Race Issues Stir Tension Among Democratic Candidates

REV. JOSEPH LOWERY, Co-Founder, Southern Christian Leadership Conference: Well, I didn't hear her make the statement from the beginning, but I can understand how some people may have felt that it implicitly diminished the role of Dr. King.

If Mrs. Clinton says that's not what she meant, then I'm willing to take her word for it.

It was divisive, unfortunately. We have to avoid that as best we can and stay on the issues. I think the American people want to hear us talk about the critical issues that face us as a nation in the future.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Representative Lewis, how did you interpret? And you just heard Reverend Lowery say he can see how some people felt that that diminished Dr. King's role.

REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), Georgia: Judy, I knew Martin Luther King, Jr. I marched with him. I worked with him. He played a major role in inspiring people, giving people hope.

I also knew Lyndon Johnson. I was there with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., on March 15, 1965, when we watched Lyndon Johnson deliver his speech in response to what was happening in Selma, when he said, "And we shall overcome."

I looked at Dr. King. He looked at me, and tears came down his eyes. And he said, "We will get the civil rights bill, the voting rights bill passed. We will march from Selma to Montgomery."

I think there's been a deliberate, systematic attempt on the part of some people in the Obama camp to really fan the flame of race and really try to distort what Senator Clinton said. I understand and I think most right-thinking people understood what she said.

Martin Luther King, Jr., created the climate, created the environment, but it took a Lyndon Johnson to get the legislation through the Congress.

No one is trying to say Dr. King did little. He did a great deal. He is not crying out from his grave in Atlanta saying, "Defend me." His legacy doesn't need any defense.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Reverend Lowery, what about -- there seems to be a fundamental, at least a difference of opinion here on what the role of Dr. King was, at least as it's been referenced by Senator Clinton.

You're saying you can see how some people would have seen this as diminishing his role, and Representative Lewis is saying no.

REV. JOSEPH LOWERY: Well, I don't think there's any need to defend Martin Luther King. I don't hear anybody say that his role was diminished. I think some people may have read that, but it wasn't the Obama camp, as I understand it, that raised the issue.

It was media. The media saw something in the statement that Mrs. Clinton denies was there.

I'm willing to take Mrs. Clinton's word. And I chastise those in the media who raised it from that perspective.

We don't need that. We don't need that. We've got candidates who are good candidates.

I think all of them have to avoid saying what's divisive. That's what I like about Obama. He is trying to heal and bring us together. And I think we all ought to avoid anything that divides us. In the end, we all want to be together and change the direction of this country.

REP. JOHN LEWIS: Let me say, Judy, President Clinton and Senator Clinton have a long record of working to bring people together. Long before President Clinton ever dreamed of running for president, long before Senator Clinton ever dreamed of running for president, they have a history, a very, very long history.

And no right-thinking, informed American would ever believe that President Clinton or Mrs. Clinton would do anything to use the race card.

REV. JOSEPH LOWERY: Well, I think that's absolutely false. I never heard the Obama people respond until media had done it. A columnist in the New York Times and others on radio and television and in the print media all raised the issue, was this below the belt?

If Mrs. Clinton says that was not her intention, I accept that. And I don't think John or anybody else ought to try to blame the Obama campaign for raising the issue. They did not.

And I think all of us ought to urge all the candidates to stay on the issues, the economy, the war, justice, fairness in our country. Those are the issues.

And I don't think we need to defend -- I certainly don't need to defend Martin Luther King. And I don't think John needs to defend the Clintons.

What we need to do is concentrate on the issues facing the American people and keep the campaign where it ought to be: around the issues.

REP. JOHN LEWIS: Well, I agree with you very much, Joe, that we should stay on the issues. And that's what Mrs. Clinton has attempted to do.

She only referred to the issue of Dr. King when Obama, Mr. Obama, raised the question of leadership in his speeches. Mrs. Clinton was saying we need more than rhetoric. We need more than speeches.

Dr. King gave some great speeches. He took to the street, and there was action, but he needed a president to pass the legislation.

JUDY WOODRUFF: You're saying this came out of the language that Senator Obama is using on the campaign trail?

REP. JOHN LEWIS: Well, I think it did come out of the language that Mr. Obama is using, but the Obama camp is also doing something else. They're sending out memos to members of the media, trying to suggest that the Clintons are playing the race card.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Reverend Lowery?

REV. JOSEPH LOWERY: Well, when you use words like "fairy tale," when you try to -- when you get into comparative structure and situations, you open yourself to all kinds of implications.

And I think that's why I think it's wise for candidates to stay on the issues. As I said before, if Mrs. Clinton denies, I don't think, John, you need to spend your time defending Mrs. Clinton.

REP. JOHN LEWIS: I'm just trying to set the record straight. Joe, I must tell you...

REV. JOSEPH LOWERY: If she said that's not what she meant, good. I take it from there. Let's move from there and deal with the economy, the war, health care, the issues that people care about.

REP. JOHN LEWIS: That's what Mrs. Clinton has been all about and her campaign has been all about: the issues, health care, education.

REV. JOSEPH LOWERY: But Mrs. Clinton -- let her say that. Let me hear her say that's not what she meant. When she does, I'll accept it.

Just yesterday, Bob Johnson, founder of Black Entertainment Television, appeared to again bring that up. He said "what he was doing in the neighborhood." We just played a clip of that. How do you explain those comments?

REP. JOHN LEWIS: Judy, I think you really have to ask Mr. Johnson. I don't know what he had in mind when he made the reference to what is in his book. He could have been talking about the community organizing that Mr. Obama had been involved in on the south side of Chicago. It's very hard and difficult for me to read his mind.

REV. JOSEPH LOWERY: But it's very difficult, also, to listen to the demeaning tone that Bob used and think he was talking about something as positive as community organizing. Obviously, he was referring to something that he considered less than right.

And I regret that very much, because again that's a distraction we don't need. We need to talk about what these candidates plan to do about the critical problems facing the American people. And we need to do everything we can to heal wounds and to bring people together. That's what I like about Obama's campaign.

REP. JOHN LEWIS: Well, I'll tell you, President Clinton and Senator Hillary Clinton for many, many years have been all about bringing people together and not dividing people according to race, agenda or class.