 |
| Originally Aired: January 28, 2008 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Health Care, Economy Top Voter Concerns in New Jersey |
|
|
| In the kick-off to a week-long Big Picture series focusing on the Feb. 5 primaries, Judy Woodruff reports on the issues on the minds of New Jersey voters. A panel of New Jersey residents discusses how concerns over health care and the economy may sway their votes. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
   
  |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JIM LEHRER: Now to the first of the 2008 election features we call the "Big Picture." They're designed to encourage voters to exchange ideas about some common problems, problems that loom large in the presidential primaries. Our "Big Picture" reports this week will focus on worries about the economy. "NewsHour" correspondents will go to five of the two dozen states voting on Super Tuesday, February 5. We begin in New Jersey, and Michael Aron of Public Television's New Jersey "Nightly News" introduces his state. MICHAEL ARON: For many Americans, New Jersey is only the turnpike that takes them somewhere else. Yet, beyond the oil refineries and exit signs, there is a diverse landscape and population of urban immigrant communities, popular beaches and casino resorts, fertile farmland, and ever-sprawling bedroom communities that provide much of the work force for big-city neighbors Philadelphia and New York. New Jersey may be one of the smallest states in the nation, but it is the most densely populated, more than 8.7 million people packed within its borders. With its geographic and demographic diversity, New Jersey can easily be seen as a microcosm of America. Virtually every problem the nation faces is being grappled with here. Education, immigration, and health care top a long list. WOMAN: Oh, wow, nice and clean. MICHAEL ARON: Economically, thanks in large part to the pharmaceutical, high-tech and tourism industries, New Jersey's economy is generally thriving. There is wealth here. New Jersey consistently ranks among the highest in the nation for household income. Yet, New Jersey, like other Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states, is in dire financial straits, a point underscored by New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine during his state of the state address earlier this month. GOV. JON CORZINE (D), New Jersey: We are in a hole, and, if we want to get out we have to stop digging. The crisis has morphed into a financial emergency and poses a direct threat to New Jersey's quality of life. MICHAEL ARON: Corzine's plan to cut the state's $32 billion debt in half is a dramatic increase in highway tolls, a 50 percent hike every four years. Although motorists all along the East Coast would be forced to pay, so would New Jerseyans like Harold Frankel. HAROLD FRANKEL, Resident of New Jersey: It just gets too much. And when does it stop? You know, the common man can't pay it. MICHAEL ARON: It's a political gamble, even for a governor who's considered New Jersey's most liberal in the last 30 years. New Jersey has been leaning that way. A traditional swing state for decades, it's voted for a Democratic president in every election since 1988 and for a Democrat in every U.S. Senate race since 1972. Yet, the increasing cost to live and do business in New Jersey could have political repercussions. Property taxes are among the highest in the nation. WOMAN: Good blood pressure. MAN: One-twenty? WOMAN: One-twenty-six. MICHAEL ARON: And then there's the cost of health insurance. STEVE KALAFER, CHAIRMAN, Flemington Car and Truck Country: Forty percent of our profits last year were to provide our share of health care costs for our associates. MICHAEL ARON: Steve Kalafer is the chairman of Flemington Car and Truck Country. He says his health care costs have increased 900 percent since he first went into business 31 years ago. WOMAN: You still losing weight? MICHAEL ARON: That's why he hired a full-time nurse on his staff to help address the health care concerns of his 700 employees. STEVE KALAFER: We thought that, if we could interact with our associates early and intervene in any of their health care questions, they could make better choices on how they use health care. MICHAEL ARON: Even though more than 85 percent of New Jersey residents have health insurance, there are worrisome signs. JOEL CANTOR, Director, Rutgers Center For State Health: There's a great deal of anxiety about the future, about the risk of losing health insurance. If one loses a job or even if you don't lose a job, in a tough economy, employers are going to tighten up on health care, and people are well aware of that. MICHAEL ARON: Joel Cantor, who heads the Rutgers Center for State Health Policy, found in a recent poll health care is of utmost importance to New Jerseyans. JOEL CANTOR: The majority of people, about 60 percent, say they would be willing to pay more taxes if it meant that everybody could have health insurance that they couldn't lose. Everything in New Jersey is expensive, but health care costs go up faster than other costs. And year after year, we see the premiums going up. We see people having to pay a little bit more out of pocket for their share of the premium, and we see more and more people without coverage. MICHAEL ARON: One-point-four million New Jersey residents have no health insurance. Others are underinsured, unable to pay for the care they need. For many, that means waiting long hours at clinics like the Monmouth Family Health Center in Long Branch to get the care they can afford. WOMAN: So, what do you do at the time? MAN: I stop and sit. MICHAEL ARON: Mike Parulis lost his health care five years ago when he lost his job at a manufacturing plant. MIKE PARULIS, Resident of New Jersey: I worked at the same company for 37 years, until they closed down. And I tried to carry it as long as I could, but I couldn't afford it anymore. I didn't have no work. Nobody was hiring, and I came here. And that's when I got the stroke, and then I wound up with diabetes and neuropathy in the legs and everything. And just in prescriptions alone, just for myself, I pay close to $3,000 a year. But I still -- and that's with the Medicare program. I got a cheap program because I still need money to live on, and I'm still paying for my mortgage and everything. WOMAN: Do you play doctor at home sometimes? MICHAEL ARON: The consistent rise in New Jersey's health care costs has made that a top political issue during this presidential election year. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Dr. Michael Richardson
Anesthesiologist |
|
|
 I would describe the health care system in the U.S. and in Jersey in particular as one in crisis, on life support. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Health care experiences shape views
JIM LEHRER: And now Judy Woodruff explores how the experiences of a group of New Jersey citizens have affected the way they see the health care situation.JUDY WOODRUFF: I'm here at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center, which we chose for its view of downtown Newark, Newark being the largest city in New Jersey. And with me are eight New Jersey residents and voters with a cross-section of views on health care, the economy and this election. Now, thank you all for being with us. And you have all just seen some of the problems New Jersey is facing as we go into this election year. John Maycroft, you're a graduate student at Rutgers University. Let me start with you. JOHN MAYCROFT, Resident of New Jersey: Sure. Last July, I went into the hospital, to Robert Wood Johnson Hospital emergency department, with what turned out to be appendicitis. So, I was there for 12 hours. By that time, my appendix had long since burst. I spent eight nights in the hospital, instead of the usual one if your appendix doesn't burst. JUDY WOODRUFF: And came out with a big medical bill. JOHN MAYCROFT: With a big medical bill. I'm insured, but my insurance maxed out at $55,000, and the bill came out to $65,000. So, now I have got a $10,000 bill. JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, George Cameron, you are a security guard. You have a different situation. You have been without health insurance for several years. What has that meant? GEORGE CAMERON, Resident of New Jersey: Well, it means that I had to swallow my pride and go for charity care to help pay the bills. So, there was a lot of red tape involved and commuting back and forth for the office for the charity care. And it was something I had to beg for. JUDY WOODRUFF: Did you say beg for? GEORGE CAMERON: Pretty much. I finally said on the last instance before I had to go for the operation, please accept what I got. Give me what you can. And I will be grateful. JUDY WOODRUFF: Now Agnes Reymer, you're an attorney. Your husband, your late husband, died 11 years ago. He was a hemophiliac, had contracted AIDS. What did that experience teach you, and how has it affected your view of the health care system? AGNES REYMER: When he died, I got a bill for $180,000. That didn't panic me, because I once got a bill for $240,000 from a hospital. It took me more than a year to resolve it with insurance company. JUDY WOODRUFF: But you had to fight. AGNES REYMER, Resident of New Jersey: I had to fight. And the system is very difficult. And it takes a lot of effort and energy, and there's a lot of wasted resources going into those kind of fights. JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, Michael Richardson, you're a physician. You're a doctor, and you teach at a medical school. From your perspective, what's the health care system like in terms of the people you see coming through? DR. MICHAEL RICHARDSON, Resident of New Jersey: Well, I would describe the health care system in the U.S. and in Jersey in particular as one in crisis, on life support. And there are a number of problems that I foresee that I see currently, for example, patients with medically necessary and vital procedures and services not being paid for by the insurance companies. JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, Marjorie Perry, you own a small construction company. From the standpoint of being an employer, what's it like for you? MARJORIE PERRY, Resident of New Jersey: Well, for a small business today, we are really struggling, because to hire the best human capital that you can, people want health benefits. I add on probably an extra $10,000 or $15,000 per employee when I hire them, no matter what happens. JUDY WOODRUFF: And you have seen that go up. MARJORIE PERRY: Oh, please. Every year, we go up almost 7 percent. So, that automatically impacts our bottom line at the end of the day. JUDY WOODRUFF: David Withington, as a self-employed medical supply salesman, what would you add to what you have heard here? DAVID WITHINGTON, Resident of New Jersey: My challenge is with my -- we have a new baby, and my wife stopped working. And we had to pick up health insurance on our own. And the big challenge in New Jersey is just the high cost of health insurance. I mean, I literally have to pay out of pocket roughly -- roughly $13,000 a year, after tax dollars, for health insurance. And that's actually on a COBRA plan, which, as we all know, is slightly reduced from the market rate. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Agnes Reymer
Lawyer |
|
|
| I think the problem is people don't -- are not buying health insurance, not because they don't want it, but they really can't afford it. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Assessing universal health plans
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, as you all think about all this, your own situation and what the situation of your friends and your colleagues, what's the answer? What ought to be done to fix it?I know some of you have some very specific ideas about that. Marta, you run on a health care... MARTA SILVERBERG, Resident of New Jersey: I run a health center, and... JUDY WOODRUFF: Center. MARTA SILVERBERG: Family health center. And, as a provider I see more, more and more people that are in the middle class coming into our centers. And I see more and more people who have lost their jobs and cannot afford COBRA, cannot afford the insurance, and they come to us because we do have a sliding-fee scale based on ability to pay. JUDY WOODRUFF: What's the answer? What are some of the answers here? MARTA SILVERBERG: I think that we have to look at it as a process, to start covering people in chunks -- children first, then the -- the elderly is fine. And, actually, the poor people are actually fine, because they have Medicaid. And the only problem that they have is that there are some doctors that don't take Medicaid, but, by and large, poor people are covered well. The older people that have Medicare are covered well. It's just this middle of the -- middle of the pack that really needs to be covered. JUDY WOODRUFF: What do the rest of you think about that, about whether it's realistic, Dr. Richardson? MICHAEL RICHARDSON: Well, I think that one solution to solve several of the problems would be universal health care. JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, when you say universal, you're saying it's provided by whom? Who's organizing it? Who's making sure everybody gets covered? Who pays? MICHAEL RICHARDSON: Well, one plan out there is that you come up with tax credits. It's -- if it was easy, it would already have been accomplished. And, so, it's going to be -- it's going to have to be a bipartisan effort, and they're going to have to find the money. With the economy the way it is, it's going to be a tough -- a tough, tough fix. AGNES REYMER: I'm also in favor of universal health care and would like us to very seriously consider a single-payer system, the way they have in Great Britain. I don't think that tinkering with the current fragmented system of private insurance is going to ultimately do the job. I think the problem is people don't -- are not buying health insurance, not because they don't want it, but they really can't afford it. And the tax credit system, I'm not sure it's going to make it affordable. And I would like to see us start to find the money to pay for this by ending the war in Iraq and using those funds to pay for health care. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, single payer, meaning the government is involved. Is everybody comfortable? And, I mean, let's talk about the candidates. The Democrats who are still in the race -- Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards -- are talking about one form or another universal care. None of them is advocating full government single payer, but is that -- I mean, do all of you agree with Agnes Reymer? SHERINE EL-ABD, Resident of New Jersey: Nothing that the government does 100 percent ever works. So, going -- seeking the government's help to implement universal health care is going to make the situation much worse. I think what we might want to look into is, why are the costs so high? And perhaps one of them is to look into the malpractice insurance costs that we ultimately, as patients, have to pay for. JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes, George Cameron. GEORGE CAMERON: I noticed that Governor Huckabee from Arkansas stated very clearly different ways of creating a health care system which is not universal in the sense that it's government-run, but there's a lot of state and free enterprise, the American way, in it, and he has a lot of ideas with that. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, you are thinking that the Republican solution, which generally involves tax credits, some -- one way or another adjusting the tax system. GEORGE CAMERON: Also, state -- the state gets very actively involved. JOHN MAYCROFT: The way I feel about it is that I don't really care what it looks like, as long as it works. And my fear is that, as soon as somebody actually puts a proposal forward, half the people are going to say, no, we can't do that because of one thing or another. And so everybody's second choice is to do nothing. And it can be Democratic or Republican. As long as we get insurance and are better taken care of, that's fine with me. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
David Withington
Medical Supplies Salesman |
|
|
| We should remove government from health care and allow the free market to enable us to reach our goals. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Considering candidates' proposals
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, are you hearing from -- David Withington, are you hearing from the candidates?DAVID WITHINGTON: On the issue of health care, probably not. It's interesting. The problem's gotten so bad over the years and so complex that no one can really solve the problem. And it just seems to be more Band-Aids on top of Band-Aids on top of Band-Aids, which just makes it more and more complex. But I believe it is due to government and government involvement, and they're not the answer. They're the problem. And going to a universal system is definitely not the answer. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, it should be done by the health -- by the insurance industry, is what you're saying, and by individuals? DAVID WITHINGTON: We should remove government from health care and allow the free market to enable us to reach our goals. JUDY WOODRUFF: Everybody here? Some of you are nodding? MARJORIE PERRY: We're struggling. I mean, we're -- that -- again, my premiums this year are over $200,000. You know, my revenue is $7 million. I mean, that's gone just for health care. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, you're... MARJORIE PERRY: The employer is going to pick up the slack for the problems that happen. And even then you still have to negotiate with your employees to maybe take a higher deductible if they're in better health. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, you're saying the free market isn't working completely? MARJORIE PERRY: Because we keep getting impacted by, you know, the increases that they're saying that. So that's the free market right now as it stands today. DAVID WITHINGTON: We don't have a free market now. Fifty percent of health care is paid for by government. That's a half-socialized system right now. So -- it's because it's so confusing, it makes it complex right now. MARJORIE PERRY: But that's for the poor and that's for the elderly. DAVID WITHINGTON: We want to go further into socialized medicine. That doesn't make any sense. We don't have a free market. JUDY WOODRUFF: Agnes Reymer. AGNES REYMER: Two things. I am playing to a Democrat -- Democratic -- and I think the top, whoever we would call the top three candidates, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards, are all committed to some kind of major change that would get us to universal health care. And I think that -- that we can do it. And I hope that we take -- we bite the bullet. But I also am concerned that, with a private system, what we have seen with our current insurance system is, there's no equity. And equity's important to me. I think we have a moral obligation to provide basic health care to all. And I do not want an insurance company making medical decisions for me. I want to make those decisions with my doctor. JUDY WOODRUFF: Meaning what, that... AGNES REYMER: Meaning that, now, medical necessity, are you going to get the care, well, the person who may decide that may be an insurance company representative, who may have no real expertise in your condition. That person denies coverage for it, and, as a practical matter, you may not get that care. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, which candidates -- let me just ask all of you, which candidates are addressing this issue? Some of you traditionally voted Republican, some Democrat. Some of you are unaffiliated. There are a large number of unaffiliated voters in New Jersey. Who among the candidates is addressing? You said Clinton... AGNES REYMER: Clinton, Obama, and Edwards. JUDY WOODRUFF: ... Obama and Edwards, all three. AGNES REYMER: Obama is my choice currently. JUDY WOODRUFF: Obama? OK. MARTA SILVERBERG: OK, I'm a Democrat, and I will vote for Clinton. Clinton went through the first debacle trying to do national health insurance. And she realized all the obstacles. So, I feel that, among the Democrats, that she has the most experience to deal with that particular issue, because she failed. But that means that she knows what the pitfalls. And, hopefully, she will not go there again. JUDY WOODRUFF: Any -- anybody... SHERINE EL-ABD: I find that very scary, because we are now worried about an insurance employee making medical decisions. It's going to be worse under Clinton, because it will be a government bureaucrat making those decisions. God help us. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, whom do you like among the candidates? You're planning to vote Republican. SHERINE EL-ABD: I am going to vote Republican. I am not really sure which. I'm leaning towards Mitt Romney, but I haven't decided yet. JUDY WOODRUFF: Anybody else leaning? David Withington? DAVID WITHINGTON: I believe Rudy Giuliani offers the best plan for health care at the moment. JOHN MAYCROFT: I think they're all addressing it one way or another. I don't want to say who I'm supporting, because I want to keep the candidates nervous and on their toes. And I want to find out more about what's going to happen. JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you know which primary you're going to vote in, Democrat or Republican? Have you decided that? You're unaffiliated, we should say, John. JOHN MAYCROFT: Yes, I usually lean Democrat. I will probably -- I'm pretty certain I will vote in the Democratic primary. MARJORIE PERRY: I'm looking more towards Obama. I like Obama. Hillary has some really, really great ideas. I think he might be a little fresher and a little bit more open. JUDY WOODRUFF: Anybody else? George Cameron, you mentioned Huckabee, Governor Huckabee. GEORGE CAMERON: Yes, I'm still independent and I'm still analyzing. I'm not totally sure who I'm going to vote for. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Sherine El-Abd
Defense Contractor |
|
|
| I'm concerned about the war on terror and how, in fighting the war on terror, we have violated our civil rights here in this country, how our privacy has been intruded and violated. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Concerns over terrorism, economy
JUDY WOODRUFF: We're talking health care.But what I know is, is that issue that is mainly driving you when you go to the polls on Tuesday, February 5, for these primaries, or is it something else, David Withington? DAVID WITHINGTON: I think a strong defense, meaning terrorism, is the priority for me, with economy being a secondary issue. JUDY WOODRUFF: What part of the economy? DAVID WITHINGTON: Tax policy, you know, in terms of, you know, supporting business, just primarily making sure there's policies that encourage entrepreneurship and a good economy. JUDY WOODRUFF: Marta Silverberg. MARTA SILVERBERG: I think that the war in Iraq. We're spending billions and billions of dollars in Iraq. And I personally think that we really need to get out of Iraq, get the economy rolling, and solve health care. JUDY WOODRUFF: The economy overall for all of you? JOHN MAYCROFT: Yes, that and just financial insecurity in general. I mean, when -- I'm going to graduate in May. I'm going to have to find a job. And I need to find a job with health care coverage. So, you know, all of that, even thinking all the way toward retirement -- I'm only 27 -- but is there going to be Social Security? Am I going to be able to do these things? SHERINE EL-ABD: Judy, I'm concerned about the war on terror and how, in fighting the war on terror, we have violated our civil rights here in this country, how our privacy has been intruded and violated, particularly targeting Arab-Americans and Muslims. JUDY WOODRUFF: Of whom you are one. SHERINE EL-ABD: Yes, of whom I'm a proud one. And that really is so against everything American. MICHAEL RICHARDSON: The economy is number one. Last year, it was the war in Iraq and terrorism. Now it's the economy. It's affordable housing. It's the real estate market and the subprime lending debacle, which world markets have lost confidence in America's ability to manage its own economy. So, the economy is number one. JUDY WOODRUFF: George Cameron? GEORGE CAMERON: I'm hoping that the next president would be more for Americans. There's so much money going out of the country, but not enough staying with us taking care of Americans. JUDY WOODRUFF: Agnes Reymer. AGNES REYMER: I certainly think it's very important to support a candidate who will get us out of Iraq. And I also think it's important that we never get involved in a situation like Iraq again. Another issue that's important to me is fair immigration policy and avenues for illegal immigrants who have been in this country and worked hard to become citizens. JUDY WOODRUFF: And you all feel -- you feel that the candidates are addressing the issues? SHERINE EL-ABD: Not enough, and not genuine. JOHN MAYCROFT: I think voters have to be more demanding of a candidate. We need to keep some pragmatism, because, if we let this fall apart again, if we let health care reform fall apart, it could be years before we have another chance. And how many people are going to stay with -- have my story again, where they have got a $10,000 hospital bill? How many more people are going to be uninsured? How many more people are going to be in just these horrible situations? And it's going to take a lot of pragmatism. And it's going to take a lot of pressure on the candidates. JUDY WOODRUFF: Pragmatism meaning a willingness to work across party lines? JOHN MAYCROFT: Nobody's going to get exactly what they want. But we have to get something. DAVID WITHINGTON: I hate to close on that, because I think pragmatism, doing what's practical, oftentimes gets us in this problem in the first place. I would suggest that, you know, we want a government to get out of our way and encourage the people to do for themselves, rather than seek candidates or a government that's going to do for us. And, unfortunately, I think a lot of people are looking for government to do for us, rather than us to do for ourselves, and have a candidate that will support that -- support those goals. JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we have a range a views we have heard today in Newark. And I want to thank each one of you for being with us. Thank you very, very much. AGNES REYMER: Thank you. MARJORIE PERRY: Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Health Care, Economy Top Voter Concerns in New Jersey |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
