Filmmakers Answered Your Questions on 'The Judge and the General'

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I have seen Judge Guzman in a public forum in Chile spend the hour that he was given to speak reading the forms of torture used just to educate people about the extent and the horrors of the torture. It's the most effective speech I've ever seen him give.

He read from a document that was from a commission appointed by the government recently that the Catholic Church oversaw, somebody from the Catholic Church, which had a very rigorous proof requirement and asked people who had been tortured to come in and testify. And Juan Guzman reads from that and there are forms of torture that are so horrible and he does this precisely so that Chileans can't say they don't know what happened under Pinochet.

JEFFREY BROWN: Do you have a sense, Elizabeth, about the general awareness?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I think that Pato's knowledge of the schoolbooks is pretty telling. My experience is that over the years I've been going to Chile, far more people know now because not only did Judge Guzman and other very fine judges do very thorough investigations, but there was also a truth commission.

And my sense is that it's pretty hard to say you don't know what happened now, but what happens is that people say they don't care, that the terrorists deserved to be treated that way. Quote, "terrorists," unquote.

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, let me ask - actually, the largest swath of letters we got here go back to that time in '73 and ask about the American involvement, the American role. I'll just read a few of them and then we can talk about it generally. Thora Faigle from Lambertville, New Jersey: "What role did the U.S.A. play in the coup of Pinochet and in assisting and maintaining his regime?" Leslie Swain from Atlanta: "I wonder how the Chileans investigating this period felt about the effect of U.S. interference in their internal affairs. Would the coup have ever been attempted without the CIA's help and funding?" Robin Schneyer from Santa Clara, California: "Do you think that the founding complicity of the CIA in the coup under the direction of Henry Kissinger should be investigated as deeply as the activates of the Chilean military?" And there are a number of more along those lines. Elizabeth do you want to start? What is known ...

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Yes, I'll let Pato answer how Chileans feel about all this.

The role of the United States government in undermining the government of Salvador Allende, the democratically elected socialist, that role is pretty well documented now. Documents from U.S. government sources ranging from the CIA to the Department of Defense were released by the Clinton administration - thousands upon thousands upon thousands of documents. They're available online on the U.S. government National Archives Web site and also on the National Security Archive, that organization's Web site.

And you can read the amount of money spent under the Nixon administration to prevent Allende from ever being elected. Then you can read about attempts to prevent Allende from being inaugurated. You can read the famous quote from Nixon that "we're going to make the economy scream." You can read Henry - direct quotes from Henry Kissinger about the ways that they would try to subvert the Allende government. So this is pretty well-known.

Less well-known and still controversial is exactly what role the United States played in the coup. And I believe that the Chilean military could pull off a coup without a whole lot of U.S. help. I think that John Dinges and others would say that the U.S. may have had some help ready if the U.S. military needed it, but there wasn't a direct, direct involvement in the coup. And John Dinges and others have spent years researching this, so -

JEFFREY BROWN: He appears in your film, we should say.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Yes, John Dinges is in the film. He wrote a book called, "Operation Condor," among others and was a Washington Post reporter. But anybody that wants to know about the U.S. government involvement need only look at official U.S. government documents to know what it was.

JEFFREY BROWN: Patricio, how is this seen in Chile?

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: Well, the first thing that we have to understand, that Chile was and still it is one of the most stable countries in Latin America. We were very proud of our democracy before the coup and even after the coup, you know, when democracy came back to the country.

It was very clear, as Elizabeth says, the role in financing subversive groups at that time. I think there is a - I'm not quite sure, but I'm almost quite sure that finally, for example, all of the operation that ended with the life of the commander in chief of the army before Allende took office in 1970 was financed by the U.S. government.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And that's all in the documents, too. They tried to kill. They wanted to kill the head of the armed forces to promote a coup.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: Well, they [a right-wing group] killed the Comandante [Rene] Schneider.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I mean, they [the right-wing] killed him. [Henry] Kissinger claims that they pulled out a week before, but the guns used to kill him were paid for with American money.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: Yeah, yeah. So, but the general sense, you know, when all of the leftist movement and the union movement, the student movement in all over South America, you know, was rising, you know, as a huge wave of [complaining about] injustice, the country was absolutely, you know, happy with the election of Allende.

At that time, in 1970, there were three candidates: one from the right wing; one from the center, which was [Radomiro] Tomic from the Christian Democrats; and Allende. And Allende won with 37 percent of the election, but they other candidate, the center, you know, Tomic, the Christian Democrat, he supported very, very clear Allende and that's why it was possible for him finally that the senate has to recognize the triumph of Allende.

And what happened - it was just months before the coup, there was an election that basically, the support of Allende was almost the half of the country. So the country was divided and you saw all over the country signs and graffiti saying, "Yankee, go home!" which is - at that time was really hard. Don't forget that Allende nationalized the copper mines, which, until today, remains mostly in the hands of the Chilean state and has been really, really incredible. And everyone here in Chile recognizes that, that thanks to the copper, Chile has been improving the economy quite well right now.

The feeling - and it's very curious because when Pinochet was installed in power and then a few years after, you know, when [Orlando] Letelier is assassinated in Washington, well, the feeling now - it reversed because the U.S. justice system, at least, was so clear in investigating this assassination in the U.S. that, in a way, it was a serious problem for the Pinochet government and it was the starting of, you know, a splitting, in a way, of the armed forces here in Chile.

So the United States played a role in - a very serious and important role in the - in terms of interfering with the Chilean economy and the Chilean politics in 1970 and also in 1978.

JEFFREY BROWN: You know, you show you in the film, there was some very strong footage of the support that Pinochet had then and now. We got a few letters that addressed that. One is from A.G. Rosen in Camarillo, California. The question is: "Across the street from a friend's home, we discovered a married young woman who is in her 30s or 40s who remains a most fervent admirer of Pinochet. She now lives in and owns a business in the U.S. She maintains that he did no wrong, that it is all leftist propaganda we hear, and that the U.S. let Pinochet down in some manner due to leftist influences in our country. What do you or your film say to people like that who incidentally are quite vocal and very outspoken?"

And Arthur Little of Sonoma, California writes to you, Elizabeth: "Elizabeth Farnsworth, you claim to, quote, 'wonder when people choose to look the other way,' end quote. You and the rest of the media have been looking the other way when it comes to the crimes of communists for more than two generations. Herbert Matthews lied Castro into power. Walter Durante won a Pulitzer Prize by covering up Stalin's crimes. I've watched you soft-pedal Hugo Chavez. The list could go on and on." Elizabeth?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Well, the person who lives across the street from A.G. Rosen is sort of like Judge Guzman was. That person may have left Chile before the truth commission came out, and just may not want to know that these things happened.

But you know, it's not a matter of debate anymore. It's very well documented. It's one of the most important things about the judges' investigations in Chile that they have revealed the stark facts of what happened. It can't be denied. We all know there are people that deny all sorts of things.

And as for the charge that journalists in this country cover up crimes of the left, I don't think anybody in Chile alleges that Allende was torturing, repressing, and putting people into secret prisons. It's something that has never been alleged. And I don't think even the right wing alleges it.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: Well, I think this is very clear in our documentary that people have sometimes [have]prejudice. And they just, you know, follow some kind of ideas without thinking in all the values really.

When you came out with ethic, you came out with moral values. You establish a very clear line. I mean, torture is not right. Killing is not right. Threatening or kidnapping people is not right. And for years and years and years, the media - at least here in Chile - was in a way kidnapped by the government with a strong censorship, with a blind vision, with only one vision: the official vision.

Thanks to the thousands of foreign correspondents that were risking their lives - they came to Chile and they spoke out outside of the country. The world knew what was going on here. And that saved thousands of lives, I would say, including mine. And so, it's quite different when you think from your ideas - from you values, sorry.

JEFFREY BROWN: We have a question from Marcia Anderson from Salina, Kansas. "Do you expect to have protests when you have your screenings in Chile? Will you or the judge be in any danger?"

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: No, I don't think so. No, no, no. No, I don't think so. I think the country has been changing a lot. I think these issues - you know, the people - the people started - some of the people started to get - to be ashamed for not doing anything at that time.

And so - and, yes, we'll be probably a 10 percent of the population or 10 percent of the vote is a very hard right-wing supporter of Pinochet's regime and they don't think about it, they don't want to think about it, they don't need to think about it. They live in this kind of, you know, tent or crystal bulb and they don't want to reflect about what they did or what they - why they think about it.

So I've - but the 90 percent of the population is civilized in a way, you know. It's going to be - and there is a risk that, you know, it polarized or it raised again, you know, these issues in Chile. But I have to tell you, you know, press here in Chile hasn't been very helpful with the documentary. I mean, we have not -

JEFFREY BROWN: Not been helpful.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: No.

JEFFREY BROWN: It has not been helpful.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: Not very helpful. I mean, we have some coverage but very limited in comparison with other documentaries. And it's amazing because after, for example - and, again, this story is happening again. You know, after a very nice comment in The New York Times yesterday and here the newspaper were quoting some of that. I mean, again, the international press is, you know, affecting what happened here with the local press.

But surprisingly, you know, I've realized, and this is quite interesting - one of the newspapers online established a vote for the best documentary in the festival. And it was very curious that "The Judge and the General" is winning that vote.

Today, take a look and hundreds of people have been voting during the night - I don't know, and "The Judge and the General" is becoming very popular. The curious thing is nobody has seen this movie yet because the festival just has started today. So, you know, the people is voting just by their ideas, their heart, or whatever. So in a way, "The Judge and the General" is, you know, starting to break down - some breaks on this wall too.

JEFFREY BROWN: Elizabeth, I just - we just have a couple of minutes. I just wanted to ask you because some people wondered about the reaction of the families you profiled through the film. Have they been able to see it? Have you kept in touch? What kind of reaction have they had?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Oh, we're in very close touch with them, but Pato am I right, they have not seen it yet. They're going to see it. They're all invited to a screening this weekend. Is that right, Pato.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: Sorry?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: The family has not yet seen the film.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: Sorry, I didn't get that, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: The families have not yet seen the film, right? They're all invited to the screening.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: No. No, no, no. They are going to see it.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And I'm about to leave to go down for the festival.

PATRICIO LANFRANCO: Yeah, they are going to see it on the weekend. And we are receiving a lot of e-mails - you know, the people - and we are inviting a lot of those people because they deserve it.

JEFFREY BROWN: Elizabeth, finally, just what are you expecting or anticipating when you present it in Chile?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: You know, I have no idea what to expect. I have been in and out of Chile so much in the last years as we've made this documentary and I have no idea.

I just think it will be a fascinating process to see what happens and everything Pato just said I find fascinating about the press reaction.

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, good luck on the trip and good luck to the film. It is quite a very, very powerful film. And we're going to have to leave it there for today. So I want to thank both of you, Elizabeth Farnsworth, Patricio Lanfranco for joining us.

And I want to thank all of our viewers and online visitors who wrote in questions. We got to a fair number of them. Sorry to those we didn't get to. Thanks for listening. Until next time, I'm Jeffrey Brown. Take care.