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| "THE DECISION IS MINE"
December 2, 1997NEWSHOUR TRANSCRIPT |
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Attorney General Janet Reno announced she will not seek an independent counsel to investigate fund-raising phone calls made by President Clinton and Vice President Gore. Following excerpts of the attorney general's announcement, Margaret Warner will discuss the decision with Senators Arlen Specter (R-PA) and Richard Durbin (D-IL). Lastly, Jim Lehrer speaks with Paul Gigot and Tom Oliphant about the announcement.
JIM LEHRER: President Clinton issued a one-sentence written reaction to the Reno announcement: "The attorney general made her decision based on a careful review of the law and the facts, and that's as it should be." Here are some other reactions.
A RealAudio version of this segment is available.
NEWSHOUR LINKS:
October 29, 1997:
An administration lawyer explains why tapes of White House coffee were missed.
October 22, 1997:
The Senate committee investigating campaign finance abuses air tapes of White House coffees.
October 15, 1997:
Attorney General Janet Reno explains to a Senate committee why she extended her review of President Clinton's campaign finance activities.
October 14, 1997:
Attorney General Janet Reno announced that she was extending the investigation into fund-raising calls made by President Clinton.
October 9, 1997:
The House finally began hearing testimony from witnesses looking into the work of DNC donor "Charlie" Yah Lin Trie.
October 7, 1997:
After a contentious beginning, former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Harold Ickes began his testimony before the Senate.
September 11, 1997:
The highest ranking Clinton administration official, National Security Advisor Samuel Berger, testifies on White House screening procedures for donors and guests.
September 9, 1997:
Former DNC Chair Don Fowler defends the actions of the Democrats during the last election.
July 24, 1997:
Former RNC Chair Haley Barbour testifies before the committee about the fund-raising done by the GOP in 1996.
Browse the NewsHour's coverage of the campaign finance investigation.
OUTSIDE LINKS
Senate Governmental Affairs Committee.
U.S. Department of Justice
Opposing reactions to the Attorney General's decision.
VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Well, I think that it's obvious that people in the Justice Department are
going to continue to review any facts that they ought to review with respect to both political parties, but what we ought--what the rest of us ought to focus on is campaign finance reform. Now, even though this legal question has been-- involving the phone calls--calls has been put behind us once and for all, bear in mind that in the days and weeks and months ahead there will continue to be partisan attacks politically motivated. And just keep one thing in mind: the same people who are making the partisan attacks are the ones who are blocking campaign finance reform.
SEN. FRED THOMPSON, Chairman, Governmental Affairs Committee: I think what we're seeing here is an interpretation of the independent counsel statute that was certainly not contemplated by the
people who passed it. It's a very narrow legal interpretation. It is one that hamstrings the FBI and does not allow it really to investigate the way you would a mayor or city councilman, or any other public official. We're seeing it being used in a way that really renders it a nullity, in many instances where it was designed to cover situations. It is being used as a shield to prevent investigations in matters, instead of setting out a way by which a matter should be investigated. This is--this is all very troubling.
JIM LEHRER: More reaction from Congress now and to Margaret Warner.
MARGARET WARNER: And that reaction comes from two members of the Senate Committee investigating campaign fund-raising activities during the 1996 election: Republican Arlen Specter of
Pennsylvania and Democrat Richard Durbin of Illinois.
Your reaction, Senator Specter to the attorney general's decision.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER, (R) Pennsylvania: Margaret, it is not surprising that attorney general Reno declined to appoint independent counsel when her focus was so narrow just on the telephone calls. But she did not take up very hard evidence--and I'm not talking about newspaper headlines--what we had in the Governmental Affairs Committee--you have a written document coming
over from Democratic National Committee to President Clinton that identifies five individuals who are good for $100,000 each. The President has them in to the Oval Office, not his living quarters. It's a coffee. It's a fund-raising coffee. And within a few days four of the five give $100,000. She didn't take up the $300,000 that Tamaraz got. She doesn't take up the core issue of soft money being used for advocacy, advertisements. This is a little involved, but let me tell you about it. $27 million in soft money was spent by President Clinton on advocacy ads which Leon Panetta and Morris said were written by the President. When attorney general Reno was questioned by me personally before the Judiciary Committee last spring, she agreed that there was coordination. And the next step is if it's an advocacy ad, then it's a clear-cut violation of the Federal Election Commission.
Now, the ad said, written by President Clinton, President Clinton protected Medicare; President Clinton protected scholarship aid; Sen. Dole cut Medicare; Sen. Dole cut scholarship aid. And I asked her, "Isn't that an advocacy ad for the President?". And she declined to answer and said it ought to go to the Federal Election Commission. President Clinton, in an unguarded moment, on the tape said, when he didn't know he was saying something that we'd find out about, that they were advocacy ads; they did help him on his campaign.
MARGARET WARNER: Okay. Let me get Sen. Durbin's reaction now to attorney general Reno's decision.
"They've spent millions of dollars this year throttling this dead horse over and over again, and it's going nowhere."
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN, (D) Illinois: Well, I think she made the right decision. And I stood by her from the start. She's appointed six different independent counsels. Janet Reno is not above doing this. She appointed four different independent counsels to investigate cabinet officials, even the first family. She is a professional prosecutor, a straight shooter, and I'm sure it's a source of disappointment, even frustration, to my friend, Sen. Specter, and the other Republican leaders. They want to nail Bill Clinton. They want to nail Al Gore. They want to take this to the highest levels. They've spent millions of dollars this year throttling this dead horse over and over again, and it's going nowhere. What the American people want to see is campaign finance reform. They want a change in the law. They want us to clean up this system, instead of continuing this never ending drumbeat of an independent counsel.
MARGARET WARNER: Well, Sen. Durbin, what do you, what is your response to the point Senator Specter made that really the focus was too narrow here, just focusing on the telephone calls?
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Isn't it amazing, for 12 weeks in Sen. Thompson's committee we spent an inordinate amount of time looking at these very phone calls. This was the smoking gun. Here we had the President and Vice President at the telephone, so-called violations of the law. And then as we started to get all of the facts about who was called and why they were solicited and what kind of money was brought in more and more Republicans stepped forward and said, no, that isn't really the issue, let's look at something new. And now Sen. Specter talks about television ads and who wrote them. He knows as well as I do that the Republican National Committee was doing exactly the same thing for Sen. Dole. He was involved in the same kind of strategizing, and for us to stand up now and say that President Clinton did something unusual just defies the facts.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: Margaret, may I comment here?
MARGARET WARNER: Yes, please.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: I agree. I said publicly that Sen. Dole did the same thing. But that doesn't excuse President Clinton. It doesn't mean there ought not to be independent counsel. When Vice President Gore says the same people are against campaign finance reform, I'm for campaign finance reform, and voted for cloture on McCain-Feingold to cut off debate, but Sen. Dole did not raise money in the Oval Office, did not bring in five people identified by Democratic National Committee, and Sen. Dole did not see Mr. Menoff in the White House receiving line--Menoff--
MARGARET WARNER: Well, Sen. Specter--
"But she has a blind spot here... She's appointed by the President. She serves at the pleasure of the President."
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: There are just a lot more there, and it goes far, far beyond the telephone calls. Let me make a comment about attorney general Reno. I've known her for a long time, have great respect for her, and worked with her when she was district attorney of Dade County on my armed career criminal bill. But she has a blind spot here. And bear this in mind. She's appointed by the President. She serves at the pleasure of the President. I don't want to nail anybody, but when she was up for confirmation, she assured our Judiciary Committee that independent counsel was important because there's a conflict that the attorney general has, plus the appearance of conflict. And she just has not faced this broad, broad array looking and said on a people--on the telephone calls.
MARGARET WARNER: And why do you think that is--are you saying that she could have given it a much broader range?
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: Well, there is no doubt that she could have and she should have. Margaret, I asked her this question head on. You agree that if there's coordination in advocacy ads that the President has violated the federal election law. She agrees that there's coordination. I say, how about this ad, which extols President Clinton specifically and criticizes Sen. Dole, which is clearly something for the President's campaign, and the President, and this is a smoking gun when the President says so, and she will not deny that there are advocacy ads. And the next day, May 1st, I sent her a letter with eight commercials, all hard-hitting advocacy ads, and she sends them to the Federal Election Commission.
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Let me get Sen. Durbin's view of this.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: She hasn't addressed that. And that's long before the Governmental Affairs Committee.
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Sen. Durbin, do you think these other areas still bear further investigation? She said the investigation was continuing.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Absolutely. And I think the attorney general has hit the nail on the head. It isn't over. But every time the Republicans come up with a specific allegation, as they did with the telephone calls, she investigates it thoroughly, comes to a conclusion, and they say, oh, you missed it. It's another problem that you should look at.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: Dick, how about the advocacy ads?
Still a need for campaign finance reform.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Let me tell you, Arlen, we spent millions of dollars of taxpayers' money. We hired an army of lawyers for Sen. Thompson and our committee to investigate every aspect of this, brought in hundreds of witnesses, and when it was all said and done, there was nothing
there. The Republican National Committee is determined to make this the big issue. I will give Sen. Specter credit where it's due. He has favored campaign finance reform, but the Republican National Committee is opposed to it. They have, and the Republican leadership has done everything they can to stop changes in the law that will improve this system. That isn't good for this country. I hope when we get back next year that we can do something positive to make the whole system a lot cleaner in the next election.
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Sen. Specter, if many Republicans--and we don't know this yet--but if many Republicans end up being unhappy with this, as you are--many Republicans on the Hill, what, if anything, can and will Congress do about it?
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: Well, we may be able to go to the court, which appoints the independent counsel, and not withstanding the attorney general's refusal to request it, I think she has abused her
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Sen. Durbin, your reaction on first of all the Freeh memo and this report.
An unprecedented disagreement between the director of the FBI and the attorney general.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: I regret that this has become public knowledge. These sorts of things should be confidential when you consider the gravity of matters that are investigated by the FBI and
MARGARET WARNER: All right. And briefly, your comment, Sen. Durbin, about Sen. Specter's idea of perhaps going to the appointing court anyway and trying to override the attorney general and somehow get an independent counsel appointed.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Well, I think if Sen. Specter's suggesting a change in the law that would allow him to do that, we'd better debate. But I don't think the current law gives him or any member of the Senate Democrat or Republican the right to go to a court and ask for this independent counsel at this point.
MARGARET WARNER: All right.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: Margaret, just one final comment.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: I was DA of Philadelphia for eight years, and a prosecuting attorney has a lot of discretion but when that discretion is exceeded, the common law rule is the appointing court can supersede. We could get independent counsel from the court, and that's a recourse we may go to yet.
MARGARET WARNER: Quick answer, Sen. Durbin.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: It'll be a first if it happens, and I don't think it's going to happen.
MARGARET WARNER: All right, Sen. Durbin, Sen. Specter, thank you both very much.
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