Tough Words Between Clinton, Obama Build Tension in Democratic Race

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Now, this, I think, is one of the things that's happened during the course of this campaign, that there's a set of assertions made by Senator Clinton, as well as her husband, that are not factually accurate.

And I think that part of what the people are looking for right now is somebody who's going to solve problems and not resort to the same typical politics that we've seen in Washington.

That is something that I hear all across the country. So when Senator Clinton says -- or President Clinton says that I wasn't opposed to the war from the start or says it's a fairy tale that I opposed the war, that is simply not true.

When Senator Clinton or President Clinton asserts that I said that the Republicans had had better economic policies since 1980, that is not the case.

Now, the viewers aren't concerned with this kind of back-and-forth. What they're concerned about is who's actually going to help them get health care, how are they going to get their kids going to college, and that's the kind of campaign I've tried to run. I think that's the kind of campaign we should all try to run.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I couldn't agree more. But I do think that your record and what you say does matter. And when it comes to...

... a lot of the issues that are important in this race, it is sometimes difficult to understand what Senator Obama has said, because as soon as he is confronted on it, he says that's not what he meant.

The facts are that he has said in the last week that he really liked the ideas of the Republicans over the last 10 to 15 years, and we can give you the exact quote. Now, I personally think they had ideas, but they were bad ideas. They were bad ideas for America.

They were ideas like privatizing Social Security, like moving back from a balanced budget and a surplus to deficit and debt.

And with respect to putting forth how one would pay for all of the programs that we're proposing in this campaign, I will be more than happy, Barack, to get the information, because we have searched for it.

And I want to be just very explicit about this. We are not, neither my campaign nor anyone associated with it, are in any way saying you did not oppose the war in Iraq. You did. You gave a great speech in 2002 opposing the war in Iraq. That was not what the point of our criticism was.

It was, after having given that speech, by the next year, the speech was off your Web site. By the next year, you were telling reporters that you agreed with President Bush in his conduct of the war. And by the next year, when you were in the Senate, you were voting to fund the war time after time after time.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN Anchor: All right.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: So it was more about the distinction between words and action. And I think that is a fair assessment for voters to make.

GWEN IFILL: But Obama wouldn't let it end there.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: You just said that I complimented the Republican ideas. That is not true.

What I said -- and I will provide you with a quote -- what I said was is that Ronald Reagan was a transformative political figure because he was able to get Democrats to vote against their economic interests to form a majority to push through their agenda, an agenda that I objected to, because while I was working on those streets watching those folks see their jobs shift overseas, you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart.

GWEN IFILL: Some Democrats have been critical of Arkansas-based Wal-Mart because it is not unionized. Even though he was not in the room, Bill Clinton's role became a recurring theme.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: You talked about Ronald Reagan being a transformative political leader. I did not mention his name.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Your husband did.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I'm here. He's not. And...

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: OK. Well, I can't tell who I'm running against sometimes.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Well, you know, I think we both have very passionate and committed spouses who stand up for us. And I'm proud of that.

GWEN IFILL: And Clinton said Obama has a dubious connection of his own, his past fundraising association which Chicago businessman Tony Rezko, who has been indicted on fraud charges.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: I'm just reacting to the fact, yes, they did have ideas but they were bad ideas, bad for America. And I was fighting against those ideas when you were practicing law and representing your contributor, Rezko, in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

GWEN IFILL: The back-and-forth lasted nearly 10 minutes. John Edwards had to fight his way back in.

JOHN EDWARDS: What I want to say first is, are there three people in this debate, not two?

And I also want to know -- I also want to know, on behalf of voters here in South Carolina, this kind of squabbling, how many children is this going to get health care? How many people are going to get an education from this? How many kids are going to be able to go to college because of this?

We have got to understand -- you know, and I respect both of my fellow candidates -- but we have got to understand this is not about us personally. It is about...

... what we are trying to do for this country and what we believe in.

GWEN IFILL: The candidates continued to spar for the rest of the evening and then picked up again today right where they left off.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: I think what we saw last night was that he's very frustrated. And I believe that the events -- Senator Obama is very frustrated -- the events of the last 10 or so days, particularly the outcomes in New Hampshire and Nevada, have apparently convinced him to adopt a different strategy.

So he clearly came -- he telegraphed it. He talked about it. He clearly came last night looking for a fight. And he was determined and launched right in.

GWEN IFILL: Obama, campaigning in Greenville, South Carolina, said Clinton has changed her position on trade and taxes.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: The point is this. This is exactly the kind of politics we cannot afford right now, not when the stakes are this high, not when the economy is this fragile, not when so many banks are foreclosing on people's dreams.

We can't afford a president whose positions change with the politics of the moment. We need a president who knows that being ready on day one means getting it right from day one.

GWEN IFILL: Neither candidate, who earlier yesterday were giving speeches on unity and agreement, showed any sign of backing down from the political precipice. South Carolina Democrats go to the polls Saturday.

The Clinton-Obama war of words is being watched closely far beyond the confines of South Carolina, but how is it playing in the rest of the country?

For a look at that, we're joined by Democratic Party chairs from two of the 22 states that will be voting on February 5th. Gray Sasser is chair of the Tennessee Democratic Party, and Art Torres is chair of the California Democratic Party.

GRAY SASSER, Democratic Party Chair: I think, in the long term, it actually helps. As iron sharpens iron, I think it's very good to have some heated rhetoric in the campaign.

Now, it can always overheat a little bit, Gwen, but I think what we're seeing, though, is opposed to what we're seeing on the Republican side. The Democrats remain united about what's really important in this election.

We're going to see the tit-for-tat in a political campaign, and we should expect that. It makes our candidates stronger. But at the end of the day, we're not seeing a battle for the heart and soul for the Democratic Party like we're seeing on the Republican side.

I think the Democrats remain united. We remain united on expanding access to health care, changing the course in Iraq, and making sure we have affordable energy here in America.

We will continue to see the political back-and-forth. But at the end of the day, there's not that same battle on the Democratic side that we're seeing on the Republican side.

GWEN IFILL: Mr. Torres, how much of that agreement that Mr. Sasser talks about is obscured by the disagreement we watched last night?

ART TORRES, Democratic Party Chair: Well, I think it's definitely obscured because of the media attention on it. Everybody likes a fight. Every candidate gave as good as they got last night, including John Edwards.

But the fact still remains, as the chairman from Tennessee suggested, is that what unifies us is our opposition to this war, is to an economic stimulus that has to come forward out of the Congress -- and speaking with Senator Kennedy this evening, his leadership is going to be important in that arena -- and to make sure that people understand where the differences are of our parties on health care, on the economy, and clearly on how we deal with the future of education in this country.

Those issues were not totally obscured. But I think that give-and-take is important in a political campaign so people know that we're ready to fight for this nation and ready to fight for the people who have been ignored by the Republicans in the last 20 years.

Is there any danger in that for you?

ART TORRES: No, there isn't, because that's the traditional notion of where they're coming from as the Republican Party, because they don't want to attest to the fact, as the chairman from Tennessee said, as well, and that is they're trying to search out who their leader really is in the Republican Party. I don't think they know.

With Fred Thompson out of the race today, you have a different dynamic going on into the other states, clearly into Florida. Rudy Giuliani has yet to emerge. He's falling behind.

They don't know who their leader should be. We know that we have three very competent candidates still in the race who have the credentials to be the next president of the United States. And they all agree on those very basic issues which are important to the American people and which is why you saw such an incredible turnout in Iowa, New Hampshire, and clearly what you'll see this Saturday in South Carolina.

GWEN IFILL: Mr. Sasser, was the kind of -- what appeared to be animus that was saw last night to be expected in a campaign like this? Or is there some way the Democrats could have maneuvered around it and presented a more united front, even in competition?

GRAY SASSER: I think you have to expect a little bit of competition. Look, we're talking about an election, Gwen. And elections do get heated. There is some competition there.

I think, as you pointed out in your story, that that heated exchange took about 10 minutes of a debate that lasted an hour, an hour-and-a-half.

Now, we are still going to continue to see the flare-ups. We're going to continue to see the fireworks. And as my friend from California pointed out, that's what the media likes to focus on, the fireworks and the flare-ups.

And so all too often, we see the politics being covered kind of like a baseball game or a baseball season, that we're so focused on who's in first place, who's in second, are they going to fire this manager, are they going to hire this consultant, that sometimes the media drive us to focus on the fireworks instead of the bigger issues.

And those bigger issues really are, for the Democratic side, is that we're focused on changing the direction of this country. And I think all of our candidates remain united on that point.