DAVID BRANCACCIO: NOW on PBS.

Voices from the disaster zone. The harrowing ordeal of the evacuees...

ISAAC SCOTT: Canal Street was like Fort Knox and everywhere else was a shoot-em up Western.

BRANCACCIO: The problems that have plagued rescue and relief efforts.

MITCH LANDRIEU: Nobody could talk to each other. And that is the thing that has to be examined more closely aside from who didn't do what they were supposed to do.

BRANCACCIO: The frustration of local officials left to fend for themselves...

MAYOR CAPITANO: They had no logistics. They had no game plan. They had no concept. I will tell you that to this day I'm still waiting for help for my citizens.

BRANCACCIO: Over the next hour, you'll be part of a candid, often emotional discussion of the storm, the aftermath and the way forward.

DEACON JOHN MOORE: Our biggest problem now is just get an accounting of these people and how to get them back to New Orleans so that our culture will survive.

BRANCACCIO: All that's ahead on a NOW town meeting: KATRINA: THE RESPONSE

BRANCACCIO: Welcome to a special one-hour edition of NOW: a town meeting to talk about the way forward from the Katrina disaster.

What we have here is a room full of people each with a very real stake in how this region pulls itself out of this nightmare. We've set up shop here in the main studio of Louisiana Public Broadcasting in Baton Rouge and invited to this conversation evacuees, rescuers, elected officials and other experts from New Orleans and the region.

I want to thank everybody for coming out tonight in these difficult circumstances. Quick show of hands: how many people here in this room have been driven out of their houses by this storm and are living somewhere else?

Thank you very much. Sorry that many hands went up.

You could repeat that experiment anywhere in this region around here and that happens unfortunately. Behind each of those raised hands are stories of life and death and we'll get to them in just a moment. But first, let's take a moment to take stock of everything we've been through.

Katrina cut a path of deadly destruction covering some 90 thousand square miles. That's an area the size of Great Britain.

The brutal winds and immense storm surge passed relatively quickly, but in its wake, this devastating hurricane has done more damage to the lives and livelihood here than any other natural disaster in American history.

The numbers alone are staggering ... Reported one million people displaced ... 400 thousand without work ... Almost 800 dead.

For the citizens of The Gulf Coast, the full impact will be felt for months and years to come. Family members and homes now gone. Entire communities completely dislocated. A way of life that in many instances has simply just disappeared.

REFUGEE: In all of this you wake up in the middle of the night just horrified, because you know your home's gone, your community's gone, your family may be gone. There's people that are missing that you don't - you don't know what to think about.

BRANCACCIO: In Louisiana, in the parishes of the Delta just South of New Orleans near where locals call The End Of The World, towns have vanished … reclaimed by the Gulf.

Residents here have been fishing these waters for generations. Now, their boats sit scattered … tossed aground like children's toys.

In New Orleans itself, the storm and subsequent flooding left some 80 percent of the city wrecked and under water. An entire American metropolitan area displaced — its residents living in shelters or with friends and relatives in far off places.

REFUGEE: We're going to Texas. I don't really know anything about Texas, but it's a relief because my mother is in Texas, my grandmother, my boyfriend's family, so we'll all be together.

BRANCACCIO: The Army Corps of Engineers says it will take a month more to fully drain New Orleans. Toxic and polluted sludge will have to be cleaned up and thousands of homes, many which still sit in putrid water, will have to be bulldozed.

The Fabled French Quarter is battered but at least above water. Political and business leaders promise that part of the city will be up and running in little more than a week — with hopes of even holding scaled down Mardi Gras and Jazz Fest celebrations.

While there will be work in clean-up and rebuilding. Thousands of jobs have disappeared or moved away. Many of those jobs are in shipping and that has a significant national impact. Until now, this has been the biggest transit point in and out of the country from grain to crude oil. It could take up to six months before the ports here are fully operational again.

The storm has hit gas prices hard as well. Much of the region's crude oil and natural gas production remains off-line. And four major oil refineries, which account for about five percent of domestic oil capacity, are either flooded or without power — out of commission perhaps for months.

For so many here, the storm has unraveled the very fabric of life. The Louisiana Delta has long given the country something priceless — its rich, cultural heritage.

Bluesman Deacon John Moore is no longer playing in New Orleans. His home gone, he's now living some fifty miles up the Mississippi and he's worried that Katrina has scattered the area's artists and musicians like everyone else.

The unanswered question is: will they return?

BRANCACCIO: The scale of this disaster is just so vast. Now, Joe Smith, you're from New Orleans.

JOE SMITH: Yes.

BRANCACCIO: And you have a brother that's disabled?

JOE SMITH: Yes.

BRANCACCIO: How did you get him out?

JOE SMITH:

Well, it was pretty difficult. But what happened was we didn't really suffer much damage from the storm. When we went to bed Monday night, we didn't have any water in the area. So we woke up Tuesday morning, water was at the first step.

So, waited a little while longer. The water kept on rising. So what I did, me and a neighbor of mine got together and we had tote him over to a school where we took refuge. We had to break the gate, the lock of the gate, order to get in the school, because there was no other place to go. So, after we did that, then of course other people started coming over. And, before it was over with, at least 500 people in the school.

BRANCACCIO: Five hundred people in this school. What was that like?

JOE SMITH: Oh, it was miserable, I could tell you that. I don't know if it was quite as bad as the Superdome, but it was bad enough.

BRANCACCIO: But Joe, what do you and your brother need right now?

JOE SMITH: Well, the most thing we need is a place to live. We need money, 'cuz we don't have northing. Everything was left back in the house. We didn't even get identification when we left home. So--

BRANCACCIO: So, you have to conduct your life without even your driver's license?

JOE SMITH: Without anything, 'cuz we had to get out of there so fast, we left everything. So we really ain't got nothing to go back to. So we need about everything you can give us.

BRANCACCIO: Got a plan yet or no?

JOE SMITH: No, not right now. But just take it one day at a time till it get better.

BRANCACCIO: Runice Governale, where do you live?

RUNICE GOVERNALE: We live in Chalmette, Louisiana in St. Bernard Parish.

BRANCACCIO: Now you brought - some kids.

RUNICE GOVERNALE: Yeah, this is Cody and Cory.

BRANCACCIO: Tell me what happened. You got at some point separated during the storm?

RUNICE GOVERNALE: Yes, we did. We stayed for the hurricane which we shouldn't have, but we did. And we got caught the next morning. Nothing happened. No water rised until the next morning. It came so fast. My son woke us up and said the water's coming in really fast. We look out the window, and it was just coming up. We got enough time to pull down the ladder and get up in the attic. And their daddy cut out a hole in the attic, and we stayed up there. But I had enough time to call 911 on the cell phone.

BRANCACCIO: Did you get through?

RUNICE GOVERNALE: I got through. And right when I told 'em my address and everything, the phone disconnected completely and we couldn't get back. But in fifteen minutes, a jet-ski came, and they took the children and the children on the next street. And they told us they were coming back for us, and they never came back. It was about eight hours. And some other people that was around there, we started helping all the people in the neighborhood, getting out and helping 'em on to the boat and bringing us to Chalmette High School, which we didn't see the kids till the next morning.

BRANCACCIO: That must have been awful.

RUNICE GOVERNALE: Oh very. We stayed up the whole night. I was up crying the whole night. And they were bringing in people, loads and loads. They didn't stop. I mean, it was really bad. I mean, you wouldn't believe it.

BRANCACCIO: So, where are you staying in Baton Rouge?

RUNICE GOVERNALE: We're staying at the River Center in a centra-plex. But--

BRANCACCIO: Is it all right over there?

RUNICE GOVERNALE:: It's all right. We doing-- But we just wanted a place to stay. Well, you know, my husband's up there looking for a place in Mississippi, and he's looking. And we have a place. He found a place, but we just don't have the resources and the money. He just started working again. And they want their own place and their own things. And we can't go back to anything we had.

I mean this is enough-- I mean the water, we never had any water. If they knew about these levees, all damaged, then they should have fixed these levees before this happened. And then all of our things wouldn't have been gone. I mean, we're not a people that have money, that can just go and buy the things we have. We lost everything. And that's all we want is a place to live. And start over. And-- I'm sorry.

BRANCACCIO: No, it's okay, Runice. You're very brave to even tell this story to us. So, your husband has found a place. But you know that takes, what, cash flow to do that--

RUNICE GOVERNALE: Cash. And we don't have the resources right now. He's trying. He's working. If even though we do get a place, what we gonna put in it? They given us food stamps. But they should-- Instead of giving us food stamps first, they should have found us a place to live and worry about the food stamps after! What you gonna do with food living in a shelter? You can't buy food! Where you gonna put the food at? We need a place to live.

BRANCACCIO: Well, the authorities, is there anything they can do to help you with that cash flow issue to get into a new place?

RUNICE GOVERNALE: Yes, if they would give us the resources to get the cash. But it's just not coming right now. We just sitting there waiting. And we been there-- This is two weeks today we been there.

BRANCACCIO: How are the kids holding up?

RUNICE GOVERNALE: Oh, they getting very restless. And a lot of people are getting restless staying there. A lot of-- They-- I mean, they're waiting and waiting and trying to get help. And when you turn to people to ask for help, nobody knows anything. We going in circles, and we're not getting any answers.

BRANCACCIO: Bertha Rideau, thank you very much. Now where do you-- where did you live?

BERTHA RIDEAU: In Merrill, Louisiana. That's right outside of Chalmette.

BRANCACCIO: What are you hearing about your neighborhood?

BERTHA RIDEAU: I just heard that it's you know soaked with chemicals from a plant that was damaged by the hurricane.

BRANCACCIO: So, it isn't just flooding. It's spilled chemicals is what you're hearing.

BERTHA RIDEAU: Yeah. Yes.

BRANCACCIO: What do you need right now, Bertha? I mean if we-- if we could

BERTHA RIDEAU: I need a place to live.

BRANCACCIO: Where you living?

BERTHA RIDEAU: I'm living at the Shiloh Baptist Church shelter.

BRANCACCIO: A lot of people over there?

BERTHA RIDEAU: There's about 20 families. But it's really getting crowded, 'cuz more people are coming every day.

BRANCACCIO: So, you need a place somewhere.

BERTHA RIDEAU: Yes.

BRANCACCIO: Any prospects of that?

BERTHA RIDEAU: Not at all. None whatsoever.

BRANCACCIO: What could we do? Or what could officials do to get you into a place?

BERTHA RIDEAU: Well, we need finances. We need money, and we need a place to live, you know? And we're gonna be out of our house for a long time.

BRANCACCIO: That's what you're hearing. I mean, that's what--

BERTHA RIDEAU: Yeah, because you know it's not just the water damage. It's all these chemicals and all from the Murphy Oil plant.

BRANCACCIO: Now just so I'm clear, it's a delicate question, but you didn't have much money before this started or is it you can't get access to what you have?

BERTHA RIDEAU: No, I didn't, and I have even less now.

BRANCACCIO: Lieutenant Governor, Mitch Landrieu. Thank you very much for being here, sir.

MITCH LANDRIEU: Thank you for having us.

BRANCACCIO: You know, you have responsibility in part for an entire state. What do you need? And are you getting it?

MITCH LANDRIEU: I think the immediate thing that everyone needs is to get back to normality as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, it's very difficult. A million or so people actually evacuated the city; some voluntarily early, some not voluntarily, but got out late.

We have 94,000 American citizens that are in shelters across the country right now. And of course our state and all the people sitting in this room are very thankful to the American people for their generosity and everything they have done.

But generosity is fleeting, and it will dissipate as the country moves on to other issues, like nominating a Chief Justice and affirming one for the Supreme Court or the next tragedy. We're all still gonna be here.

BRANCACCIO: The Mayor of this city, Baton Rouge. Kip Holden. Mayor Holden, how you holding up?

KIP HOLDEN: Oh, pretty good.

BRANCACCIO: When you go to your city and you see traffic now, yeah, what? More than 100,000 new residents?

KIP HOLDEN: We believe maybe up to a quarter of a million people have moved in. We'd look at the ones in the shelter. There are a lot of people in hotels, all the hotels are full. And then at the same time, you have a lot of people who moved in with family. So based on our traffic counts and some other numbers we use to quantify the number of people, we can conservatively say about a quarter of a million people.

BRANCACCIO: But if you're right, that's more than double your normal population.

KIP HOLDEN: Yes, it is, and we're beginning to see the big city growth problems. But what's more important that I don't get my priorities mixed up and forget about the suffering that this country's witnessed, because we will survive and transition through the traffic problems.

But I think long range, we have to deal with the emotional problems and grief of our friends from all over South Louisiana who are coming to us and saying, "We need help, and we need your assistance." And that's what we're there for, because we're a very compassionate city.

BRANCACCIO: But did you know in advance, Mr. Mayor, that you'd be essentially the giant shelter for most of New Orleans in advance?

KIP HOLDEN: Had no idea, because I think there was a lot of confusion going on in those early moments. We had practiced what we needed to do in case there was a major emergency. So we were in touch with everyone, and we supplemented the state resources to try to make things happen. But no idea in the world did any of us have that we would see a hurricane of this magnitude.

BRANCACCIO: Which may be a problem in itself that we'll talk about. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

President of the United States said the other day. The quote: "Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government. And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I," said the President, "take responsibility."

Phil Capitano, Mayor of Kenner, Louisiana. That's where the airport is for New Orleans. Not far from downtown Louisiana. You've been through a horrible time. Are you still-- Are you in the mood not to blame anybody, what kind of mood you in?

PHIL CAPITANO: Okay. I believe that there was enough problems for everyone. And you can start with the federal government. Any time that you have these types of event you would think that they're mobilized. The President of the United States called this emergency before the emergency which is kind of unprecedented. And you would think that some of these national agencies would then be ready to move in.

They had no logistics. They had no game plan. They had no concept. I will tell you that to this day I'm still waiting for help from my citizens. Red Cross, we're still waiting for them to come and give some assistance.

They have started fixing some meals. It came about seven days after the event. FEMA showed up about eight days after the event. Certainly, I think they could have been a little bit more mobilized. They could have been a little bit more ready for this emergency.

I'll tell who was ready, which I find unbelievable. Wal-Mart was ready. Now, we can joke about it, but the reality is is Wal-Mart put the logistics together to be able to give water and food in to my community when FEMA wasn't around. Now, how did Wal-Mart manage to get truckloads of water, truckloads of food to my community when others were still trying to decide where they were going, what they were gonna do and how they were gonna do it?

So I would certainly tell some of these federal agencies and maybe even a few states that they ought to go over to Wal-Mart and figure out how to do their set-up for them to be able to mobilize quickly and to have some kind of logistics to be able to bring in to these affected areas the food and water that's necessary.

BRANCACCIO: But you'd prefer that the whole job of disaster relief not be in the future subcontracted to a chain store?

PHIL CAPITANO: I would tell you that we're very grateful for Wal-Mart's help, but I think that the national government and maybe even the state government ought to you know rethink and retool how they're going to approach these types of disasters.

BRANCACCIO: Joseph Picciano who's the number two FEMA person for Katrina relief. We can get the microphone over to you. Mr. Picciano it's tough coming into a crowd of Louisianans as a senior FEMA official on a night like this isn't it?

JOSEPH PICCIANO: It's just hard to feel their pain and I can't even imagine the suffering that people have gone through and I've been through disasters for the last 30 years. I've never seen anything of this magnitude.

BRANCACCIO: You are a man of experience in disaster relief but you're actually new to the Katrina thing. You came in with--

JOSEPH PICCIANO: I came in later. Yes.

BRANCACCIO: Admiral Thad Allen has now taken over now that Michael Brown is out in recent days.

JOSEPH PICCIANO: Correct.

BRANCACCIO: What's your take on this, that FEMA did what it could in the face of a horrible storm?

JOSEPH PICCIANO: I really don't wanna go back right now and I think-- and-- I will be honest with you. There's gonna be a lot to look at and I and I think I'm hearing some of what's gonna be looked at but I think the important thing now is what people are talking about, you know, housing. It's really critical.

Getting checks and money to rebuild. Being able to have a community that's unified and together again and I think that all has to happen in a great partnership with both the state, the federal government and all the local officials. And we need to get on that now. We need to get travel trailers out so people can have temporary homes while rebuilding starts. We need to get addresses to get checks to people and we're working with the state to do that.

We've started. We've got I believe about $600 million already out on the street to about four or 500,000 people so we're moving forward but I understand the concern. I understand being without a place to live. I've seen it over the years. It's torturous and every day it's a little more painful.

BRANCACCIO: And we have people live right in the room like we're talking to Bertha before. I mean she looks stuck. She needs some money. That's what disaster relief can mean. I mean how does-- how do you put her need connected to the US Treasury so she can get out of there?

JOSEPH PICCIANO: Sure. Well there's a number of ways. We will have and we've already started. We have disaster recovery centers. Not enough, before anybody says anything. But we know we need to get more out there. We have a teleregistration number and I know the phone lines are blocked-- because a lotta people are calling in.

We have the means to register on the web page and again we know that's very difficult too. And even when you get on you may have some difficulty in understanding the process and you'll have somebody talking to you but the bottom line is we want to reach everybody. We have community relations people that will be in your community.

We have people here tonight if anybody needs to talk to anybody. It is a massive job I-- it just unimaginable. I've been in many disasters in the World Trade Center to hurricanes and different parts of the country. I have never seen anything like this and I notice the number of people talked about the scope of this event. I have never, never seen anything this size. I mean it just pushed our resources to the end.

BRANCACCIO: I remember there was a FEMA report from even before September 11, 2001 that looked at what are the big, bad things that could happen in this country and terrorism's on that list in the top three. Big quake in San Francisco. And there is was, a New Orleans flood, and you would've thought that you wouldn't be-- that you woulda had systems in place for lots of phone calls looking for aid and so forth.

JOSEPH PICCIANO: We do plan and we did have a plan and this literally exceeded-- the plan that was just exercised prior to the actual event. We can plan for a lot. You cannot plan for everything.

WALTER BOASSO: We need the financial resources to help these people who are not home. You know we got our parish secure now, and we're going through that process. But our people don't have the money.

BRANCACCIO: Is that gonna be from the Feds you think?

WALTER BOASSO: Oh-absolutely, it's gotta come from somebody. But $2000 isn't doing anybody any favors. We're gracious for it. But if you got to family of four and fine, you got food stamps. But you got to go buy stuff for the kids for school. We lost everything. Basically, I got four shirts and three pair of pants. And that's all I got to my name. And I lost my business and my home just like everybody else did. But 2000 dollars doesn't get you anywhere. And, and what I need right now is help from the federal government to give money to these people that are in shelters so they can get get their life moving again. The housing's gonna come to try and bring people back. But in the meantime, these people are running out of money. They cannot survive. And that's the biggest obstacle I got to deal with on a daily basis.

BRANCACCIO: Mr. Boiseau, thank you very much.

BRANCACCIO: Dr. Lopez are you here? Dr. Fred Lopez one account says that you were the last physician out of Charity Hospital as the flood waters were rising?

FRED LOPEZ: Well in truth I was on the last boat and became the last physician when my wading boots were left behind within the confines of Charity Hospital. I had to rush back in to get them and for that reason you can call me the last physician out. But, the reality is is that there were many of us there waiting until Friday evening to evacuate that hospital and it's really not fair to single me out as-- or anyone else out as the last one out. Many of us were the last one--

BRANCACCIO: Well as a medical man what is your top priority? What do you think you need to get through this right now?

FRED LOPEZ: Well it's not so much what I need quite honestly as I hear the stories around this room it's really the needs of our patients. We, in New Orleans and including Charity and University Hospitals, provide a means of healthcare for people who have no other means. Who are they going to go to when they return to New Orleans if we're not there? I don't know what's gonna happen to Charity and University Hospital moving forward.

BRANCACCIO: Where are they gonna go tonight? I mean some people who may not have the money to pay for treatment have got to go somewhere.

FRED LOPEZ: Absolutely. And many of our patients who were in the hospital were asking, "Where will we be going?" And can you imagine patient who's been with you for five days who's waiting for hemodialysis or other medical interventions which you are unable to provide despite having the knowledge and the capability to do it. But being restricted by virtue of a lack of power or a lack of resources?

BRANCACCIO: Anybody who has an immediate need right now can raise your hand? 'cause I'd like to hear it. Right now?

ISAAC SCOTT: -- everybody's saying, "A cash hand-out." Well that's good and that'll get people on their feet. I think that a lot of people could learn something from the WPA--

BRANCACCIO: The Works Project or demonstration--

ISAAC SCOTT: The Work Project Association.

BRANCACCIO: --sion yeah.

ISAAC SCOTT: Because what you have here is something that I don't think the country's ever had to deal with and that's a massive amount of displaced people and you're gonna get civil unrest.

BRANCACCIO: You're worried about that.

ISAAC SCOTT: I'm not worried. It occurred to me once. People panicked and had the police panicked. The Army panicked. Canal Street was Fort Knox and everywhere else was a shoot-em-up Western.

It was a horrific reckoning on a lot of people and I really don't think people are looking into the future of what are they gonna do? You've got estranged and alienated families all over the place. And you saw what occurred when people panicked. What is gonna happen when they begin to get restless again when the handouts stop?

BRANCACCIO: Well Isaac Scott so what are you asking officials? Like maybe you said the WPA--

ISAAC SCOTT: Where's the public redress. Give people a sense of self I think.

BRANCACCIO: A jobs program?

ISAAC SCOTT: Yes. Who wants to work? Who wants to help rebuild their community? I'm alienated. I was a man of means before this occurred. I lost three vehicles and about $30,000 worth of mill tools. It's my fault that I had a basement apartment eight inches below the dirt line let's say.

And I can't go back in and I'm lucky enough to have friends that had a place-- where I could be until I can get out of here. But there's a lot of folks here that don't have that and where are the resources for them? Because a handout it only helps-- it only soothes the spirit for a moment and then the money's gone.

BRANCACCIO: Well Joe Picciano from FEMA, I mean he's talking about a sense of self. And that's primarily when someone is safe from physical danger that's a reasonable request. Is that something that the federal government can think about?

JOSEPH PICCIANO: It's something we do think about. First there's the important thing of recognizing the extent of what happened here. Once that's established from our perspective we need to get into communities. We'll do it with crisis counseling. We'll do it with, as you said, financial assistance but that's not the end point.

There's the thought about rebuilding the city. Right now we're now thinking about long term recovery and what that will mean like what type of jobs that will generate. Our agency ourselves we will staff up locally here hiring people from this area. That will be our major emphasis in bringing the stock of people we need to do our jobs here and that will the thousands of people that hopefully we'll employ as this rebuilding continues on.

BRANCACCIO: Mr. Picciano just opened up a whole other area that I want to get to. These issues of immediate needs are not gonna go away and we need to keep focusing on that. But there is already, I must tell you, a national conversation going on about how, if, in what way this region gets rebuilt.

What are the top priorities for you as people start making plans for what's gonna happen not just in New Orleans for the entire region? Steve Perry, the former Chief of Staff for the last governor, but now running the-- we'll you're the president of the New Orleans Metropolitan Convention and Visitors Bureau. You've been thinking about some of this.

STEVE PERRY: We've been thinking about it a lot and talking with our partner the Lieutenant Governor a lot because he's responsible for state tourism.

For us right now everyone realizes the cultural economy, tourism and hospitality industry of New Orleans is the primary driver and economic catalyst. Eighty-one thousand people work for us. The working men and women of New Orleans they work for Dickie Brennan and Steve Pettas Restaurants. They work for the hotels.

We've got to have a way to bring those people back home because we're gonna have to have a twin set of plans, a plan for economic and business recovery but a plan for human recovery that begins with jobs and is followed by places to live and the opportunity to rebuild lives.

We have right now an opportunity to be a living laboratory for urban revitalization. We could not have done that if it had been a larger city like a Chicago or a Dallas or Houston. But New Orleans is small enough to serve as a model for how do we reconstruct neighborhoods, drive neighborhood redevelopment with schools and healthcare clinics and day care as well as the business side.

So right now you asked a question of what do we have to do? We've got to get hotels open. Hotels open not for self-serving economic interest but to provide the accommodations for the recovery workers, the essential personnel to rebuild that city.

BRANCACCIO: Deacon John Moore, blues man. What's your reaction?

DEACON JOHN MOORE: Well my immediate reaction I'm concerned about the arts and entertainment industry because we are the backbone of the tourism industry. And I'm concerned that the culture has been dispersed all over the country and we need a plan to get these people back. Fact for instance the Mardi Gras Indians who're a vital part of our cultural traditions, all the jazz musicians and artists and people who fuel the economy for the tourist in New Orleans.

Without them, you know, the tourist-- industry can hardly survive because we provide the arts and entertainment for these tourists that come in New Orleans. They come here because New Orleans is the most unique city culturally in America. There're only a few cities in America that have a viable culture and New Orleans is one of them.

We have the Mardi Gras. How are we gonna have the Mardi Gras without the second liners? The soul of New Orleans has been-- gone!

You know, I can't imagine the Mardi Gras Indians trying to form a parade and Dubuque, Idaho or some towns like that. You know. And you know people come from all over the world to experience our indigenous culture. And this culture has been spread all over the country and our biggest problem now is just get an accounting of these people and how to get them back to New Orleans so that our culture will survive.

BRANCACCIO: You're saying something very important here. You started with culture but you're talking about planning for the future of this region has to bring back the vibe of this area. And that means not just talking about the tourism industry or just bringing in tourists for Mardi Gras. But it's somehow bringing back the people who are the life blood of this city.

DEACON JOHN MOORE: Right. My personal experience there are five members of my band who lost their homes, they lost their teaching jobs. They have to relocate to other cities with their families.

And, one of my musicians we can't even find him. We don't know where he is. He hasn't contacted anybody and we searched the Red Cross, the hot lines on the internet. We haven't been able to come up with him. He lives in New Orleans East by the way and-- we're just hoping that he didn't try to ride out the storm because his house is under water.

My saxophone player's house is under water. My drummer's house is under water. My oldest sister who is a poet and playwright — she's written dozens of books about the Creole culture in Louisiana. Her home is under water. All of her writings, all of the precious mementos that she's accumulated over an entire lifetime is gone.

BRANCACCIO: Bertha, I wanted to get you involved in this discussion. You many have heard this statement in which a Congressman from this area was overheard in the Capitol talking about the storm doing what elected officials couldn't do, which is do something about the projects of New Orleans. And, God did what legislators couldn't. And then, on the table is this notion that there's some parts of the region that shouldn't be rebuilt.

BRANCACCIO: Well, what about your neighborhood? What if it's not a question of projects, but what if,and there's talk, areas that are most vulnerable to flooding, maybe people shouldn't live there.

BERTHA RIDEAU: I don't see why not. I think if these, you know, know, Corps of Engineers and the other people up in Washington knew about these levees. I think this should have been taken care of a long time ago. And, I don't see why we can't live where we've been living just about all our lives.

JEFFERY FAZANDE: I live uptown New Orleans about two blocks off of Napoleon Avenue, which is a pretty affluent street. A lot of people that live on the Canal Street side of that street, they're renting. So, when the opportunity to go back to New Orleans arises, they won't have homes to go to 'cause I'm pretty sure the hurricane is gonna end their lease. So, where are they gonna go? And, they'll probably be a low-rent community that's gonna be set up somewhere in New Orleans that they are gonna be shoved into.

BRANCACCIO: Marlin Gusman, Sheriff of New Orleans. When you're listening to this, what's your vision for the rebuilding ofthe region you live in? Would you give certain priorities to certain areas?

MARLIN GUSMAN: Well, I tell you, when I hear from all of the people is that we have a challenge. And, the challenge is for us to come up with new ideas, new programs. We shouldn't be bound by the programs that are in place right now. Look, I've had experience dealing with housing programs where you can get a soft second mortgage, or you can help with your down payment.

BRANCACCIO: You see those as incremental.

MARLIN GUSMAN: This is different. You know, We're the greatest nation in the world. We've rebuilt other cities. We can rebuild this city. We can rebuild it better. But, we can't be confined by the programs that are right in front of us. We have to do more than just give $2,000.

We have to give somebody a chance to rebuild their home. A chance to rebuild their life. That program maybe isn't in place right now. But, we can think of it. And, we can come over the program. The Marshall Plan wasn't something anybody dreamed about to rebuild Europe. But, they came up with it. They did it. And, that's our real challenge.

BRANCACCIO: Let me put a finer point on it though. I heard an expert who's edited a book recently about how cities tend to flower after disaster. Very seldom does a city completely go out of business, which is an optimistic thing.

But, he asked the question when, you know, how should New Orleans be rebuilt? The question is, he said, how should be it rebuilt for whom? should the needs of poor citizens, black and white, of all colors be very carefully integrated into these plans?

MARLIN GUSMAN: Well, look, no mistake about it, New Orleans had its share, and probably more than its share of poor people. People that were denied access into the real riches of our economy in America. But, that's part of our challenge, you know?

We can make the city better. We don't just have to have one set of jobs. And, maybe those jobs that we had ought to be better paying. Maybe we ought to have a better wage scale. Maybe we ought to have more opportunity for individuals to have a better place to live. A lot of being poor is where you live and your quality of life and your housing stock.

BRANCACCIO: Allen Eskew, businessman, architect. When you think about how regions can be constructed and rebuilt, and I'll put the question to you, rebuilt for whom? I mean some people worry that affluent, powerful people well connected will guide that process, but you got a lot of poor people here too.

ALLEN ESKEW: Well, we have our communities, and we have our neighborhoods and that's one of the great things about New Orleans.

But, when we really start talking about re-inhabiting New Orleans, I think we have to re-inhabit it in a little different way. And, hopefully those of us who are professional planners and designers-- all of us that come to the table to work will work with a sense of social justice because we have to bring our neighborhoods and our communities back. It's not bricks and mortar. It's neighborhoods. And, we have to bring 'em back neighborhood by neighborhood--

BRANCACCIO: You can do it if you have to relocate people?

ALLEN ESKEW: Absolutely. Absolutely.

BRANCACCIO: That's asking a lot.

ALLEN ESKEW: Well, we are relocating people temporarily. The question is, for those of us who are gonna be involved and be at the table in re-thinking New Orleans, and preparing to bring our community back together, it's what they come back to. And, I think that we have to not look at the past. We have to look at some great thinking ahead.

BRANCACCIO: David Voelker, oil and gas executive. What does rebuilding mean to you?

DAVID VOELKER: Oh, I think that's-- the oil and gas sector of the economy is gonna do very well. And, it has been doing well and is recovering rather quickly in the western side of the Gulf. And, a little less quickly in the eastern side of the Gulf. But, if I can take these few minutes and talk a little bit about New Orleans, I think New Orleans. I echo all that has been said here.

I think that the Steve Perrys and others in this city are gonna rebuild this city and be very smart about how it's done. And, the the Deacon Johns are gonna protect its soul. And, I think that if we do that, we all get in this ditch together, we-- got thrown in the ditch. Now, we have to do the hard part and get back down in it voluntarily. And, go to work.

And, I hope and with everything in me that when we put these people to work down here, rebuilding and recovering our economy, we put our people to work. I don't want anybody else's. We need those jobs from New Orleans. New Orleans people. Louisiana people recovering our own economy and our own society.

BRANCACCIO: Mr. Voelker you're next to an oysterman. Does this vision for the future of this region after this horrible disaster have to get sort of you two together on this plan?

MIKE VOISIN: We have never been apart. And, will it bring us to the table together more? Absolutely. You know, Charles Darwin said that "It's not the strong that survive. It's the not the most intelligent"-- and there are a lot of intelligent people in here-- "It's those that are willing to change."

And what I've heard tonight is New Orleans will change. We can't help that. It will change for the better. The things that weren't good about it, we have this great opportunity to make a change.

Our industry, the shellfish community, depends on oil and gas to be able to harvest the great bounty in Louisiana. We have a great bounty still here. About two-thirds of that bounty has been challenged. But, we will rebuild. We've already begun the planning stages to rebuild our shrimping fleet, our oyster fleet, our crab fisheries.

We first have to assess what the damage is. We have to get help. - I've been here my whole life. And, I don't-- I-- I've never seen anything as catastrophic. It is nightmarish. The help has come too slow, but it's coming. And, it needs to continue to come so that the culture, the heritage, and the things that we have will be able to be preserved.

BRANCACCIO: Berwick Duval you've thought a lot about this intersection of people and the environments in this region.

BERWICK DUVAL: Yes, I think one of the things that's somewhat lost in discussion is that-- we're not just talking about the City of New Orleans. Seventy percent of the population of the State of Louisiana lives in the coastal zone. Over a million acres of wetlands in the last 50 years have disappeared while this country has done nothing about it.

BRANCACCIO: Well, let me put it in a nutshell in a sense. I mean, you've been saying for a while that "you want to mitigate big storms? You have to preserve the wetlands. They can act as barriers. Costs money to do that." You said it out loud. People weren't listening.

BERWICK DUVAL: We, through the Governor's Commission, have been before Congress for the last ten years pounding on Congress, telling 'em this exact disaster will happen. If it hits New Orleans, you're gonna have thousands of dead people. We told them that five years ago. If it hits Lake Charles, Louisiana, which is to our west, the same thing will happen.

So, while we're talking about rebuilding, we have to address the vanishing wetlands because if another hurricane get-- is birthed in the Gulf tonight and hits further west, we're gonna have another million displaced people on our hands because we've allowed our wetlands to deteriorate and have done nothing about it.

BRANCACCIO: Ivor Van Heerden you study many of these issues, the effects of storms. Is there an environmental issue that has to be addressed first or concurrently? What's your reaction?

IVOR VAN HEERDEN: I believe in tandem in restoring New Orleans, and this is a 21st Century opportunity to craft a new city and really take care of some of the issues like education and medical facilities.

But, at the same time, as we rebuild New Orleans, we need to rebuild our coast. The coast is is — most of the loss is because of federal actions. Whether it was the levee on the Mississippi River or the nation benefiting from the cheap oil and gas that came from our wetlands, and the destruction associated with it.

So, if we could rebuild our wetlands in tandem, and if we run that restoration effort out of New Orleans, we will generate a lot of new jobs, which in turn will help sustain a lot of the cultural activities, the theaters through to restaurants.

BRANCACCIO: Do you have any sense of optimism that this can be pulled off?

JEFFERY FAZANDE: I'm a new home owner, and I'm trying to support a family and everything. Well, why do I want to bring my family back to New Orleans when this could happen again? And, I may not be able to evacuate this time.

And, I lost my grandparents. And, who wants to bring their family back here if they're not assured that this won't happen again? There's not telling when the next hurricane could come through.

BRANCACCIO: Had a query here.

NICK MUELLER: I'm the head of the National D-Day Museum in New Orleans, which is now named by Congress as America's World War II Museum. And, hearkening back to World War II, this country rebuilt 130 some odd cities that we had destroyed all over Germany and Japan. And, we did it in six years. Holland, a small tiny country of Europe, this little country lost its levees half a century ago. And, rebuilt the finest levee system, dykes, in the world. Rebuilt-- Rotterdam into one of the great port cities of the world. This is just a question of will and money.

We know what to do in disaster and how to recover. We weren't ready for Pearl Harbor either. We didn't spend a lot of time pointing the fingers. We got to work right away. And, we defeated two of the giant armies of the world. So, we'll build this back.

BRANCACCIO: All across the country people watching want to know something. And, across the country there can be disasters as well.

We just heard mutterings from Al Qaeda about Los Angeles. Tennessee scientists say could have a big earthquake sometime. They want to know that if something happens, that the system is set up to deal with that in an efficient way that doesn't leave people, in many cases in the way that some of you were left in recent days.

I want to a first responder. Sgt Gomillion, tell me where you work. You're with the fisheries.

BILLY GOMILLION: I'm with Wildlife and Fisheries Enforcement. Yes, sir.

BRANCACCIO: And, you were right out there in the thick of this when the storm-- when the floods were rising.

BILLY GOMILLION: I, along with probably 200 of my other brothers and sisters in this department. We were out there on the frontlines at four o'clock starting Monday the day of the storm.

BRANCACCIO: 'Cause you were in the boats.

BILLY GOMILLION: We were in the boats. Yes, sir.

BRANCACCIO: What-- here's my question: Last four years it is-- it can argued that Homeland Security meant stopping terror, mitigating terror, being prepared in case there was a terrorist act. And, given what your department's been through, your neighbors have been through, your friends, your family, do you have a different view of the term "Homeland Security" now?

BILLY GOMILLION: No, not especially. My view of Homeland Security is what I've seen these past two weeks with my department, with other departments coming in to join us throughout the country working hand in hand evacuating people, trying to take care of the needs as best we can. We got out over 15,000 people in a week by boat, by airboat, by whatever means necessary out of the City of New Orleans.

It was a tough effort. But, us along with many other agencies from all over the country did that to help the people of New Orleans. We wanted everybody off a roof. We wanted everybody out of an attic. We begged and pleaded. And, I think we did a good job.

But, no. My idea of Homeland Security hasn't changed at all. What I think it's done for us, it brought us closer together. I mean, you got to understand, it's tough for states to work together from different states. But, we did accomplish that goal and we mesh pretty well.

BRANCACCIO: But, shouldn't Homeland Security at the very least mean people not stranded on roofs for days?

BILLY GOMILLION: It should. Granted, I agree with that. But, in a catastrophe as huge as this was-- and if you weren't there the days that-- on the Monday, the Tuesday, the Wednesday, the Thursday, and the Friday of the first week, if you weren't there in the trenches, you don't actually know what it was like.

I mean, it was unimaginable. I can be honest with you. I would've never thought in my lifetime that anything like this could've happened, or anything like this I would've ever seen. But, it happened. And, we did our best to try to stop the problem when we could.

RACHEL ZECHENELLY: I do have a different view. And, my area of concern was we did an excellent job with meshing with these agencies from other states to rescue as many people as we did. But, I think some of the same issues that might've occurred around 9/11 with their rescue efforts were reflective of what we dealt with as far as communication between agencies. And, I mean, radio communication.

When you have an effort this large to rescue people, radio communication is paramount between agencies, especially if they're, you know, not from the same state, or if you're not within-- it's two state agencies, but they're not, you know, the same department. It didn't slow it down to the point where we weren't effective. But, I felt like if you can develop a communication systems that can be shared by agencies, not only from within your state, but throughout the country, I think we would've had a better communication effort in general between all the agencies involved in this effort to begin with between FEMA, National Guard, Federal Government, state agencies, and local agencies.

BRANCACCIO: Lieutenant Governor Landrieu, communications? I mean, that's part of Homeland Security. But, there has to be somebody at the top talking into an effective communication system. The line of command, it can be argued, need to be clarified.

MITCH LANDRIEU: When all is said and done, when everybody stops pointing their fingers in different directions and figuring out who didn't do what they were supposed to do, and who did, the one thing that will become painfully obvious is the communication systems that broke down was the single largest contributor to the difficulty that we had.

And that is the thing that has to be examined more closely, aside from who didn't do what they were supposed to do. If we can figure out that particular piece going forward, not to lay blame, then the statement, "There but for the grace of God go I", when there's an earthquake in another part of this country or perhaps tornadoes or perhaps flood, that is the single most important thing that has to get fixed.

BRANCACCIO: I want to hear about people's-- if they have an evolving idea of Homeland Security, or if their definition of Homeland Security-- this gentleman here. You're with Catholic Charities.

JIM KELLY: I am.

BRANCACCIO: Tell me your name.

JIM KELLY: My name's Jim Kelly.

BRANCACCIO: Mr. Kelly.

JIM KELLY: I find it interesting in our discussion that haven't talked about faith because the people in this room have seen lots of miracles in the last two weeks.

Couple of-- last week, I ended up on a caravan that went to Armstrong Airport to bring back 325 frail, medically fragile, elderly on school buses. And, when we came in from the tarmac, and we opened up the door to baggage claim, there as far as the eye could see were frail elderly.

Well, after a while I wandered upstairs. And, I ended up wandering down to gate D1, the same gate that two weeks ago I took my daughter off to college. And D1 was covered with a tarp and the lights were very dark and very dim. And, I walked into D1 and there on stretchers were 30 frail elderly who were dying.

And, there was a nurse. And, there was a doctor. And, I didn't know what else to do. So, I got down on my hands and knees and I started to pray with each of those elderly.

BRANCACCIO: Jim, I want to ask you, I bumped into a Louisianan just chatting today. And, she said everybody was talking about all this blame that has to go around for the rescue. But, there's one group of Louisianans that are not to blame. The people of Louisiana. People who have individually made heroic bids to save people, to shelter people. Surely, there's more work to be done.

JIM KELLY: There's a lot of work to be done. We can take people out of shelters, and we can put them into temporary housing. But, that won't help to rebuild their lives. We are talking about people without a simple thing as a driver's license or a car or a job. We're talking about the dignity of the individual. And, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of people.

We have a large and a huge task ahead of us. But, I think the people are what will drive us. And, the idea that we believe in hope.

PHIL CAPTIANO: You know, right now is really soon after this event. And, there's still a mourning process that our communities are going through with lost families, with lost lives. Some of us don't even know where our relatives are right now.

But, after this process is over, we'll all have the opportunity to stand and review everything that's happened. And, I'm gonna tell that I'm inspired. I'm inspired by the thousands of policemen and firemen and city workers and community leaders who came together and really did save lives and save communities.

I'm inspired by communities who have reached out and adopted my city and are helping us. So, we're seeing this community around the country start to come together. And, I'll tell you that I'm inspired by the people who have been out in the community and talk to. And, most of 'em that are away are coming back.

They do because the culture is here. Deacon is right. This community is unique. There isn't anything else anywhere in the country that's like it. And these people who will return. And the gentleman who talked about jobs, they're gonna be great jobs.

There's a renaissance that's about to happen in our community. And, it really is. It's gonna be a renaissance. There's great opportunity. So-- I hate to say that I'm looking forward because I'm still partly in that mourning process, but I am. I want to move forward.

I think our state and our people want to move forward. We want to get our lives back. We want to go back to our homes. And, we want to get back to improving our quality of life.

BRANCACCIO: Mayor Phil Capitano, thank you very much.

Thank you everyone. Our time for this town hall meeting has run out. But the conversation must continue and here's one way. You can go to our Web site PBS.org and tell us what you think about what you heard here about disaster planning where you live. And about the evolving meanings of homeland security from your perspective.

There are also some specific ways that you can help. For instance, tomorrow on many PBS stations check your local listings there's a special Live from Lincoln Center. It's called The Higher Ground, the Hurricane Relief Benefit Concert.

And a secial thanks to Beth Courtney and Al Godoy and the rest of the staff here at Lousiana Public Broadcasting in Baton Rouge. This wonderful station is right now celebrating 30 years on the air…and marking the occasion by putting new meaning into the idea of public service broadcasting.

BRANCACCIO: And that's it for now from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I'm David Brancaccio. We'll see you next week.

BRANCACCIO: Next week on NOW, we'll be looking at the coastal development in the path of hurricanes and other rising waters. Many say government policy encourages building along the coast but are those policies setting the scene for future disasters?

ROB YOUNG, SCIENTIST: We need to ask ourselves as taxpayers who should be paying for that beach replenishment? All of us or the folks who are primarily going to benefit from it?

BRANCACCIO: And that's it for NOW from Baton Rouge, Louisiana I'm David Brancaccio. We'll see you next week.

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