THOMAS: Mr. Perot, what proof do you have that Saddam Hussein was told that he could have the -- do you have any actual proof or are you asking for the papers? And also, I really came in with another question. What is this penchant you have to investigate everyone? Are those accusations correct -- investigating your staff, investigating the leaders of the grassroots movement, investigating associates of your family?
PEROT: No. They're not correct and if you look at my life, until I got involved in this effort, I was one person. And then after the Republican dirty tricks group got through with me I'm another person, which I consider an absolutely sick operation. And all of you in the press know exactly what I'm talking about.
They investigated every single one of my children. They investigated my wife. They interviewed all of my children's friends from childhood on. They went to extraordinary sick lengths, and I just found it amusing that they would take 2 or 3 cases where I was involved in lawsuits and would engage an investigator -- the lawyers would engage an investigator, which is common. And the only difference between me and any other businessman that has the range of businesses that I have is I haven't had that many lawsuits.
So that's just another one of those little fruit-loopy things they make up to try to, instead of facing issues, to try to redefine a person that's running against them. This goes on night and day. I will do everything I can, if I get up there, to make dirty tricks a thing of the past. One of the 2 groups has raised it to an art form. It's a sick art form.
Now, let's go back to Saddam Hussein. We gave Ambassador Glaspie written instructions. That's a fact. We've never let the Congress and the Foreign Relations, Senate Intelligence Committees see them. That's a fact. Ambassador Glaspie did a lot of talking right after July 25 and that's a fact and it's in all the newspapers. And you pull all of it at once and read it and I did, and it's pretty clear what she and Kelly and the other key guys around that thing thought they were doing.
Then at the end of the war, when they had to go testify about it, their stories are a total disconnect from what they said in August, September and October.
So I say this is very simple. Saddam Hussein released a tape, as you know, claiming it was a transcript of their meeting, where she said we will not become involved in your border dispute and, in effect, you can take the northern part of the country. We later said no, that's not true. I said well, this is simple. What were her written instructions? We guard those like the secrets of the atomic bomb, literally.
Now, I say whose country is this? This is ours. Who will get hurt if we lay those papers on the table? The worst thing is, again, it's a mistake. Nobody did any of this with evil intent. I just object to the fact that we cover up and hide things. Whether it's Iran-contra, Iraq-gate or you name it, it's a steady stream.
LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have 1 minute.
CLINTON: Let's take Mr. Bush for the moment at his word -- he's right, we don't have any evidence at least that our government did tell Saddam Hussein he could have that part of Kuwait. And let's give him the credit he deserves for organizing Operation Desert Storm and Desert Shield. It was a remarkable event.
But let's look at where I think the real mistake was made. In 1988 when the war between Iraq and Iran ended, we knew Saddam Hussein was a tyrant, we had dealt with him because he was against Iran -- the enemy of my enemy maybe is my friend.
All right, the war's over; we know he's dropping mustard gas on his own people, we know he's threatened to incinerate half of Israel. Several government departments -- several -- had information that he was converting our aid to military purposes and trying to develop weapons of mass destruction. But in late '89 the president signed a secret policy saying we were going to continue to try to improve relations with him, and we sent him some sort of communication on the eve of his invasion of Kuwait that we still wanted better relations.
So I think what was wrong -- I give credit where credit is due -- but the responsibility was in coddling Saddam Hussein when there was no reason to do it and when people at high levels in our government knew he was trying to do things that were outrageous.
LEHRER: Mr. President, you have a moment -- a minute, I'm sorry.
BUSH: Well, it's awful easy when you're dealing with 90-90 hindsight. We did try to bring Saddam Hussein into the family of nations; he did have the 4th largest army. All our Arab allies out there thought we ought to do just exactly that. And when he crossed the line, I stood up and looked into the camera and I said: This aggression will not stand. And we formed a historic coalition, and we brought him down, and we destroyed the 4th largest army. And the battlefield was searched, and there wasn't one single iota of evidence that any U.S. weapons were on that battlefield. And the nuclear capability has been searched by the United Nations, and there hasn't been one single scintilla of evidence that there's any U.S. technology involved in it.
And what you're seeing on all this Iraqgate is a bunch of people who were wrong on the war trying to cover their necks and try to do a little revisionism. And I cannot let that stand, because it isn't true.
Yes, we had grain credits for Iraq, and there isn't any evidence that those grain credits were diverted into weaponry -- none, none whatsoever.
And so I just have to say, it's fine. You can't stand there, Governor Clinton, and say, well, I think I'd have been -- I have supported the minority, let sanctions work or wish it would go away -- but I would have voted with the majority. Come on, that's not leadership.
LEHRER: All right, the next question goes to Governor Clinton, and Gene Gibbons will ask it. Gene?
GIBBONS: Governor, an important aspect of leadership is, of course, anticipating problems. During the 1988 campaign there was little or not mention of the savings and loan crisis that has cost the American people billions and billions of dollars. Now there are rumblings that a commercial bank crisis is on the horizon.
Is there such a problem, sir? If so, how bad is it and what will it cost to clean it up?
CLINTON: Gene, there is a problem in the sense that there are some problem banks, and on December 19th new regulations will go into effect which will in effect give the government the responsibility to close some banks that are not technically insolvent but that are plainly in trouble.
On the other hand, I don't think that we have any reason to believe that the dimensions of this crisis are anywhere near as great as the savings and loan crisis. The mistake that both parties made in Washington with the S&L business was deregulating them without proper capital requirements, proper oversight and regulation, proper training of the executives. Many people predicted what happened, and it was a disaster.
The banking system in this country is fundamentally sound with some weak banks. I think that our goal ought to be first of all not to politicize it, not to frighten people; secondly to say that we have to enforce the law in 2 ways.
We don't want to overreact, as the federal regulators have in my judgment, on good banks so that they've created credit crunches, that is, they have made our recession worse in the last couple of years -- but we do want to act prudently with the banks that are in trouble.
We also want to say that insofar as is humanly possible the banking industry itself should pay for the cost of any bank failures; the taxpayers should not. And that will be my policy.
And I believe if we have a good balanced approach, we can get the good banks loaning money again, end the credit crunch, have proper regulation on the ones that are in trouble, and not overreact. It is a serious problem, but I don't see it as the kind of terrible, terrible problem that the S&L problem was.
LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
BUSH: Well, I don't believe it would be appropriate for a president to suggest that the banking system is not sound. It is sound. There are some problem banks out there. But what we need is financial reform; we need some real financial reform, banking reform, legislation. And I have proposed that. And when I am re-elected, I believe one of the first things ought to be to press a new Congress not beholden to the old ways to pass financial reform legislation that modernizes the banking system, doesn't put a lot of inhibitions on it, and protects the depositors through keeping the FDIC sound.
But I think that -- I just was watching some of the proceedings of the American Bankers Assn, and I think the general feeling is most of the banks are sound, certainly there's no comparison here between what happened to the S&Ls and where the banks stand right now, in my view.
LEHRER: Mr. Perot, 1 minute.
PEROT: Well, nobody's gotten into the real issue yet on the savings and loan again -- nobody's got a business background, I guess. The whole problem came up in 1984. The president of the U.S. was told officially it was a $20-billion problem. These crooks -- now, Willie Sutton would have gone to own a savings and loan rather than rob banks, because he robbed banks because that's where the money is; owning a savings and loan is where the money was.
Now, in 1984 they were told. I believe the vice president was in charge of deregulation. Nobody touched that tar baby till the day after election in 1988 because they were flooding both parties with crooked PAC money, and it was in many cases stolen PAC money. Now, you and I never got a ride on a lot of these yachts and fancy things it bought, but you and I are paying for it. And they buried it till right after the election.
Now, if you believe The Washington Post and you believe this extensive study that's been done -- and I'm reading it -- right after election day this year they're going to hit us with a hundred banks, it will be a $100-billion problem. Now, if that's true, just tell me now. I'm grownup, I can deal with it, I'll pay my share. But just tell me now; don't bury until after the election twice. I say that to both political parties.
The people deserve that since we have to pick up the tab; you got the PAC money, we'll pay the tab. Just tell us.
LEHRER: All right, Mr. Perot, the next question -- we're going into a new round here on a category just called differences, and the question goes to you, Mr. Perot, and Gene will ask it. Gene?
GIBBONS: Mr. Perot, aside from the deficit, what government policy or policies do you really want to do something about? What really sticks in your craw about conditions in this country -- beside the deficit -- that you would want to fix as president?
PEROT: The debt and the deficit. Well, if you watched my television show the other night, you saw it. And if you watch it Thursday, Friday, Saturday this week, you'll get more. A shameless plug there, Mr. President.
But in a nutshell we've got to reform our government or we won't get anything done. We have a government that doesn't work. All these specific examples I'm giving tonight -- if you had a business like that, they'd be leading you away and boarding up the doors. We have a government that doesn't work. It's supposed to come from the people, it comes at the people. The people need to take their government back. You've got to reform Congress, they've got to be servants of the people again; you've got to reform the White House. We've got to turn this thing around. And it's a long list of specific items.
And I've covered it again and again in print and on television. But very specifically the key thing is to turn the government back to the people and take it away from the special interests and have people go to Washington to serve. Who can give themselves a 23% pay raise anywhere in the world except Congress? Who would have 1200 airplanes worth 2 billion a year just to fly around in? I don't have a free reserved parking place at Natl Airport, why should my servants? I don't have an indoor gymnasium and an indoor tennis and an indoor every other thing they can think of; I don't have a place where I can go make free TV to send to my constituents to try to brainwash them to elect me the next time.
And I'm paying for all that for those guys. I'm going to be running an ad pretty soon that shows they promised us they were going to hold the line on spending at the tax and budget summit, and I'm going to show how much they've increased this little stuff they do for themselves. And it is silly putty, folks, and the American people have had enough of it.
Step one, if I get up there, we're going to clean that up. You say, how can I get Congress to do that? I'll have millions of people at my shoulder, shoulder to shoulder with me, and we will see it done work speed -- because it's wrong. We've turned the country upside down.
LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have one minute. Governor?
CLINTON: I would just point out, on the point Mr. Perot made, I agree that we need to cut spending in Congress. I've called for a 25% reduction in congressional staffs and expenditures. But the White House staff increased its expenditures by considerably more than Congress has in the last 4 years under the Bush administration, and Congress has actually spent a billion dollars less than President Bush asked them to spend. Now, when you out-spend Congress you're really swinging.
That, however, is not my only passion. The real problem in this country is that most people are working hard and falling farther behind. My passion is to pass a jobs program and get incomes up with an investment incentive program to grow jobs in the private sector, to waste less public money and invest more, to control health care costs and provide for affordable health care for all Americans and to make sure we've got the best trained workforce in the world. That is my passion.
We've gotta get this country growing again and this economy strong again or we can't bring down the deficit. Economic growth is the key to the future of this country.
LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
BUSH: On government reform?
BUSH: Government reform?
LEHRER: Yes, exactly. Well, to respond to the subject that Mr. Perot mentioned.
BUSH: Well, how about this for a government reform policy? Reduce the White House staff by a 3rd after or at the same time the Congress does the same thing for their staff. Term limits for members of the U.S. Congress. Give the government back to the people. Let's do it that way. The president has term limits. Let's limit some of these guys sitting out there tonight.
Term limits. And then how about a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution? Forty-3 -- more than that -- states have it, I believe. Let's try that. And you want to do something about all this extra spending that concerns Mr. Perot and me? Okay. How about a line item veto? Forty-three governors have that. And give it to the president, and if the Congress isn't big enough to do it, let the president have a shot at this excess spending. A line item veto. That means you can take a line and cut out some of the pork out of a meaningful bill.
Governor Clinton keeps hitting me on vetoing legislation. Well, that's the only protection the taxpayer has against some of these reckless pork programs up there, and I'd rather be able to just line it right out of there and get on about passing some good stuff but leave out the garbage. Line item veto -- there's a good reform program for you.
LEHRER: All right.
Next question goes to Governor Clinton. You have 2 minutes, Governor, and Susan will ask it.
ROOK: Governor Clinton, you said that you will raise taxes on the rich, people with incomes of $200,000 a year or higher. A lot of people are saying that you will have to go lower than that, much lower. Will you make a pledge tonight below which, an income level that you will not go below? I'm looking for numbers, sir, not just a concept.
CLINTON: My plan -- you can read my plan. My plan says that we want to raise marginal incomes on family incomes above $200,000 from 31 to 36 percent, that we want to ask foreign corporations simply to pay the same percentage of taxes on their income that American corporations play (sic) in America, that we want to use that money to provide over $100 billion in tax cuts for investment in new plant and equipment, for small business, for new technologies, and for middle class tax relief.
Now, I'll tell ya this. I will not raise taxes on the middle class to pay for these programs. If the money does not come in there to pay for these programs, we will cut other government spending or we will slow down the phase-in of the programs. I am not gonna raise taxes on the middle class to pay for these programs.
Now furthermore, I am not gonna tell you "read my lips" on anything because I cannot foresee what emergencies might develop in this country. And the president said never, never, never would he raise taxes in New Jersey, and within a day Marlin Fitzwater, his spokesman, said now, that's not a promise.
So I think even he has learned that you can't say "read my lips" because you can't know what emergencies might come up. But I can tell you this. I'm not gonna raise taxes on middle class Americans to pay for the programs I've recommended. Read my plan.
And you know how you can trust me about that? Because you know, in the first debate, Mr. Bush made some news. He'd just said Jim Baker was going to be secretary of state and in the first debate he said no, now he's gonna be responsible for domestic economic policy.
Well, I'll tell ya. I'll make some news in the 3rd debate. The person responsible for domestic economic policy in my administration will be Bill Clinton. I'm gonna make those decisions, and I won't raise taxes on the middle class to pay for my programs.
LEHRER: President Bush, you have one minute.
BUSH: That's what worries me --
(Laughter and applause)
-- that he's going to be responsible. He's going to do -- and he would do for the U.S. what he's done to Arkansas. He would do for the U.S. what he's done to Arkansas. We do not want to be the lowest of the low. We are not a nation in decline.
We are a rising nation.
Now, my problem is -- I heard what he said. He said I want to take it from the rich, raise $150 billion from the rich. To get it, to get $150 billion in new taxes, you got to go down to the guy that's making $36,600. And if you want to pay for the rest of his plan, all the other spending programs, you're going to sock it to the working man.
So when you hear "tax the rich," Mr. and Mrs. America, watch your wallet. Lock your wallet because he's coming right after you just like Jimmy Carter did and just like you're going to get -- you're going to end up with interest rates at 21%, and you're going to have inflation going through the roof.
Yes, we're having tough times, but we do not need to go back to the failed policies of the past, when you had a Democratic president and a spendthrift Democratic Congress.
LEHRER: Mr. Perot.
CLINTON: Jim, you permitted Mr. Bush to break the rules, he said, to defend the honor of the country. What about the honor of my state? We rank first in the country in job growth, we got the lowest spending, state and local, in the country, and the 2nd lowest tax burden. And the difference between Arkansas and the U.S. is that we're going in the right direction and this country's going in the wrong direction. And I have to defend the honor of my state.
LEHRER: We've got a wash, according to my calculation. We have a wash. And we go to Mr. Perot for one minute. In other words, it's a violation of the rule, that's what I meant, Mr. Perot.
PEROT: So I'm the only one that's untarnished at this point?
LEHRER: That's right. You're clear.
(Laughter and applause)
PEROT: I'm sure I'll do it before it's over.
Key thing here, see, we all come up with images. Images don't fix anything. I think -- you know, I'm starting to understand it. You stay around this long enough, you think about -- if you talk about it in Washington, you think you did it. If you've been on television about it, you think you did it.
What we need is people to stop talking and start doing.
Now, our real problem here is they both have plans that will not work. The Wall Street Journal said your numbers don't add up. And you can take it out on charts, you look at all the studies the different groups have done, you go out 4, 5, 6 years, we're still drifting along with a huge deficit.
So let's come back to harsh reality, and what I -- you know, everybody says, gee, Perot, you're tough. I'm saying, well, this is not as tough as World War II and it's not as tough as the revolution. And it's fair, shared sacrifice to do the right thing for our country and for our children. And it will be fun if we all work together to do it.
LEHRER: All right. This is the last question, and it goes to President Bush for a 2-minute answer. And it will be asked by Helen.
THOMAS: Mr. President, why have you dropped so dramatically in the leadership polls, from the high 80s to the 40s? And you have said that you will do anything you have to do to get reelected. What can you do in 2 weeks to win reelection?
BUSH: Well, I think the answer to why the drop, I think, has been the economy in the doldrums. Why I'll win is I think I have the best plan of the 3 of us up here to do something about it. Mine does not grow the government, it does not invest, have government invest.
It says we need to do better in terms of stimulating private business. We got a big philosophical difference here tonight between one who thinks the government can do all these things through tax and spend, and one who thinks it ought to go the other way.
And so I believe the answer is, I'm going to win it because I'm getting into focus my agenda for America's renewal, and also I think that Governor Clinton's had pretty much of a free ride. On looking specifically at the Arkansas record -- he keeps criticizing us, criticizing me, I'm the incumbent, fine. But he's an incumbent, and we've got to look at all the facts. They're almost at the bottom on every single category. We can't do that to the American people.
And then, Helen, I really believe where people are going to ask this question about trust, because I do think there's a pattern by Governor Clinton of saying one thing to please one group, and then trying to please another group. And I think that pattern is a dangerous thing to suggest would work for the Oval Office. It doesn't work that way when you're president.
Truman is right. The buck stops there. And you have to make decisions even when it's against your own interest. And I've done that. It's against my political interest to say go ahead and go along with the tax increase, but I did what I thought was right at the time. So I think people are going to be looking for trust and experience.
And then, I mentioned it the other night, I think if there's a crisis, people are going to say, well, George Bush has taken us through some tough crises, and we trust him to do that.
And so I'll make the appeal on a wide array of issues. Also I got a philosophical difference. I got to watch the clock here. I don't think we're a declining nation. The whole world has had economic problems. We're doing better than a lot of the countries in the world. And we're going to lead the way out of this economic recession across this world and economic slowdown here at home.
LEHRER: Mr. Perot, you have --
BUSH: That's why I think I'll win.
LEHRER: Mr. Perot -- sorry, excuse me, sir. Mr. Perot, you have one minute.
PEROT: I'm the last one, right?
LEHRER: No, Governor Clinton has a minute after you. Then we have the closing statements.
PEROT: One minute after you.
PEROT: I'm totally focussed on the fact that we may have bank failures and nobody answered it. I'm totally focussed on the fact that we are still evading the issue of the Glaspie papers. I'm totally focussed on the fact that we still could have enterprise zones, according to both parties, but we don't. So I am still focussed on gridlock, I guess.
And I am also focussed on the fact that isn't it a paradox that we have the highest productivity in our workforce in the industrialized world and at the same time have the largest trade deficit, and at the same time rank behind 9 other nations in what we pay our most productive people in the world, and we're losing whole industries overseas.
Now, can't somebody agree with me that the government is breaking business's legs with these trade agreements? They're breaking business's legs in a number of different ways. We have an adversarial relationship that's destroying jobs and sending them overseas while we have the finest workers in the world.
Keep in mind a factory worker has nothing to do with anything except putting it together on the factory floor. It's our obligation to make sure that we give him the finest products in the world to put together and we don't break his legs in the process.
LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
CLINTON: I really can't believe Mr. Bush is still trying to make trust an issue after "read my lips" and 15 million new jobs and embracing what he called voodoo economics and embracing an export enhancement program for farmers he threatened to veto and going all around the country giving out money in programs that he once opposed.
But the main thing is he still didn't get it, from what he said the other night to that fine woman on our program, the 209 people in Richmond. They don't want us talking about each other. They want us to talk about the problems of this country.
I don't think he'll be reelected because trickle down economics is a failure and he's offering more of it, and what he's saying about my program is just not true. Look at the Republicans that have endorsed me. High tech executives in Northern California. Look at the 24 generals and admirals, retired, that have endorsed me, including the deputy commander of Desert Storm. Look at Sarah Brady, Jim Brady's wife, President Reagan's press secretary, who endorsed me because he knuckled under to the NRA and wouldn't fight for the Brady Bill.
We've got a broad-based coalition that goes beyond party because I am going to change this country and make it better, with the help of the American people.
LEHRER: All right. Now, that was the final question and answer and we now go to the closing statements. Each candidate will have up to 2 minutes. The order was determined by a drawing. Governor Clinton, you're first. Governor.
CLINTON: First, I'd like to thank the commission and my opponents for participating in these debates and making them possible. I think the real winners of the debates were the American people.
I was especially moved in Richmond a few days ago when 209 of our fellow citizens got to ask us questions. They went a long way toward reclaiming this election for the American people and taking their country back.
I want to say, since this is the last time I'll be on a platform with my opponents, that even though I disagree with Mr. Perot on how fast we can reduce the deficit and how much we can increase taxes on the middle class, I really respect what he's done in this campaign to bring the issue of deficit reduction to our attention.
I'd like to say to Mr. Bush, even though I've got profound differences with him, I do honor his service to our country. I appreciate his efforts and I wish him well. I just believe it's time to change.
I offer a new approach. It's not trickle down economics. It's been tried for 12 years and it's failed. More people are working harder for less, 100,000 people a month losing their health insurance, unemployment going up, our economy slowing down. We can do better.
And it's not tax and spend economics. It's invest and grow, put our people first, control health care costs and provide basic health care to all Americans, have an education system 2nd to none and revitalize the private economy.
That is my commitment to you. It is the kind of change that can open up a whole new world of opportunities to America as we enter the last decade of this century and move towards the 21st century. I want a country where people who work hard and play by the rules are rewarded, not punished. I want a country where people are coming together across the lines of race and region and income. I know we can do better.
It won't take miracles and it won't happen overnight, but we can do much, much better if we have the courage to change. Thank you very much.
LEHRER: President Bush, your closing statement, sir.
BUSH: Three weeks from now -- 2 weeks from tomorrow, America goes to the polls and you're going to have to decide who you want to lead this country to economic recovery. On jobs -- that's the number one priority, and I believe my program for stimulating investment, encouraging small business, brand-new approach to education, strengthening the American family, and, yes, creating more exports is the way to go. I don't believe in trickle-down government, I don't believe in larger taxes and larger government spending.
On foreign affairs, some think it's irrelevant. I believe it's not. We're living in an interconnected world. The whole world is having economic difficulties. The U.S. is doing better than a lot. But we've got to do even better. And if a crisis comes up, I ask who has the judgment and the experience and, yes, the character to make the right decision?
And, lastly, the other night on character Governor Clinton said it's not the character of the president but the character of the presidency. I couldn't disagree more. Horace Greeley said the only thing that endures is character. And I think it was Justice Black who talked about great nations, like great men, must keep their word.
And so the question is, who will safeguard this nation, who will safeguard our people and our children? I need your support, I ask for your support. And may God bless the U.S. of America.
LEHRER: Mr. Perot, your closing statement, sir.
PEROT: To the millions of fine decent people who did the unthinkable and took their country back in their own hands and put me on the ballot, let me pledge to you that tonight is just the beginning. These next 2 weeks we will be going full steam ahead to make sure that you get a voice and that you get your country back.
This Thursday night on ABC from 8:30 to 9, Friday night on NBC from 8 to 8:30, and Saturday night on CBS from 8 to 8:30, we'll be down in the trenches under the hood working on fixin' the old car to get it back on the road.
Now, the question is, can we win? Absolutely we can win, because it's your country. Question really is who do you want in the White House. It's that simple.
Now, you got to stop letting these people tell you who to vote for, you got to stop letting these folks in the press tell you you're throwing your vote away -- you got to start using your own head.
Then the question is, can we govern? I love that one. The "we" is you and me. You bet your hat we can govern because we will be in there together and we will figure out what to do, and you won't tolerate gridlock, you won't tolerate endless meandering and wandering around, and you won't tolerate non-performance. And, believe me, anybody that knows me understands I have a very low tolerance for non-performance also. Together we can get anything done.
The president mentioned that you need the right person in a crisis. Well, folks, we got one, and that one is a financial crisis. Pretty simply, who's the best-qualified person up here on the stage to create jobs? Make your decision and vote on November the 3rd. I suggest you might consider somebody who's created jobs. Who's the best person to manage money? I suggest you pick a person who's successfully managed money. Who's the best person to get results and not talk? Look at the record and make your decision.
And, finally, who would you give your pension fund and your savings account to manage? And, last one, who would you ask to be the trustee of your estate and take care of your children if something happened to you?
Finally, to you students up there -- God bless you, I'm doing this for you: I want you to have the American dream.
To the American people, I'm doing this because I love you. That's it. Thank you very much.
LEHRER: All right, thank you, Mr. Perot; thank you, Mr. President; thank you, Governor Clinton -- for being with us tonight and in the previous debates. Thank you to the panel. The only thing that is left to be said is, from Michigan State University in East Lansing, I'm Jim Lehrer, thank you and good night.
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