In "Bought and Sold in
Williamsburg,"Alan meets actress

"Lydia," as portrayed by Harriot Lomax, welcomes Alan to her kitchen.

Harriott Lomax who portrays house slave Lydia Broadnax, cook for the Wythe household. Lomax bases her portrayal of Lydia on documentary and archeological evidence. Though the real Lydia would never have had such an exchange with a white man, her conversation with Alan provides a glimpse of what life as a slave might have been like. Click here to watch portions of Alan's conversation with Lydia

ALAN ALDA Hello?

LYDIA Oh, good day to you sir. Now, did Mistress Wythe give you permission to come out here to this kitchen and disturb me while I was trying to get her dinner ready?

	I know how to cook. I don't think Mistress Elizabeth can boil water.

ALAN ALDA No, she didn't. I just wandered in. I wonder if I could ask you a few questions?

LYDIA You have curiosities for me, sir?

ALAN ALDA I do, yes. How long have you been working here?

LYDIA Well, ever since Master George and Mistress Elizabeth was first married, and that was back in '55. Master George brought me here from his plantation out yonder there in Elizabeth City County, Chesterville 'tis called.

ALAN ALDA That would be 1755?

LYDIA Why, yes sir.

ALAN ALDA And you work in the kitchen? You cook?
LYDIA I am the cook. Oh pardon my manners. Sir, my name be Lydia.

ALAN ALDA Lydia? Thank you. I'm Alan.

LYDIA Mr. Alan.

ALAN ALDA Okay. You're making a fish there?

Alan and Lydia with the fish prepared during their conversation.

LYDIA This is called a sheepshead. Get it from market. Master George ain't got no streams running through this property so we have to depend on folks who live out to the countryside. I do believe it comes from the James River. I need to put some more coals under there, I'm quite certain.

ALAN ALDA Do you make that according to a recipe that's been in the family for a while?

LYDIA Well now sir, A good cook knows how to season things so that they taste right now. You can't rightly eat a raw fish. But you know about how much salt and pepper and other spices and things you needs to put on there. Depending on the size, I bet sir.

ALAN ALDA I see. What else do you put on there besides salt and pepper?
LYDIA Well sir, I don't give away my secrets. But there be, as I said, some salt, and some pepper, and I put some rosemary in it. And, of course, I was gonna put in a little bit of spirits.

ALAN ALDA What would that be, like, rum?

LYDIA Oh no, sir, I used a bit of Rhennish for that. 'Tis wine, sir.

ALAN ALDA I see, I see. How long do you cook it like that?

LYDIA Well, 'til it's done, sir.

ALAN ALDA That would be a good thing. How do you know when it's done?

LYDIA By looking at it sir. You see, I've begun to learn how to cook from my momma. You see, my momma was the cook for Master George's momma. And she was the one who teach me how to cook. And of course, when I come here, I already knew how to cook, because Master George-- he want me to come here and cook for Mistress Elizabeth. See, I've known Master George all my life.

ALAN ALDA Right. You were born on this plantation?

LYDIA I was born in Chesterville, sir. Not too far from the city of Hampton.

ALAN ALDA Ah ha. And we're in Williamsburg now?

LYDIA This'll be the capital city of the largest colony in all of British North America.

ALAN ALDA Ah-ha. If I may ask you, how did you get a position in the kitchen?

LYDIA Well, like I said, momma, she teach me how to cook, 'cause she was the cook for Mistress Margaret, that'll be Master George's momma. And, well, I was about the kitchen with her. And I reckon she started having me assist her in the kitchen when I was, well, oh, I reckon when I was about three when I started. Of course Mistress Margaret, that'd be Master George's momma, she teach me how to read, write, and cipher right along side Master George and young Master Thomas, that'd be his eldest brother, God rest his soul. And his sister, Mistress Anne.

ALAN ALDA So, do you currently read now? Do you read books and things?

Lydia won't divulge her recipe for the Master's fish dinner.

LYDIA Well sir, I ain't got much time for that, you see. Master George, being as important as he is here to the colony and to Williamsburg, well, they always have folks coming in, so I'm always quite busy here to the kitchen. And by the time I get done with the work at night, I'm just too tired to be sitting and reading. I'm certain he would appreciate it if I would spend more time reading the books. But I ain't got time for that.

ALAN ALDA How long do you work in the evening?

LYDIA In the evening sir, well, way after the sun goes down. You see, I gets up in the morning before the sun, I then goes into the house and find out from Mistress Elizabeth what dishes she wishes I prepare for the dinner for the table today. And we have all sorts of things, like the beef and the ham and such. And I've got to have all that ready by--Now Mistress Elizabeth, she likes her dinner to the table at two of the clock every day. And when I speak with her, then we goes to market. Sometimes I go by myself to procure the things I'm going to need for the dinner for that day. And then when I get done, I come back, and whatever was left over from supper last night, I sends that into the house for breakfast.

ALAN ALDA What time do they eat breakfast?

	You see, my momma was the cook for Master George's momma. And she was the one who teach me how to cook..

LYDIA Oh, I reckon half after eight, nine of the clock. Whenever Mistress Elizabeth says they'd be ready for it.

ALAN ALDA So they eat leftovers from supper for breakfast?

LYDIA Why yes sir. Well, leftovers from dinner be what would be served for supper sir.

ALAN ALDA So the main meal is dinner at two o'clock?

LYDIA Yes.

ALAN ALDA And that lasts until about when?

LYDIA Well, now that all depends on how long them ladies and gentlemen want to be sitting around that table and talking about all sorts of things, politics and such.

ALAN ALDA So it might go two, three hours?

LYDIA Yes sir.

ALAN ALDA And then they take a break from talk and they think about things, I guess to talk about at the next meal.
LYDIA Well now I don't know if they have to think about things, sir. You know, there's always plenty going on around here for folks to be talking about. You know, what goes on in this one's house and what goes on in that one's house.

ALAN ALDA So then when do they have supper?

LYDIA Well, that would usually be half after eight, nine of the clock.

ALAN ALDA And that goes on until how long?

Lydia speaks freely with Alan about her life as a slave, though in reality she would not interact so informally with a white man.

LYDIA Well, that goes on until the folks be sitting around there, talking and playing the games, and drinking the spirits and tea and whatever else 'tis they wish to do for the evening.

ALAN ALDA Now, what about the cleaning up? Who does all the cleaning up? Cleaning pots and things like that?

LYDIA Well, there'd be ten and five of us Negroes here on this property. I'm the cook. I do the cooking. I go to market with Mistress Wythe. Now the dishes that she uses in the house upon the table, they don't come out here. Mistress Elizabeth has someone in the house to clean them up. But here, well, I see to it that the young-uns learn how to clean up them pots after all. Keep them young-uns busy, keep 'em out of trouble. You know, idle minds be the devil's workshop, but idle hands do, too.

ALAN ALDA Speaking of which, do you get a day off?

LYDIA Does your stomach take a day off, sir? Did you ever decide that you ain't gonna eat one day?

ALAN ALDA So you work from before sun up until falling down?

LYDIA Way after the sun goes down.

ALAN ALDA And you don't get a day off, either.

LYDIA No sir.

ALAN ALDA That's a pretty hard life. You don't get time off during the day, either?

LYDIA Well, now sir, you see, when I goes to market? If Mistress Elizabeth decides she ain't going to market with me, I go a little bit earlier. That way I have time to spend with folks at market. 'Cause you see--And I goes real early, 'cause the earlier you get there, that means you can get the freshest fruits, the freshest fish, and also the freshest news.

ALAN ALDA So what kind of news do you find useful to get?

LYDIA Oh, whatever be going on. Sometimes Mistress Elizabeth says she doesn't understand how the Negroes know more than she does or before she knows it. Well, I don't say it, and you won't say this to her, now will you?

ALAN ALDA No, I won't. No.

LYDIA You can keep a quiet tongue in your mouth?

ALAN ALDA I can, yes.

LYDIA I wants to say to her, 'cause the good Lord gave me two eyes and two ears but he only give me one mouth. And as long as I keep that mouth shut and them eyes and ears open, I knows a whole lot of things.

ALAN ALDA Does she then try to get information out of you about what's going on?

LYDIA Oh, sometimes she does. But, 'course, I don't know nothing. But if it was something that I did hear but I want her to know, I'll ask her about it, I won't tell her. I'll ask her about it. See, I wouldn't tell Mistress Elizabeth nothing. That wouldn't be polite. That would not be showing her the proper respect. I needs to see to my fish here, sir. Not coming along too good. I needs to put some more coals. Do you do your own cooking sir, or do you have a cook do it for you?

ALAN ALDA No, we do our own cooking. How about your family? Do you have a family here?

LYDIA Well, the Negroes here on the property, they'd be all my family. Master George brought me here and left behind my mother, my sister, my brother. And a fellow by the name of Tom--I believe he was gonna ask me to jump the broom with him, but, Master George brought me here before that did happen, so I never jumped the broom. 'Cause I ain't find nobody that, well, that had the fine qualities that Tom have. Like the fine qualities that perhaps you look like you might have, sir.

ALAN ALDA Have you ever been in contact with your family since you came here?

LYDIA Oh, all the time sir. Ain't seen 'em. But you see Ben, that'd be Master George's waiting man, he takes care of Master George. And wherever Master George goes, Ben goes with him. And when he goes out there yonder there to Chesterville, brings me back news about the folks out there. And course, when he goes out there, he tells them all about me. Everyone that I leave behind that I recall I always ask about them unless I've been told that they've been passed on. They've been moved on somewhere else.

ALAN ALDA And how 'bout here?

LYDIA Oh, I see all the children here. Ain't give birth to none of them. But the children here, theys like my own. I look after them, take care of them. Much like the folks did out yonder there in Chesterville, when I was a small child. They'd look after me because often times momma had her duties to do and she didn't have time to tend to me.

ALAN ALDA Did you ever imagine what might happen years from now? Have you ever thought about that? About how people who had been brought here from Africa might live in the future?

LYDIA I don't know about other folks sir. But you see, Master George, when we was growing up yonder there out there in Chesterville, Master George always said he didn't think too much about this thing called slavery. Well, the laws don't allow him to free us. That is, unless he goes down yonder there before the governor's council. And you won't say nothing about this, will you?

ALAN ALDA No.

LYDIA See Master George and Lord Dunmore, you see, that'd be the Governor…Well, Master George don't see eye to eye with many of the things the Governor wishes. And they have had some differences. So even if Master George was to go before the council and ask if we could be free, or ask for my freedom, ain't no guarantee the Governor that will grant it. The council might, but the Governor might not say so. But, I do hope and pray that one day things would change.

ALAN ALDA What would happen if you were suddenly freed right now? How would you get by?

LYDIA How I would get by? It would be how Master George and Mistress Elizabeth would get by. You see, I know how to cook. I don't think Mistress Elizabeth can boil water. She's always coming out here with her cookbooks. "Now Lydia, you want this much of this and this much of that." And then when I get it all together and have her taste it, you want to know what she'd want to know from me? "Now what have we done wrong?" Especially if it don't suit her liking. I want to tell her, "I ain't done nothing wrong. Mistress, I've done just what you tell me to do." But that ain't nice. So, you know what I say to her? I say, "Now Mistress, perhaps if you take a bit more of this and perhaps a bit more of that and add it to that, maybe it'll be more to your liking." And that's what I do, and she tastes it. And then, when it's to her liking, that's when I taste it. And that's when I know how she likes the things.

ALAN ALDA So if you were freed, you'd be able to get a job cooking?

LYDIA Well sir, I'm getting up in years now and I know how Master George and Mistress Elizabeth likes their food prepared. And they ain't giving me no cause to want to go elsewhere. So if Master George was to give me my freedom, I'd stay right here and do the cooking for them. The only difference is Master George would have to pay me.