
JIM LEHRER: Now to what some voters thought about last night. Elizabeth
Brackett assembled a group in Manchester, New Hampshire to watch and react
to the debate.
ELIZABETH
BRACKETT: This is the weekend for fall colors in New Hampshire, they say,
a sure sign that winter and the general election are just around the corner,
Still, it's hard to believe that it has been eight months since George
Bush and Michael Dukakis won critical primary victories here. We went
back where it all began to get a sense of how New Hampshire's voters are
now reacting to the candidates. Bush does have a solid lead in the polls
here, despite the fact that Dukakis is a next door neighbor.
In Manchester, Suzanne and Alan Cleveland, a lawyer, both lean toward
George Bush. On the other hand, retired social worker Alice Krasner calls
herself a liberal and likes Dukakis. Farmer Paul Knox is afraid Dukakis
is not in tune with the problems on the family farm and leans toward Bush.
Mailman Steve Vaillancourt doesn't like the negative campaigning by either
candidate, but he is a registered Democrat and favors Dukakis. Elias Ashooh,
a stockbroker, likes what he hears from Bush. He fears a Dukakis Presidency
would mean too many government programs.
Emergency room doctor Sandy King had hoped for more issues and less rhetoric
from the campaign. He remains undecided. Michelle Foley too is undecided.
This mother of two says neither candidate has provided answers to her
concerns of day care, education and child care. Last night, the group
settled in to watch the debate. Each brought their own expectations for
and prior assessments of the candidates.
GOV. DUKAKIS: If the Vice President of the United States thinks that
Robert Bork was an outstanding appointment, that is a very good reason
for voting for Mike Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen on the 8th of November.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: The feeling was before tonight's debate
that since Michael Dukakis was still a little behind in most of the national
polls that he really had to score a knockout tonight to get back in the
race. Do you think he did that?
ALICE
KRASNER, Retired Social Worker: I don't know if it was a knockout but
I certainly thought he did very well. I'm very pleased for all the points
that he brought up. I thought they were very pertinent and I agree with
the issues. I was kind of surprised that he didn't say he would like another
debate because I understand he would have liked it. You remember in the
beginning when they had their negotiations. So I thought he was very restrained
about that.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Alan.
ALAN CLEVELAND: I think he not only failed to give a knockout. I don't
even think he won on points. That was just my perception. I mean, it was
pretty clear at the end of the Bentsen/Quayle debate
that Bentsen was wiping the floor with Quayle, but I think that on points,
I think probably Bush did better.
DR. SANDY KING: He was basically in charge tonight. I had the feeling.
Dukakis was very much secondary to Bush. Bush was acting like the host
at a party and Dukakis --
ALICE KRASNER: I'm sorry. I didn't get that feeling. I must object.
ELIZABETH
BRACKETT: Go ahead.
ALICE KRASNER: Well, I just didn't feel -- I felt that they were both
more relaxed and there was more kindness between them when it was suggested
that perhaps the publicity and everything has been so negative so far,
couldn't they make the effort, and they both said that they would like
to.
ELIAS ASHOOH: I think George Bush won it just on consistency. The fact
is he did not try to change horses in midstream and I think Michael Dukakis
was put in a position where he felt he needed a knockout tonight and I
think he was going for it before the bell rang, and I don't think he got
it.
MARGARET WARNER, Newsweek Magazine: Governor, you won the first debate
on intellect and yet, you lost it on heart. Do you think that a President
has to be likable to be an effective leader?
GOV. DUKAKIS: I won the Democratic nomination in 51 separate contests.
I think I'm a reasonably likable guy.
ELIAS
ASHOOH: I think it was a good response, but I just don't think he's a
man that's comfortable with being warm.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Did you feel any more comfortable with him than you
did before?
ELIAS ASHOOH: I've never felt comfortable with him. Just the way he came
across tonight, he came across as making the effort, but it looked like
an uncomfortable position to take.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Suzanne.
SUZANNE CLEVELAND: I think he's rather a private person. I don't think
that being on television is going to break that little wall of privacy
that he has within himself.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Does that bother you?
SUZANNE CLEVELAND: No, not really, because I think a person deserves
their private life, whether they're a public figure or not.
ELIZABETH
BRACKETT: He did say, I don't want necessarily to be liked, I'd like to
be liked, but what I want to be is President, and that's a serious endeavor.
Did that make sense to anybody?
MICHELE FOLEY: Definitely.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Michele.
MICHELE FOLEY: Sure, being President is a serious job, obviously, you
know, without being concerned about if everybody likes me. It's if I get
the job done, I think people will like him. I don't think it matters the
other way.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Did you warm up to him more yourself after that statement?
MICHELE FOLEY: No, no, no. I think, you know, I like his points and everything,
but he's not a warm person.
STEVE VAILLANCOURT: I think George Bush came across as very likable again,
but I'm not for George Bush, and if the American people are going to vote
for somebody because they happen to like him as a person, I think they're
going to get exactly what they deserve.
DR. SANDY KING: I'm a Democrat. I'd like to vote for Dukakis, but he
really turns me off.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Why?
DR.
SANDY KING: He's so humorless and rigid and inflexible and he's right,
completely right. Bush I think is a much easier person, a little more
flexible, much stupider, which worries me. But you know, I have to go
between the nice guy and the smart one. You know, who do I pick? I don't
know.
ALICE KRASNER: Always take the smart one, goodness.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: They did talk a lot about negative campaigning tonight
and they both sort of tried to disavow themselves of any negative campaigning.
do you think either one was very effective at that?
ELIAS ASHOOH: No. They were both pretty negative. Both campaigns have
been pretty bad.
PAUL KNOX: The first real negative things that were high profile items
were at the Democratic National Convention.
ALICE
KRASNER: That's true.
PAUL KNOX: And that was a muddy devil. And I think they set themselves
up for this and I think anything they've gotten at this point they've
had coming.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: So when Bush said that tonight, you thought that
was effective?
PAUL KNOX: Yes, very much so. They didn't start it. If the Republican
Convention had been first, I'm sure they'd have thrown the first mud.
ELIAS ASHOOH: There were two instances tonight where I got a hard edge
in George Bush's voice, and it was both times that he mentioned how Dukakis
said that a fish rots from the head down, and the second time I could
hear his voice echo in the hall, and it was almost like there was little
twinge of righteous indignation that he felt.
STEVE VAILLANCOURT: But don't you think his programmers said, go into
that debate and show us some righteous self-indignation
and use that line about the "rotting fish", don't you think
that was all programmed?
ELIAS
ASHOOH: I think it's hard to program everything that goes into a 90 minute
debate.
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Did you get a better sense of the relative positions
of each candidate, be it liberal, conservative, or on the issues? Did
they explain themselves any better on the issues?
DR. SANDY KING: It's all on perceptions. There is no focal point of this
election that clearly decides one from the other. They're both, you're
going on, well, I think Bush is conservative, so I think he'll continue
this way; I'm pretty sure Dukakis is liberal, so that means a certain
thing. It's all how you perceive what they are. They don't give anything
specific. This thousand points of light, or two hundred and forty million
points of light, it's all a bunch of baloney and means nothing. So basically
you go in and you decide whether you like, you know, Poppy Bush, the nice
wealthy Connecticut man who's somewhat conservative, but he's probably
not that conservative, or Dukakis, who's a nice Greek immigrant with a
lot of money too, who's probably kind of liberal, but not that liberal,
and which, basically which one could you tolerate listening to on the
television for the next four years.
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