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TERENCE SMITH: Suddenly, the networks, now, are pouring more money
--
BILL CARROLL: Uh-huh.
TERENCE SMITH: -- more emphasis, more talent, more time, into the 7
to 9 a.m. slot. Why?
BILL CARROLL: I think the main reason is they see it as their future.
They see it as an opportunity to reach those new viewers. They see it
as an opportunity to establish the new talents, the new anchors for
the future. Lifestyle has changed the way we watch television.
TERENCE SMITH: How?
BILL CARROLL: Because we now embrace television where we used to embrace
radio. We use radio in our car. We use radio in the office. We use television
at home. For the most part, most people have a television in their bedroom.
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: Most people have a television, even if it's a little tiny
set, in their kitchen.
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: And, thus, as part of the ritual of the morning, they
watch television and television has become a, a nice way to wake up.
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| Opportunity
in the a.m. |
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TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh. Is there money to be made in the morning?
BILL CARROLL: There -- there's great opportunity in the morning, be
-- because the cost of producing those shows, though expensive, you
have two hours, not a half hour. You have the opportunity of, in essence,
four times as many commercial opportunities --
TERENCE SMITH: As you would with the evening news.
[Simultaneous conversation.]
BILL CARROLL: As there would be with the evening news. And you also
have a potential for a growing audience, an audience that, unlike other
day parts, has not gone to cable. So you still have a broadcast audience
and an opportunity for profitability. As you look, even in the past,
if you go back to the tradition of the original "Today Show"
with Dave Garroway -- that expansion took place because there was money
to be made, as much as because it was an opportunity to program. And
the same is true, if you were to look at late night --
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: -- as opposed to, to prime time.
TERENCE SMITH: Is the audience actually growing in the morning?
BILL CARROLL: I think yes, it is, because there, there are more opportunities.
Not only are there the network newscasts, but in many markets the Fox
affiliate has a local morning show, back to the tradition of what television
started out to be. So unlike what might have been the case, even five
years ago, where there would be the network shows and cartoons, you're
now looking at the network shows, a local show, a local morning news
leading into the network shows. So it's an expanding arena and a very
competitive arena.
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh. And news is starting earlier and earlier --
BILL CARROLL: Yes.
TERENCE SMITH: -- as I see it.
BILL CARROLL: Yeah. News -- in most markets, most major markets, new
on a traditional affiliate -- ABC, CBS, NBC -- would start as early
as 5 a.m. and, in some cases, 4:30, and the main reason -- excuse me
-- the main reason, I think, is in lar -- larger cities we're all commuting
--
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: -- which means, if you're going to be on the 6:45 train
or the 7:15 train, you're up at 5 o'clock, and if you're up, the television's
on and you have to serve that audience, which is your future audience
for your local news and your network news.
TERENCE SMITH: How profitable can these morning shows be? Take the "Today
Show," for example, which has now been at the top of the ratings
--
BILL CARROLL: Right.
TERENCE SMITH: -- for more than -- for nearly four years.
BILL CARROLL: Well, I think it's hard to, to break out exactly what
they do, because it's part of the profitability of the news divisions,
but I'll, I'll just give an estimate based on what I've heard. I've
heard figures that say it is as much as $150 million, are generated
by a show like that, and given the success, that's not unreasonable.
But, you know, even if it's $100 million, that-- that's a pretty sizeable
amount a money to be generated by 7 to 9 o'clock in the morning.
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| A
new face in the a.m. |
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TERENCE SMITH: And so now, CBS, the perennial "also ran"
in the morning, is mounting a new venture. Tell me about that and, and
what the logic of it is.
BILL CARROLL: Well, I think the logic is -- it's the same as the lotto.
You can't be in it -- if you're not in it, you can't win it, and I,
I think you gotta be in it to win it, is really where CBS is coming
from, and, right now, they have a major personality, that's an established
personality, for the morning, Bryant Gumbel. They now are looking at
the same kind of structure as the other networks, in the sense of a
studio that is part of the New York scene. "Today Show" is
in Rockefeller Center. "Good Morning America" is in Times
Square. Now they're going to be on Central Park. What we're looking
at is establishing or attempting to re-establish a beachhead in the
morning and that's why CBS is doing [it].
TERENCE SMITH: Why does it make-- why is it important for them, as a
news division, and as a network?
BILL CARROLL: I, I think it's critical for them because the perception
of the viewer is, if you're not a part of my morning, why should you
be a part of the rest of my day? And I think that's-- you know, if,
if I start with you, the tendency is I'll stay with you, and I think
that's where the advantage goes to NBC, and, to a certain extent, to
ABC, and I think CBS, now, has to go back and say, okay, we weren't
there, we're gonna be aggressively there now.
TERENCE SMITH: I mean, cyclically, NBC or ABC has dominated the morning
news --
BILL CARROLL: Right.
TERENCE SMITH: -- time slot.
BILL CARROLL: Uh-huh.
TERENCE SMITH: CBS has never managed to put it together. Why?
BILL CARROLL: I think they've had some valiant efforts in the past.
They just have never been able to figure out exactly what the viewers
are interested in. I think, in the past, they took a hard news approach
and the audience really didn't want to watch hard news. And by the time
they got to doing entertainment, they didn't do entertainment as well
as the other networks. I mean, we, we've had, you know, Hugh Rudd and
Sally Quinn, we've had Charles Kuralt, we've had Bill Curtis, we-- we've
had Diane Sawyer, when she was at CBS. Oh, and we had a time where we
had Mariette Hartley and Bob Saget doing comedy. We, we've been all
over the place. In real terms, the "Today Show" that's on
today, that's -- where, where -- that's on at this time, is very much
an evolution of the show Dave Garroway did.
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: "Good Morning America" is very much an evolution
of the show David Hartman did. "CBS This Morning" is an evolution
of "CBS This Morning" last week, and I think that's, that's
where -- there is no tra -- unlike the other shows on CBS where there's
a great tradition and it's following through, they have to establish
a new tradition, and I think that's what they're trying to do.
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Winning
over the affiliates |
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TERENCE SMITH: Now they're spending millions of dollars.
They are building themselves a street-side studio. They have Bryant Gumbel.
What are some of the hurdles CBS has got to clear in order to become a
player, or even to become No. 1?
BILL CARROLL: Well, I think one, one of the big hurdles they're going
to have to face is in the most recent CBS morning incarnation, a number
of their stations established a 7 to 8 a.m. local presence, and a very
successful local presence, and in many of those markets, they're, they're
going to take a "wait and see" attitude on the Bryant Gumbel
effort, and so coming out of the box, they have that as a hurdle.
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: They have the hurdle of Katie Couric, Matt Lauer, Al Roker,
and a warm and fuzzy feeling.
TERENCE SMITH: On the "Today Show."
BILL CARROLL: On the "Today Show." You have ABC that said we're
in it, we're bringing back Diane Sawyer.
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: We're bringing back Charlie Gibson. We're building a studio
in Times Square. We're not giving up. We're, we're gonna make it a race.
so it's, it's a -- it's not an easy, "Oh, I'll build a studio, I'll
hire a host." It's "I have to win you over as an audience,"
and I think that's what they face, plus they have to -- in some ways,
they have to win over their affiliates.
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: And I think it's a combination of winning both the affiliates
and the viewers.
TERENCE SMITH: Some of those affiliates are your clients. What are you
going to advise them when it comes to the question of whether they stick
to their local news in the 7 to 8 o'clock hour or take the new, freshly
wrapped product from CBS?
BILL CARROLL: Well, I think we have the, the opportunity to take the both
-- the best -- let me start that again. I think we have the opportunity
to take the best of both, which is to leave the local news that's working
at 7 o'clock and run the new Bryant Gumbel "Early Show" at 8
o'clock, and then take a "wait and see" attitude and see how
-- what the audience embraces. Obviously, if they embrace the "Early
Show," we'll be running the "Early Show," but our past
history tells us the odds are long.
TERENCE SMITH: But doesn't that condemn the new CBS effort to lower ratings,
if many of its affiliates won't even clear the hour between 7 and 8 in
the morning?
BILL CARROLL: Well, I think the affiliates are a part of a dysfunctional
family, and sometimes the dysfunc -- dysfunctional family will find a
way to reach an accommodation, and they will reach the accommodation based
on success. If the show's successful, it'll be on at 7 o'clock all over
America. If the show is less than successful, then they'll just point
to the fact that they were correct in not getting on board. But, yeah,
it's going to be a problem. But whenever you start with a lower potential
than the other networks, you're going to have a problem, or could have
a problem.
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Choosing
a personality |
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TERENCE SMITH: There's another phenomenon here. All three of the major
networks are going to have morning news shows that have street-side
studios, you know, two principal anchors --
BILL CARROLL: Right.
TERENCE SMITH: -- the same essential mix --
BILL CARROLL: Right.
TERENCE SMITH: -- of news and entertainment, and --
BILL CARROLL: Uh-huh.
TERENCE SMITH: -- news you can use, and features. Are there no new ideas
in the morning? I mean, they are going to be clones of each other.
BILL CARROLL: Right, which is not surprising. If you really look at
any part of -- and I'll consider that part of the entertainment industry
-- whenever you have a successful team show, you'll have 15 team shows.
We just had success with "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?"
We will have "Greed" and "21," and every other version.
So it's not surprising that in the morning, we're not going to see anything
dramatically different than what we see elsewhere in entertainment.
TERENCE SMITH: It's really quite amazing. So --
BILL CARROLL: Yeah.
TERENCE SMITH: -- it comes down, then, to, I suppose, a choice of ho
-- hosts. Which personality are you most comfortable with in the morning?
BILL CARROLL: It always comes down to that. It, it comes down to comfort
in the morning as it comes down to credibility in the evening. It's
who you believe to be most credible, and you have a comfort level with,
is who you watch on the evening newscasts. When you wake up in the morning,
you're looking for a member of the family, and if you feel comfortable
that that member of the family is there, sharing information, or taking
you through some tragic event, or some concern, that's really what they
win over, and it's, it -- it is probably more than the evening news,
the point at which the personality or the person has to relate directly
to you.
TERENCE SMITH: Uh-huh.
BILL CARROLL: Because you don't want to be startled, first thing in
the morning, you want to be comforted, and that's really -- if you find
that level, that's the person or persons --
TERENCE SMITH: Right.
BILL CARROLL: -- who'll be successful.
TERENCE SMITH: You know, at CBS it was said, not too long ago, and I,
I ask you if it's true --
BILL CARROLL: Right.
TERENCE SMITH: -- that the morning has the potential to save the news
division --
BILL CARROLL: Uh-huh.
TERENCE SMITH: -- because with an extra rating point they can make serious
money, whereas the evening news is the evening news, makes what it makes
and that's that.
BILL CARROLL: Oh, absolutely. The only growth area, or potential growth
area really is the morning, and a rating point translates to real money.
TERENCE SMITH: Millions of dollars.
BILL CARROLL: Potentially, millions of dollars, yes.
TERENCE SMITH: That's great. Thank you.
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