POV

A sick and cruel sport that should have been outlawed long ago.

by Rebecca Goude
August 30, 2009, 10:11 AM

It seems to me that the vehement reactions expressed here are primarily due to a cultural habit that is non-Spanish. The cuisine popular in this country, for example, that uses veal as a meat, or goose liver for pate, to name a few, are extraordinarly cruel and self-indulgent. Such living beings that are bred and raised to be slaughtered, exist in unspeakable conditions of abuse and torture. Anyone who is slightly acquainted with how animals and poultry are raised for the human table, know. All this is just to satisfy the human taste for certain kind of meat texture, for the sheer pleasure of the human tongue.

On the other hand, the bull bred for the ring -- bred to run and gore with all its given strength and die with one stroke of the human's sword -- dies infinitely more mercifully than the meat corporations in this country ever give to their fodder.

The death of a bull in the ring, where the victim might have a shot at killing its enemy, is actually the most fair death humans can ever accord to any animal bred to be killed. In a corpration slaughter house, the animals don't have an atom of a chance to defend itself, never mind killing its human enemy in self defense.

The deck is stacked against the bull. But in the world that feasts on animal flesh, and devise ways to titillate the human taste buds, what chances do animals have anyway? These animals may well envy the life of a bull.

Bullfighting is a cultural tradition. Before anyone accuses it as cruel, become a vegan.

by Hellen Tea
August 30, 2009, 8:33 PM

Although I've been a vegetarian for 30 years now, I have to give you
and your artistic team heartfelt credit for producing such a great
document to the women who, like all of us, have aspired to manifest
their innermost request.

The two lead matadors were a well-suited pair juxtaposing indigenous
and import. The stark reality of the "authentic" matador fighting at
large venues against the sincere expression of the aspiring Italian's
dreamlike nude dance was a definite coup to my sensibilites.

by Ross Estes Blum
August 31, 2009, 3:59 AM

Even today, and especially in the world of the Matador, it is a world dominated by men. As a woman, I am thirsty for female inspiration. "Ella Es Matador," as it documents the decades-long struggle for female Matadors to achieve success, does just that; it inspires me.

Mari Paz Vega and Eva Florencia are strong; both physically and mentally. They aspire to match the strength of the magnificent bull. When they look into the eyes of the bull, the respect for each other is palatable... and stirring.

Yet, when they face men, at every twist and turn of their career path, so many are quick to put down the female matadors by simple virtue of their gender. These same men are willing to forgive the faults and slip-ups of their own. But still these women move forward; with quiet dignity, grace, resolve and unwavering focus, like that of the bull.

Their love and respect of the bull is enormous, and their dedication to the sport, in its beauty and complexity, is complete.

An insight on the cruelty issue: I spoke with a Mexican neighbor, who although a little queasy with the experience of having seen a live bullfight in Mexico himself, he was made a believer when after the bull was quickly killed, poor people from the neighboring villages were given free, fresh meat to take home to their families.

by pk
August 31, 2009, 5:40 PM

When I saw that PBS/P.O.V. plans to broadcast a profile of two female bullfighters, I thought what next? Sexy dogfighters? PBS would do better to spotlight the centuries old counter-tradition that has tried to abolish killing bulls for sport throughout the spanish-speaking world, from Spain to Mexico and beyond. It is a movement that's recently gained force by passing anti-bullfighting legislation in numerous Spanish cities. Indeed, polls show that for more than twenty years the majority of Spaniards favor banning bullfighting. The Roman catholic Church has issued anti-bullfighting statements and edicts since 1567. That is where the world is headed. Why doesn't PBS spotlight this movement?

by sandra m
September 1, 2009, 2:58 PM

On one hand PBS defends the vulnerability of animals at the hands of humans through many excellent educational programs, then it turns around and glorifies a sport that kills animals soley for the entertainment of humans. Your hypocrisy just lost my support for your organization.

by Diana
September 1, 2009, 5:37 PM

I salute these brave women and look forward to watching this film on PBS.

When I read Hemingway back in University, I wondered what my reaction would be at a real corrida.

I was lucky enough to visit Madrid a few times and remain fascinated by the ballet of danger and skill that plays out in the arena.

The people that I've met who disdain bullfights are those who usually have not read up on it or understood it, let alone watched it.

My only regret is that I did not get to see Christina Sanchez before she retired.

by Dave
September 1, 2009, 6:07 PM

I who has never attended a bull-fighting, nor am I particularly pro-bullfighting, applaud Dave's comment as thoughtful and honest.

by ht
September 1, 2009, 6:26 PM

Thank you, Helen and Dave for your insightful observations and comments. What the anti-taurinos won't accept is the fact that banning corridas de toros would result in the ultimate demise of this beautiful and powerful animal, since they are too costly to raise without the ganaderos profitting from the business of bullfights. Is that what the antis prefer, the extinction of el toro bravo? The hipocracy of human carnivores who devour beef cattle by the millions each year, then denounce the cruelty to fighting bulls, is absurd and the argument is baseless. I would gladly reincarnate as a toro bravo, live the life of royalty for four years, and die an honorable death in the bullring, or survive with an indulto and live out my years as a bull stud. Que viva La Fiesta Brava, long live the bullfights!! Ole Mari Paz Vega y Eva Florencia, enhorabuena, toreras.

by Armando J. Alvarez
September 1, 2009, 7:59 PM

Matadora

que viva Espana y que viva la Matadora , ole y al que no le guste que vaya a coje poe saco

by Martinez
September 1, 2009, 10:59 PM

The best sport ever

I just saw this tonite i love it.i have had the chance to see something like this up front and upscale
i was 1st introduced to this in the early 90`s and it is great something to really see and understand your innerself

by jesse
September 1, 2009, 11:00 PM

yes but no, definitely maybe

I am please by the conflict produced by this POV. It is misunderstood; maybe not apropriate for the 22nd century but in the 21st, we need to address our mortality since when we experience death, our loved ones are taken away and not seen again until the funeral services with makeup and it is so sterile. Myth, religion, and art were a primitive response to death and our humanity has been lost when we coat it with sugar by leaving it up to strangers to look after our dead loved ones at the funeral home.

by Alejandro
September 1, 2009, 11:10 PM

Las Fiestas Bravas Viven

This documentary has touched my heart. The heart and soul of my heritage lives on in the bullring... and modern women have claimed their place in the plaza de toros. The epitome of grace and beauty spills blood on the sand...the poetry. This is why Spaniards know how to live, because death is just a turn of the head away.

by Carmen L. Santos
September 1, 2009, 11:10 PM

I have never seen a bull fight and most likely never will (nor really want to) but I so thoroughly enjoyed
this program and admire these two women. I was touched by their sincerety and conviction. I wish them
well and hope their dreams come true.
Thank you POV and WQED for a great program!

by Babs
September 1, 2009, 11:12 PM

Simply Amazing! This program allowed me to shed my American view of this sport and gain and understanding of this beautiful display of athleticism and art. The fact that these are women made it that much more interesting. Their quest for excellence was felt throughout the film. The Machismo that is often associated with this sport was shed. The women evoked us to experience their journey and passion for bullfighting! Thank-you PBS for this enlightining program. I was channel surfing this evening and you won me over! I will be sure to check the schedule so that I can see the entire show.

by Craighton Barry
September 1, 2009, 11:16 PM

Beautiful film

which increased my understanding greatly. Thank-you.

I find it highly ironic that people who most likely would never dream of risking their lives in this, or any other, manner, are so willing to label these matadoras and matadors to be cowards. Pot calling the snowbank black?

Ironically as well, it occurred to me as I watched this film that it seems that the men who hold these women back are cowards. That news reporter reading the story about the one lady's retirement said as much. I translated from the Spanish and the English caption "we are male chauvinist pigs who cannot handle the competition, therefor she had to retire."

They fear that the women will indeed do as well? Apparently, else they would not block their careers at every turn and would let them succeed or fail on their own merits.

Now I will be reading more about this risky elegant art form, which apparently also serves to feed the poor.

by Mary
September 1, 2009, 11:17 PM

Compelling Story

I'm not a fan of bullfighting, but I think I can understand the cultural significance and tradition of the sport. Do I think the sport should continue? Probably not. But this doc is not about that debate. It simply tells a very compelling story of two amazing women pursuing their passion. Congratulations and thanks to the filmmakers.

by Michael deleon
September 1, 2009, 11:51 PM

Con la mano no se tapa el cielo!

For those who keep beating a dead horse, by comparing bull fighting to animal farming you need to get a grip. Animal farming is cruel because of the way animals are treated as none feeling accessories to modern society need to over eat and self indulge. On the other hand bull fighting is a cultural accessory brought down through the ages as a means of self identification and a desperate blind need to hang on to glory that has long passed. What was dismaying about this film was the need to romanticize the sport and women in it. It is as shameless as Americans applauding women in combat. The ability to kill an animal for sport is not a redeeming asset!!!

What was missing in this film was the long and torturous journey the bull makes to his death. Once los picadores y banderilleros are through with the animal there is little left for the matador to kill. The film shows a bit of that by showing the blood flow from the bulls spine. What Spaniards and Latins are in love with is the cape technique and dare of the matador. It would be a far better sport if the fighter and the bull would just spar and let the bull live. Except that if that would be allowed, eventually the bulls would learn how to parry and finally overcome the matador. That has been a historical fact.

From the get go, the bull is the loser. No matter how brave the animal is or strong, the entire spectacle is for the glory of the killer and the national pride and ego.

El traje de luz (costume) was designed to "level the playing field'" if that's what you want to call it. The mirrors are supposed to draw the bull in. But that too is a sham and a lie. The bull is terrorized and confused so that the end game is nothing but a cheap slaughter.

These film makers are trying to show how women can be as brave, and romantic as men and as good as them in la corrida. But what they have revealed is that women also are as machista as men. There might be a direct connection between the woman's sense of power in her place in these societies. For one, la matadora who also paints reveals that in her work. For me the film makers although reveal the strength of these women in the face of such misogyny, they fail to even question the very nature of the blood sport. And no matter who says what -- it is a blood sport and the playing field is not even!

Con la mano no se tapa el cielo! You can not cover the sky with your hand. In other words, you cannot hide a problem in front of your eyes. What's with these film makers. Definately a lost opportunity to reveal a more complex story.

by Ardiente Pensar
September 1, 2009, 11:57 PM

Tom of Florida

Years ago, I wrote a newspaper article about spanish bullfighting which won an award, and so I really appreciated seeing this documentary. I was introduced to the spectacle by a portuguese friend (they have wonderful and even zannier bullfighting in portugal) who explained the whole mythology of the bull and the matador, and its many symbolic and poetic even religious implications for the culture.

Imagine this sport in the US, with all our injury lawsuits!!! HA!

by Tom of Florida
September 2, 2009, 12:19 AM

Great Doc.

I love most of the documentaries and videos I have seen on POV. I have been watching it since the early 80's.

I admire the passion of the people, competitors and fans, involved in this sport. I am not a fan of it, but I do not condemn the people who like it. Kind of like how one might like American Football, but not what 'Football' is to every other nation (Soccer) or Rugby. Like any sport or even in business you have to fight for your chance all the time. Noone 'let's' you in. You have to earn it. Not only in how you compete, but in how you make friends with your team mates or co-workers. I never played sports as a youngster, but I do understand that much of the camaraderie is spent in the locker room after the game or at the bar after work. This is where you can be where prying eyes and people that may not understand your passion should not be. That is why the news people want to be there and this is also why the competitors do not want them there. Not because someone is a female or anything like that. It is because they want to have the chance to let their guard down and not be judged for it. I wonder how our society would view a reporter going into the US Women Gymnastics locker room when they are wearing nothing but a towel. But that is 'OK' in American Pro-Football or Baseball?

Death can be sad, but still is a part of life we will all have to face. I agree with the posting earlier of how the living conditions of animals intended for slaughter are cruel. This I have seen myself. Being what we are, carnivores, makes us killers in a way. I am OK with that. I do wish we would start to treat the animal with some more respect though. I have no problem killing them, just that they lived something of a comfortable and natural existence. Free Range and that kind of stuff. I have noticed how some of the most prized and best tasting meats are from animals that have lived in a natural setting. (i.e. Tuna, Kobe Beef.)

I saw these two women as people doing what they love. Regardless of their gender or passion it was still a beautiful thing. Like most of the POV videos.

...BTW, it did not hurt that they were both HOT!!!

by Kevin
September 2, 2009, 1:41 AM

human

Bullfighting is a barbaric show from a Middle Age entertainment transposed into our times, no matter that a woman finds it something she must do to appease ghosts in her past, despite the symbolism of the bull as guardian spirit, another hold over from the Middle Ages, w/ the animal already mortally wounded before a sword thrust followed by a firm thump on the head to kill the animal. The note that the practice is controlled by BIG BUSINESS men is familiar - a tawdry practice to make money while working people in Spain are experiencing a deep economic Depression w/ high levels of unemployment. I too am +_on the side of the bulls_ +, who in Anatolia are killed w/ a true respect for village feasts.

by Lee Ferrell
September 2, 2009, 1:59 AM

No bounds

It is amazing how people are so unaware of their ethnocentric self righteous views and bad mouth something they do not know, understand or have ever witnessed. Some people's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

by Ron
September 2, 2009, 2:19 AM

Good Doc

Good documentary! I am a cinematographer. I shot a piece on Maripaz Vega in the early 2000's. She was a very genuine and quick witted person (tenia sal). We shot her during a week that lead up to a fight in the main Plaza de Torros, DF. She was whistled and given a hard time. I think because of that and maybe also because she knew we were making a doc about her, she went to her knees in front of the bull's gate. There is a name for the maneuver but I can't remember it. Suffice it to say it is a very brave and reckless thing to do. She was immediately trampled. So it was good to see that she has healed, progressed, and continues.
I have a contradictory view of bullfighting. I find it brutal and cruel but as the old expression goes, I find it:

"Indefensible pero iresistable"

Regardless of how many people view bullfighting I think your doc pointed out universal themes and questions about dreams and traditional roles of gender being challenged. I wish it had been longer. That's the best compliment I can pay to it.

by Neil DelaPeña
September 2, 2009, 2:36 AM

GIVE ME A BREAK!

This horrible "sport" is nothing more than ANIMAL CRUELTY FOR ENTERTAINMENT.

How dare anyone compare this disgusting 'slaughter for entertainment' to social justice issues.

This has nothing to do with 'women's rights' (maybe, inadequacy or orientation issues),so keep your pants on.

The inclusion and comparison of butchering animals to 'sports' is an insult to true athletes.

This is about ANIMAL RIGHTS.

This PBS program reflects a morally bankrupt part of society with an inability to feel compassion, empathy or mercy to Earth's fellow creatures.

It makes no difference what sexual orientation an animal killer. The only thing that grabs you about this is that MANY women have empathy for a creature suffering and in pain... not be the one who wants to inflict it.

This is just as sick and unethical as canned-hunts, bear-baiting, ariel-hunting, denning, dogfighting, horse-wrestling (another disgraceful local 'tradition').

The bulls are given drugs &/or electric shock, then ultimately, their heartbreaking fate is sealed with swords &/or knives.

The treatment of animals in ancient Rome is looked down upon. The Romans brutality toward 'gladiator animals' was cruel and inhumane... acts that "would not be accepted in the modern world". So I ask, what is the difference?

As for the bullfighting individuals who grotesquely state that they "admire & respect the bull'... feel that 'the bull is a part of' them and that they are 'nothing without the bull"... ARE YOU @$#*& SERIOUS? I would not want to see what they would do to some poor creature they DIDN'T like.

This is a real dissapointment coming from PBS.

by Julie S
September 2, 2009, 2:38 AM

No Sesos

No bounds,
There is no ethnocentric issue here. Being dismissive reveals ignorance. One can then say that objecting and criticizing the practice of female genitalia mutilation in barbaric cultures is ethnocentric righteousness. What universe are you living in? Torture and cruelty is just that, any where on this planet whether to animals or humans.

by Ardiente Pensar
September 2, 2009, 2:47 AM

Duality of the Beautiful and the Brutal

I was mesmerized by the film. I found it difficult to watch, and yet absolutely beautiful in the grace and dexterity of the protagonistas and the storytelling. Mari Paz said that the bull is fighting for its life, which is very true- an unfair fight perhaps (of course I might not feel that way if a 2000lbs bull were charging at me). Do we find the profunctory mass killing of the bull practiced here in America more humane, even superior? Are we fooling ourselves? The matadors and the apprentice bullfighters appear to have a great reverence for the bull; a respect that Americans simply do not have- mostly because we are divorced from our food source and how much we owe to this majestic creature. Regardless, it was a very good and educational story. I appreciate the filmmakers bringing this interesting and thought provoking topic to PBS.

by Laurie Cantelon
September 2, 2009, 3:09 AM

MORE TO OFFER THAN HUMAN DISGRACE

I AM A VEGAN... AND YES, IT IS FOR ETHICAL REASONS.

THE PAIN AND SUFFERING OF ANY ANIMAL IS NOT WORTH 'FLAVOR'.

I AM THANKFUL THAT I DO NOT FEEL IN NEED AN ANIMAL TO DIE OR BE SUBJECTED TO VIVASECTION TO MAKE ME FEEL ATTRACTIVE (PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS, CLOTHING ECT.).

I HAVE MORE TO OFFER THE WORLD (AND ALL OF IT'S CREATURES) THAN THE KILLING OF ANIMALS FOR ENTERTAINMENT.

CAUSING PAIN, SUFFERING AND DEATH IS NOT A GIFT... THE UNNESSARY TAKING OF LIFE IS AN ABOMINATION TO WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN... IT IS INHUMANE.

I AM SICK OF THE PATHETIC EXCUSE OF TERM "TRADITION" BEING USED TO ALLOW CRUELTY AND INJUSTICE TO BE A SOCIALLY ACCEPTED PART OF ONE'S "CULTURE".

THESE HORRIBLE (YET LONG LIVED) "TRADITIONS"

* SLAVERY
* MARRYING AWAY (OR SELLING) OFFSPRING
* SUBSERVIANCE TO MALE SPOUCE

"TRADITION"?
THIS IS A JUST A TERM, A WORD AND COMMONLY USED AS A WEAK EXCUSE. EVERY CULTRUE IN HUMAN HISTORY THAT HAS TRIED TO HOLD ON TOO TIGHTLY TO THEIR "TRADITIONS' STUNTS SPIRTUAL/INTELLECTUAL GROWTH AND THE SOCIETY ENDS IN DISSOLVE (THINK, THE ANCIENT ROMANS).

HUMAN RIGHTS INCLUDE ANIMAL RIGHTS SINCE WE ARE NOT PLANTS (WELL, AT LEAST MOST OF OF ARE NOT).

ALL SENTIENT BEINGS DESERVE TO LIVE WITHOUT FEAR, CRUELTY OR ABUSE BY HUMANS.

by Julie S
September 2, 2009, 3:14 AM

Very good program. If you cannot see the beauty and art in in bullfighting then don't go. Bullfighting is bloody but it is not a "sport". Death is part of life. Cattle do not die of old age anywhere.

Thank you PBS for having the courage to show this program.

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by David
September 2, 2009, 3:22 AM

Sin Huevos

What ever you think bull fighting is whether sport or art, it is an inhumane way to entertain. The futility of defending a ritual that has been romanticized by its traditional customs and costumes does not redeem or justify its moral decadency. No one is disputing el arte del capote or los pasos del toreador, what is being questioned is the very principal of exploiting these customs to justify a senseless and brutal slaughter of an animal for entertainment and self aggrandizement. The same could be said of the Roman arenas, where human and animal blood was shed for the ignorant masses. It is pathetic that there are people outside of these countries that practice this barbaric sport, that think this is romantic. Go sit on one of these corridas and watch the bull be tormented and slowly because it is a slow and miserable death, die. Join the craven hordes who haven't the slightest idea what they are participating in. FYI, there is a growing and active movement in Spain and other Latin countries to stop this barbaric practice.

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by Ardiente Pensar
September 2, 2009, 8:48 AM

Ambivalent about the doc.

I don't eat meat or poultry, and have seen one bull fight in my life, in Madrid in 1971, where I was upset with the suffering of the horses. But, this doc. was well done, and so I did try to get through it. Again, you showed the death of the bulls, but when it came to the dream scene of the naked bullfighter, once again PBS blurs out the "intimate parts" of her body. That is obscene! Whom are you protecting. Children can see the killing of a bull, but can't see a naked human body??!!

by Artie A
September 2, 2009, 10:45 AM

Ella Es Matador

I truly loved the stories of these 2 women who live in pursuit of their dreams in a sport dominated by men.

by Mariluz Gonzalez
September 2, 2009, 10:49 AM

Fascinating & Repulsive

These female Matadors are truly fascinating individuals. I wanted to dig deeper into their character and drive.

The sport -- repulsive.

by Lorene Hernandez
September 2, 2009, 5:47 PM

Int'l military sales & Repairs Mgr.

EXCELLENT!
No hay nada mejor que una tarde de toros! y que mejor que las toreros sean EVA Y MARI PAZ. pagaria lo que fuera por verlas.
Todos los que nos gustan las corridas de toros es porque crecimos yendo con nuestros pades a plazas, vivimos entre los animales y el campo entendemos y apreciamos el arte de torear.

by OLIVIA YEE
September 2, 2009, 6:28 PM

Excellent doc.

Those who eat meat have no right to criticize bullfighting. It's that simple.

I am a vegan, who is not Spanish, and will not attend a bullfight. But I respect bullfight for what it is. Especially when the human participants are willing to put their own lives on the line in pursuing the dream, glory, profit, etc. Question: how many meat eaters who criticize bullfighting are willing to give up meat at this very moment to back up their words with action?

Bullfighting may not be your cup of tea. It may conveniently not be part of your culture. But do not condemn it so readily and self-righteously. Don't throw stones at others' cultural traditions because ALL cultures contain glass houses somewhere.

Bravo Armando J. Alvarez and bravo you all who don't judge this blood sport.

by lt
September 2, 2009, 6:49 PM

Beauty and the Bull

A striking documentary film, not only for its unique subjects but also for its visual elegance.

The dance of the bullfight requires an intricate piece of choreography. Each bull calls the steps to his own mortal pas de deux. This was well illustrated in dream sequence clips of a nude woman engaging a bull in the ring. Of course, in the USA, the woman's body was blotted with fuzzy, out-of-focus patches on her breasts and hip area.

Never one to appreciate the gratuitous slaughter of animals, for any reason, this film did not change my mind about that deeply personal, moral conviction. What bothered me most about "Ella Esta El Matador" is that the blood of the animals, even their gory deaths, are shown in full detail while the nude woman's figure is puritanically concealed. An interesting cultural idiosyncrasy if I ever saw one.

by Mari McAvenia
September 2, 2009, 8:48 PM

More information about it

This is a wonderful film. I am from Spain and I know a little about "corridas de toros". I understand it is difficult to understand this world, but once you know it from inside (people, animals, rancher.....)you realize that this people really love the animal and they feel it like an art. It is magic but you have to feel it deep inside.
Here you can find information about an association of friens of Mari Paz Vega: http://ptaurinamaripazvega.blogspot.com/
Please, first try to undertand and after express your opinion.
Saludos desde España.

by Javier
September 3, 2009, 5:55 AM

"She is the Matador"

I WAS SHOCKED AND VERY DISAPPOINTED THAT POV WOULD AIR A PROGRAM CONCERNING SUCH A BARBARIC, INHUMANE, CRUEL AND UNJUST THEME. I DON'T CARE WHO 'SHE' IS, OR WHAT THE COUNTRY THINKS OF THIS SO-CALLED 'SPORT'. IT HAS NO PLACE ON PUBLIC TELEVISION AND SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN SHOWN. 'SHE' MAY BE A MATADOR OVER THERE, BUT HERE, SHE IS A COWARD.

by Barbara from Hanahan, SC
September 3, 2009, 11:37 AM

Cruel and archaic.... how can a country (culture) continue in such a inhumane "sport"???!!! I will not watch.

by Barbara Riggio from Glen Mills, PA
September 3, 2009, 10:02 PM

Ole!

Hardly a documentary that failed to excite, though I would argue that bullfighting is much more than a "sport". Aficionados understand. I grew up with bullfighting in my blood, and quickly abandoned my boyhood dreams of appearing in a plaza de toros when tossed in the air by a calf. The film-makers deserve an ear and a tail for showing that Mari Vega and Eva Florencia have courage!

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by G.A. Smith from Dover, Delaware
September 3, 2009, 10:37 PM

TRUE ART!

I could feel the passion in Her heart! see the intensity in Her eyes! Mari Paz Vega, SALUDE! As for the film makers, BRAVO! An EXCELLENT PIECE OF WORK!

by barbara dollard from rancho cucamonga, ca
September 4, 2009, 9:12 AM

Ella es el Matador - A fantastic film

A fantastic film by the producers and Maria Vega who portrayed the lives of women in a country dominated by men. A great production and one never to be forgotten.

It is not cruel in comparison to poachers who ravage the jungles of many continents and plunder sea life.
It would be great to see this film again whenever it is possible.
R. Turner, Los Angeles, California, September 4, 2009

by R. Turner from Los Angeles, California
September 4, 2009, 10:48 PM

Bravo POV

Thanks for showing this film and taking us beyond the cliches and misinformation that is constantly touted about by people who have never seen a corrida or have bothered to learn anything about the amazing fighting bull.

The fighting bull is allowed to live three times as long as domestic beef cattle and it spends these years living like a king, roaming freely on huge ranches. The females and the males used as stud bulls live out their entire lives on these ranches. The business of the corrida is what guarantees these animals such a wonderful life. Ban the corrida and you condemn the species to extinction as they are too expensive and dangerous to raise without a lot of compensation.

After the bull dies in the ring it ends up on a someone's plate, but the difference is that the toro bravo had an amazing life - better than any other species that is consumed by man.

And the manner of the fighting bull's death? I find it to be infinitely more humane than the slaughterhouse and the wretched life that the cattle suffer through beforehand.

by Robert from New York, NY
September 5, 2009, 12:04 AM

Bull fighting affectionado

I find this story of these brave women; very inspiring. As usual men have to have the it their way. Bravo! Brave Women. Keep up the spirit.
I have seen the Portugese Bull fights. They are supposed to be bloodless, but still Matadors get gored. Even the horses.

by Beverly Cisneros from Stockton, California
September 5, 2009, 12:45 AM

Three women bullfighters are appearing in Mexico City - Sept 6, 2009

By the way, tomorrow, September 6 - three women are performing in the largest bullring in the world - La plaza Mexico in Mexico City. They are Lupita Lopez, Hilda Tenorio, and Elizabeth Moreno. A very rare afternoon in the bullring. Here's wishing all of them luck. Suerte!

by Robert from NY, NY
September 5, 2009, 10:19 AM

Ella Es El Matador

After reading the reactions of most of the people who have addressed this film, I have to wonder if this is not why the world is in such misery today. Why must people try to force their beliefs and prejudices on others? Some of the comments sounded very alarmingly similar to that of a terrorist mentality. What some consider art may not be their taste but why is it impossible for them to live and let live? They don't have to partake in the viewing of such a great film....that's why "off" buttons exist! The worst part is that they missed the beach for the grain of sand. This film, apart from being beautiful and dramatic, was about the stuggle of women in a male dominated field, a/k/a human rights!!

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by Monica Duarte from Oceanside, New York
September 5, 2009, 11:58 AM

respect

IS BULLFIGHTING CRUELTY TO ANIMALS? SO IS BIRD AND DEER HUNTING CRUELTY TO ANIMALS? EVERYONE SHOULD JUST RESPECT EVERYONES CULTURE AND CHOICES. EVERYONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT SPAIN IS A HORRIBLE COUNTRY THAT BREEDS HORRIBLE PEOPLE AND DOES HORRIBLE CRUEL THINGS TO ANIMALS.... FUNNY TO ME... WE HAVE BULLFIGHTING IN MY COUNTRY AND THE FIRST TIME I WENT TO A BULLFIGHT... I CRIED.. FUNNY CAUSE I AM NOT A VEGETARIAN SO WHY SHOULD I CARE.. BECAUSE ITS FOR THE SPORT?... WELL THE AGAIN HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU KNOW HERE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT HUNT FOR SPORT.... THE LAST TIME I CHECKED THE DEER HEAD IS STILL HUNG IN THEIR LIVING ROOM, SO DOES THAT MAKE THIS COUNTRY A HORRIBLE ONE?>ITS A CHOICE SPORTS AND CULTURES. THE MOVIE IS MORE THAN THAT IS ABOUT MACHISMO... HOW WOMEN ARE STILL TREATED LIKE THEY ARE WORTH LESS EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE THE SAME OR MORE ABILITIES.

by dquincere from elmont, ny
September 5, 2009, 1:54 PM

Glorifying torture of an animal is almost as sick as commiting the brutal crime. Perhaps we should work on financing to do a documentary on what happens when matadors are put into a ring with angry bulls without their weapons and assistants. Cowards with a sick twist.

by Anne from Reading, PA
September 5, 2009, 5:19 PM

Amazing

It shows women fighting prejudices to become what they are, and that there is a history of female matadors.
It also teaches you about bull fighting and how it isn't like rodeo sports.
In rodeos you torment an animal with little fear for your life.
But in bull fighting you not only risk your life, but are required to make a clean kill. Which gives the bull even more of a chance to kill you.
They showed the scars of one woman were fifty years ago she would have died three times over from the bull fights, as it is she has undergone heavy surgery.
I'm not found of the blood of the sport, but I can respect the danger the matador is put into.

by Elizabeth McCoy from Fairveiw Hights, IL
September 6, 2009, 1:15 PM

I appreciate this documentary for its insight of the people who are part of this sport. Also, I admire these women for their personalities and courage to pursue dreams where few women would. Being a vegan, I am all for animal rights but I kept an open mind while watching this documentary and feel I have no right to judge a sport so central to another culture's identity. Best of luck to these strong women.

by Emma Nebraska
September 6, 2009, 1:27 PM

I never really understood bullfighting until I watched these two women's stories. While I was disheartened by her relinquishing the dream, I am inspired by Eva Florencia's grace. And I am greatly humbled by Mari Paz Vega's absolute mastery of will, strength and spirit. This film has touched me in very unexpected ways.

by Bruce Silverstein from Los Angeles, CA
September 6, 2009, 4:08 PM

"EMOTION"

After watching these women on PBS im filled with emotion! I saw love, dedication, sacrifyce, and pain. I'm grateful i saw this show. I have always been against Bullfighting and animal cruelty, but i'm certainly not blind to how AMAZEING, and how far these two woman have gone to be leaders in this deeply traditional sport. Im shocked that peaple can be so calous and attempt to use these women to fight thier abstract battles. I SEE GREATNESS!!!!!

by Robert from beverly, massachusettes
September 6, 2009, 10:58 PM

Full marks to POV for having the courage to run this exquisite film. It's unpopularity is assured, given the blinkered and ignorant opinions that hold sway outside Spain, regarding bullfighting.
I could write a million lines on the subject, but enough to say that most of those who write against the ritual buy their daily meat on styrofoam trays at the supermarket, and never give an instant's thought, or thanks, to the animals who die, so that they might live.
The bull is revered, it's spirit observed and respected in the 'corrida'.
People, open your minds, and see what is really happening during a bullfight; listen to the words of the matadors in the film, esp. note "the bull is the guardian of my dreams".
That's an utterly poetic line, and speaks for all aficionados of bullfighting. Lorca himself would be moved.
Well done, PBS and POV and the film-makers!

by J.P. Gibson from Victoria, British Columbia
September 7, 2009, 2:10 AM

Women have achieved equality

Yeah, women have achieved equality, With creeps like Michael Vick. Slavery was a long tradition in America too. That culture is backwards, brutal, cruel and ignorant. Of all the things we could admire, helping children, helping the poor, being constructive, why do we admire some idiot who has to prove they are brave by torturing an animal that where the odds are so against it its a joke. That is not bravery. Bravery is working day in and day out. Sick sick sick and shame on PBS for glorifying a sadistic display like this. Never get a dime out of me after this.

by B Gomez from San Diego, CA
September 7, 2009, 2:15 AM

ella es el matador

i only caught the tail end of this magnificent episode of p.o.v, and it made something in me fall into a thrilled silence, and the hair on my body stand up.
i learned something totally unexpected about myself.
until today i loathed the sport of bull fighting. if i heard or read about a matador being injured or killed, something in me exulted, but watching maripaz i witnessed my previously fixed attitude fall away and transform itself into a transfixed fascination with the gestures and expressions of this heroic female engaged in her life and death drama. i dont know if mine is an obvious case of gender bias, but i suspect not. i truly feel that when a woman does something to claim her authentic self, as this woman did. that she herself, as well as the thing she claims is transformed. i know i will not chose to watch a male matador in the arena, but now i think i understand how male aficionados of this sport feel... and i can forgive them (including e.h) their folly.
yes, this is a brutal sport, and the bull is to be pitied. but after tonight's experience i am less willing to judge. watching a beautiful woman engaged in acts of elegant bravado, and transforming a sacrament of machismo into something different, fiercely beautiful and operatic opened my soul.

by dia tsung from denver, co
September 7, 2009, 4:52 AM

Matador: "He" vs "They"

This post is not about the question of whether bullfighting is a beautiful spectacle or a torture of animals. I will leave that argument to others.

It is about your own webpages "Anatomy of a Bullfight". In the illustrations of a bullfight, there are roll-overs with text that describe the stages of a bullfight. Is there not an inherent contradiction in presenting a film about women in bullfighting, when the text refers repeatedly to the matadors as "he" and "his". "He must perform skillfully...", "to demonstrate his mastery...", "turning his back...", "He must must attempt..." etc.

Considering the subject matter of the film would it not have been more appropriate and inclusive to use "they" and "their" in describing the matador?

by Baird Hersey from Woodstock , New York
September 7, 2009, 11:16 PM

Independent Producer

I suppose if we glamorize matadors, we should be called hypocrites for convicting talented people like Michael Vick for the Philadelphia Eagles. I see no difference. It is the exploitation of "cruelty" to these animals that is so unconscionable. How can PBS consider it ? Any people that removes Christian values from the fabric of its society to glamorizes perverted acts and twisted deeds into entertainment is sick.

by Southern Man from New Orleans, Louisiana
September 8, 2009, 12:45 PM

bullfighting

pov@pbs.org--bullfighting 9/1/09

In the bullfighting program PBS aired on 9/1/09 illustrating female versus male bullfighting job opportunities, bullfighting was presented as a traditionally male dominated occupation in which women are eager to participate yet considered inadequate. However, I saw the program of Spain’s entrenched bullfighting sport as a business where women are not traditionally marketable. The business continues in 2009 by glamorizing the bullfighting occupation for the youth touting it as prestigious and financially lucrative while glamorizing animal exploitation. As portrayed in the PBS showing, at the age of 16 Eva officially begins her bullfighting career in a male-dominated activity. Even Eva’s father did not understand the bullfighting sport, but as most parents do, they tolerate their child’s ambitions. Whichever gender trains for this sport, bullfighting is perpetuating the tradition of a culturally outmoded pastime. The bull dies no matter what happens and becomes a meal. To know that the matador has the power and skill to kill but not exercise that power is far more powerful than taunting, confusing and maiming the bull to force an intellectually deficient animal to succumb.

The PBS program stated the bull dies with the least amount of pain. The program implied the bull dies with one stroke yet I did not see video with a downed bull dieing swiftly nor dieing at all. Did I miss the scene of an instantly dieing bull? What does the least amount of pain look like that I missed seeing aired on PBS?

In my past I have witnessed bullfights and was fixated on the event. The crowds chanting ole; the matador’s posture swirling a colorful cape; the picadors and banderilleros piercing and weakening the animal’s neck muscles, plus the drilling and twisting of the pic to deepen the bull’s neck wounds (if executed properly, the bull will be unable to lift the head to charge the matador); the botched matador’s attempts at the final instant kill; the hot sun; the oles.

Bullfighting is really the forceful act of domination, while bullfighters seem to believe it is a contest of their physical and inner mental strength over the bull’s strength. Physical and inner mental strength is best experienced by rock climbing, hang gliding or crossing the oceans in a hot air balloon.

It would be appreciated if PBS would discuss the degrading aspects of animal cruelty. For example: ancient cultures abandoned sacrificial ceremonies; the British no longer promote foxhunts. Even the HSUS educates the public on inhumane farm animal treatment. Consequently, humanely raised chickens, cows and pigs are gaining public approval for consumption. Humane animal raising for the food consumption business is not a glorified superiority sport.

In the future, I challenge PBS to educate the public on the degrading aspects of cock fighting, dog fighting, puppy mills, hoarding, caged animal fodder, the meat industry and other animal exploitations.

Thank you,

Loisa

by L Liberman from Pittsburgh, PA
September 9, 2009, 7:14 PM

>>The Roman catholic Church has issued anti-bullfighting statements and >>edicts since 1567. That is where the world is headed.

Apparently the world has not been headed there very fast over the past 450 years. Actually the Church has tried at times to ban bullfighting on the grounds that it is a form of suicide by the person, not on grounds of cruelty to animals.

Those who would ban the corrida de toros would condemn these magnificent beasts to extinction. It is simply too much trouble and too expensive to raise them without financial remuneration and they are much too fierce to make good house pets.

I respect vegans. The rest, your beef and chicken was not born wrapped in plastic, nor was your shrimp harvested without tremendous environmental damage.

But it is true, the bull nearly always dies simply for art. It is not justifiable, but it can be magnificent art. I am not a matador but I have run with bulls in encierros twice and will again. It is an incomparable emotional experience. They are not animals which should become extinct.

I live in Mexico. I am guessing most of the objectors here live in the United States and Britain. Perhaps you should compare the cruelty of Spanish style bullfighting with the cruelty of your own societies' actions in Afghanistan. Aerial bombardment of civilian populations do not speak well for the humanity of a civilization.

by Lynn DeWeese-Parkinson from Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico
September 11, 2009, 11:44 AM

Ella Es El Matador

Thanks go to everyone involved in creating and producing this compelling and artistic film - especially to the filmmakers and the two inspirational principals.

As far as bullfighting goes, I identify most with the Italian mom... Nevertheless, I hope that PBS remains a place to air thought-provoking and controversial subjects, and plan to substantially increase my contribution as a direct result of watching this film.

It is generally understood that bullfighting is a macho sport. However, I've
never been able to comprehend how anyone could think that matadors looked masculine.

by Elizabeth King from Chicago, Illinois
September 11, 2009, 2:57 PM

Bloody sports that promise fame and profit, are acceptable to the public -- except when the players are women. That's what makes it controversial. Not so much the bloodiness or cruelty, but that women too want a piece of what is men's right.

I find the hue and cry from the public that are otherwise silent about the breeding animals for slaughter houses and the production of fois gras, for example, that these otherwise silent voices condemn bull-fighting -- especially because the fighters are women -- are a kind of hypocrisy.

by green t.
September 11, 2009, 6:00 PM

From a Former Bullfihgter

Bullfighting has been going on for centuries with men in the bullring.Now time has change with women bullfighters its great to see women bullfight. I see Mari Paz Vega doing very good and she will be in the bullfighters history as a great bullfighter . She has the art and its in her blood I can see it . best luck to you Mari Paz Vega you are doing a great job.

by Ettore Santillan from South pasadena, California
September 12, 2009, 2:09 PM

Bravo!

Thank you for this enlightened film. These two women are passionate and talented athletes and artists. A bullfight is a compelling and graceful work of art. Ernest Hemingway recongnized it.

by Buzz from Cashton, Wisconsin
September 14, 2009, 4:09 AM

I've heard the bulls have really enjoyed this documentary as well. Who cares about the artistry or culture of such a cruel sport and whether women are as good as men when it comes to cruelty to an animal? Definitely never going to donate to OPB having seen this.

by M
September 19, 2009, 12:54 AM

Ole!

What good Christians! I am sure Jesus must be very proud of them.

by Craig eliot from new york, ny
September 24, 2009, 2:33 AM

Bullfighting

In the bullfighting program PBS aired on 9/1/09 illustrating female versus male bullfighting job opportunities, bullfighting was presented as a traditionally male dominated occupation in which women are eager to participate yet considered inadequate. However, I saw the program of Spain’s entrenched bullfighting sport as a business where women are not traditionally marketable. The business continues in 2009 by glamorizing the bullfighting occupation for the youth touting it as prestigious and financially lucrative while glamorizing animal exploitation. As portrayed in the PBS showing, at the age of 16 Eva officially begins her bullfighting career in a male-dominated activity. Even Eva’s father did not understand the bullfighting sport, but as most parents do, they tolerate their child’s ambitions. Whichever gender trains for this sport, bullfighting is perpetuating the tradition of a culturally outmoded pastime. The bull dies no matter what happens and becomes a meal. To know that the matador has the power and skill to kill but not exercise that power is far more powerful than taunting, confusing and maiming the bull to force an intellectually deficient animal to succumb.

The PBS program stated the bull dies with the least amount of pain. The program implied the bull dies with one stroke yet I did not see video with a downed bull dieing swiftly nor dieing at all. Did I miss the scene of an instantly dieing bull? What does the least amount of pain look like that I missed seeing aired on PBS?

In my past I have witnessed bullfights and was fixated on the event. The crowds chanting ole; the matador’s posture swirling a colorful cape; the picadors and banderilleros piercing and weakening the animal’s neck muscles, plus the drilling and twisting of the pic to deepen the bull’s neck wounds (if executed properly, the bull will be unable to lift the head to charge the matador); the botched matador’s attempts at the final instant kill; the hot sun; the oles.

Bullfighting is really the forceful act of domination, while bullfighters seem to believe it is a contest of their physical and inner mental strength over the bull’s strength. Physical and inner mental strength is best experienced by rock climbing, hang gliding or crossing the oceans in a hot air balloon.

It would be appreciated if PBS would discuss the degrading aspects of animal cruelty. For example: ancient cultures abandoned sacrificial ceremonies; the British no longer promote foxhunts. Even the HSUS educates the public on inhumane farm animal treatment. Consequently, humanely raised chickens, cows and pigs are gaining public approval for consumption. Humane animal raising for the food consumption business is not a glorified superiority sport.

In the future, I challenge PBS to educate the public on the degrading aspects of cock fighting, dog fighting, puppy mills, hoarding, caged animal fodder, the meat industry and other animal exploitations.

by Loisa
October 2, 2009, 10:45 AM

A glimpse into Spanish culture

The ruthless nature of this sport gives outsiders deep insight into the heart of everything Spanish. Though it may seem a lethargic, lazily flowing river on the surface, the undercurrents are often fast and deadly.

Borges said that Latin America, in particular, was a society based on violence. It was certainly founded in violence. The conquista was uncompromising. Later, Bolivar placed among the greatest military leaders ever. I think he was bested only by Caesar Napoleon and Alexander, in terms of land mass conquered.

The documentary shows the intensity with which Hispanics, on both sides of the Atlantic, live...for better or worse.

by K Katz from Santiago, Chile
October 9, 2009, 10:57 PM

Subtitles/translation

In an unfortunate mistranslation, Maripaz' most compelling statement goes unread by non-Spanish speakers who are reading the subtitles. When explaining why she enters the ring, the subtitles state, "The person who wants to be a matador is searching beyong themselves." (...la persona que quiere ser torero esta buscando superarse a si mismo...) What she actually states is something closer to the following: "A person who wants to be a matador is seeking to overcome themselves." (I guess she refers to inner fears, inter alia.) To be sure, a difficult concept to express, but one which merits clarification in hopes that people better understand her POV.

by K Katz from Santiago, Chile
October 10, 2009, 12:08 AM

Spanish Teaher

I wonder if any of the negative responders, (those who feel that this is such cruelty), are aware of what cattle in the U.S. are subject to while in transit, and upon arrival at a processing plant.

by Robert from River Falls, WI
October 28, 2009, 8:53 AM

¡Ole, mataoras!

Seguir persuiguiendo vuestros sueñas y pasión. ¡Ole, maestras!

by Claire from arlington, VA
November 3, 2009, 10:53 PM