ONE-ON-ONE

	November 3, 2000
	As part of a series of debates on who should be our next president, Ray Suarez moderates a discussion between two teachers.

JIM LEHRER: Another one-on-one. Our last week debates on who should be the next President of the United States and to Ray Suarez. RAY SUAREZ: Joining me now are two public high school teachers. Lea Kelley teaches English in Tacoma, Washington, and advises the school newspaper there; she supports Vice President Gore; and Joe Beckett, who's a student teacher in Anne Arbor, Michigan; he's earning his master's degree and is backing George W. Bush. Joel Beckett, why do you support Governor Bush? JOEL BECKETT: I support Bush for two main reasons: One, because he is in favor of school choice. I think competition is essential for the school reform that politicians are talking about nowadays. And second, I support Bush because he's in favor of faith-based programs, after school programs. RAY SUAREZ: And, Lea Kelley, why do you support Al Gore? LEA KELLEY: I support Gore for a number of reasons. In terms of education, I believe that Al Gore is unwilling to leave any school behind in this new economy. I think that offering students choice becomes almost an excuse toe to allow some schools to fail and other students to join successful schools. RAY SUAREZ: Well, Joel, you mentioned school choice as one of your big points in favor of Governor Bush. I know you have mentioned you would like to go to work in the Detroit system. How would school choice, the way the Governor visions it, change a system like that one? JOEL BECKETT: Well, first of all, I think if you are going to change family schools, there needs to be some kind of accountability. You have over 65,000 students right now on a waiting list for scholarships to go to private schools and to parochial schools. And I think we should honor the opinions of the parents whose child are in the inner city schools and some of the failing schools. If they say that vouchers are going to be a good thing, that school choice is a good thing, I want to trust their opinions. I want to trust that they know what's best for their student. RAY SUAREZ: Lea Kelley? LEA KELLEY: Yes. RAY SUAREZ: Well, how would this idea addressing the problem, especially failing schools, in let's say a large city, aging district? LEA KELLEY: Well, I think that ultimately the answer for all of our students is improve all of our schools. So rather than investing our public money in private schools, parochial schools, what we should do is invest in the public schools that we have. We should reduce class size. We should improve the buildings that are falling down. And then we benefit all students -- both the ones that are in public schools and the ones that are already in successful private schools. RAY SUAREZ: Well, Governor Bush in his education program proposes a system where it would be easier, let's say, to close down schools that simply have not done the job for their children. Can you see that as part of an answer? LEA KELLEY: I think that there's nothing wrong with closing down a failing school if you have actually done everything that you can to improve that school. But we haven't yet made an effort to really improve schools. We've given schools tests but we haven't given them the means to improve their schools. They don't have the books; they don't have desks for all of their students. And until we do that, I don't think that you can say that the schools themselves are failing. RAY SUAREZ: And you feel that Vice President Gore has more of an answer that goes toward that part of solving the school puzzle? LEA KELLEY: I feel that Gore has expressed a willingness to use federal funds to invest in school construction and so, yeah I do think he has done that. RAY SUAREZ: And Joel, when we talk about failing school systems, do you agree with Lea Kelley that not enough has been done yet by anybody to address some of the things like aging buildings, the need for more teachers? JOEL BECKETT: I think there have been a lot of significant efforts made, and I applaud the people who have made the efforts. But at the same time I don't think we need to wait for ultimate failure before we introduce some kind of alternative system. I think by waiting until the school, you know, actually crumbles is a foolish way to go about it. I think it is obvious enough that there are a lot of schools in the inner city that are struggling. I don't see why we wouldn't want to do something about that now. I think everything should be done to help those students, yet at the same time you have all these families that are asking to get out and are asking for help to go to other schools, schools of choice, parochial schools, private schools. And I think we should honor that; we should honor the opinions of the people that are stuck in these failing schools. RAY SUAREZ: Coming out of the conventions, Joel Becket, Vice President Gore made several speeches to large gatherings of teachers and got big applause each time when he mentioned that he wanted teachers to be treated like professionals and paid better. I guess an observer might think that would be music to your ears. JOEL BECKETT: I'm certainly not going to object to better pay. One of the things that do I like about Bush in regards to that statement is he supports teacher testing. If you look at other professionals like lawyers or real estate agents or CPA's, they all have to go through a rigorous amount of testing to be able to get where they are. And I think teachers shouldn't be exempt from that. I think teachers should have to prove that they know the material that they're going to be teaching and should be accountable to that. I think there are far too many teachers that are in schools today, and that are influencing the nation's youth, that really don't have a handle on the topics that they're trying to teach. RAY SUAREZ: Well, Lea Kelley, would Vice President Gore, who is a clear ally of the teachers' unions help reach Joel Becket's goal of making it easier to test for competence of teachers? LEA KELLEY: Well, Gore certainly has said that he would like to toast teachers. But I don't think that testing anyone can be the answer. Obviously teachers that don't like teaching or don't know what they're teaching should not be teaching. But what we need to do is not focus on getting rid of the teachers we have but hiring new teachers and giving the teachers that we have the training that they need and the time that they need to adequately meet the needs of all of their students. RAY SUAREZ: Well, since we're on the subject of testing, both candidates have proposals that include using testing as a tool for understanding how the students are doing. How do you feel about that part of the proposal, Lea? LEA KELLEY: I think that if you're going to use testing, you have to be willing to invest in helping students to meet the guidelines that you are putting on the tests. You can't simply give someone a test and say here, you have to pass this. You have to say we're going to help you pass the test. We're going to provide you with the training. We are going to make sure that every student has a book. Then we're going to give you the test, we're going to see what you're doing and how we can help you to improve. RAY SUAREZ: And, Joel, what about Governor Bush's emphasis on teaching and his education proposals - testing and his education proposals? JOEL BECKETT: Ray, I think that he has shown in Texas... I mean I completely agree with everything that Lea said. Yes, we do need to be able to equip the students to be able to pass a test instead of just giving it to them. But I think in Texas that has happened. The score of fourth graders, African American fourth graders in Texas among national tests was one of the best in the nations. That to me sounds pretty positive. That sounds like they've made good progress, certainly among the students that have performed poorly in the past, particularly minority students in failing schools, they've made a concerted effort to help them out, to teach them the skills that they're going to need and test them appropriately on that. RAY SUAREZ: Well, in addition to both being teachers, you're both young working people as well. Do you believe that your prospects are brighter, Joel Beckett, in the coming years as you start to get your career going and start to make some material gains for yourself, that the things will do better under a President Bush? JOEL BECKETT: Yeah, I do. I am pleased with the amount of publicity -- education and how it's been such a hot issue this whole election. I think it's good that the nation has finally started to pay attention to it and realizing that we might have a problem in our hands in the next few years with so many teachers retiring and whatnot. As far as material gains, yes, I do think Bush is going to be best for the economy. I think we have a strong economy right now, but the economy is only going to slow down with more taxes and heavier regulation. I think Bush believes in the freedom of the marketplace and he is going to trust the marketplace to do what's best for the country. RAY SUAREZ: And, Lea Kelley? LEA KELLEY: Yes, I don't think that Bush would be good for the economy. I think that his policies are not sound fiscal policies. I think that a tax credit is not going to improve how our economy runs. I think that we need to take the money that Americans have already paid through taxes and use that to reinvest in our students who are our most struggling students and so that we can bring them up so that everyone can successfully participate in the economy. RAY SUAREZ: Lea Kelley, Joel Beckett, thank you both very much. JOEL BECKETT: Thank you, Ray.