| |
MS. IFILL: New question, a similar topic because I want to circle
back to a question which I'm not quite certain we got an answer to,
but I will direct it to you first, Senator Edwards, which is the question
of American intelligence. If this new report that we read about today
is true, and if Vice President Cheney ordered it and asked about this,
do you think that in the future, that your administration or the Bush
administration would have sufficient and accurate enough intelligence
to be able to make decisions about where to go next?
SEN. EDWARDS: Well, let me speak first to what the vice president just
said, and then I'll answer that question. This, unfortunately -- what
the vice president is telling people is inconsistent with everything
they see every single day. It's a  continuation
of, "Well, there's a strong connection between al Qaeda and Saddam
Hussein." It's not true. It's a continuation of at least insinuating
that there's some connection between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein. It's not
true. It's saying to the American people, as the president said last
Thursday and the vice president continues to say tonight, that things
are going well in Iraq, contrary to what people who have been there
have seen, including Republican leaders, contrary to what everyone in
America sees on their television every day -- Americans being kidnapped,
people being beheaded, parts of the country under the control of insurgents,
even today under the control of the insurgents.
The vice president has still not said anything about what Mr.
Bremer said about the failure to have adequate troops, the failure to
be able to secure the country in the short term. You know, remember
Shock and Awe? Look at where we are now. And, it's a direct result of
the failure to plan, the failure to have others involved in this effort.
This is not an accident.
Now, let me go back to your question. If we want to do the things that
need to be done to keep this country safe, we can't be dragged kicking
and screaming to it. One thing that everybody does agree on is that
9/11 did change things. But, what's happened is this administration
opposed the creation of a 9/11 commission to find out why it happened
and what we needed to do. They opposed the creation of a Department
of Homeland Security, and then they were for it. We can't react that
way. We must be more aggressive.
When John Kerry is president of the United States, we are
committed to immediately implementing all of the reforms suggested by
the 9/11 commission so that we have the information we need to find
terrorists and crush them before they hurt us.
MS. IFILL: Mr. Vice President.
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: Gwen, the story that appeared today about this
report -- this is one I asked for. I ask an awful lot of questions.
That's part of my job as vice president. A CI spokesman was quoted in
that story as saying they'd not yet reached the bottom line, and they
still debate over this question of the relationship between Zarqawi
and Saddam Hussein. The report also points out that at one point some
of Zarqawi's people were arrested; Saddam personally intervened to have
them released, supposedly, at the request of Zarqawi. 
But let's look at what we know about Mr. Zarqawi. We know he's -- was
running a terrorist camp, training terrorist in Afghanistan prior to
9/11. We know that when we went into Afghanistan, that he then migrated
to Baghdad. He set up shop in Baghdad where he oversaw the poisons facility
up at Khurmal where the terrorists were developing ricin and other deadly
substances to use. We know he's still in Baghdad today. He is responsible
for most of the major car bombings that have killed or maimed thousands
of people. He's the one you will see on the evening news beheading hostages.
He is without question a bad guy. He is without question a terrorist.
He was in fact in Baghdad before the war, and he's in Baghdad now, after
the war. The fact of the matter is that this is exactly the kind track
record we've seen over the years. We have to deal with Zarqawi by taking
him out, and that's exactly what we'll do.
MS. IFILL: Mr. Vice President, in June of 2000, when you were still
CEO of Halliburton, you said that U.S. businesses should be allowed
to do business with Iran because, quote, "Unilateral sanctions
almost never work." After four years as vice president now, and
with Iran having been declared by your administration as part of the
"axis of evil," do you think -- do you still believe that
we should lift sanctions on Iran?
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: No, I do not. And Gwen, at the time, I was talking
specifically about this question of unilateral sanctions. What happens
when we impose unilateralist sanctions is, unless there's a collective
effort, then other people move in and take advantage of the situation,
and you don't have any impact, except to penalize American companies.
We've got sanctions on Iran now. We may well want to go to the U.N.
Security Council and ask for even tougher sanctions if they don't live
up to their obligations under the initial -- the International Atomic
Energy Agency, a nonproliferation treaty.
We dealt with Iran differently than we have Iraq, partly because Iran
has not yet, as Iraq did, violated 12 years of resolutions by the U.N.
Security Council. We're working with the Brits and the Germans and the
French, who've been negotiating with Iranians. We recently were actively
involved in a meeting of the board of governors of the International
Atomic Energy Agency, and as I say, there will be a follow-up meeting
in November to determine whether or not Iran's living up to their commitments
and obligations. And if they aren't, my guess is, then the board of
governors will recommend sending the whole matter to the U.N. Security
Council for the application of international sanctions, which I think
would be exactly the right way to go.
We're addressing North Korea on a similar basis, working with the Chinese,
the South Koreans, the Japanese and others to try to bring them around.
One of the great by-products, for example, of what we did in Iraq and
Afghanistan is that five days after we captured Saddam Hussein, Muammar
Qadhafi in Libya came forward and announced that he was going to surrender
all of his nuclear materials to the United States, which he has done.
This was one of the biggest sources of proliferation in the world today
in terms of the threat that was represented by that. The suppliers'
network that provided that, headed by Mr. A.Q. Khan, has been shut down.
We've made major progress in dealing here with a major issue with respect
to nuclear proliferation, and we'll continue to press very hard  on
the North Koreans and the Iranians as well.
MS. IFILL: Senator Edwards.
SEN. EDWARDS: Well, the vice president talks about there being a member
or someone associated with al Qaeda in Iraq. There are 60 countries
who have members of al Qaeda in them. How many of those countries are
we going to invade?
Not only that, he talks about Iran. The reality about Iran is that Iran
has moved forward with their nuclear weapons program on their watch.
They ceded responsibility to dealing with it to the Europeans. Now the
-- the vice president, as you pointed out, worked -- spoke out loudly
for lifting the sanctions on Iraq (sic). John Kerry and I believe we
need to strengthen the sanctions on Iraq (sic), including closing the
loophole that allows companies to use subsidiaries, offshore subsidiaries,
to do business with Iran.
I mentioned Halliburton a few minutes ago in connection with the 87
billion, and you raised it in this question. This is relevant because
he was pushing for sanctions, lifting sanctions, when he was CEO of
Halliburton.
Here's why we didn't think Halliburton should have a no-bid contract.
While he was CEO of Halliburton, they paid millions of dollars in fines
for providing false information on their company, just like Enron and
Ken Lay. They did business with Libya and Iran, two sworn enemies of
the United States. They're now under investigation for having bribed
foreign officials during that period of time. Not only that, they've
gotten a seven-and-a-half billion dollar no-bid contract in Iraq. And
instead of part of their money being withheld, which is the way it's
normally done because they're under investigation, they've -- they've
continued to get their money.
MS. IFILL: Mr. Vice President.
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: I'd like to respond, Gwen, but it's going to
take more than 30 seconds.
MS. IFILL: Well, that's all you've got. (Laughter.)
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: (Chuckles.) Well, the reason they keep mentioning
Halliburton is because they're trying to throw up a smoke screen. They
know the charges are false.
They know that if you go, for example, to factcheck.com, an independent Web site sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania, you can get the
specific details with respect to Halliburton. It's an effort that they've
made repeatedly to try to confuse the voters and to raise questions,
but there's no substance to the charges.
MS. IFILL: Thirty seconds.
SEN. EDWARDS: These are the facts. The facts are the vice president's
company that he was CEO of, that did business with sworn enemies of
the United States, paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false
financial  information.
It's under investigation for bribing foreign officials. The same company
that got a $7-1/2 billion no-bid contract, the rule is that part of
their money is supposed to be withheld when they're under investigation,
as they are now, for having overcharged the American taxpayers. But
they're getting every dime of their money. I'm happy to let voters make
their own decision about this.
MS. IFILL: Senator Edwards, as we wrap up the foreign policy part of
this, I do want to talk to you about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
SEN. EDWARDS: Sure.
MS. IFILL: Today a senior member of Islamic Jihad was killed in Gaza.
There have been suicide bombings, targeted assassinations, mortar attacks,
all of this continuing. At a time when the United States seems absent
in the peacemaking process, what would your administration do? First
of all, do you agree that the United States is absent -- maybe you don't.
But what would your administration do to try to resolve that conflict?
SEN. EDWARDS: Well, first of all, I do agree that we've been largely
absent -- not entirely absent, but largely absent -- from the peacemaking
process over the last four years. And let me just -- let me just say
a couple of preliminary things and then talk about where we are now.
First, the Israeli people not only have the right to defend themselves,
they should defend themselves. They have an obligation to defend themselves.
I mean, I was -- if I can just for a moment tell you a personal story.
I was in Jerusalem a couple of years ago -- actually, three years ago
-- in August of 2001, staying at the King David Hotel. We left in the
morning, headed to the airport to leave, and later in the day I found
out that that same day, not far from where we were staying, the Sbarro
pizzeria was hit by a suicide bomber in Jerusalem. Fifteen people were
killed. Six children were killed. What are the Israeli people supposed
to do? How -- how can they continue to watch Israeli children killed
by suicide bombers, killed by terrorists? They have not only the right,
but the obligation to defend themselves.
Now we know that the prime minister has made a decision, an historic
decision, to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza. It's important for America
to participate in helping with that process. Now if Gaza's being used
as a platform for attacking the Israeli people, that has to be stopped
and Israel has a right to defend itself.
They don't have a partner for peace right now. They certainly don't
have a partner in Arafat, and they need a legitimate partner for peace.
And I might add it is very important for America to -- America to crack
down on the Saudis, who have not had a public prosecution for financing
terrorism since 9/11, and it's important for America to confront the
situation in Iran because Iran is an enormous threat to Israel and to
the Israeli people.
MS. IFILL: Mr. Vice President, 90 seconds.
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: Gwen, I want to go back to the last comment and
then I'll come back to Israel-Palestine.
The reason they keep trying to attack Halliburton is because they want
to obscure their own record. And, Senator, frankly, you have a record
in the Senate that's not very  distinguished.
You've missed 33 out of 36 meetings of the Judiciary Committee, almost
70 percent of the meetings of the Intelligence Committee. You've missed
a lot of key votes, on tax policy, on energy, on Medicare reform. Your
hometown newspaper has taken to calling you "Senator Gone."
you've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States
Senate.
Now in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of the Senate,
the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're
in session. The first time I ever met you was when you walked on this
stage tonight.
With respect to Israel and Palestine, Gwen, the suicide bombers in part
were generated by Saddam Hussein, who paid $25,000 to the families of
suicide bombers. I personally think one of the reasons that we don't
have as many suicide attacks today in Israel as we have in the past
is because Saddam's no longer in business.
We've been strong supporters of Israel. The president stepped forward
and put in place a policy basically that said we will support the establishment
of two states -- the first president ever to say we'll establish and
support a Palestinian state next door to Israelis. But first, there
has to be an interlocutor you can trust and deal with, and we won't
have that -- we don't have it now in a Yasser Arafat. There has to be
reform in a Palestinian system.
MS. IFILL: Senator Edwards, it's your turn to use 30 seconds for a complicated
response.
SENATOR EDWARDS: That was a complete distortion of my record. I know
that might come as a shock.
The vice president -- I'm surprised to hear him talk about records,
when he was one of 435 members of the United States House, he was one
of ten to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning
plastic weapons that can pass through metal detectors. He voted against
the Department of Education. He voted against funding for Meals on Wheels
for seniors. He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King. He voted
against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela in South
Africa. It's amazing to hear him criticize either my record or John
Kerry's.
MS. IFILL: Thirty seconds.
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: I think his record speaks for itself, and frankly
it's not very distinguished.
MS. IFILL: In that case, we'll move on to domestic matters. And this
question, I believe, goes to Senator -- to Vice President Cheney. The
Census Bureau --
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: Goes to Senator Edwards --
MS. IFILL: It goes to Senator -- I just -- I just. It's to you. I just
asked him about Israel, even though --
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: Yeah.
MS. IFILL: -- we didn't actually talk about it much.
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: I, I concede the point.
|
|
