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: So it's all right if Iraq stays--would stay there in Turkey's eyes, would stay in the Northern section of the country?
TANSU CILLER: No. We want stability in the sense that the PKK should evacuate that. And how are we going to do that? We can do this on our own, not because we want to do--conquer Iraq but because we need the PKK to be removed away from that, and there is the lack of authority there, and that authority can be provided as we were discussing with Secretary Christopher today--I mean, yesterday--in the sense that there are the two commands there speaking Turkish who happen to be Turks, very much educated in the secular group of civilian people in Northern Iraq, they amount to about 700,000 people, and that's South Irbil, where Saddam Hussein's forces entered--there are about 3 ½ million Turkamans.
We feel that we can bring them together and, and they should be brought together with the Kurdish people, including the Barzani people, to try to protect each other and form some sort of local administration if that is necessary in that form of cooperation. That might fill the vacuum of authority in Northern Iraq, which is badly needed. It has become a no-man's land as far as Northern Iraq is concerned.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Does Turkey think it's now time to normalize relations with Iraq, that Turkey should normalize relations with Iraq now?
TANSU CILLER: We want peace and stability in the area, and the way we can provide it right now, as I have talked to Barzani last Monday, and as I have talked to Secretary Christopher on Monday, it's to bring the Turkamans and the Kurdish elements together in some sort of a cooperation there, whereby this cooperation will stop the influx of refugees into Turkey. This will provide the authority that is needed there, as well, if they can work together.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Is Turkey being driven to be more hospitable to governments in the area, umm, because--especially Iraq because of the oil revenue it's losing, uh, that you just mentioned a few moments ago, or is it more because of the prime minister's reported desire to bring all Islamic nations together in a kind of Islamic NATO?
TANSU CILLER: Well, you have to recognize that Mr. Erbakan has become partner of other governments prior to this government, and they formed the coalition with Mr. Bulent Ecevit, who was the former prime minister, and the head of, uh, a leftist party, and also with Mr. Demerel. He formed a coalition. So this is not the first time. The people of Turkey have made up their minds, they are very pro-western, and are dedicated to democratization and human rights, and we're moving in the right direction. We've always done that, no matter what, and we have the--we have been protecting European borders in the Cold War, and we are a dedicated member of NATO.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: All right.
TANSU CILLER: It is true that I formed the coalition with Mr. Erbakan, but you have to recognize that this is a new kind of thing for Turkey in the sense that we have adopted and accepted the rotating prime ministerial system--
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: All right.
TANSU CILLER: --whereby in the first two years, Mr. Erbakan will be the prime minister to be followed by me in the second, uh, two years, uh, to, to follow the first two years.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: All right. Well, I'm sorry--
TANSU CILLER: And we are co-signers in everything. A new rule, a new act has come up from the parliament.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: All right.
CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: All right. Foreign Minister, thank you very much for joining us.
TANSU CILLER: Thank you.
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