Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of presidential contender John Kerry

MARGARET WARNER: Mrs. Heinz Kerry, thank you for doing this.
Why do you think Americans are so fascinated and interested in the first lady? What do you think it rep- -- the first lady represents?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I think the first lady's probably, in its best light, a symbol of one's hopes as a representative of one's country. And it's also maybe a, a way in to see some side of the president -- maybe what used to be called the "softer" side. So, I think there's legitimate reasons for being interested.

And then there are, of course, the roles of first ladies in the past that now that are -- become role models for women -- young women and even older women -- for a variety of reasons. You know, what they do, what they did, how they look, how, what they dress, you know, whatever.

So, I think there's a -- and particularly in a media-genic time like ours, when so much is seen, and very quickly, I think the impact of anyone in the White House - particularly the spouse and the family -- and it's tough on the family; because, you know, they didn't necessarily choose that. But I think it's important, and I understand why it is.

Boundaries
MARGARET WARNER: What boundaries or limitations do you think are placed on the role by, whether its public opinion, or potential conflicts? I mean how - how limited is the role?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: You know, I don't think of limits in terms of people. I think people should be who they are. If someone is a great mother, or a great personal friend to their friends and just a loving person, that's all they should be, if that's what they want to be, 'cause it's genuine. If someone like Hillary is so - a senator now - is so interested in public policy, let her study public policy.

If someone is, you know, like Betty Ford, whom I knew in the House and then as a vice president's wife - I have so much admiration for what she did in such a short time, under so much stress. And, you know, it's not the amount of time. It's what she endured - and she did - personally, where she came from and where she went. And I have great admiration and love for her.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, she was very controversial. What did you take from that? Why do you think that was?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I - well, I remember that she had had a drinking problem, as you - we all know. But she talked about that, and she went and, you know, got treatment. Then she had, as I remember, breast cancer. And she made that a possibility in terms of the dining room table discussion.

So, I think she dealt with person sorrows and deficits in a most generous way, which is to say, "Now, we all travel this world, and we all have burdens. Doesn't matter who we are."

MARGARET WARNER: How about the controversy that surrounded Hillary Clinton?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: You mean -

MARGARET WARNER: What do you think -

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: -- but -

MARGARET WARNER: -- I mean -

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: -- which one? I'm sorry, because there was one about policy, and then there was one about before she became first lady.

MARGARET WARNER: I would talk about the one about policy in terms of what it said about what the public is willing to grant in the way of - of freedom to the first lady.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I think it's correct. At the time, I mean I agree with what you said about the public. I if I had been the first lady and the president, I would have asked, or suggested, that I be appointed an honorary chair -- not the full chair -- unless I were willing to go through the Senate confirmation proceeding, as any other Cabinet or high-up advisor. It just separates things, you know? She's a capable person, clearly, and she cared a lot about that issue; but I - I do think that if they had someone like Koop or someone of that stature as the head and she could be still honorary chair and sit at all the meetings - and open all the meetings, for that matter - it's a different role. And I think there is a fine line.

I also think, from a very practical political point of view, if the issue succeeds, great; but if it didn't - it doesn't, as it did not, then the president lost one, she lost one, and the issue lost. So, why jeopardize so much also - I mean from a political brownie-point of view?

Public's expectations
MARGARET WARNER: What do you think the public - the American public today wants or expects in a first lady?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I don't know that they know, you know? I think our country is such a diverse country, and it's a country with a generous heart, and imaginative. And for the most part, the people of this country are very genuine people. They want reality. But reality is different things to different people, right?

But what I find out there which is very rewarding as a human being is that people don't want to agree with you. They don't want you to say what they want to hear. They want to see you think. They want you to be yourself. They want you to be - if you are warm and chatty, be warm and chatty. If you are serious, be that. Because people have an inner sense. They can sense that, and that's what they like. And I think that's fine.

MARGARET WARNER: So, you don't think that the public - the public's expectations about a first lady are lagging behind what they allow themselves in their own lives.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I don't think so. I think the public wants the same thing that peop- -- public wants reality. That's what they want. They want to be proud, clearly; but I think it's important, particularly in a time like ours, when we have so much coverage - unlike, say, 50 years or 30 years ago - people in leadership positions, unfortunately, have to be ready to be disliked, even more than that sometimes, for no reason of their own - you know? And it goes with the territory, as they say. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

If you can't understand or accept that, don't go into this, because - or - or sh- -- shy away and hide away. Well, you know, I could've made that choice, but my life isn't about shying away. My life is about tackling life and trying to enable other people to do the same. And so if people don't like what I do, that's okay. I respect their opinions, and I just hope they respect mine. And I think that's all people really ask for - is someone that they can say, "all right. They dealt with their lives. They had these things, they had those things. And, you know, they made a life."

And yesterday, I was at the Redwood - Red Book lunch in New York City at Lincoln Center, and they honor a lot of women. They call it "Mothers and Shakers." And the stories of these women - I was supposed to speak, because they wanted me to speak about philanthropy; but I felt like a silly fool, because these people were telling amazing stories that had - things that had happened. Child die of anorexia because the insurance company wouldn't pay for it. A girl raped, who finally comes out and tells the whole story and changes the way it was dealt with. I mean these were amazing women. And you come up, and - and you just feel both grateful for their example and uplifted, even in tragedy.

And that's what people want. You know? People have tragedies in all their - in everyone's life, and they just want uplift. They want to - they want to be able to say, "It's all right. She'd understand."

And, you know, besides that, there're - people will pontificate one way or another. But mostly, the people who pontificate don't deal with the people out there.

MARGARET WARNER: How did your upbringing in Mozambique shape the person you are today in that sense, in the - I hate to be the person to - in the equanimity, but in the way you approach being in political life today?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I don't - well, hmm. It's a good question. It's a hard question. I never really wanted to be in the place that I'm in today. And even when my late husband was alive and people would mention, "He's gonna do this," and I'd say, "Over my dead body," it terrified me -- I think partially because I've been here since 1971 and I've seen it from a somewhat closer point of view, or angle. And it's an awesome place to be - and a great honor. Maybe I also felt I didn't deserve it. Who in the dickens deserve it - deserves this?

Nor do I think who in the dickens is really prepared to be president of the United States and leader of the free world. There're a lot of great people in this country, a lot of able people. When you think of the enormity, it's pretty humbling.

On husband running for president
TERESA HEINZ KERRY: And so I think had I been ten years younger, I would have said, "I'm not gonna be part of it." But at my age and seeing what I have seen in the last 12 years or so, working through the foundations in a different light from what I did as a mother and a wife - where I still work on a lot of these issues, but on a small scale - doing -- doing the work that I do, I see the pervasiveness of so much, as well as the opportunity to do so much.

And when John came up with the i- -- you know, and talked to the kids and talked to me, I still didn't wanna do it. But I went walking, as I do, by myself - hiking - and - and I thought about that, and I decided I had no right to: a) prevent him from doing it; but, indeed, I had an opportunity to maybe share some of my age-acquired wisdom and - (chuckling) - work-acquired wisdom with people and continue to enable people to improve their lives, which is essentially what I try to do.

MARGARET WARNER: Go back just a little bit, because I've seen you a lot on the campaign, and you talk - you do talk about your upbringing. You talk about the landscape in Africa. And I just wondered, one, why you talk about it and - and what you think it gave you; that, perhaps, if you'd had just a normal - not "normal"; I hate that word -- but if you'd had just an --

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Usual.

MARGARET WARNER: -- ordinary, usual, suburban, American girlhood, you wouldn't be bringing to this today.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: You know, I did. You're right. In Iowa, I did use that - not in New Hampshire so much - in Iowa, in winter, even, with the snow, when you look out, you can get the feel of open space, of a savannah, with just a little clutter of something which - in their case, a farm, silo, little trees around a farmhouse and then open.

And that openness was - made me both long for home and feel at home - and feel at home in a sense that the sparseness of the population and, yet, the closeness to the ground, to the earth. These, their life is a life of the earth.

I don't do that as much now, but what value did give me? Well, it gave me a value of being curious and interested and open. I think Iowa represents that. I think the Midwest very much represents that. They may be conservative or not, but they're open. And it's interesting to have the dichotomy of New Hampshire and Iowa at the same time, one undefined by landscape, one structured by granite. And the sturdy people of New Hampshire, to "live free or die" - independent and very firm. So different, but -- both great American people, but so different.

And so I began to see this, going backwards and forth. I said, "This is so interesting, how geography and topography really does do and give people certain definitions." And, definitely, my definition is all of the mixes. But I mean I went from there, and then I went to Johannesburg. That was high on a plateau, you know, 6,000 feet; and then to Geneva, you know, the big Alps - (chuckling) -- around me. And - four years. And then to the skyscrapers of New York City.

But had I been a girl from a suburb anywhere, you don't know. I mean it's such a hypothetical -

MARGARET WARNER: Yeah.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: -- question, because I might've been raped. I might've had a brother or somebody who was full of drugs. I might've - you know. Who knows? Who knows? So, I, I can't begin to think quite that way, because I know that tragedy hits everywhere, and lessons are learned also everywhere.

Her new identity
MARGARET WARNER: Talk to us a little bit about how you've really forged, it seemed to me, a new identity for yourself through your work, after your first husband died.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Well, you know, I always think that women are the chaos managers of life. They are - that's what you do, from the time you start with diapers, on. You know? You just do. And when Jack died, I had an overwhelming sense of responsibilities - including three sons and no more relatives, because my late husband was an only child. And his father had one brother who was killed, so he was an only child - became an only chi- -- only survivor.

And even though the boys were - well, my youngest was just 18, very important transition times for them; they - their manhood is not quite rounded. And I certainly knew I couldn't be a father. I'm not a man. And it was difficult, because there were times when I worried, and I would say, "If I do too much, it's wrong for me as a mother to do it, or say too much. But if I don't say something, something might happen. And then how will I live with the regret?"

Buying a motorcycle, for instance. You know? My late sister was killed in a car crash. When my son told me he wanted to buy a motorcycle, I was very upset. I was scared. And I said, "You know, Chris, if there's anything I could do to stop you [from] buying this motorcycle, I would." And then I thought "Maybe I just won't pay his studies, 'cause if he has enough money to buy a motorcycle, then he can pay for his studies."

And then I said, "No. I'm not gonna use money as an authority" - "a control. I'm just gonna say what I think."

And he bought it, but he was very careful with it. And he knew I was scared.

But I - you know, I missed my husband a lot, 'cause, you know. After 27 years, you know, you - (unintelligible) -- 25 years. I - (unintelligible) -- 25 years. The work that he left and the opportunities that he left for me to do, and things that we were actually working together on - on environment and global climate change and nature - (unintelligible) - nature's walks and other issues like that - were opportunities I am so grateful for, because it allowed me to live part of his work and kind of tie his work and his standards and keep that alive for my boys, so that they could understand better, grow into it and do with it what they wanted - but at least be the transition person.

And so that's what I decided to do, and - and I enjoy it. I mean I - I learn so much, and I'm so grateful to have that - so grateful.

MARGARET WARNER: And that's what you don't wanna give up as first lady.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: No. I don't want to give up being able to, in a sense, help nurture Pittsburgh and western Pennsylvania. Indeed, these areas that we're working so hard in, and they're common in many parts of country, where they've had very high manufacturing production, such as steel for us and others. But you can go to Detroit, you can go to, um, to Akron, you can go to anywhere in Ohio almost, West Virginia, and you see the same story on those faces and the economies. And it hurts, because those are very good people. And those are the people that taught me to be an American. They're hardworking. They didn't call me "Mrs. Heinz." They call me "Theresa." And they like you, they like you. And they don't, they don't. But they don't make a big fuss of it. They're real people. And I don't like to see them hurting.

Working on the Heinz Endowment
TERESA HEINZ KERRY: And so the work that I've done, and that I want to do, is to be able to enable communities and people to lift themselves. And it's different in different places. And I'm good at doing that, because I'm good at convening people of disparate points of views - market forces, policy, labor, civic, NGOs. I like to do that.

MARGARET WARNER: And so you would w- -- want to continue to do this, running the Heinz Endowment as first lady.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Yeah. I mean as chairman. I'm not the president. I'm not there day to day. I'm not the president.

MARGARET WARNER: And so is - is it a paid position?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I don't take pay.

MARGARET WARNER: Do you think the American public would -

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I could -

MARGARET WARNER: -- accept that?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Yeah. It's - it's pro bono work.

MARGARET WARNER: Sorry. Let me ask that again, 'cause I didn't wanna talk over you. So, do you think the American public would accept that?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I've never heard any of them say no, partially because we've had very good involvement. And you can talk to anybody in Pittsburgh.

I'll give you one example. I mean I don't think any city or any mayor in the country would say no to this. In 1992, I had to move out of my office, which was my father-in-law's old family office, 'cause the lease was up. And I found an empty space that was ten years old, never been used, on top of a floor of an existing, modern building - ten years old. And so I was able to get a good rent and have it fixed up.

And I had an environmental architect friend of mine who's done very well, and we worked, and worked on this as a project for the city, for the area, for the idea of it. Discovery Channel filmed the whole workings of that - talking to the workers, talking to the engineers, talking to the people who provided the materials. And they made a very good special on this, and it became an example of green architecture in an existing building.

Well, today - I moved in January of '94, and today, ten years and - well, now almost 11 years later, Pittsburgh is the number one green build city in the country; and it has over 630-some - 37; I don't remember - green sites - lead sites. That's very good. Young people love that story! It's the possibility of the future.
I like to do that.

MARGARET WARNER: Do you think that continuing to do that would conflict with the other roles of the first lady -- for instance, helping her husband be the best president he can be? How important is that? How do you mesh the two?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Important. And I couldn't possibly tell you, because I've not been there, what it would do in terms of my involvement with the work that I do.

I have an office on Pennsylvania Avenue not too far from the White House. I've had it for - and my late husband and I have had offices here for over 20 years -- more. And so - I have a small office here. But the work that I do, other than running a meeting or two, or seeing sites, can be done here or there. And so I don't feel that's handicapped at all.

But would I ever jeopardize my husband's well-being because of that? No. I - I'm just also hoping that my sons, as they grow a little older -- and they've been, two of them, on the Endowment; and the third one's coming in - they are wiser and more learned about all the work, that they'll be able to take over. But they haven't been able to do that, and I'm the - now the caretaker, in a sense - the transition.

MARGARET WARNER: How much advice to you give your husband? How much does he seek your advice?

Giving advice
TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I think he likes my perspective on things. I don't do public policy for him. He has his professionals that do that. But I talk - I try to put a lotta these things in the perspective of life, where I have perspective. And in terms of the environment, which is what brought us together, I - I have parts of the environment that I'm more, um, on subjects that I'm more familiar with, and he has others. He's worked a lot on oceans and global climate change issues, and I've worked a lot on toxicology - chemicals, health, disease.

MARGARET WARNER: So, if, for instance, his administra- -- if you knew he was nearing a decision on something that you knew a lot about, would you hope to influence him?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I would hope he would ask me questions, and I know that he would, because he always does. But I was married to my late husband and in Washington for 20 years as a - as a congressman and senator, and I never, ever told my late husband how to vote, one way or another. And I never have told John.

MARGARET WARNER: And what would you --

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: And I never would.

MARGARET WARNER: And why not?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I'm not the president. I'm not the senator. I'm not a congressperson. I'm just a good, thinking person.

MARGARET WARNER: And what if, say, the Endowment had - took a position on something that was opposite the administration position? Would you see a problem with that?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: N- -- we don't take positions. The work that we do is basically creating models to look for solutions.

MARGARET WARNER: Let me rephrase my question -

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Yes.

MARGARET WARNER: -- 'cause you're absolutely right. You don't take positions. But there have been cases - for instance, you might fund an organization that then would - would take a position. For instance, there was one group that sued EPA 'cause they weren't announcing which counties weren't meeting the acid rain standards. Could you imagine that you could ever get in a conflict situation?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: It didn't for my late husband, and he was alive when those things were going on. You know? He was a senator.

Generally speaking, I believe that people in government get out of NGOs that lobby and do those kinds of things. We don't lobby. All we do is we collaborate with people, if they want our help - they want us to fund something that they want to study, even in government when they don't have the moneys. We'll help them. Everything we do is transparent. It's on the Web site: the money, who's involved, et cetera. So, you know, we try to facilitate, and I don't - I think that the - one has to be more careful with lobbying - not-for-profit groups - as opposed to doing what we do, which is - and also, what we do is in some ways very regional. Has applications in places in the country, because so many countries have a lot of similar problems.

Having said that, our blueprint for - which we called HOPE - for prescription drugs is a blueprint which we presented to all the governors, all the states. And, actually, everybody says - you know, "We, we've got this blueprint, great actuarial study. Take a look at it. If you're interested in pursuing it, call us."

Well, Massachusetts was interested, and - and we then sent the same actuarial people up to Massachusetts to, in a sense, give a full account of a - the demographics, the need, the diseases, the agencies, the resources available in the state; and then developed their own plan, which passed 158 to zero in four days.

MARGARET WARNER: Let me ask, because I know I'm about - I'm sort of running out of time here. But one of the most quoted lines in your convention speech was when you said, "My only hope is that one day soon women, who have all earned their right to their opinion, instead of being called 'opinionated' will be called 'smart' and 'well-informed,' just like men." What led you to say that? Why was it important for you to say that?

Women and opinions
TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Because I've lived in many cultures, and - and I've seen the definition of what is acceptable for a woman in different lights, of course; but also with a diminution, generally speaking, about what their role is, if they have something else to say. You know, they'll reign as - in the kitchen. They'll reign as mothers. They'll care about everybody. But if you're going to speak about this, "You don't know how to read and write." "You didn't go to college." "You didn't go to school."

And you know what? What we know, we know. And it's valuable. And it's not to be compared with anybody else's knowing, but it's very valuable. And it's time that the country hear -- our country, all countries, really listen; because women and children pay the first price. They're the people on the frontlines of refugees, of hunger, of rape, of starvation, of disease. You know? And they have no say. They're the victims.

And so I don't want women to be victims. I want women to be lifted. And also, I read a statistic the other day which stunned me -- the World Health Organization - that 60 percent of the world's women are depressed. And I said, "I don't believe that!" I got so upset when I read that. It can't be. Can't be.

And then I started thinking, "Now, why would 60 percent of the world's women be clinically depressed?" - not word-wise. And I began to think of it - you know? And I can see why. And that needn't be.

And I think we to listen to women. I think women earned their right to - to speak and to have opinions.

MARGARET WARNER: Are there candid comments you've made, say, in this campaign that you regret making?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Nope. Not at all.

MARGARET WARNER: Even if they distracted from your husband's message?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Well, that's -- what they do to him I regret, but not what I said. So -

On being partisan in campaign
MARGARET WARNER: And there have been times when you've been critical of the president or the vice president. … But, are they comfortable with a first lady who takes partisan positions?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: It's a tough world out there, isn't it? I work. Hmm? I get hit by people who don't wish me so well, either - because of the work I do, because it's good work. I don't want my husband to have to defend me. If they want to attack me, attack me to my face. That's all.

MARGARET WARNER: And how do you react when he's attacked?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: John? He's a big boy, too. He's been attacked before. I don't mind being attacked or criticized for differences. I think that's good. I just don't like lies; and I don't like, particularly, cowardly lies. I prefer to face people face to face and say, "You know, you said this and this and this and this, and that's wrong. And this is why that's wrong" - or not.

MARGARET WARNER: How do you feel about the title "first lady" for you?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I'm the wife. I'm the mom. I'm the friend. And, you know, my friends call me "Mama T," or "Dr. T," and that's, guess, what I am - the Mama T and the Dr. T. That's who I am.

MARGARET WARNER: You were quoted telling somebody - when asked about the title, you said, "Ick."

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: No. Never said that. It's not a word I use. I think the present first lady said that. She does not like it. And I can understand. She does not like that.
But, you know, titles don't - I have other things to do.

MARGARET WARNER: So, it - it doesn't - doesn't bother you. Is there anything about being first lady that really excites you, potentially?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Yeah. Sure. I tell you one thing I'd like to do. And I -- thought about this forever since I've been here, particularly when I go to the Senate side, as opposed to the House side. And I saw the special treatment that - Senate wives got a little bit more, and I felt very badly for members in the House - their spouses. And the -- and I would love to be able to do something for spouses here, of both parties. Maybe convene meetings - twice a year, three times a year - on subjects that - you know, they could write down subjects they wanna hear about, and we'd take the most popular ones and try and give them a - in a sense, to legitimize not only their interests, but their ability to go beyond, go out and to leverage.

These women, by and large, were essential in the elections of their husbands. They're a great force for good, whether they're Democrats or Republicans. They need information, and they need to be able to leverage that. No one does that for them when they get here. And I'd like to help them do that.

MARGARET WARNER: Go back to - you were - we - you were talking about if your husband had a position and … you know, that - that relationship. If he took a position that you disagreed with how would you handle that? I'm talking about both either privately or publicly.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I - it's not my job to publicly disagree with him on his work, just as I would not like it if he publicly disagreed with me on my work without us having a nice conversation - at least having an understanding. I don't look at it so much as a - I look at it more so practically - less attack and defense. It's more, "How did you get to that place?" "Why do you think that way?" And then, "This is why I think the way I think." And therein lies the joy of it. And then it's his decision, you know? He has to live - he has to go to bed with it, not - (chuckling) - me.

MARGARET WARNER: So, would you, then, observe - because whe- -- if you were first lady, of course, we in the media would always want to know, if it was an issue that we thought you had an interest in, whether you disagreed. Would you feel free to say so - "Well, yes, I do disagree"? Or, would you sort of ascribe to the unwritten rule that --

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: No. I think what I would do is - as I do now and I always have is I get briefed on what's going on, every day, what are the big questions of the day. And if there was something that I was particularly sensitive to, I'd talk to him about that. I'd say, you know, "If I get asked something about this, would you feel comfortable if I say X, Y, or Z?" I think that's fair. And It should be. At least there's some concerted effort.

But I don't think John would want me or expect me to just sit there and say, "I don't know," because, you know, at least - not on all respects, because if it was something to do with specific banking regulations or some other things, I wouldn't know. And I would say, "It's not my field. I'd like to learn, but I don't - (chuckling) - no."

But if I do have, you know, feelings about things and opinions of work that I've done, I would certainly ask him.

MARGARET WARNER: One other question, which jumps back to something we've talked -- I just wanted to jump back to a couple of things that are sort of biographical. And one is, do you think you would've become essentially a philanthropic CEO if your first husband had lived?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: No, because he did it. I was on the other side. I was asking for money for the things I worked in. And then when he died - and taught me a lot. And - and then when he died, I was on the other side and giving money - sometimes to the things I'd been working on.

Describing her second marriage

MARGARET WARNER: You have described your marriage - your second marriage - as a "grown-up marriage." What does that mean? Talk to us about the difference in this - in you and in this marriage, as compared to an early marriage?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Well, I met my husband as a college student - my first husband - you know? And I didn't see him for a while. But it's very different when you're a - (chuckling) - college student and -- and when you - later in life, particularly if you've had a sudden loss, like I did. You don't have time to say good-bye. You don't even properly mourn. I didn't, because it was so sudden. I had to deal with my kids and with life, but I finally did mourn.

I think at that stage in life, even though I wanted not to be alone, obviously, eventually - but I wasn't actively looking. And the first three times over a span of almost two years that I saw John - three years, Ninety- -- Ninety- -- it was '93 - were all around environmental meetings. So, you know, we clearly were both slow, or blind, or something - (chuckle).

But I think the - the "grown-up" - what I mean by that is that I wasn't 22 or 23. But there is a - and - and John had had, you know, a harder beginning in his former marriage, and I think he was skittish, generally, about the institution, probably, or his luck or something on it. And - and I wasn't in the sense that I'd been happily married.

But I think what happens when you're a certain age is you know what's really important. And you don't fuss so much with some little things that you might - which doesn't take at all from whether or not it's easy or had. I think getting to live with somebody else is not so easy - (chuckling) - particularly if you've already got habits that are formed. And that's the same for him.

But, you know, there's a grander total in the end, and that's what you work towards. And - and that's how you grow. And you do. So, it's a different type of relationship at - certainly at the outset, it's a different kind of relationship.

It's also nice that John knew my late husband. In fact, my late husband introduced me to John a year before he was killed. So, it's kind of nice. They were doing some of the same work and that ties things together a little bit.

MARGARET WARNER: Say briefly what you were saying before we started rolling on the cameras about what this campaign's been like. You talked about learning to do something totally new. But take me out of it and just -

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: I think we were talking about what I would say if it was something that was my husband's turf and if I were in public. And I said -

MARGARET WARNER: … how much you've learned just in the last year, and you didn't realize -

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Oh, yes. Oh, that initial piece. Okay.

MARGARET WARNER: Well, what has the past year taught you about yourself?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Year and-a-half. Well, it taught me that I am a lot more resilient than I thought, and I thought I was resilient - vulnerable, but resilient. … I'm much more philosophical. The price has a lot more meaning, I feel happier about that. So, it's a good feeling.

MARGARET WARNER: And what do you mean, "the" - "the prize," or the "price" -

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: The price. The price. You know, the price that you pay for your peace of mind, or the price that you pay for not being - feeling upset and vulnerable. You know, it's all right. It's all right.
My - I have - I have a - a way of dealing with this, which is at night I want to go to bed. No sleeping pills, no angst. Think about the day and conk out - and that's what I do. And if I can't do that, something's off.

MARGARET WARNER: Thank you very much.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: Thank you.