SEARCHING FOR ANSWERS

November 2, 1999
		Authorities continue to search for the black boxes of EgyptAir 990 that crashed into the Atlantic on Sunday. Captain Sam Debow of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration discusses the latest developments.

Nov. 1, 1999: EgyptAir 990 crashes into the Atlantic Oct. 26, 1999: Payne Stewart's plane crashes in South Dakota July 19, 1999: John F. Kennedy Jr.'s plane crashes off Martha's Vineyard Sept. 7, 1998: The investigation of the SwissAir crash May 11, 1998: The FAA orders inspections of 737s   EgyptAir National Transportation Safety Board U.S. Embassy Cairo John F. Kennedy International Airport Aviation Safety Network Federal Aviation Administration	BETTY ANN BOWSER: Relatives of the passengers killed on EgyptAir Flight 990 arrived in Newport, Rhode Island, today. There, crash officials told them most of their loved ones' bodies may never be recovered intact from the crash scene. Off the coast of Massachusetts, in the search area, the weather worsened, with the coast guard expecting 14-foot seas, rain, and gale-force winds by late tonight. The Navy's salvage ship, the USS Grapple, arrived in Newport. Its side-scan sonar and sophisticated robotic underwater cameras will help find wreckage from the downed Boeing 767 at the bottom of the ocean. But officials of the National Transportation Safety Board have warned this recovery effort may be more daunting than two recent crash investigations, T.W.A. Flight 800 in 1996 and Swissair 111 off Nova Scotia last year. Those planes crashed in a little over 100 feet of water. Flight 990 rests in 270 feet of water. And in the earlier disasters, the water where divers searched was warm. In this case, Navy divers will be searching in water so deep and so cold they will only be able to make one dive every 24 hours in order to avoid decompression problems. And once they descend to the ocean floor, they will have poor visibility and be able to spend only about 35 minutes at a stretch on the bottom. But if and when the flight data recorders are recovered, they could provide more information about the crash than either the TWA or Swissair disasters. That's because one of the two so-called black boxes onboard the plane was equipped to monitor 55 different categories of data, including fuel flow, autopilot status and engine fires.
	Tracking by radar
	BETTY ANN BOWSER: Late this afternoon at a briefing, crash officials said two recovery ships have located what appear to be a large debris field and sounds from the plane's black boxes. CAPT. JAMES M. GRAHAM: The NOAA vessel Whiting and Mohawk, USNS Mohawk, both have found what appears to be debris fields and one of the two separate pingers that the USNS Mohawk has located appears to be in the center of one of those debris fields. USNS Mohawk has a special pinger locator device that she puts in the water, trails behind her. She has locate had appears to be both pingers that are associated with the two black boxes. Current weather conditions, though, have prevented the two ships from staying on station. They have retrieved their side-scan sonars. They have stopped their mapping operation, and they are seeking storm evasion. We've just learned that the on-scene commander has asked them to come on in to port here at Newport, so we anticipate both Mohawk and Whiting to arrive-- I do not know the exact time for you. They will be coming here to evade the storm. This is a very bad time of the year for weather, out where we are. We're 65 miles off, and the seas build quite rapidly, and the depth is somewhere between 250-270 feet out there. We do not know exactly the depth because we're still determining where that field is at. But this will impact how fast we can do operations or how long. What Grapple's mission, already number one, to recover those two black boxes. BETTY ANN BOWSER: Officials said if the weather improves, the USS Grapple could be in place looking for those crucial black boxes by late Thursday.
	Captain Sam DeBow
	JIM LEHRER: And to Gwen Ifill. GWEN IFILL: Joining me now is Captain Sam DeBow of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. NOAA's ship Whiting - as we just heard -- has been assisting today in the EgyptAir recovery mission. Captain DeBow, you were also the commander of a ship that was involved in the TWA recovery mission. Can you give us some sort of the sense about what the responsibility of the ship's recovery - responsibility is today? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: The NOAA units are there to assist the Navy and the NTSB in mapping the debris field and helping them with the recovery of the aircraft. GWEN IFILL: Describe for us what you mean when you say, mapping the debris field. We just heard that term used. CAPT. SAM DEBOW: The NOAA ship Whiting will be towing a side-scanning sonar array. It's a very sophisticated piece of equipment that it tows behind the vessel, and it's able to look out to both sides to about 150 meters on each side, and it's able to completely sonify and see what's on the seafloor. GWEN IFILL: We're talking about 270 feet of water perhaps, much deeper than in the TWA 800 crash. How much more difficult does it make this recovery mission? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: As Captain Graham said, from the United States Navy, it's going to be a very daunting task because it's so far from shore and the depth is about twice the depth that the TWA and Swissair and the JFK Jr. recovery operations. GWEN IFILL: And it's much colder water, which makes it more dangerous for the divers? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: I'm not familiar with that part of the operation. But I would think that the Navy has that covered.
	A mosaic of debris
	GWEN IFILL: So what exactly does the -- side-scanning sonar technology? Tell me what that is. CAPT. SAM DEBOW: It basically sends a sound signal out to the side of the towed array. It's got transducers that measure the distance. The signal goes out until it hits a hard object, and then it returns back. And we get a type of a mosaic out of it. The seafloor out there is a mud, hard sand seafloor, so if there is any manmade type of obstructions, you could easily distinguish that it was not normal, and it would be easy to find. GWEN IFILL: So, it's not murky, the water. You can actually get a pretty clear sense of what's down there? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: This doesn't have anything to do with a visual type of operation. GWEN IFILL: It's a sound? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: It's a sound detection operation. GWEN IFILL: So, when they talk about finding two pings today, they said they heard from both radar boxes. How significant is that? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: The United States Navy has a pinger array that they tow and they can isolate and listen for the acoustic pinger, which is attached to the black boxes. Apparently, from what we saw in the briefing, they have identified and isolated those pingers. They will then be able to go and send people down,an ROV, a remotely-operated vehicle down to go and try to get the black boxes out of the aircraft. GWEN IFILL: But probably more likely robots than people. CAPT. SAM DEBOW: That part of the operation, again, I'm not familiar with. I'm only involved with the sonar search operation for mapping the seafloor. GWEN IFILL: So, once you have a map of the seafloor, right now, obviously those vessels have been brought in because of the weather -- once you have a map, then what happens? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: They'll be able to define a debris field and then they'll be able mobilize the Grapple in order to start the recovery operation. GWEN IFILL: Today during the briefing, there was some discussion about exactly how you decide what a debris field is -- whether it's one, whether it's two? Is it the sheen on the water? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: The debris field will be isolated from the sonar records that they will analyze, and they will be able to come up with somewhat of a mosaic showing where on the seafloor a lot of this debris sits. It's kind of like a negative picture, if you will. GWEN IFILL: And debris can be anything? It can be pieces of a plane, it can be human remains? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: Most of the debris that they will find will be hard objects and manmade type of objects. That's what they'll be able to detect. GWEN IFILL: And is it the role of these vessels to retrieve these objects or just to map them and leave it for someone else to retrieve? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: The NOAA ship Whiting's mission is to assist in the mapping of the debris field. The United States Navy would be the one that will be taking over the operation. They are running the operation at the present time in order to start with the search and recovery operation. So they would take care of the rest of it. GWEN IFILL: And so after this is over, right now, your job is done. And the Navy takes over. Or is there a continuing role for NOAA? CAPT. SAM DEBOW: We are working cooperatively with the Navy. The Navy is in charge of the recovery operation. And we are just assisting the Navy in that operation. We will be there until... as long as they want us to be there. GWEN IFILL: Thank you very much, Captain DeBow.