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Debating Our Destiny

Bush-Dukakis
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The Second 1988 Debate:
Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV

The 1988 Campaign & Debates

An Interview with President Bush

An Interview with Governor Dukakis

An Interview with Vice President Quayle

NewsHour Coverage of the 1988 Debates

 



JIM LEHRER: Now to what some voters thought about last night. Elizabeth Brackett assembled a group in Manchester, New Hampshire to watch and react to the debate.

New HampshireELIZABETH BRACKETT: This is the weekend for fall colors in New Hampshire, they say, a sure sign that winter and the general election are just around the corner, Still, it's hard to believe that it has been eight months since George Bush and Michael Dukakis won critical primary victories here. We went back where it all began to get a sense of how New Hampshire's voters are now reacting to the candidates. Bush does have a solid lead in the polls here, despite the fact that Dukakis is a next door neighbor.

In Manchester, Suzanne and Alan Cleveland, a lawyer, both lean toward George Bush. On the other hand, retired social worker Alice Krasner calls herself a liberal and likes Dukakis. Farmer Paul Knox is afraid Dukakis is not in tune with the problems on the family farm and leans toward Bush. Mailman Steve Vaillancourt doesn't like the negative campaigning by either candidate, but he is a registered Democrat and favors Dukakis. Elias Ashooh, a stockbroker, likes what he hears from Bush. He fears a Dukakis Presidency would mean too many government Sandy Kingprograms. Emergency room doctor Sandy King had hoped for more issues and less rhetoric from the campaign. He remains undecided. Michelle Foley too is undecided. This mother of two says neither candidate has provided answers to her concerns of day care, education and child care. Last night, the group settled in to watch the debate. Each brought their own expectations for and prior assessments of the candidates.

GOV. DUKAKIS: If the Vice President of the United States thinks that Robert Bork was an outstanding appointment, that is a very good reason for voting for Mike Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen on the 8th of November.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: The feeling was before tonight's debate that since Michael Dukakis was still a little behind in most of the national polls that he really had to score a knockout tonight to get back in the race. Do you think he did that?

Alice KrasnerALICE KRASNER, Retired Social Worker: I don't know if it was a knockout but I certainly thought he did very well. I'm very pleased for all the points that he brought up. I thought they were very pertinent and I agree with the issues. I was kind of surprised that he didn't say he would like another debate because I understand he would have liked it. You remember in the beginning when they had their negotiations. So I thought he was very restrained about that.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Alan.

ALAN CLEVELAND: I think he not only failed to give a knockout. I don't even think he won on points. That was just my perception. I mean, it was pretty clear at the end of the Bentsen/Quayle debate that Bentsen was wiping the floor with Quayle, but I think that on points, I think probably Bush did better.

DR. SANDY KING: He was basically in charge tonight. I had the feeling. Dukakis was very much secondary to Bush. Bush was acting like the host at a party and Dukakis --

ALICE KRASNER: I'm sorry. I didn't get that feeling. I must object.

Elizabeth BrackettELIZABETH BRACKETT: Go ahead.

ALICE KRASNER: Well, I just didn't feel -- I felt that they were both more relaxed and there was more kindness between them when it was suggested that perhaps the publicity and everything has been so negative so far, couldn't they make the effort, and they both said that they would like to.

ELIAS ASHOOH: I think George Bush won it just on consistency. The fact is he did not try to change horses in midstream and I think Michael Dukakis was put in a position where he felt he needed a knockout tonight and I think he was going for it before the bell rang, and I don't think he got it.

MARGARET WARNER, Newsweek Magazine: Governor, you won the first debate on intellect and yet, you lost it on heart. Do you think that a President has to be likable to be an effective leader?

GOV. DUKAKIS: I won the Democratic nomination in 51 separate contests. I think I'm a reasonably likable guy.

Elias AshoohELIAS ASHOOH: I think it was a good response, but I just don't think he's a man that's comfortable with being warm.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Did you feel any more comfortable with him than you did before?

ELIAS ASHOOH: I've never felt comfortable with him. Just the way he came across tonight, he came across as making the effort, but it looked like an uncomfortable position to take.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Suzanne.

SUZANNE CLEVELAND: I think he's rather a private person. I don't think that being on television is going to break that little wall of privacy that he has within himself.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Does that bother you?

SUZANNE CLEVELAND: No, not really, because I think a person deserves their private life, whether they're a public figure or not.

Elizabeth BrackettELIZABETH BRACKETT: He did say, I don't want necessarily to be liked, I'd like to be liked, but what I want to be is President, and that's a serious endeavor. Did that make sense to anybody?

MICHELE FOLEY: Definitely.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Michele.

MICHELE FOLEY: Sure, being President is a serious job, obviously, you know, without being concerned about if everybody likes me. It's if I get the job done, I think people will like him. I don't think it matters the other way.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Did you warm up to him more yourself after that statement?

MICHELE FOLEY: No, no, no. I think, you know, I like his points and everything, but he's not a warm person.

STEVE VAILLANCOURT: I think George Bush came across as very likable again, but I'm not for George Bush, and if the American people are going to vote for somebody because they happen to like him as a person, I think they're going to get exactly what they deserve.

DR. SANDY KING: I'm a Democrat. I'd like to vote for Dukakis, but he really turns me off.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Why?

Sandy KingDR. SANDY KING: He's so humorless and rigid and inflexible and he's right, completely right. Bush I think is a much easier person, a little more flexible, much stupider, which worries me. But you know, I have to go between the nice guy and the smart one. You know, who do I pick? I don't know.

ALICE KRASNER: Always take the smart one, goodness.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: They did talk a lot about negative campaigning tonight and they both sort of tried to disavow themselves of any negative campaigning. do you think either one was very effective at that?

ELIAS ASHOOH: No. They were both pretty negative. Both campaigns have been pretty bad.

PAUL KNOX: The first real negative things that were high profile items were at the Democratic National Convention.

Alice KrasnerALICE KRASNER: That's true.

PAUL KNOX: And that was a muddy devil. And I think they set themselves up for this and I think anything they've gotten at this point they've had coming.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: So when Bush said that tonight, you thought that was effective?

PAUL KNOX: Yes, very much so. They didn't start it. If the Republican Convention had been first, I'm sure they'd have thrown the first mud.

ELIAS ASHOOH: There were two instances tonight where I got a hard edge in George Bush's voice, and it was both times that he mentioned how Dukakis said that a fish rots from the head down, and the second time I could hear his voice echo in the hall, and it was almost like there was little twinge of righteous indignation that he felt.

STEVE VAILLANCOURT: But don't you think his programmers said, go into that debate and show us some righteous self-indignation and use that line about the "rotting fish", don't you think that was all programmed?

Elias AshoohELIAS ASHOOH: I think it's hard to program everything that goes into a 90 minute debate.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Did you get a better sense of the relative positions of each candidate, be it liberal, conservative, or on the issues? Did they explain themselves any better on the issues?

DR. SANDY KING: It's all on perceptions. There is no focal point of this election that clearly decides one from the other. They're both, you're going on, well, I think Bush is conservative, so I think he'll continue this way; I'm pretty sure Dukakis is liberal, so that means a certain thing. It's all how you perceive what they are. They don't give anything specific. This thousand points of light, or two hundred and forty million points of light, it's all a bunch of baloney and means nothing. So basically you go in and you decide whether you like, you know, Poppy Bush, the nice wealthy Connecticut man who's somewhat conservative, but he's probably not that conservative, or Dukakis, who's a nice Greek immigrant with a lot of money too, who's probably kind of liberal, but not that liberal, and which, basically which one could you tolerate listening to on the television for the next four years.



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