For Clinton and Obama, Tight Race Hinges on Smart Strategy

HOWARD WOLFSON: Look, Senator Obama is a brilliant politician, and he's a brilliant orator. I mean, only a very successful politician could be three years removed from the Illinois State Senate and be in a position to run for president of the United States.

So we give Senator Obama an incredible amount of credit and take this race very seriously. We do not agree with our friends in the Obama campaign that the race is all but over.

We do think that the people of Wisconsin, and Texas, and Ohio want to be heard on this matter. We do think there are many large states coming up who are going to weigh in. We don't think that a contest in which only 50 delegates separates the two is all but over.

But we take Senator Obama very, very seriously. He is a gifted orator. He's a gifted politician, and this is a very close race.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, David Axelrod, in fact, Senator Clinton today is saying about Senator Obama -- and I'm quoting -- she says, "My opponent makes speeches; I offer solutions." She said, "It's one thing to get people excited; I want to empower you."

DAVID AXELROD: Well, I think that a lot of people across this country do feel empowered, and that's why we've got this great movement from the grassroots to really challenge the status quo in Washington.

And Senator Obama, there's no doubt that he inspires people. I think we all -- Howard and I just agreed on that. But you also need to be able to bring people together to get things done, and that's how he passed the most significant ethics legislation in a generation in Washington, to force the lobbyists to disclose who they're raising money from and who they're giving money to.

That's how he passed the most significant arms control legislation in the last few years, to go after loose nukes in the old Soviet area.

And here in Illinois, we're familiar with the way he put Republicans and Democrats together to pass expanded health care for people who needed it, to pass tax cuts for working people, lower-income working people, instead of people at the top.

So he has a track record, and that track record is not just inspiring people, but also bringing people together to get things done. I think people are hungering for that in this country, and I think that's why they're responding to his candidacy.

HOWARD WOLFSON: I think we are increasingly seeing a race between two candidates, one who offers three decades of results and one who offers a lot of rhetoric, someone who has a track record of making change, not just talking about change, but making change, in Senator Clinton.

And I think that that distinction is critical. The races in Ohio and Texas are going to come down to which candidate the voters there think can actually accomplish change. It's easy to talk about change; it's harder to do it.

JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you respond, David Axelrod?

DAVID AXELROD: Well, look, I honor Senator Clinton for her couple of decades in Washington. But the question is: Is she going to provide the kind of leadership and the change that we need? Is she going to bring this country together? Is she the force that can bring this country together?

We saw an example -- I give her credit for trying on health care in the '90s. We had a Democratic president, a Democratic Congress, and she couldn't get it done, because she did it behind closed doors, and it was a very polarizing fight.

I give her credit on a number of other things, but the question is: What do you get done?

HOWARD WOLFSON: What David doesn't say there is, yes, after the special interests defeated health care reform, Senator Clinton rolled up her sleeves, she got back to work, and she helped pass health care reform for 6 million kids in the mid-'90s. That's a major accomplishment.

You won't hear David Axelrod talk about it; that's fair enough. But that is a major accomplishment for the kids in this country.

DAVID AXELROD: I give the Clinton administration credit for that, Howard. I certainly do.

But the point is this: What we have in Washington today is a situation where Republicans and Democrats are shaking their fists across a jagged divide. We don't have leadership that brings us together. That's how we're going to solve problems. That's how we're going to solve health care and all the other problems we face.

Senator Clinton has some good ideas. Senator Obama has offered some very detailed ideas, including some ideas that he talked about yesterday, and he's talked about throughout this campaign.

HOWARD WOLFSON: Some ideas that he took from Senator Clinton.

DAVID AXELROD: Well, I don't think that's going to solve the problems of people who have jobs. Like I said, I give you guys credit for your ideas, and I think that we've offered some good ideas.

But they don't mean anything unless we change the fundamentals, unless we bring this country together, push back on the special interests, and really level with people about what needs to be done, and not engage in a kind of political point-scoring that we've seen so often in Washington and in these campaigns, frankly.

HOWARD WOLFSON: I'm glad that you asked that question. The testimony really centered around the housing crisis that the country faces. Senator Clinton and Senator Obama have very different plans on how to deal with the housing crisis.

Senator Clinton says, for people who have subprime mortgages, let's freeze foreclosures and let's freeze their interest rates so they don't get thrown out of their homes. It's a bold plan; it's a plan that takes on the industry, takes on the special interests.

Now, Senator Obama does not agree with that. He has criticized that. He does not go that far. So that's a key difference on a major, major issue that is confronting so many families in this country today.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, David Axelrod, the same question, and couple with it this charge from the Clinton folks yesterday that what Senator Obama laid out yesterday on the economy is copying what Senator Clinton said.

DAVID AXELROD: I mean, that is nonsense, but we'll deal with that in a second. But let's talk. Howard raises a point, and we should have that discussion, on the subprime housing situation.

Senator Clinton has proposed freezing interest rates over a period of years. Many economists, including Jared Bernstein and other leading liberal economists, have suggested that if you freeze those interest rates everyone else's interest rates will rise.

Instead, Senator Obama has suggested that we create a $10 billion fund to help people who need help to get them out of the hole that they're in and help them stay in their homes without adversely affecting everyone else who are not -- who did not have subprime loans.

In terms of the copying of ideas, Senator Obama introduced last fall a plan to cut taxes on middle-class families. A typical family would get a $1,000-a-year tax cut, under $75,000 a year, through a tax reform that would shift benefits where they're needed and get -- and that would help stimulate our economy. Right now, we have a consumer-driven downturn in our economy, as all the economists agree.

He wrote about many of the ideas that he's campaigning on now in a book two years ago. These are good ideas. Many of them are held in common, but the real question is: Who can get them done? Who can pull this country together to get them done?

And that's what this election is about. There's no doubt there are a lot of good ideas out there. We have differences like the one I've just discussed, but we agree on many things, too. The question is: Can we change the politics of Washington so we can finally get this country moving again?