THE INVESTIGATORS July 31, 1997 Transcript

The Online Explainers take your question on the investigation. The NewsHour's coverage of the Congressional Investigation. The inside stories on the political fight behind the public investigation. The investigation is big news in Washington, but how's it playing around the country. A closer look at the issues really under scrutiny by the Congress.

A RealAudio version of Kwame Holman's report on the hearing is available. KWAME HOLMAN: Terry Lenzer and Loren Berger are private investigators. Last year, their company, Investigative Group International, was hired by President Clinton's legal trust to check out $639,000 in checks and money orders brought to the trust by Charlie Yah Lin Trie. This week, the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee has heard testimony that Trie, a former Little Rock restaurateur and self-described friend of the President, made $220,000 in questionable contributions to the Democratic National Committee, money since returned. Today, the committee heard that the money Trie collected for the President's Legal Defense Fund also was returned after IGI traced much of the money to a woman named Ching Hai and to members of the Taiwan-based Buddhist sect that bears her name. MICHAEL MADIGAN, Majority Counsel: Give us your general conclusion, if you would, based upon your talking to these various people, as to what your view was. LOREN BERGER, Investigative Group International: My view was simply that some of the contributors did not appear to have the economic wherewithal to make $1,000 contributions. Some of the money orders and cashiers' checks looked suspect in terms of similar handwriting on these documents, despite the fact they were signed by many different names. And thirdly, I learned from talking with people who are familiar with us, some at Ching Hai's organization, that there may have been some coercion involved in her general practices of raising money from her followers simply because of the level of influence that she has on her group. KWAME HOLMAN: But Berger could provide little as to what might have motivated Ching Hai to involved herself or members of her sect in donating to President Clinton's legal fund; nor could she provide any insight as to what might have motivated Charlie Trie. SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN, (D) Connecticut: But I want to ask you if you, in your investigation, have any idea of why Mr. Trie went to the Suma Ching Hai's sect to ask them to make these contributions. LOREN BERGER: Excuse me. We weren't asked to examine that particular issue. SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: So you have no evidence on that? LOREN BERGER: No. SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN: Okay. Based on what you know about the Suma Ching Hai sect, what you did investigate, do you have any idea about why "they" would have contributed money or wanted to, to the legal expense trust? LOREN BERGER: Well, the sensible answer of many of the contributors we spoke with was that there was strong support for President Clinton as "a man of peace," and just a very favorable view of the President and the willingness to help him in his legal problems. KWAME HOLMAN: But later, Zhi Hua Dong, one of the Buddhist sect members, described the 1996 meeting at a New York City hotel at which sect leader Ching Hai solicited donations from members and new initiatives. ZHI HUA DONG, Ching Hai Meditation Society: I would say it's more accurate to say that Master encouraged the people there to help Clinton by contributing up to $1,000. MAJORITY COUNSEL: Okay. So you feel like it was more of encouragement, is that accurate? ZHI HUA DONG: yes. MAJORITY COUNSEL: All right. And I believe you said in your deposition, okay, so now we can help your American citizens if you agree we can contribute up to $1,000 to the legal defense fund, right? ZHI HUA DONG: That's right. MAJORITY COUNSEL: Okay. KWAME HOLMAN: But for a time today the focus of committee members' questions shifted away from Charlie Trie and on to Terry Lenzer, who counts the Democratic National Committee as one of his clients. Republican Arlen Specter quoted from a Newsweek Magazine exclusive detailing how Lenzer's group wrote an outline for a proposed investigation of fellow Republican John Nickles. Nickles is a member of the Senate committee, and he sat patiently while Specter read from the Newsweek story. SEN. ARLEN SPECTER, (R) Pennsylvania: How did Lenzer come to target Nickles? The answer goes back to an effort by Oklahoma's Cheyenne-Arapaho Indians to win return of their homelands snatched by the government a century ago. During the '96 campaign Democratic Party officials offered to help them in exchange for a $107,000 contribution. Embarrassed when the incident came to light, the DNC returned the money. And then last spring a business associate of the tribes urged them to meet with Cody Shearer, described to them as Washington's "insider," and a longtime friend of President Clinton. In May, Shearer advised the tribe the best way to advance their cause was to dig up dirt on Nickles. Like most Oklahoma legislators, Nickles opposes returning the land, which sits beneath a Department of Agriculture research station popular with local farmers and businessmen. Schearer said he knew just the man for the job, his old pal, Lenzer, who asked for up to $17,000? Was the purpose of this investigative work as described by Periscope Newsweek to dig up dirt on Sen. Nickles? TERRY LENZER, Private Investigator: No. SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: What was the purpose? TERRY LENZER: The people at that meeting made an allegation that they believe Sen. Nickles' decision to--which they had been in conflict with him over I understood several years--was in part motivated by his interest in protecting the oil and gas industry, now repeating triple hearsay, so I'm not asserting there's any accuracy to this or not, and what they wanted us to pursue was whether or not we could identify any gratuity or benefit that the oil and gas industry had provided to Sen. Nickles or any member of his family. KWAME HOLMAN: Nickles had to wait his turn but finally got to question Lenzer, himself. SEN. DON NICKLES, (R) Oklahoma: You mentioned that you haven't done an investigation on me, but you knew my wife's maiden name; you knew the fact that I had a janitor service, Don Nickles Professional Cleaning Service, so evidently you did a little investigating. Not too many people--I dare to say that anybody in this group knew that I had a professional cleaning service. Evidently, you did some investigation, is that correct? TERRY LENZER: I didn't do any investigation, Senator. If they did any investigation, it would have been a database run, and I don't know if that occurred or not. SEN. DON NICKLES: Well, I just happened to see on your memo, and it says, first phase of the investigation, it talks about Don Nickles' professional cleaning service. My wife's name is Linda L. Morrison. You know, I don't really mind you messing with me, but I do mind you messing with my family. And you said you haven't done an investigation, but you have my wife's name. You said you have the possession of the names of my immediate family. So that tells me you've done some investigation, is that correct? TERRY LENZER: Senator, I didn't write this. I don't know where those come from. I don't know if we were given that by the group, or whether we obtained that information independently from a database. If I could just say this, Senator, we didn't mean to suggest to you or to the tribe that we were doing anything other than what we would do in a standard, due diligence investigation into some allegation relating to an individual, be it a Senator or citizen, a corporation or state government. KWAME HOLMAN: This afternoon, with Congress all but into its August recess, Chairman Fred Thompson adjourned the committee without indicating when it will holds its next hearing.

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