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| RELIGION AND THE GOP | |
 February 29, 2000 
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Following this background report, Jim Lehrer leads a discussion with Republican strategists from both the Bush and McCain campaigns and conservative spokesmen over religion in the Republican presidential race. |
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SPENCER MICHELS: Texas Governor George Bush has frequently introduced religion into speeches and debates by mentioning that he's a born-again Christian. He talked about it at a debate in Iowa last December.
SPENCER MICHELS: In the New Hampshire primary Bush lost to Senator McCain. In Bush's first stop in South Carolina, the site of the next primary, was at Bob Jones University, a school grounded in biblical doctrine. Nearly every Republican presidential candidate since Ronald Reagan has spoken there. SPOKESMAN: How can I communicate God's message rather than my message? SPENCER MICHELS: Bob Jones University was founded in 1927 by a segregationist who believed that born-again Christian students needed a refuge from the outside world. Even the school's Web site acknowledges that if there are those who wish to charge us with being anti-Catholicism, we plead guilty but we are not Catholic haters. Bush won South Carolina overwhelmingly, but is appeal to the religious right there haunted him in the next primary. McCain's campaign made phone calls to Catholic voters attacking Bush's appearance at Bob Jones. SPOKESMAN: This is a Catholic voter alert. Bob Jones has made strong anti-Catholic statements, including calling the Pope the "antichrist" and the Catholic Church a "satanic cult." John McCain, a pro-life Senator, has strongly criticized this anti-Catholic bigotry, while Governor Bush has stayed silent, while gaining the support of Bob Jones. SPENCER MICHELS: In Michigan, Bush got help from evangelist Pat Robertson in getting religious voters to the polls.
SPENCER MICHELS: But Bush lost the Michigan primary overwhelmingly among all voters. And over the weekend he wrote a letter to Cardinal John O'Connor of New York saying he had erred by not separating himself from the University's positions. At a news conference Monday he attacked the Arizona senator, who has called himself a proud Reagan Republican. GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH: First of all, Senator McCain is running a stealth campaign, saying one thing and doing another. He's playing the religious card. That's not Reaganesque. SPENCER MICHELS: McCain fired back while campaigning in Virginia, attacking two stalwarts of the Christian right.
SPENCER MICHELS: Today, while campaigning in Stockton, California, McCain continued to bring up the issue. SEN. JOHN McCAIN: The overwhelming numbers of people in the Christian right - we want them back; we want them to join us. But they have to reject those leaders that are on extremes that have caused frankly a very harmful impact on not only the American people but our party. SPENCER MICHELS: As voters in Virginia and Washington State went to the polls today, Bush held a news conference in Ohio. GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH: I don't appreciate the politics that still goes on out of Senator McCain, the politics of saying I'm going to run a campaign to tell the truth when, in fact, this is a man who yesterday authorized calls in this commonwealth of Virginia, calling me an anti-Catholic bigot. That kind of politics needs to be set aside. It's the kind of politics that continues to persist today because of Senator McCain. SPENCER MICHELS: And Bush once again said today he regretted not speaking out against anti-Catholic violence when he had the might of Bob Jones University. |
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| Anti-Catholic themes and the Bob Jones doctrine | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: Four perspectives now on this fight within the Republican Party: Haley Barbour, a Bush supporter, is the former chairman of the Republican National Committee; New York Congressman Peter King was a Bush supporter but he is now endorsing McCain; Marvin Olasky is a Bush adviser and he's a professor of journalism at the University of Texas and editor of the Conservative World Magazine; David Brooks is a senior editor at the Weekly Standard, another conservative magazine, but one that has not endorsed either of the Republican candidates. Mr. Barbour, what's going on?
JIM LEHRER: It's Senator McCain's fault exclusively that religion has come into this campaign? HALEY BARBOUR: Religion is in all sorts of campaigns. I mean, there are all sorts of people in - religious people - most of the Catholic Republican members of the Congress in the Senate and the governors, and that very many of them - the overwhelming majority of them are for George Bush. But it is the first time we've seen something like the Catholic voter alert, which was condemned by Cardinal Meda- the archbishop of Milwaukee - after it happened, because nobody knew it was happening, or it would have been condemned beforehand. But I feel comfortable about where we're going to end up, and I think Peter's a prime example. I think Peter King will tell you, George Bush is not anti-Catholic, is he, Peter? JIM LEHRER: But, Peter King, how would you describe what's going on? We'll ask you whether or not... then you can answer Mr. Barbour's question. What do you think is going on here first? REP. PETER KING: First of all, George Bush is not anti-Catholic. Nobody
suggested he was. What we did say was he was willing to work with people
who have an anti-Catholic bigotry to get votes in South Carolina. That's
clearly what happened. Now, as to where this is going, I think that
Senator McCain had an obligation to raise this issue, to show that Governor
Bush in South Carolina was willing to work with people who are anti-Catholics.
It's as simple as. That nothing wrong with that phone call that was
made in Michigan. It was on target. It never said George Bush was anti-Catholic.
What it did say is he was willing to tolerate anti-Catholics. JIM LEHRER: What about that, Mr. Barbour, the Robertson-Falwell statement from Senator McCain - and follow up now about what Peter King just said. HALEY BARBOUR: Senator McCain yesterday attacked Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. The day before he attacked Governor Jim Gilmore and Senator John Warner. You look at the two together, and I can't come to any conclusion except that he's decided that he can't win the nomination with Republican votes, but maybe in Virginia he can incite enough Democrats in Northern Virginia to come out and vote for him in the Republican primary. I do think the important thing that Peter said is that everybody knows George Bush is not anti-Catholic, and the idea that because he went to Bob Jones University and therefore he's condoning stuff... you know, Lindsay Graham, who was John McCain's campaign manager and stood at his elbow step through the South Carolina campaign, just got an honorary degree from Bob Jones university. Lindsay Graham's not anti-catholic. Lindsay Graham is a great guy. But that's the inference that Peter would have you believe, because Lindsay Graham took an honorary degree from Bob Jones University he's associating with anti-Catholics, tolerating them? JIM LEHRER: What about that, Congressman?
JIM LEHRER: Mr. Barbour, if everything was okay on Governor Bush's going to Bob Jones University, why did he then apologize?
JIM LEHRER: So you don't think the governor should have apologized? HALEY BARBOUR: No. I think what the governor did was to say I recognize because a big stink was made after the fact that something was an issue I wasn't aware of before hand. And I wish I had been aware beforehand because I should have said something. And I think Bush is doing the right thing to make very plain to his friends who know he's not anti-Catholic that he sees in retrospect that this could be something that gives people a misperception about him. |
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| Religious right and the Republican party | ||||||||||||||||||||
| JIM LEHRER: All right. Now to Marvin Olasky
and David Brooks. David Brooks, you heard what Congressman King just said,
that this was healthy for the Republican Party. Do you agree?
JIM LEHRER: A seismic event, Mr. Olasky?
JIM LEHRER: Well, what about David Brooks' point that like it or not, John McCain is challenging the whole premise of this and saying, "hey, wait a minute. There's another way to go?" MARVIN OLASKY: Well, he's not really challenging the whole premise of it. He is trying to get political advantage here right now in a way that distracts us from the main issues. You know, it's important to looks at questions of interracial dating, but it's actually more important to look at questions of what happens to these kids growing up in inner cities, that compassionate conservatism is designed to help. That's what Governor Bush wanted to do. This whole campaign has gotten away from that. And we're dealing with issues that divide us instead of dealing with ways to go from the successes of welfare reform to the second stage of really helping poor people in inner cities. JIM LEHRER: What about that point, David Brooks, this may be an important debate, but it isn't what it ought to be about? DAVID BROOKS: On policy grounds, you know, this campaign is sometimes
depicted as if it's Chez Guevara versus Francisco Franco, but they're
both moderate conservatives. On most issues they are together. One area
they different on is how they talk about public morality. Bush is a
sincere Christian, we saw that in the clip - he talks that way. But
when you talk to McCain about public morality, even about impeachment
and the Clinton scandal, he talks as a patriot; he talks in a secular
language. |
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| Searching for a November win | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: You think the party can come together after all of this? Let me ask you another question. Why is religion still such a volatile subsequent like this? It's just exploded suddenly because of George Bush's going to make a speech at that South Carolina University. DAVID BROOKS: Well, I think it's always... America's a religious country. But I think one of the thing Bob Jones signifies, the potential that Bob Jones is the Willie Horton of the Republican Party. Just as Willie Horton symbolizes the excess of liberalism, Bob Jones symbolizes conservative growing out of step with American culture. And this became an issue because up until now no candidate was willing to challenge the religious right - the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells. But two things have happened. One, John McCain came along, who happens to be a challenging sort of guy. Second, religious conservatives have grown less powerful and certainly less organized this time than they were four years ago or eight years ago.
MARVIN OLASKY: Well, I see that as an opportunity to try to develop a dialogue here on these issues. But we're not seeing that. We're seeing a lot of ridicule of those folks. I find it interesting listening to David. A couple weeks ago I wrote a column in the Austin American Statesman explaining exactly what David is now coming to, that, in fact, this is a battle between folks who emphasize the biblical virtues of faith, hope and charity, and others who are very uncomfortable with any mention of Christ and so find in Senator McCain a person of great biography and valor who emphasizes some of the classical virtues of courage and bravery and discipline and fortitude. Those are very good virtues, too. But there's a real difference here. I wrote a column, and rather than deal with that, David Brooks and others have decided to ridicule that. I started out writing about... Starting with Tom Wolfe who wrote in A Man in Full about the religion of Zeus. And I played off that into looking at the difference between Christian and classical virtues. Instead of dealing with the substance, David has a column in this week's Newsweek that just ridicules that whole notion. And this is exactly what a lot of Christian conservatives object to. These folks are not poor and stupid and easily led and ignorant. These are folks who are intelligent but instead of being willing to enter into a dialogue on some of these very basic issues of what our lives are all about, what's the purpose of our prosperity and so forth, they are just met with attacks and ridicule. It's an attempt to close off debate, and it's not something that's going to be successful either for the Republican Party or for the country as a whole. JIM LEHRER: Haley Barbour, is this kind of thing we're talking about tonight healthy for your party? HALEY BARBOUR: I think in some ways it's not. However, I don't think it's going to be a big problem come November. People asked me if I think our party will be divided because of this primary or because of disagreements. Albert Gore will unite the Republican Party. When Republicans look at do we want four more years of Clinton/Gore, there will be unity like you never saw, Jim. JIM LEHRER: But do you agree with David Brooks that this was... what was the term you used to describe this?
JIM LEHRER: A seismic event. HALEY BARBOUR: I think when Republicans personally attack other Republicans that that's bad. When people disagree on the issues and talk about why they disagree, I think that's healthy. I think these huge turnouts are healthy. But I think when people say, this person's an agent of intolerance - and even though every McCain says - and every McCain person says they know George Bush is not anti-Catholic -- who are you kidding when you try to act that phone call wasn't to make the voter think George Bush is anti-Catholic. JIM LEHRER: Peter King.
JIM LEHRER: We'll leave it there. Thank you all four very much. |
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GOV.
GEORGE W. BUSH: When you turn your heart and your life over to Christ,
when you accept Christ as your Savior, it changes you heart and changes
your life. And that's what happened to me.
PAT
ROBERTSON: I urge you to go to the polls and vote in tomorrow's election.
This is Pat Robertson. Thank you and God bless you.
SEN.
JOHN McCAIN: Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer
reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether
they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson
or Jerry Falwell on the right.
HALEY
BARBOUR: I think Senator McCain has seen some states that he's had a
hard time getting Republicans to vote for him, and it's made him the
first candidate in remembrance who has attacked Republicans in the Republican
primary in order - in Virginia to try to get Democrats to cross over
and vote in a Republican primary for our nominee. And I do think it's
as simple as that.
And
I think that this is a very healthy debate within the Republican Party.
I also think that Senator McCain is raising very valid issues about
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, and there are many people in the Republican
Party who, and myself -- I usually get 100 percent rating in the Christian
Coalition. But I am offended when I see someone like Pat Robertson constantly
using the religious veneer and putting that around issues that really
have no religious connotation at all. 
REP.
PETER KING: Well, first of all, I had nothing to gain from this. I was
supporting Governor Bush until he went to Bob Jones University. It would
have been a lot easier for me if he hadn't gone there, but as a Catholic,
I was offended because I know what Bob Jones stands for. They gave an
honorary degree to Ian Paisley, the most vicious bigot in Northern Ireland.
They advertise his books on their Web site. Each of the presidents of
Bob Jones University has continued to make anti-Catholic statements.
That wasn't a campaign stop by Governor Bush. That's the way he keynoted
and kicked off his campaign in South Carolina. He was sending a signal.
And I did interpret that as being a signal he was willing to take the
votes of that part of the Christian right which is anti-Catholic to
get through in South Carolina. And I found that offensive. I still find
that offensive. I'm thankful that he did finally sent a letter to Cardinal
O'Connor. But I wish he hadn't waited three weeks, I wish he hadn't
waited until he was out of South Carolina and was on the eve of the
New York primary which has almost 50 percent Catholics voting in the
Republican primary. By and the way, as far as getting votes of Democrats
and independents, the New York primary is solely going to be among Republicans.
I think Senator McCain is going to do very well in New York. 
DAVID
BROOKS: It's great. For 20 years this Republican Party has been a marriage
- since Ronald Reagan - of two things: tax-cutting economic conservatives
and the religious social conservatives. John McCain is saying that coalition
is dead. He's not a big tax cutter, and he just attacked Pat Robertson
and Jerry Falwell, the two leaders of religious conservatism. He's saying
that coalition will not lead us to victory anymore. We learned that
in impeachment. We've learned it over the past few years of defeat,
and he's got this new coalition which he thinks will lead it, which
is a conservative reform coalition, sort of a thinking man's Ross Perot,
and a patriotic conservatism, which issue sort of a political Colin
Powell. So he's got an entirely new coalition for the Republican Party.
He says he's remaking the Republican Party, and this speech is the logical
and really breathtakingly daring attempt to do that. So as an observer,
it's just been great the watch and really potentially a seismic event.
MARVIN
OLASKY: Well, the old coalition is dead only if people stab it and then
dance on the corpse. Actually, the... all through American history it's
been the combination of libertarians and religious conservatives that
have compelled a lot of the most important political changes we've had.
For example, the revolution back 200 plus years ago, Benjamin Franklin
and Thomas Jefferson are folks today we would call libertarians. Franklin
really hated Pennsylvania Presbyterians. He despised them. These were
the members of the religious right at this point. But he worked with
them. He decided to bring them into the coalition. On the other side,
you had people like Patrick Henry and Samuel Adams, who were very strong
Christians. Today we would call them members of the religious right.
They were willing to work with Franklin and Jefferson in order to topple
the big government British at that time. This coalition has been successful
for 20 years and it could still be as long as folks do not try to stab
it. 
His
book was called Faith of My Fathers. His face is in the country.
It's a patriotic talk. He's very uncomfortable talking about the sex
scandals, the private morality. He lovers talking about the fund-raising
scandals. And that really is a different way of talking. And it leads
to some policy distinctions because McCain doesn't talk about sin and
trying to alleviate sin in the inner city or elsewhere. He talks about
selfishness. If you look at McCain's career, it is a series of crusades
against people he thinks are selfish. The tobacco industry, special
interest. There is some policy implication, but on many issues, they
are just straight down the line, moderate, conservative, both of them.
JIM
LEHRER: How do you see the Bob Jones thing, do you see it the same way,
Mr. Olasky? 
DAVID
BROOKS: There are so many seismic..