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| PATH TO POWER | |
 August 3, 2000 
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MARGARET WARNER: For three perspectives on George W. Bush and how he
came to this point, we turn to Governor Edward Schafer of North Dakota,
who has known Bush since their late teens. He was first elected in 1992,
two years before Bush was elected governor of Texas; Bill Minutaglio,
a reporter with the Dallas Morning News, and author of a
Bush biography entitled "First Son: George W. Bush and the Bush
Family Dynasty;" and Alphonso Jackson, a Dallas utility company
executive and longtime family friend. He's also serving as assistant
secretary of this convention. Welcome, gentlemen. GOV. EDWARD SCHAFER, (R) North Dakota: Interesting. We had a conversation about that. We decided to keep our stories to ourselves because nobody ever thought I would be elected governor either. MARGARET WARNER: I mean, from what I understand, he was pretty uninterested in politics. GOV. EDWARD SCHAFER: You know, interestingly enough, we both had grown up with political families and you get to go off to college and you go... you can muster up some courage to go vote once in a while. But that's about it. I think both of us had a period of dip - and he did especially. It took a while to build back up and get into the public service mode. MARGARET WARNER: His sister, Dora Bush, said yesterday that her brother was definitely the late bloomer in the family. That's a fair assessment? BILL MINUTAGLIO, Bush Biographer: Yeah, I think so. I mean, George W. has talked about some of his young and irresponsible years; leash- tugging years I think is a good way to put it. There were moments in his life when he didn't seem so interested in politics. I maintained, though, as I looked at his life that politics was always there for him, certainly an option in this family, a very political family. He said, "I wanted to be Willie Mays when I grew up, but I couldn't hit the curve ball." I think quietly he was very interested still in politics. MARGARET WARNER: But why was it-- and you've written this, and many others have-- that in the family it was always assumed that Jeb Bush would be the one who would be the political star? BILL MINUTAGLIO: I think that's often - the family will tell you - perhaps that's now a creation of the media in some ways now - wishful thinking. Jeb has been credited with being a more cerebral, more intellectual guy. He's a Phi Beta Kappa, graduated in College, Georgia; W. was a "c" student at Yale. So I think the sense was that perhaps he had a little more of the gravity or intellectual heft to go on to the White House. Other people say that George W. certainly is as competitive and smart when he needs to be smart. MARGARET WARNER: You first met George W. Bush in 1988 during his father's campaign. ALPHONSO JACKSON, Bush Family Friend: Yes, I did. MARGARET WARNER: Did you see the political bug in him then yet in terms of himself? ALPHONSO JACKSON: No. Initially when I met him, I looked at him, I think I perceived him more like John Wayne. MARGARET WARNER: In what way? ALPHONSO JACKSON: In the sense that he was clearly confident in himself and you could see it. The key to it is that I didn't see any political inclination at that point in time for George W. Bush. It was only in when I moved back home to Dallas that we began to talk and I suggested that I thought he would be a great candidate for governor, and at the time that was '89, and he said no. Later on, we began to talk about two years later, and I realized that he had the abilities clearly to be a tremendous governor. That was my perception. He always had great leadership skills and had great compassion. MARGARET WARNER: Meaning what? ALPHONSO JACKSON: I watched him; I watched him very much when he was running the Rangers. I spent a lot of time with him. I saw how he interacted with people and his relationships with people. Governor Bush is just a phenomenal people person. So I said to him, just off the top of my head, I said, "you should be governor." He said, "no, no, no." And then about '91, '92, we were talking again. We had a standing six-week luncheon every week that we never missed. We ate six weeks religiously. So we would always talk about things because our schedule was so hectic. But I was convinced, at that point in time, that he had all the skills. MARGARET WARNER: So what do you... when do you think he started to think seriously that this might be his future and who do you think brought him around to it? GOV. EDWARD SCHAFER: Well, you know, I don't know what came through his mind. You know, he ran for Congress at an early age. MARGARET WARNER: Yes, he did - '78. GOV. EDWARD SCHAFER: So it wasn't like he wasn't involved in politics already; he did have some interest there. I had a very interesting conversation with him about three years ago, you know, when he was starting to think about it, and he really - he really talked a lot about why am I doing this - am I doing it to vindicate my dad; am I doing it because everybody expects me to do it; and I doing it for myself; you know, where is Laura and girls fit into this whole thing? Very thoughtful question. And I think in the end he had a lot of question about it. He fell down to the point of saying, you know, I want to go forward. I think I can lead this country. I want to do my public service and give back to this country what it's given to me. It was an honest and thoughtful decision. He didn't just jump into this thing. It was a long-term decision to step forward in this leadership role. ALPHONSO JACKSON: Governor Schafer, I think that's a very important point to make. I happened to be at the mansion the Christmas party that Lieutenant Governor Bob Bullock made the statement that he'd like to introduce the next President of the United States. That was three years ago. MARGARET WARNER: Bullock, who was a Democrat. ALPHONSO JACKSON: Who was a Democrat. MARGARET WARNER: But he's going to speak tonight. ALPHONSO JACKSON: The room was absolutely silent. We were stunned. I don't even think the governor or Laura ever envisioned that statement being made. At the end of it, I happened to be at the end of the steps and George was visibly-- visibly-- mesmerized with what he said. And he said, "I mean it. You're going to be the next President of the United States." That's a powerful statement coming from a Democrat. BILL MINUTAGLIO: I could add to that too. In one of governor... Lieutenant Governor Bullock's last interviews when I spoke with him he was rally almost on his deathbed. He said I had a feeling though when I spoke to George W. that he was dreaming a little bit -- dreaming in the sense that maybe I could follow my dad some day, not that he was lusting after the job or coveting it but Lieutenant Governor Bullock's assessment was that it would be natural for any first son to think that maybe I could follow my father's path some day. MARGARET WARNER: But for many sons that's also a tremendous weight to be the son of a famous political father. BILL MINUTAGLIO: Absolutely. I view George W. Bush in almost a Shakespearean way. He might scoff at me for that assessment. This is a guy who is inheriting an enormous legacy. He's had to wrestle with how to handle it, how to capitalize on it frankly if you're interested in going on further in politics but how to distance himself from it to show that he is his own man. Clearly tonight this is his coming-out party. MARGARET WARNER: It's been said of him and some different profiles he was also always highly competitive but not ambitious. He wasn't someone with a grand master plan for his life. In fact he's said that about himself, hasn't he? GOV. EDWARD SCHAFER: It's true. And I think a good example of that was when he came into our governors' organization, all of a sudden he's there and he burst through the door - MARGARET WARNER: This was '94. GOV. EDWARD SCHAFER: This was in 1994, 'newly elected governor. All of us are full of ourselves when we get there because we've just won an election and the people have supported our ideas and thoughts. We're used to that kind of a situation. He came in with a lot of good ideas, a lot of nervous energy, wants to get things done. He doesn't like to sit around the table and chat. It's like let's go, go, go. But it wasn't long when everybody was calling on him like, you know, he made some good points but he kind of envelopes you. He drags you in with him. All of a sudden you're out-- without even knowing it-- marching down the path with George W. Bush. He's a pretty amazing individual in that way. MARGARET WARNER: You are nodding your head. You agree? I mean that's the style. That's the guy you know. ALPHONSO JACKSON: I agree. I'll tell you that I probably had more in-depth conversations with him before he was governor than a lot of people. He is a tremendous organizer. He's very inclusive. George W. is a person I think -- once this country comes to know him - that they will love and ingratiate because he has a very quick mind. MARGARET WARNER: All right. Gentlemen, we have to leave it there. Thank you all three very much. |
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