Debate Night: Congress & Education
October 15, 2000

GWEN IFILL: Our first segment will be about the economy. The Republicans get first crack at it starting with Senator Hagel. Senator, we are in the middle of a big standoff between the White House and Congress over education. The president wants to spend more money on hiring new teachers and spend more money on school construction. Republicans want to send the money back to the states in the form of block grants. Explain your position and defend it.

SENATOR HAGEL: Well, first as my friend J.C. Watts indicated, over the last six years under the responsible stewardship of the Republican Party, the Congress has not only be able to balance the budget and work with the president do that, but in fact help produce surpluses. Those surpluses have now given us some options. Education is at the top of the list. When you look at our budgets and what we have spent on education since the Republicans have controlled Congress, they have been rather significant. We will have a major increase in the education budget this year for FY 2001.

So as we look at the resources that we are very much aware of and committed to to help our school districts across the country, we also are acutely aware of the fact, or at least the Republicans believe this, that education is a local issue. The control of education is really better left to the parents, to the teachers, the administrators, to the school boards. Those are the people who have the most to win or lose in education. Yes they need the resources and we intend to continue to help find those resources for them.

But the other part of this is that we're not actually funding what we have mandated these local school districted to do over the last 25 years. For example, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, the IDEA, for disability children who need help, special attention and resources for their education. In that mandate, we said years ago that the federal government would come up with 40% of the funding. We've never coming up with even 10% of the funding for that. Yet the Democrats want to continue to add on more specifically tailored focused education programs not giving the flexibility to the school boards and the teachers and the parents.

GWEN IFILL: Senator Reid, you're opportunity -- I promised I would get back to you.

SENATOR REID: Thank you. This is what the American people are seeing all over America. The Republicans are trying to take credit for what the Democrats have done. All over America they're talking about a prescription benefit copied from us. They are willing to talk about it but not do much about it. And the economic plan that J.C. lined out is absolutely in line with what near doing all over the country. What they you have to realize is that two years before J.C. Watts came to Washington, President Clinton came forward with his budget deficit reduction plan that was passed without a single Republican in the House or Senate. Al Gore had to break the tie. As a result of that this country has been put on an economic plan of recovery that's never been seen before in this country.

GWEN IFILL: We'd like to talk about the economy at length later but about education…

SENATOR REID: Well, we talked about the economy and I'll be happy to talk about education. Education is also an issue that they're trying to talk like Democrats. The fact is that we have tried in this Congress, to have a debate on education. They have refused to allow us to debate. In the Senate, we have spent four days in two years talking about education. Why haven't we spent more? They won't let us. We simply have not been able to debate this issue in the Congress.

Now what we want is we think we need additional money for class size reduction. We believe that we need more teachers. We believe there should be school construction. Take Nevada as an example. We have to build in Las Vegas a new school every month to keep up with the growth. In America, it's not like Nevada. In America the average public school is over 40 years old. What the Republicans are trying to do is try to forget the fact that over 90% of our kids are educated in the public schools. We believe that their policies hurt public schools. And we believe that what we should do is have a full debate on this. I hope next Congress will be able to do it. This Congress, we have been stymied and unable to do that.

GWEN IFILL: Congressman Watts, what does Congress and the federal government have to say about this, seven cents of every school dollar comes from the federal government.

CONGRESSMAN WATTS: Bingo. The debate in education in Washington is not about dollars. It's about policy. And I agree with Harry. We put -- this Republican majority, we put $2 billion more in education this year than we did last year by a 10% increase. The policy is where the differences are. The Democrats would say let Washington determine how dollars should be spent. We would say allow local school districts to determine how those dollars should be spent. And if they want to hire more teachers, that's fine with us, but maybe they don't want to hire more teachers. Maybe they want to train the teachers that they already have. Maybe they want to wire the schools for the Internet. Let local school districts, teachers and administrators who know the names of our kids and grandkids, let them make that determination on how those dollars should be spent. That's what this battle is about. It's not about dollars. It's about policy.

GWEN IFILL: Would you like to respond to that Congressman Bonior?

CONGRESSMAN BONIOR: I'd love to respond to it. Number one, when you talk about education, you have to do it within the context of the economy. If you are going to spend, as George Bush wants to spend, and as the Republican wanted to spend last year, $1.8-$1.9 trillion over the next ten years on tax cuts that go primarily to the wealthiest, you won't have room for education, for health care and for all the other needs of the country. We believe that 100,000 teachers are important because it helps reduce class size. You get a better quality of education for those young people, whose minds are like sponges, especially in the first three years, if you have smaller class sizes. We want to get that down to one teacher per 17 students.

We believe in after school programs. Life has changed since perhaps some of us were little tots on the play field. We could go home and someone would be there. There isn't someone home for a lot of kids when they go home today. I was a former probation officer and worked with delinquents and between the hours of 3:00 and 7:00, that's when you have problems -- alcohol, teen pregnancy and drugs. You keep the schools open after school, the young people have a place to go, they get to be mentored work with adults, they get to use the labs, the athletic facilities. We want to increase that. They want to cut that budget. They are $3.5 billion below where we are in education today and that's the fight in the next week before we adjourn in Congress.

GWEN IFILL: And how does the fight stand right now, Senator Hagel?

SENATOR HAGEL: The fact is as both J.C. Watts and I indicated, the billions of additional dollars going into secondary and elementary education under this Republican-led Congress are very clear. Again it is a policy of who do you trust here. Do you want to give the school districts more mandates and more direction from Washington or are you going to allow the teachers and the school districts and the parents to have a say over where they want to apply those resources. That's the big difference. It's a legitimate difference. And I understand that that's what this business should be about; options, possibilities. Let the American people choose.

GWEN IFILL: How does the Congressional Republican support for school vouchers square with what you're saying?

SENATOR HAGEL: The Republicans are not afraid of options and alternatives. And allowing people who are trapped in areas where the school districts are not as good as we see in some other states or school districts. We're not afraid of competition. We think children, all children, deserve, no matter where they live or who their parents are or what their socioeconomic status in life is, they deserve options, the best teachers and the best schools. Just because we pour more money, and we are pouring more money into this, that that's the answer. The answer should be innovation. The answer should be to inspire the teachers more and help the teachers more and to help give them the tools they need. It's about parents; it's about our society. It's all the dynamics of a complete environment that educate our young people.

GWEN IFILL: Senator Reid?

SENATOR REID: This is almost amusing. Remember the Republicans shut down the government because we wanted to spend more money on education. Now the gains we've had in the last couple of years have come as a result of the direct intervention of the President of the United States stopping this Republican-controlled Congress from cutting programs like education. The reason we were able to get something for education last year is because we hung out to get that.

Now we have these gentlemen taking credit for what we did, we fought for as a result of President Clinton. They talk about local control. This is a Trojan horse. Nobody disputes local control. We don't want to take local control of schools away from schools. But what we believe is that it's important that we do something about issues that they won't talk about. Let's talk about school construction. We believe in school construction. We believe -- Las Vegas, Clark County school district, last year paid over $110 million in interest on the borrowing they had to do for the schools. That's not a penny of principle. We have problems with education all over the country. Let's do something about the teachers that we need. And vouchers -- that is a cruel hoax because even under their program, they'll pay 25% of the cost of a private school. What are the people going to do? They think they're going to get something and only 25% of the cost of a private school is what a local kid who is in a ghetto will get? His parents will get to put him in a private school? This is foolishness. What we should do is recognize that we need to do something to make public education in America better. That's what this debate is about. And I don't have any dispute with J.C. Watts or Chuck Hagel's heart. Their hearts are in the right place but their policies are bad.

GWEN IFILL: Congressman Watts?

CONGRESSMAN WATTS: Gwen let me tell you. Education is first, last and always about a choice and the way you get strong education, I'll repeat it again: local control, parental involvement, high academic standards. It is about policy. They want the dollars to go to the department of education that can't pass an audit. Hasn't passed an audit in the last two years. They can tell us where they want to take us but they can't tell us where they've been.

We want the dollars to go to local school districts, local teachers, local administrators. I don't understand-- It is fascinating. We talk about tax policy, what Governor Bush wants to do, and I think the tax policy, and of course we'll get into that later so I'll focus on education. But it is about local control. Getting the dollars out of Washington to local school districts into the classroom. They want to keep it in Washington. We want to send it home to local school districts. That's what the fight is about. It's not about dollars.

GWEN IFILL: Last word Congressman Bonior.

CONGRESSMAN BONIOR: Let me say to start with that the Republican leaders in the House filed a bill to eliminate the department of education. They have continually come under us in funding for education. Of course local control is important. As others have said 93% of the money for school comes from the local and state governments. We understand that. But I can tell you this: the local officials in Michigan and around the country would love for us to have a school construction program so they can relieve some of the property taxes that people are paying in their hometowns. They would like to see more teachers. I have 60 more teachers as a result of the 100,000-teacher program in my district. That has helped reduce class size and helped with quality education. Of course we need new innovative ideas and experimenting all the time. I agree with Chuck on that but vouchers as Harry has said 90% of our children go to the public schools. 90% of our children go to the public schools and our resources ought to be devoted to them.