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| ELECTION REFORM | |
 July 31, 2001  |
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A commission, led by Presidents Carter and Ford, recommends making election day a national holiday, among other reforms. Background: |
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Welcome to you both. What was the biggest problem you were trying to fix here?
If you feel that you were entitled to vote, you're going to get to vote and your eligibility will be determined afterwards. I don't think any of us feel that we can perfect voting machines, but we can certainly cut way, way back, you know, on the number of unregistered votes. And finally, by setting standards and deadlines after the election is over that are objective, I think we would avoid the kind of situation we faced in Florida for more than a month. MARGARET WARNER: And your commission found that these problems were definitely not confined to Florida.
MARGARET WARNER: And many of these other studies have really zeroed in on that. CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: Right. But what we are saying -- and it is unanimous -- is not only is that not the most important problem but that's the wrong solution. There are jurisdictions around the country that use punch cards very effectively, produce ballot spoilage rates of a half percent or less and there are places where it would be tough to get rid of it. Moreover, we feel very strongly that if jurisdictions rush and spend the money to invest in say optical scanning equipment -- MARGARET WARNER: That's the one where you fill in the dots. CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: You fill in the dots. They're buying a technology that is really not the best for people with disabilities, for people who are blind, for people with limited English proficiency. And we don't want folks to get rid of the punch cards and lock themselves into a technology.
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CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: But -- MARGARET WARNER: Isn't that a little high? CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: Well, it's actually reasonably aggressive for the next election cycle, which is what we recommend. Remember that that 2 percent spoilage rate includes both under counts and over counts and under votes and over votes and the under votes, the academic estimates are that roughly .75, three quarters of a percent of all ballots include an under vote intended by the voter. They didn't want to vote for President. MARGARET WARNER: And let's just remind people -- the under vote is
when no vote apparently appears for a particular. FORMER SEN. SLADE GORTON: The over vote is when you vote for two. MARGARET WARNER: Two. You're saying that maybe three quarters of a percent is actually intended by the voters.
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MARGARET WARNER: There's been some criticism on Capitol Hill from some quarters that you gave states more authority here. For instance, they're supposed to set up statewide voter registration and so on. But you're not suggesting that Congress require the states to do anything. Explain why you think the states are going to follow these without that and why didn't you.
My own feeling is that the great bulk of the states would follow these where we're giving them no incentives of all because of the nature of last year's election. Chris has a little bit less faith in the states and more faith in Congress and a federal system. So there is that difference. But I think both of us want to unite on the proposition that that difference is much less important than what we agreed upon, and what we agreed on would greatly improve the administration and the fairness of the election system in America.
If you use the carrot, is it going to be enticing enough to get states to do it? Will the appropriations really be there to produce the incentives for the states and so forth? But, beyond that, I think at least to me it's a many symbolic issue. So many of these issues are so fundamental and the rights are so important that almost as a moral statement it's important to say that this is required, that this is a baseline in the quality of democracy to which every citizen is entitled.
CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: Well, if you think about Florida, for example, the problem of people showing up at the precinct and being turned away because the poll worker couldn't find their name on a list would be gone, would be absolutely gone. Moreover, with a statewide system and with statewide provisional balloting, which we are recommending and which is beyond what Florida has done in its reforms, you could walk into a precinct any place in the state and be allowed to vote at least provisionally, at least for statewide offices for President, for Governor, for Senator, et cetera. MARGARET WARNER: Because the election workers would have a computerized completely networked list. FORMER SEN. SLADE GORTON: It goes beyond that. They would have a computerized printout. MARGARET WARNER: They wouldn't be sitting there going through their papers.
But, as Chris has said, not only would this be true in your own precinct, but you could go anywhere in the state, if you were away from home. Now, under those circumstances your vote would only be counted for President and for the statewide offices for the races you were actually entitled to vote for. So in this case we can cure completely 100 percent that justified outrage of a person who says I'm registered to vote and the election officer says, sorry, we don't have your name on the list. We're not going to let you do it. CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: Now, if you combine that with the pressure to improve the quality of the infrastructure, this 2 percent or better, these benchmarks, so that poor neighborhoods and affluent neighborhoods still have the same quality of voting infrastructure, that's a huge advance. It's an absolutely huge advance. I'm very encouraged about it. We're optimistic that Congress will move in this direction. |
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MARGARET WARNER: Let's touch briefly on two other points. You had so many that we can get to them all. But making the election day a national holiday, making it perhaps jibe with Veterans Day -- why do you think that's a good idea? CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: Go ahead, Slade. FORMER SEN. SLADE GORTON: Not because we think that more people would necessarily vote. That has not shown to be the case -- but for two reasons: More places would be available for voting places. Schools are increasingly reluctant to allow outsiders in during school days, for example. And secondly, far more people would be available to be election judges, to volunteer for that work.
MARGARET WARNER: And another one was asking the networks for a voluntary embargo on when they would report projections, which was to wait until all the polls closed in the continental U.S. They've been asked to do this many times and have refused. Why would they agree? FORMER SEN. SLADE GORTON: You start with that one, Chris.
MARGARET WARNER: It depresses the vote. CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: It depresses the vote, and it makes people feel as though their vote somehow counts less. And, remember, it's not just about the President. We need people going to the polls in California, in Oregon and Washington State for all the races and all the ballot propositions down the line. Democracy needs to work by having as many people possible participate. Now, if the networks won't do it voluntarily, a strong consensus, not unanimity but a very strong consensus on the commission felt federal legislation would be appropriate. It could be directed at the state and local officials so that they would not release formal election results until all the polls in the lower 48 were closed, but there are ways that we think we could act on it legislatively. MARGARET WARNER: So you think there are ways to act on it that wouldn't run into First Amendment problems?
CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: By wide margins sometimes. FORMER SEN. SLADE GORTON: And sometimes by wide margins. That voluntary action might possibly take place. MARGARET WARNER: All right. Senator Gorton, Chris Edley, thank you both very much. CHRISTOPHER EDLEY: Thanks for having us. |
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MARGARET
WARNER: For more on the Commission's recommendations, we're joined by
two members, former Republican Senator Slade Gorton from Washington
State, and Christopher Edley, former special counsel to President Clinton.
He is a professor at Harvard Law School. 
FORMER
SEN. SLADE GORTON: I think there was wide agreement that three things
went wrong in Florida. First, people who claimed the right to vote were
turned away at the polls. Second, at least some of the voting machines
simply didn't work to register the actual votes of people who went to
the polls. And third, after the election was over, the recounts were
standardless, deadlines were missed, deadlines were extended. And we
have recommendations that deal with all three of them. I think our recommendations
will take care of the first completely, as President Carter said. 
CHRISTOPHER
EDLEY: Absolutely not. I think the statement by the Georgia Secretary
of State to the Commission was instructive. She basically said there
but for the grace of God go I. If anybody had focused on Georgia in
a tight election the way they focused on Florida, the problems might
have seemed even worse. We weren't fighting the battle of Florida, we
were looking at the problems, the challenges in the nation as a whole.
I think one of the more surprising things that we're recommending relates
to the machinery because I think it's commonly the impression that just
get rid of the punch card machines. 
FORMER
SEN. SLADE GORTON: I think the key that I don't believe any other group
came up with, instead of saying here's the right technology, we say
here's the right result, here's the right result. You come up with a
technology that meets these goals, not just in 50 states but in everyone
of the thousands of election jurisdictions across the country. And our
federal, the new federal agency will come up with tests through the
National Institute of Standards to determine which kinds of machines
and which brands of machines will meet these requirements.
MARGARET
WARNER: But the error rate that you all recommended as being allowable
was 2 percent. 
CHRISTOPHER
EDLEY: That's right. So when you net it out, we're really talking about
one 1 ¼ percent errors or ballot spoilage that is either related
to the machinery or to voter confusion. Now I think the point to emphasize
here is that there are some counties in the country that are already
meeting that standard but there are a great many that aren't. And our
emphasis because we believe that the quality of the infrastructure of
democracy needs to be the same in every community, regardless of wealth,
regardless of color, regardless of class, we don't want situations like
we've seen in Florida where you have some precincts with ballot spoilage
rates of half a percent or less and in the same county other precincts
with spoilage rates of 20 percent. We're saying 2 percent across the
board ought to be a goal and then people can think about the right mix
of investments, of voter education, of poll worker training that will
achieve that goal and hopefully reduce it in the long run. 
CHRISTOPHER
EDLEY: Well, obviously there's an aspiration that they'll step up to
the plate and be good citizens because it's critically important particularly
in the West where Slade is from. It does do damage, we are absolutely
convinced it does do damage to the democratic process. 
