Impeachment: A NewsHour Special -- Impeachment Update -- November 20, 1998



	IMPEACHMENT UPDATE

November 20, 1998

Kwame Holman has an update on the impeachment story, including Sam Dash's decision to resign from the office of the independent counsel.

JIM LEHRER: Kwame Holman begins our coverage of the impeachment story.

KWAME HOLMAN: Several times during yesterday's House Judiciary Committee hearing the name of Sam Dash came up. Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr first mentioned Dash during his opening statement.

KENNETH STARR: The office has also benefited from the assistance of Sam Dash, chief counsel of the Senate Watergate Committee, who has offered great wisdom during my tenure.

KWAME HOLMAN: Starr used Dash's name again to defend himself against what Committee Democrats called an adversarial tone in Starr's impeachment report.

KENNETH STARR: We were guided by Sam Dash, who had very strong views on that, who expressed those views, and who felt that we had to use certain kinds of language that I think -

KWAME HOLMAN: But Democrats also used Dash's name against Starr.

REP. MARTY MEEHAN: Mr. Starr, your own ethics adviser, Sam Dash, is on the record stating that while your conduct in many of these respects violated no technical legal ethics rules, that conduct, and I quote "does have an odor to it."

JIM LEHRER: Today, however, Dash's name became more than a mention. Seen in this file video leaving the federal courthouse with Starr, Dash this morning suddenly resigned as Starr's ethics adviser. In a letter delivered to the independent counsel, Dash said he was leaving to protest Starr's decision to appear before the Judiciary Committee yesterday "and serve as an aggressive advocate for the proposition that the evidence in your referral demonstrates that the President committed impeachable offenses." Dash said Starr violated his obligations as an independent counsel by intruding on the impeachment power of the House of Representatives. Starr reacted this morning outside his home in Virginia.

KENNETH STARR: Let me say this. Sam Dash is a man of total principle. And I love Sam Dash. And I think he did feel strongly that while we had properly submitted the referral to Congress that it was wrong for me to go forward and to testify yesterday in the way that, as he saw it, that I did, and I love Sam, I respect him, I admire him, I think he's a total man of principle. I have really profited from his judgment. And I think as a matter of principle this was so important to him that he felt that the right thing to do was to take the action that he has taken. And I admire that. I think this country does well when people say I feel strongly about something, and I'm going to stand up for it.

KWAME HOLMAN: Starr spent more than 12 hours before the committee yesterday and faced the most pointed questions late in the evening. After observing the hearing most of the day, David Kendall, President Clinton's personal lawyer, got his opportunity to question Starr shortly after 8:30. Kendall spent an hour questioning Starr and did so at a rapid pace.

DAVID KENDALL: Mr. Starr, I take it there would be no disagreement that you, as a United States prosecutor, are under a legal obligation to protect the secrecy of the grand jury process?

KENNETH STARR: Yes. And there's no dispute whatsoever.

DAVID KENDALL: No dispute. And you say also that you've reminded the staff that leaks are utterly intolerable. Am I reading that correctly?

KENNETH STARR: Yes. You are reading it correctly.

DAVID KENDALL: And has anybody been fired from your office, Mr. Starr, for leaking?

KENNETH STARR: No. Because I don't believe anyone has leaked grand jury information, Mr. Kendall.

DAVID KENDALL: In fact, Judge Johnson had before heard 24 submissions from us as to what might be leaks from the independent counsel's office, did she not?

KENNETH STARR: And we're in the process of litigating those, David, as you know.

DAVID KENDALL: And how many did she find there was prima facae reason to believe that your office had committed these leaks?

KENNETH STARR: And I think you know the answer to that - under the hair-trigger Barry standard, where almost anything will satisfy - and the DC circuit noted that. I will simply say that the law of the circuit makes it quite easy for you to say, look at the sourcing; I get to now put the burden on the prosecutor to come forward and show evidence that the prosecutor is not the source. And, David, that's what we're doing.

DAVID KENDALL: Mr. Starr, in fact, there has been no case remotely similar to this in terms of the massive leaking from the prosecutor's office, and I think we know that.

KENNETH STARR: I totally disagree with that. That's an accusation, and it's an unfair accusation. I completely reject it, and I would say, David, let's way until the litigation has concluded. You're asking to - and especially with the rules being what they are on a prima facae case - you're asking let's now come to judgment after about 10 minutes of the first half. That's not fair.

DAVID KENDALL: You mentioned the experience of Ms. Lewinsky at the Ritz Carlton on Friday, January 16, 1998. One of the reasons you - your agents held Ms. Lewinsky was that they wanted -

KENNETH STARR: That is - I have to interrupt - that is - that premise is false.

DAVID KENDALL: All right. I was not meaning to be offensive. Let me rephrase it.

KENNETH STARR: That is false, and you know it to be false. DAVID KENDALL: Well, I'll rephrase the question.

KENNETH STARR: She was not held.

DAVID KENDALL: She - her own psychological state will speak for itself as to how she felt. It's in the record in her testimony.

KENNETH STARR: You said she was held. You didn't say how she felt. You said she was held, and I think that's unfair to our investigators, and this issue has been litigated, David, as you well know, with respect to the constitutional rights of the individual involved. Excuse me.

DAVID KENDALL: During her sojourn with your agency -

KENNETH STARR: Well, the Ritz Carlton is a very pleasant place to have a sojourn.

DAVID KENDALL: -- one of the purposes was to get Ms. Lewinsky to wear a recording device and surreptitiously record Mr. Jordan or the President, was it not?

KENNETH STARR: It was not. We said one of the things that a cooperating witness can do is to assist us in consensual monitoring. We described that at a high level of generality - is my understanding - and I believe my prosecutors, in fact, conducted themselves consistently with what I have just told you.

DAVID KENDALL: Would you look at tab 13. Now, tab 13 is the FBI 302 Form. At 11:22 PM, it says, "AIC Emmett talked to Bernard Lewinsky," that is, Ms. Lewinsky's father. "Cooperation and interview, telephone calls, body wires, and testimony were mentioned." Do you see that?

KENNETH STARR: Yes, I do.

DAVID KENDALL: In fact, she was told on Friday, January 16th, by your agents that she'd have to place calls or wear a wire to see - to call Betty and Mr. Jordan and possibly the President. Question: "And did you tell them you didn't want to do that?" "Yes." Was that Ms. Lewinsky's testimony?

KENNETH STARR: Yes, that is her testimony.

KWAME HOLMAN: Kendall said he had more questions for Starr, but Chairman Henry Hyde reminded Kendall he already had used twice the time originally allotted.

REP. HENRY HYDE: So really it's a long day. One must have some compassion for Mr. Starr, and -

KENNETH STARR: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

KWAME HOLMAN: Starr then sat back and took some far less pointed questions from the committee's Republican counsel David Schippers.

DAVID SCHIPPERS: There is a term that has stuck in my brain from these transcripts that I've read, and that is, mission accomplished. When Web Hubbell needed help, Vernon Jordan got somebody at Revlon or the parent company of Revlon to put him on retainer for no work, right?

KENNETH STARR: Essentially no work.

DAVID SCHIPPERS: So, Vernon Jordan, mission accomplished. When Monica was looking for a job and it became very urgent for her to get a job, Mr. Jordan again accomplished his mission.

KENNETH STARR: Yes, he did.

DAVID SCHIPPERS: When Ms. Currie, when they wanted to get rid of the gifts, Ms. Currie went and picked them up, put them under her bed to keep them from anybody else, another mission accomplished?

KENNETH STARR: That's correct.

KWAME HOLMAN: Finally, at 10:23 PM, Kenneth Starr's day of testimony came to an end.

DAVID SCHIPPERS: How long have you been an attorney, Judge Starr?

KENNETH STARR: Twenty-five years.

DAVID SCHIPPERS: Well, I've been an attorney for almost 40 years. And I want to say I'm proud to be in the same room with you and your staff.

KENNETH STARR: Thank you, Mr. Schippers.

REP. HENRY HYDE: Thank you, thank you.

KWAME HOLMAN: Though Kenneth Starr's day was over, members of the House Judiciary Committee still had work to do, and despite the late hour, Democrats on the committee apparently were in no hurry to go home.

REP. HENRY HYDE: All right. Hold it. Just calm down.

KWAME HOLMAN: Chairman Hyde called for a quick vote on a motion to close the hearing to the public in order to consider subpoenas for three people. Robert Bennett, the President's lawyer in the Paula Jones case, Daniel Decker, attorney for Kathleen Willie, who said President Clinton made an unwanted sexual advance on her near the Oval Office, and Nathan Landau, an acquaintance of Willie's and a major Democratic contributor.

REP. CHARLES SCHUMER: We already have heard from Mr. Starr that he doesn't think the Willie episode rises to a level of impeachment. Mr. Chairman, one can only draw the conclusion without - without hearing an explanation - that the majority doesn't quite know what to do here and is sort of prolonging this with whatever thing they can grab on to.

KWAME HOLMAN: Chairman Hyde listened to and after 40 minutes and a series of votes ordered television cameras shut down and the room cleared. The Republican majority then approved the three subpoenas.