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TERENCE SMITH: Since 1994, Jim Hall has presided over a period of unprecedented
activity for the National Transportation Safety Board. The Board is
responsible for determining the causes of accidents in all modes of
transportation, including air, rail, sea, and highway-- but air crashes
get the most attention. With Hall as chairman, the Board conducted the
two longest and most complicated investigations in the agency's history:
U.S. Air Flight 427, a Boeing 737 that crashed near Pittsburgh in 1994;
and TWA Flight 800, the Boeing 747 that crashed off Long Island, New
York, in 1996. Both investigations took more than four years to complete.
Two major aviation accidents remain unsolved: The October 1999 Egyptair
crash off the Atlantic Coast, and the January 2000 Alaska Airlines crash
off California. Jim Hall steps down as NTSB Chairman January 18. He
joins us now.
Welcome to the broadcast. We appreciate this chance to get a little
sense of these seven years, the experiences, what you learned from it.
And given those seven years, i wonder what you'll take away from the
experience, about aviation, about air safety, about the business, the
art, and the science of investigating airline crashes.
JIM HALL: Well, i guess i take away how important the work is. The horror
of an aviation accident... I can remember very well in Hibbing, Minnesota,
when i was dispatched to my first accident when I had first joined the
Board. Those images are etched with all of us, i believe, that have
this responsibility. And therefore, i think it really drives everyone
that works at the Board and those that are parties to an accident investigation,
to find the cause, to prevent this type of horror from being visited
on anyone else.
TERENCE SMITH: And in fact, under your tenure the NTSB took on the job
and the assignment of dealing with the families of victims, something
the airlines had dealt with before. Why did you do that? What was the
thinking behind it?
JIM HALL: Well, it came out of my experiences in Tennessee and Governor
McGruder's office. If you have a natural disaster, a tornado or a flood,
then you had the coordinated services of the state and the community
there to assist the victims. That structure was not in place for aviation
disasters that were very similar to, you know, to a catastrophic natural
disaster. So...
TERENCE SMITH: And the aftermath goes on for so long.
JIM HALL: Right. And there is a built-in feeling that you have to deal
with in terms of the families having to deal with the airline on which
their loved ones were traveling.
TERENCE SMITH: Let me ask you quickly about the two unresolved crashes
that we mentioned in the introduction here. The Egyptair crash: Where
do we stand on that?
JIM HALL: Well, of course, both of those are in the investigative process,
so we would not consider them unsolved as... but the Egyptair, the report
is being written. The Board found no mechanical problem with the aircraft,
however, the work is continuing on the preparation of the report. A
great number of tests were conducted. There was a great deal of assistance
and cooperation between both the American and the Egyptian authorities,
and i would hope that in the spring, that there would be a final report
that would, could be reviewed by the Egyptian authorities and then,
shortly thereafter, a report for the people.
TERENCE SMITH: What about the notion that was abroad... that the copilot
might have actually committed suicide, taken the plane down deliberately?
Any support for that?
JIM HALL: Well, i think the investigation is going to speak, you know,
to the facts that have been determined as a result of our work and our
analysis. And there may be a different point of view that is put forth
by some of the other parties to the investigation that have been expressed,
specifically by the Egyptian authorities. But all of that information,
all of those facts will be out there for the public to view. That is
our process, it's an open process. I think it's the strength of the
Board that we are there to gather the facts and to provide an analysis
of the facts, and all of our investigations are open to the public and
to public view.
TERENCE SMITH: The Alaska Airlines crash more recently, where does that
stand?
JIM HALL: Well, we just concluded a hearing that was chaired by member
John Hammersmith on that particular event. There is a lot of important
work looking at the jack screw, the design of that jack screw, the failure
modes of that jack screw.
TERENCE SMITH: That's in the rear assembly?
JIM HALL: In the rear assembly of the aircraft. Obviously, a number
of things looking at in terms of the procedures and things that occurred,
but again, both of those are active investigations and the Board's work
will speak at the time that the report is forwarded for final action
by the five Board members.
TERENCE SMITH: I think people wonder, and maybe you can explain, why
it takes so long to arrive at a definitive conclusion.
JIM HALL: Well, of course, aviation accidents are unique in that they
are almost always very high-speed, violent events in which attempting
to reconstruct what happened is a challenge. And the technology that
is on a modern aircraft of course, is vast and trying to be sure that
you are correct, that you have eliminated all the possibilities before
you come up with what the Board says is the probable cause, it's...
it has to be done in a responsible manner, and many times to do it responsibly
requires time.
TERENCE SMITH: Is there technology that could be introduced to airplanes
that would make it possible to arrive more easily at a conclusion after
a crash, I mean, a black box for the whole plane so to speak? You've
mentioned cameras in the cockpit.
JIM HALL: Well, i really think that we aren't making use of cameras
in the cockpit, both for the safety of the flight, as well as we have
seen with this recent British Airways Kenya accident, for the safety
of the crew operating the aircraft. There is no...
TERENCE SMITH: The pilots resist this?
JIM HALL: There is a resistance because of privacy, because they feel
the intrusive media society that we live in today would love to have
those last moments of a crew before the plane crashed for dramatic effect.
And they feel that, outside of the United States, as a result of the
use of a cockpit voice recorder transcript out of the Cali, Colombia,
crash, that they can't have the type of security to be sure that their
privacy is not invaded and their loved ones further suffer, because
of the media exploitation of those final seconds.
TERENCE SMITH: But you would like to see it? You think it would help?
JIM HALL: I think it's extremely important. I think that through encryption
and other ways, we can deal with those issues, but I think we shouldn't
see situations as we have seen in two or three investigations, where
there are things that could be easily answered by a video camera in
the cockpit that is restricted again just for those events when there
has been a fatal accident.
TERENCE SMITH: Have you come away from this feeling better about flying,
about the safety of aviation, or worse?
JIM HALL: Well, i feel much... I guess i feel better about aviation
safety, because I know how hard all of us work. And when i say all of
us, I'm talking, i'm including the industry, the FAA, the government
regulators. I only wish that the type of effort that goes into aviation
safety went into highway safety, and then we wouldn't lose 40,000 people
annually on our highways, and we wouldn't have, as we did in the decade
of the 1990s, 90,000 young people, age 20 and under, dying on our highways,
nine million injured. I don't feel good about that. I do feel good about
the efforts that are made each and every day in aviation safety.
TERENCE SMITH: That is great. Jim Hall, thank you very much and good
luck.
JIM HALL: Thank you very much. And thank you for y'all's responsible
attention on the investigations that have been conducted under my watch.
TERENCE SMITH: Okay.
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