ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: As we reported earlier, Congress approved a $40 billion package today for recovery efforts in New York, increased transportation security and the counter-terrorist effort. Also, the Senate approved a use of force resolution, and members have been receiving briefings about the progress of the terrorist attack investigations. We talk about all that now with two Senators: Democrat Bob Graham of Florida, he is chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee; and Republican Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Graham, what can you add to the information we just heard about the investigation?
SEN. BOB GRAHAM: The investigation is proceeding in an expedited manner. As indicated, those who were responsible for the hijackings have now been identified and a web of people around those will be interviewed to determine who -- the next circle of individuals who committed this horrific act.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Senator Graham, are you getting debriefings, getting the information you need in the briefings? There was some complaining yesterday that people in Congress weren't getting full briefings.
SEN. BOB GRAHAM: In my opinion, the first priorities of the investigation now are to determine if there are any survivors, to move as expeditiously as possible, to answer the questions as to whether there will be future chapters after Tuesday and, if so, to take protective actions, and to continue the investigation to determine with the greatest possible specificity who was responsible for these terrible tragedies.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: So you are getting the briefings or you aren't?
SEN. BOB GRAHAM: We are getting briefings. But my judgment, those three previous items are the priorities for the same people who would be giving us briefings.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Senator Hagel, anything to add here?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL: No, I think Senator Graham has said it exactly right. Let's keep our priorities straight. I don't think 535 members of Congress need briefings every three hours. We have charged the President, the executive branch, the FBI, the CIA, all who are part of that to get this job done. That's where I would like to see them focus. So I am perfectly pleased and satisfied with the kind of material, information, briefings we're receiving.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: On the use of force resolution, Senator Hagel, give us an idea of how the language was arrived at and tell me what it authorizes in your view.
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL: Well, the language was crafted as a result of the White House, representatives of the President's administration, the House, the Senate, bipartisan effort, coming together with a common objective. And that is to show the unity that we need to show to the American people and to the world that this administration, with the support of the President's cabinet and the Congress is going to do what's required and what's necessary to get the facts, the information, be secure with those facts and information, and then deal with the punishment that will in fact be coming, and in addition to that, deal with the long-term aspect of what we are about here? I think it's important the American public understand this is not a short-term effort. This is an effort that's going to require a tremendous amount of coalition building from the free world to deal with the scourge of terrorism and a commitment to go as long as we need to go to drive a stake through the heart of terrorism. That's what this resolution essentially does. It gives the President the tools, the support to do that.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Senator Graham, how is it unlike the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which many people who voted for it later came to believe was too general? I notice there is the word harbored - it authorizes force not only against nations or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks but also harbored those who did.
SEN. BOB GRAHAM: It goes to two additional ways: One, it extends beyond those who actually committed the acts to sovereign nations which provided support, financing, safe havens for the terrorists. And it allows the President to take preventive action by those persons who committed the acts on September 11 if we have evidence that they are about to strike again. I was not in the Congress when the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was passed. From some of the more senior members of the Senate who were, their complaint seemed to be not with the resolution itself, but the fact that in the implementation of the resolution the intent of Congress was exceeded and therefore they urged that there be consistent oversight of the use of this resolution to avoid what happened at the beginning of the Vietnam War.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Now, Senator Graham, I want to raise a couple of things that Secretary Wolfowitz said. He said given some of the weapons they have, speaking of the terrorists, this could just be the beginning. Could you comment on that?
SEN. BOB GRAHAM: Yes. There has been a concern since Tuesday that Tuesday was not a one-event book; that this is a situation which we may be facing subsequent chapters by the same people who committed the acts on Tuesday. But they would not necessarily and probably would not be using the same methods of hijacking planes. And so we have been on high alert for a potential follow-on series of actions that could take any form from car bombs to attacking other forms of transportation.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Senator Hagel on that?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL: Sell, Senator Graham is right. I think we have to remember that terrorism comes in all forms. It's asymmetrical. Terrorism strikes always where we least expect it, where we are most vulnerable. Therefore, an alert society, an alert intelligence network, an alert military, all the dynamics that go into national security are very fundamental to this. Secretary Wolfowitz is right as Senator Graham said; we don't know what is yet to come. But we do know that what happened Tuesday was a very sophisticated, well coordinated, well financed well planned strike, the most unprecedented strike in the history of man -- this command and control terrorist act. We must expect that there is something behind this. We must, in all responsibility for what we have to do in order to protect the security of this country, assume there is something else out there. That is the only way that we can defend in the future, and I think we are taking those kinds of precautions.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Senator Hagel, when Margaret asked Secretary Wolfowitz about the projected action, she said are you concerned or how do you avoid provoking a backlash? I want to ask you specifically about, for example, the situation that the Pakistani President is in. Apparently Islamic militants have threatened a holy war if he does what he is being asked to do but he confronts possible reaction from the United States if he doesn't do it. What is your concern in this area? How do you deal with this?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL: It's a big concern. I think Secretary Wolfowitz addressed it rather well when he referenced his time as ambassador to Indonesia, which, as he noted, Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. We are going to need the cooperation of all Muslim nations. Islam is not about this kind of terror. That's very clear. We need the cooperation of all Muslim nations, and we are seeking the cooperation and we have received their cooperation and support. So there is a risk in this. We must be very careful how this is played. And I think Secretary Powell addressed some of that as well this afternoon in his news conference.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And, Senator Graham, how do you see the danger of a backlash?
SEN. BOB GRAHAM: I was in Pakistan two weeks ago, met with the President and other leading officials of that nation. They are in a very difficult situation. The Taliban started in Pakistan. There are parts of the Pakistani population that feel a strong affinity for the Taliban. Pakistan has been the United States ally for most of the period of the Cold War and was a major staging ground for our support in Afghanistan when we were attempting to eject the Soviet Union. I am optimistic that Pakistan will give us the kind of support such as for air over flights and maybe basing for some of our operations if, in fact, Afghanistan becomes a major target. I think this raises the issue that what we're facing now is a turning of the page of America. We are going to have a different relationship with the world than we have had in the past. We are going to have to approach terrorism with a greater degree of coordination, both domestically and internationally. We are going to have to make an investment in areas that have been allowed to degrade, particularly our human intelligence, our spies, our technology of eavesdropping, and our ability to analyze the tremendous amount of information that we collect. These are all going to be challenges that this new era will require.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Let me interrupt you right there because I wanted to know if some of that $40 billion you voted today will go to improve intelligence specifically and what specifically would you do first?
SEN. BOB GRAHAM: I hope so, and I anticipate under the broad category of increased national security, which was one of the priorities of the $40 billion, in my opinion, intelligence is one of the highest needs. We need to make an investment in our capacity to get a human being close to these terrorist groups so that we can have a better understanding of their capabilities and intentions before they commit another September 11. We need to invest in the new technologies such as computer-to-computer communication where much information of groups like bin Laden's is being transferred and we're having great difficulty intercepting that information. Every day we collect enough material through our various intelligence sources to fill the Library of Congress; now we've got to make an investment in being sure that we know which book within that library to read because that's the relevant book with the material that will give us the operational capability to avoid another September 11.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And briefly Senator Hagel, we're just about out of time. On the intelligence.
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL: Well, Senator Graham is exactly right. We have eroded our human intelligence capabilities significantly for the last 25 years, and I think as we get the facts here and understand more and more where the gaps are and what went wrong, it will lead us back much to that gap in human intelligence. We must build back that dynamic of our national security apparatus.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Senators Graham and Hagel, thanks for being with us.