Extended Interview: David Axelrod Reflects on Obama's Campaign Path

MARGARET WARNER: So David, let's start with the campaign organization that Barack Obama built. How did he go about that, that you think reflects Obama himself and tells us something about how he might govern?

DAVID AXELROD: Well Barack went and recruited people who reflected his values and his philosophy of how to run the campaign. I remember the first meeting that we had, the senior staff, and it wasn't a very large group, as we began the effort, and he said I only want three things. He said number one, I want people to understand that we're in this together. I don't want sharp elbows, I don't want people pointing fingers.We're going to rise and fall together.

The second thing I want is that, I want this to be a grassroots campaign, and that's how I believe you bring about change, that's the only way we can win this election. I want the emphasis placed there. And the third thing is I want this to be a joyful experience. It's going to be the hardest thing any of us ever do, but I also want it to be joyful thing. We've got to have some fun doing it. And we've actually accomplished all the things that he set out to do.

When we lost the Ohio and Texas primaries, which was really a blow to our campaign. He came into the campaign headquarters the next day unannounced. He visited every kid who works there at their desk and there were hundreds of them, and told them, you know you're doing a great job. Keep your chin up. We're gonna get to where we need to go, and then we had a senior staff meeting.

MARGARET WARNER: Do you ever see him really angry?

DAVID AXELROD: I know when he's not happy. But he's not a screamer. He doesn't throw tantrums. I've seen him raise his voice, but not too often.

MARGARET WARNER: OK, a president goes into office and suddenly has to run this huge executive branch and he has to make policy decisions, and he has to deal politically with the Hill. What would you imagine his inner circle, and what would the circle be like?

DAVID AXELROD: Well, let me say two things about that. Barack is someone who's completely comfortable with himself. I think he has great confidence in his own ability. And therefore, he's completely comfortable with very bright people. He doesn't mind being challenged. He enjoys it.

MARGARET WARNER: Let's look at big decisions. When he's faced with a big decision, how does he go about it? And you've worked for other candidates, so think of things like running for president, or picking a vice president is certainly a big one.

DAVID AXELROD: Once he's satisfied with stuff that he's gone through with due diligence on a particular question or subject, he'll make that decision and he'll live with that decision.

MARGARET WARNER: So for instance, in deciding the vice president, or the running mate, I mean was there ever a time where the inner circle got together and had a kind of final powwow about it, or is it more he does it serially and then retreats and then thinks about it or talks to Michelle?

DAVID AXELROD: He talked, I think mostly he talked to people individually about it. He had a small screening group who he would consult with, he consulted with some of us, but ultimately once he gleaned from people the information and their insights, then he, he made the decision alone. And that's often what he does. He gathers information and then he reflects on, on that information. So, he's a deliberative decision maker.

One of the most impressive episodes in this campaign came when we, when the Reverend [Jeremiah] Wright story surfaced, and there was an awful lot of turmoil. Political waters were roiled, and this happened on a Thursday when the story broke and he was in the Senate that day, and came back to Chicago on a Friday and had some editorial board meetings and something else.

Friday night he called [David] Plouffe and he called me and said I want to give a speech on race and I want to put this Reverend Wright situation in that context, because that's where it belongs. And we said, well when do you want to give this speech? He said Monday or Tuesday. ... And he said, I have to write it, because I really know what I want to say.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, explain to me what you think the difference is, first Reverend Wright, as you said, he wanted to take it to the transcendent level, to the big picture: talk about race. Then comes chapter two, Reverend Wright at the National Press Club, and he finally cuts him loose. Now what was the difference there?

DAVID AXELROD: The difference was that I think that he tried to explain Reverend Wright in a fuller context in his speech in who he was and where he fit into not just his life but into this whole narrative, and this whole issue of race and, and then Reverend Wright went out and did a series of speeches culminating in a talk at the National Press Club that was you know, frankly, a little outrageous and he. I think he was hurt in this that he had stood up as he did and then Reverend Wright did what he did.

MARGARET WARNER: What does that tell you about at what point ... for how long does he stick with a person and then finally decide loyalty or no? You know, presidents face those decisions.

DAVID AXELROD: You know I think he's certainly will always separate himself out by statements and actions with which he disagrees, and I think what happened ultimately with that was that you know he understood that views that were different than his and abhorrent to him were being inputted to him, and that he would never tolerate. But and as a general rule, he is a very loyal person.

You know we've had very little turnover in our campaign over the course of two years. We've added on people, but we haven't, not too many people have left and that's partly because he isn't someone who blames others. You know he views this as a group effort.

MARGARET WARNER: How does he deal with out-right adversaries. Because the president will have adversaries, whether they're domestic or foreign, I suppose the closest thing to that might have been Hillary Clinton. Just help us look at that.

DAVID AXELROD: Yeah, though I must say that I think that, well, Hillary Clinton was as tough an adversary in politics as you can have. But the truth is that they weren't, what they were fighting for was not so dissimilar. Sometimes, you know, you come up against opponents whose goals are completely antithetical to yours and, you know, I think that in those cases his instinct is to win. And certainly his instinct in the primaries was to win, to prevail.

You know even in the world, you have to deal with some very bad people and there's some who need to be crushed, and he understands that, but in order to crush them you've got to build alliances and you've got to be willing to work with people. He has that ability.