Upon U.S. Troop Pullback, Jones Assesses Iraq's Future

GEN. JAMES JONES: Correct.

JIM LEHRER: ... when all U.S. troops will be out, is driven by a campaign promise by then-candidate Senator Barack Obama or by the reality of what's been happening on the ground?

GEN. JAMES JONES: I think it's been driven by the reality of what's happening on the ground, the assessment of the capabilities that we made and the Iraqis made of themselves and their capabilities.

We've been working very hard on this. We've done studies of the capabilities of the Iraqi security forces, both the police and the army, which now numbers over 230,000, I think.

And so this has not been driven by any kind of timesheet, but really by what are the capabilities of the forces and what can they do. And we programmed it out to say we think they'll be at a certain level of competence by this date. We're reaching this date. Everybody agrees that they're there, and we do risk assessments.

But to their credit, the Iraqis insisted that and President Maliki insisted that they're ready. And we're executing. And I think that's encouraging.

JIM LEHRER: Looking back, the New York Times' lead editorial today said today that this was an unnecessary war. Is that how you feel about it?

GEN. JAMES JONES: Well, I think that's going to be debated for a long time. I don't think anybody is really thrilled necessarily with how we got into it, in terms of what we expected to find, the whole issue of weapons of mass destruction.

But as we go through this, we have contributed our treasure, our sons and daughters to the liberation of an entire country very strategically placed in the Middle East. And it's on its way to having a good ending, which we hope will result in a freer society and peace. And we'll contribute to peace in the Middle East, which is important.

But I think, for all of the pain that we went through at the beginning and the debates that we've had nationally, this is on its way to as good an ending as I could have forecast.

JIM LEHRER: So in the final analysis, was it worth the cost in American lives and resources to get what was accomplished in Iraq?

GEN. JAMES JONES: I think this will be a question for historians to decide as they look back and consider the entire effort. From my standpoint, I was on active duty in uniform and supporting the policies of our government. And, you know, I think that the debate will continue for a while.

At the end of the day, though, I hope that the sacrifice that was made will be appreciated by the people of the region, the Iraqi people in particular, and will contribute to the quest for peace in the Middle East, which is extremely important from an overall strategic standpoint, and we're still working on it today.

GEN. JAMES JONES: Well, Jim, I just returned back from a visit to Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. And this was my first visit back over there since the new strategy came out.

One thing I feel good about is that the strategy now is well accepted. It's accepted here at home, and it's accepted by our allies. It's accepted by the Afghanis and the Pakistanis. And that was a good effort to be a part of.

My visit this past week was to go out there and see how, since the strategy was announced, how we're doing. And we're creating a way in which we can measure our progress. We all know that our military does very well and our allies do very well, so security is not the pillar that we're worried about.

What we're really worried about is economic development and reconstruction and also governance and rule of law. We believe that it's clear that, over the years, that we've won all of our military battles, we've managed to restore order to large parts of the country, although we've slipped in the south in the last couple of years.

But in the main, we do well militarily. It's the other two pieces that have been lacking in cohesion and coordination.

And the central focus of this strategy is to grow the Afghan army at a faster rate, grow the Afghan police capability at a faster rate, and give the people of Afghanistan more evidence that economic recovery, and a better way of life, and a more secure way of life, and better government at the local, at the regional, and at the national level is possible.

And working with all of our allies and working with the government of Afghanistan and now Pakistan, I think we have the chance of turning the corner on this. But it's still too early to tell.

JIM LEHRER: Just a chance? That's all we have?

GEN. JAMES JONES: I think we have a good chance, if it's done right. Jim, all of the elements for success are there; all the pieces are on the table. It's a question of putting three or four of the big pieces of the puzzle together so they work and then the puzzle becomes easier. I think we'll know -- I think we'll know within a calendar year whether our strategy is moving forward successfully.

JIM LEHRER: By what measurement?

GEN. JAMES JONES: By the measurement of security...

JIM LEHRER: Security.

GEN. JAMES JONES: ... which we can measure. By the measurement of whether we are bringing in, when we establish security, economic programs and development in a concentrated way, where development is needed, better schools, better electricity where it's needed, better water, economic investment, agriculture, better irrigation projects.

We are working with 47 sovereign countries, the U.N., the E.U., NATO, the World Bank, the IMF, and all of the volunteer organizations. There's no good excuse for not being successful in Afghanistan.

GEN. JAMES JONES: I think we still need to wait and see. It certainly looks like it's moving in that direction, but you never know.

We have taken, as the president said, a measured look at what's going on. We've spoken up to decry violence and loss of life. But I think we'll have to wait and see how it sorts out.

JIM LEHRER: But that's it for the U.S., right? There's nothing else that can be done or will be done?

GEN. JAMES JONES: I don't think there's anything that we could or should have done to materially affect the events on the ground as they unrolled, as they unfolded. I think the world watched. The world is reaching its conclusions. And we'll just have to wait and see how the next government presents itself.

JIM LEHRER: As a matter of policy, the United States still recognizes Ahmadinejad as the legitimate president of Iran and the U.S. is still willing to consider conversations with him and his government from this point on?

GEN. JAMES JONES: I wouldn't go completely that far to say that those two things necessarily follow in trace. We'll wait and see what happens a little bit longer. And then we'll have some conclusions based on both of those questions.

JIM LEHRER: But there would be conclusions just mostly of words, right? I mean, there's no actions or deeds that the U.S. is contemplating, are there?

GEN. JAMES JONES: There's no actions, in terms of military action, if that's what you're referring to.

JIM LEHRER: Right. Right. Yes.

GEN. JAMES JONES: No, I think the people of Iran to a large extent feel that they've been slighted and wronged. They are doing what they can to manifest that displeasure.

I think that it's fair to say that the next government, if it is the president is re-elected and there's no change anywhere else, is going to have to deal with the consequence of the perceptions that many people have, that the election wasn't fair.

Now, how they recover is their problem. We will draw our own conclusions based on how this all sorts out, and we will sort out our relationships at an appropriate time.

JIM LEHRER: Now, of course, there's Honduras. The president was ousted in a military coups, taken to Costa Rica. Today he says, "I'm coming back on Thursday." He's going to be accompanied by leaders of other Latin American countries. The people in the new government say, "You come back here, we will arrest you." What does the United States do, if anything, about that?

GEN. JAMES JONES: I think the United States does exactly what the president suggested that we do. We are for democratic processes and democratic change of government when that time comes.

We do not support violent overthrows of democratically elected governments. And if the president wants to return to his country, that's his decision. We still recognize the legitimate president of the country.

JIM LEHRER: And we still -- in other words, the U.S. would not do business with this new military-run government?

GEN. JAMES JONES: Our position right now is, we still recognize the legitimacy of the president. And so that's the gentleman we're going to be dealing with, unless...

JIM LEHRER: He addressed the U.N. today...

GEN. JAMES JONES: Exactly.

JIM LEHRER: ... and is coming to Washington...

GEN. JAMES JONES: And, by the way, this is not a unilateral decision. Everybody in the Organization of American States also supports this. So we're in good company. We're not alone.

JIM LEHRER: And he's coming to Washington as president, even though no matter what happens on Thursday, he says he's coming to address the OAS, right?

GEN. JAMES JONES: Correct. Correct.

JIM LEHRER: The U.S. has no problem with that?

GEN. JAMES JONES: No.

JIM LEHRER: Why not?

GEN. JAMES JONES: He's the legitimately elected president of the country, and that's who's recognized at the U.N., by the Organization of American States, and for the moment by us, as well.