03.01.2019

March 1, 2019

Christiane Amanpour speaks with David Wallace-Wells about climate change and Washington Post columnist Jason Rezaian about his 544 day imprisonment in Tehran. Hari Sreenivasan speaks with actor James Spader about his role as one of the FBI’s most wanted fugitives in the TV series “The Blacklist.”

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> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY.'

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

TERRIFYING WILDFIRES, CATASTROPHIC FLOODING, POLLUTED AIR.

THE SCIENCE OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS BEYOND REFUTE, BUT IS FEAR NOW THE ONLY THING THAT CAN SAVE US?

JOURNALIST DAVID WALLACE WELLS ON WHY IT IS TIME TO PANIC.

> THEN --

SHOULD THESE JUDGES AT LEAST PRETEND TO BE IMPARTIAL?

STAR OF HIT CRIME DRAMA 'THE BLACKLIST,' HOLLYWOOD ACTOR JAMES SPADER TALKS TO OUR HARRY SREENVASAN.

AND MORE THAN 500 DAYS IN ONE OF THE MOST NOTORIOUS PRISONS IN THE WORLD.

JOURNALIST JASON REZAIAN ON HIS BRUTAL DETENTION IN TEHRAN.

> UNIWORLD IS A PROUD SPONSOR OF 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY.'

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THANK YOU.

> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

MOST OF THE WORLD HAS SIGNED ON TO THIS FACT: CLIMATE CHANGE IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO OUR CIVILIZATION ON EARTH, AND HUMANKIND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

THE SCIENCE IS IRREFUTABLE.

THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE ON EARTH KEEPS ON RISING TOWARDS 2 DEGREES CELSIUS ABOVE PREINDUSTRIAL LEVELS, AND THAT IS WHAT SCIENTISTS AND POLICYMAKERS SAY IS THE UPPER LIMIT OF WHAT'S LIVABLE.

BUT ALREADY, NATURAL DISASTERS ARE MOUNTING AND INTENSIFYING.

IN ITS FIRST EVER STUDY OF THE PLANTS, ANIMALS, AND MICROORGANISMS THAT SUSTAIN OUR FOOD SUPPLY, THE UNITED NATIONS IS WARNING THAT THIS CRUCIAL BIODIVERSITY IS DECLINING DUE TO OUR ACTIVITY AND OUR POLLUTION.

PUBLIC AWARENESS AND ACCEPTANCE OF THE SCIENCE IS SHIFTING, EVEN IN THE UNITED STATES.

THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS.

THE BAD NEWS IS THAT IT'S NOT HAPPENING FAST ENOUGH.

NATIONS ARE NOT ENACTING THEIR CLIMATE PLEDGES RIGOROUSLY ENOUGH, AND CRUCIALLY, IN THIS AGE OF COMMUNICATION, THE NEED TO MAKE HASTE AND CHANGE IS NOT BEING HEARD LOUDLY ENOUGH.

YOUNG PEOPLE, THOUGH, SEEM TO GET IT.

THEY ARE ORGANIZING SCHOOL WALKOUTS, PARLIAMENTARY SIT-INS, AND THEY'RE MAKING PUBLIC DEMANDS TO THE POWERFUL.

THEIR MESSAGE: IT IS TIME NOW TO PANIC.

I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE HOPEFUL.

I WANT YOU TO PANIC.

I WANT YOU TO FEEL THE FEAR I FEEL EVERY DAY.

AND THEN I WANT YOU TO ACT.

I WANT YOU TO ACT AS IF YOU WOULD IN A CRISIS.

I WANT YOU TO ACT AS IF THE HOUSE WAS ON FIRE.

NOW, GRETA THUNBERG IS THE YOUNG, SWEDISH ACTIVIST WHO'S LAUNCHED THIS GLOBAL YOUTH MOVEMENT, AND MY NEXT GUEST AGREES, WE SHOULD BEHAVE AS IF THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE.

DAVID WALLACE WELLS IS A JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR OF 'THE UNINHABITABLE EARTH.'

HE TOLD MA AS THE PLANET GETS WARMER IN CATASTROPHIC WAYS, HARNESSING FEAR MAY BE THE ONLY WAY NOW TO SAVE OURSELVES.

DAVID WALLACE WELLS, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THANKS.

IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

SO, LOOK, PANIC SEEMS TO BE THE OPERATING MOTIVATIONAL SYSTEM OF THE DAY.

WE'VE JUST HAD GRETA THUNBERG.

WE'VE HEARD WHAT SHE SAID, AND NOW YOU ARE ESSENTIALLY SAYING THE SAME THING IN A MUCH LARGER AND BIGGER, MORE SCIENTIFIC WAY.

IS IT TIME TO BE TERRIFIED?

IS IT TIME TO EMBRACE THE NIGHTMARE AND FIX IT?

I THINK THE SCIENCE SAYS THAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BE QUITE TERRIFYING, EVEN IF WE MOVE VERY AGGRESSIVELY ON CLIMATE.

AND SO, I ALMOST DON'T THINK IT'S A RHETORICAL QUESTION.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF RESPONDING TO THE SCIENCE AS IT COMES OUT.

WE'RE AT ABOUT 1.1 DEGREE OF WARMING RIGHT NOW.

I THINK IT'S ALMOST CERTAIN THAT WE WILL BE UNABLE TO AVOID TWO DEGREES OF WARMING.

AT THAT POINT, MANY OF THE ICE SHEETS OF THE WORLD WILL BEGIN AN IRREVERSIBLE MELT, AND WE'LL SEE AS MANY AS 200 MILLION CLIMATE REFUGEES.

THAT'S THE U.N. ESTIMATE, NOT MINE, 200 MILLION.

WE'RE ON TRACK TO HIT FOUR DEGREES OF WARMING BY THE END OF THE CENTURY, AND IF WE GET THERE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $600 TRILLION IN GLOBAL CLIMATE DAMAGES.

THAT'S DOUBLE ALL THE WEALTH THAT EXISTS IN THE WORLD TODAY.

TWICE AS MUCH WAR, IMPACTS ONNING CLURKS ON THE ECONOMY, WHICH COULD BE 20% SMALLER THAN IT WOULD BE WITHOUT CLIMATE CHANGE OR POSSIBLY EVEN SMALLER THAN THAT.

SO, WE'RE HEADING INTO SOME UNPRECEDENTED CLIMATE, AND WE HAVE NOT REALLY BEGUN TO THINK ABOUT THE WAY THAT THAT WILL AFFECT HOW WE LIVE ON THIS PLANET.

OKAY, SO LOOK, YOU'VE JUST GIVEN US THESE FIGURES.

AND FOR MANY PEOPLE, IT'S QUITE SORT OF, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND, WHAT DOES 1.5 DEGREES MEAN?

WHAT DOES TWO DEGREES MEAN?

NOBODY QUITE UNDERSTANDS THE SCOPE OF THAT.

SO, CURRENTLY, WHERE ARE WE?

AT 1.5?

A LITTLE BELOW THAT, 1.1 ABOUT, AND IT'S GOING TO GET CONSIDERABLY WORSE FROM HERE.

IF WE END UP AT FOUR DEGREES BY THE END OF THE CENTURY, CALIFORNIA WILDFIRES WILL BURNING 64 TIMES AS MUCH LAND AS THEY DID THIS PAST YEAR, WHEN THEY BURNED MORE THAN A MILLION ACRES.

THAT'S JUST ONE FIGURE, BUT EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK, EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE WILL BE TOUCHED BY THIS FORCE.

WELL, DAVID, IN A WAY, IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.

WE'VE SEEN THE 21st CENTURY BE THE CENTURY OF THESE MASSIVE WILDFIRES THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THESE MASSIVE AND INTENSIFYING NATURAL DISASTERS, STORMS, FLOODING, AND THE OTHER.

AND WE'RE ALREADY SEEING CLIMATE MIGRATION AS WELL AS OTHER CONFLICTS AND REFUGEES.

WE'RE ALREADY SEEING POLITICS CHANGING.

WHAT WE'RE NOT SEEING IS A TIPPING POINT OF POLITICS AND THE POLITICAL WILL TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE, AND I WONDER WHETHER WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT.

AND FIRST I'M GOING TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF A SOUND BITE FROM AN INTERVIEW I DID WITH THE U.N.

CHIEF NEGOTIATOR JUST AFTER THIS GREAT ACHIEVEMENT THAT THEY BELIEVED THEY HAD SCORED AT THE PARIS CLIMATE CONFERENCE.

THE AGREEMENT IS NOT PERFECT, BUT WHAT IS IN LIFE?

BUT I THINK THAT WHAT IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT THE DIRECTION HAS BEEN SET LOUD AND CLEAR.

WE'RE NOT GOING JUST FOR TWO DEGREES.

WE'RE ACTUALLY MOVING IN THE DIRECTION OF 1.5.

AND THAT WILL TAKE SEVERAL DECADES TO GET US ONTO THAT PATH.

BUT ALONG THAT TIME, WE ARE GOING TO BE MEASURING OURSELVES, AND WE ARE GOING TO BE HAVING VERIFICATION MOMENTS IN TIME WHERE WE WILL BE ABLE TO TRANSPARENTLY KNOW FOR OURSELVES AND FOR THE WORLD WHETHER WE'RE ACTUALLY MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

THE VERY, VERY POWERFUL SIGNAL, HOWEVER, TO CAPITAL MARKETS AND TO RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY, TO ALL THE TECHNOLOGY COMPANY, THE TECHNOLOGY WORLD, IS THIS IS A NEW ERA OF RENEWABLE ENERGY, AND THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO GET US TO THE SAFER TEMPERATURES.

SO, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

FIRST OF ALL, THAT WAS IN THE HEIGHT OF THE EUPHORIC MOMENT OF ALL THE COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD SIGNING ON TO THE CLIMATE PARIS ACCORDS.

IN THE INTERIM, WE UNDERSTAND THAT DESPITE THEIR PLEDGES, THEY HAVE NOT ALL BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION IMPLEMENTED THEIR PROMISES AND THEIR PLEDGES.

SO, IS THAT OPTIMISM OUTDATED, OR CAN WE STILL ACHIEVE WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT?

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY PRACTICAL PATH TO STAYING BELOW 2 DEGREES CELSIUS THROUGH CONVENTIONAL DECARB NIZATION, REPLACING DIRTY ENERGY WITH CLEAN ENERGY.

I THINK THE U.N. IPCC WOULD SAY TO DO THAT, WE NEED SOME SIGNIFICANT USE OF WHAT'S CALLED NEGATIVE EMISSIONS TECHNOLOGIES, WHICH ARE WAYS OF SUCKING CARBON OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE, RATHER THAN JUST REDUCING HOW MUCH WE'RE PUTTING INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.

AND THERE ARE PROMISING -- THERE HAS BEEN PROMISING PROGRESS ON THOSE TECHNOLOGIES, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S BEEN TESTED ONLY AT VERY SMALL SCALE IN A KIND OF LABORATORY SETTING, AND WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY OF THE LARGE-SCALE TESTING TO KNOW WHETHER WE COULD REALLY DEPLOY THIS TECHNOLOGY IN A WAY THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO GET UNDERNEATH TWO DEGREES.

TWO DEGREES, KEEP IN MIND, IS WHAT MOST OF THE WORLD'S CLIMATE SCIENTISTS CALL THE THRESHOLD OF CATASTROPHE.

MANY OF THE WORLD'S ISLAND NATIONS HAVE DESCRIBED IT AS GENOCIDE.

AND I THINK IT'S ALMOST CERTAIN THAT WE GET TO THERE.

THERE IS A PAPER THAT STICKS IN MY MIND VERY VIVIDLY FROM ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO THAT SUGGESTED THE IMPACT ON PUBLIC HEALTH FROM AIR POLLUTION ALONE, JUST BETWEEN THE 1.5-DEGREE THRESHOLD AND THE 2-DEGREE THRESHOLD WOULD BE A TOTAL OF 353 MILLION ADDITIONAL DEATHS.

THAT'S THE SCALE OF SUFFERING OF 25 HOLOCAUSTS, AND WE ARE ALMOST CERTAIN TO GET THERE.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS COMING CENTURY AND THE WAY THAT CLIMATE CHANGE WILL TRANSFORM IT, THESE ARE THE SCALE OF TRANSFORMATIONS THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

IT'S COMPLETELY CATASTROPHIC, AND I WOULD SAY UNPRECEDENTED IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY.

THAT SAID, I THINK WE WILL FIGURE OUT A WAY TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD, AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR EVERYONE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT --

WELL, HANG ON A SECOND.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, WE WILL FIGURE OUT A WAY TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD, IF IT'S AS CATASTROPHIC AS WE ALL BELIEVE THE SCIENCE COULD TELL US?

WE LIVE IN A WORLD TODAY THAT HAS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF SUFFERING.

9 MILLION PEOPLE DIE ANNUALLY ALREADY FROM AIR POLLUTION, AND THAT'S A HORROR.

IT'S A MORAL ABOMINATION.

BUT YOU AND I STILL LIVE THE WAY THAT WE DO WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE.

AND I THINK THERE WILL BE FORMS OF COMPARTMENTALIZATION AND DENIAL THAT TAKE HOLD DOWN THE ROAD, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT MORE ACTION AND ENGAGEMENT ON THIS ISSUE WILL LEAD TO POLICY CHANGES THAT CAN HELP US AVERT MANY OF THE WORST CASE SCENARIOS THAT ARE POSSIBLE.

AND I DO SEE ENCOURAGING MOVEMENT ON THAT FRONT.

I MEAN, THERE'S THE MOVEMENT IN GREEN ENERGY AND HOW MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE THAT'S BECOME OVER THE LAST DECADE OR SO, HAPPENING MUCH FASTER THAN EVEN ITS ADVOCATES PREDICTED.

BUT THE MOVEMENT IN PUBLIC OPINION HAS BEEN REALLY DRAMATIC, TOO.

IN THE U.S., NOW OVER 70% OF AMERICANS BELIEVE CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL AND HAPPENING.

OVER 70% OF US BELIEVE IT'S CONCERNING.

THOSE NUMBERS ARE UP 15% SINCE JUST 2015, AND THEY'RE UP 8% SINCE MARCH.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GREEN NEW DEAL, YOU SEE THE IMPACT THAT THAT'S HAVING ON OUR POLITICS IN THE U.S.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN EUROPE WITH GRETA THUNBERG AND THE CLIMATE STRIKE, EXTINCTION REBELLION IN THE UK, I BELIEVE POLITICS ARE BEGINNING TO MOVE IN THIS DIRECTION, BUT I THINK WHAT WILL ACCELERATE THAT MOVEMENT IS A BATCH OF NEW ECONOMIC RESEARCH JUST FROM THE LAST FEW YEARS.

USED TO BE THE CASE THAT ECONOMIC CONVENTIONAL WISDOM HELD THAT ACTION ON CLIMATE WAS REALLY EXPENSIVE, IT WOULD MEAN FOREGOING SOME SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF ECONOMIC GROWTH.

BUT IT TURNS OUT THAT THAT LOGIC IS ACTUALLY REVERSED, THAT TAKING FAST ACTION ON DECARBONIZATION WILL SAFE ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY, IN FACT, CREATE A LOT OF WEALTH.

ONE MAJOR STUDY LAST YEAR SAID THAT FAST DEKORBIZATION COULD ADD $26 TRILLION TO THE GLOBAL ECONOMY.

2030.

THOSE PAYOFFS ARE VERY, VERY FAST.

AND I THINK ONCE THAT INFORMATION SORT OF FILTERS UP INTO THE WORLD VIEW OF OUR POLICYMAKERS GLOBALLY, I DO THINK THERE WILL BE A SIGNIFICANT REORIENTATION IN THEIR PERSPECTIVE ON THIS ISSUE BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT THE PERCEIVED COST OF ACTION ON CLIMATE HAS BEEN ONE REASON WHY THE WORLD HAS BEEN SO SLOW TO ACT.

RIGHT, YES.

AND AS YOU SAY, WE HAVE REALLY FAILED THOSE PARIS COMMITMENTS, AND I DO THINK POLICY ACTION WILL COME.

THE QUESTION IS JUST HOW MUCH AND HOW FAST?

I SPOKE TO THE AMERICAN -- WELL, SHE'S CANADIAN, BUT SHE'S WORKED FOR THE UNITED STATES -- THE AMERICAN CLIMATE SCIENTIST, DR. KATHERINE HAYHO.

SHE'S A COMMITTED CHRISTIAN.

SHE WAS PART OF DRAFTING THE RECENT U.S. CLIMATE REPORT, WHICH WAS CATASTROPHIC, ACTUALLY, TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT AND ALL OF THE OTHER IMPACTS TO THE U.S. IF WE DIDN'T GET TO GRIPS WITH THIS.

AND SHE WAS VERY INTERESTING IN HOW SHE VIEWS THE SUBJECT AND HOW SHE THINKS IT SHOULD BE COMMUNICATED TO PEOPLE.

JUST TAKE A LISTEN.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CLIMATE ACTION, WE'RE PRESENTED WITH TWO OPPOSING APOCALYPTIC VISIONS.

ONE WHERE CLIMATE CHANGE CONTINUES UNCHECKED, WHICH COULD MEAN THE END OF CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT -- NOT THE END OF THE PLANET -- THE PLANET WILL BE FINE, BUT THE END OF CIVILIZATION, BECAUSE OUR CIVILIZATION IS BUILT ON THE ASU ASSUMPTION OF A STABLE CLIMATE.

THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, WE HAVE AN APOCALYPTIC VISION OF, WELL, WE HAVE TO THROW AWAY EVERYTHING THAT MAKES OUR CURRENT LIVES SO COMFORTABLE.

NO ELECTRICITY, NO WATER, NO CARS, NOTHING!

SO WE'RE FACED WITH TWO OPPOSING VISIONS OF THE FUTURE, AND NO WONDER PEOPLE ARE MORE AFRAID OF THE ONE WHERE WE THROW AWAY ALL OF OUR MODERN TECHNOLOGY VERSUS THE ONE WHERE CLIMATE IMPACTS AFFECT US.

BUT THE REALITY IS NEITHER OF THOSE HAS TO HAPPEN.

WE NEED A POSITIVE VISION OF THE FUTURE WHERE WE DO CONTINUE TO HAVE ABUNDANT ENERGY FOR ALL, NOT JUST US HERE IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES, BUT PEOPLE IN EVERY COUNTRY AROUND THE WORLD, BUT THAT ENERGY COMES FROM CLEAN SOURCES THAT DON'T POLLUTE OUR AIR OR OUR WATER AND WILL NEVER RUN OUT ON US.

SO I MEAN, SHE RAISES SOME INTERESTING POINTS.

JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT POLL NUMBERS AND PUBLIC OPINION, I THINK IT'S THE STATE OF WASHINGTON WHERE THEY ARE CONVINCED OF HUMAN RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CLIMATE DISASTER THAT WE'RE LIVING THROUGH, BUT THEY DID NOT VOTE FOR A CARBON TAX.

THEY VOTED IT DOWN.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE CARBON TAX APPROACH IN GENERAL.

MOST OF THE ECONOMISTS WHO STUDY IT NOW SAY THAT THOSE TAXES WOULD HAVE TO BE SO HIGH THAT THEY APPROACHED AN EFFECTIVE BAN.

THE U.N. IPC REPORT SUGGESTED A FUNCTIONAL CARBON TAX WOULD HAVE TO BE AS HIGH AS $5,500 A TON IN ORDER TO HELP US REALLY GET BELOW TWO DEGREES.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN EXISTING CARBON TAX IN THE WORLD THAT'S ABOVE $20 A TON.

AND ALL OF THE PLACES WHERE IT'S IN PLACE, THOSE COUNTRIES HAVE THEIR EMISSIONS STILL GROWING.

SO I SEE MUCH MORE REASON FOR HOPE IN THE KIND OF INVESTMENTS THAT ARE DETAILED, OR I SHOULDN'T SAY DETAILED, BUT ARE PROPOSED IN, SAY, THE GREEN NEW DEAL, AND WE'VE SEEN THOSE KINDS OF INVESTMENTS PAY OFF VERY QUICKLY.

GREEN ENERGY IS NOW MUCH, MUCH CHEAPER, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THAN EVEN PROPONENTS WOULD HAVE PREDICTED TEN YEARS AGO AND IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD CHEAPER THAN ANY DIRTY ENERGY SOURCES, WHICH GETS TO A POINT THAT THE DOCTOR JUST MADE -- WE CAN NOW HOPE THAT AS CHINA CONTINUES TO DEVELOP, AS INDIA DEVELOPS, AS SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA DWEEVELOPS, THAT THOSE PATHS OF DEVELOPMENT WILL BE MUCH GREENER THAN THOSE TAKEN IN PREVIOUS COUNTRIES AND PREVIOUS CENTURIES BY COUNTRIES IN THEIR ECONOMIC POSITION.

AND THAT'S REALLY KEY.

I THINK AS AMERICANS, EVEN AS BRITISH CITIZENS, MEMBERS OF THE EU, PEOPLE SORT OF EXPECTED THIS STORY IS REALLY, REALLY DRIVEN BY THE LIFESTYLE AND BEHAVIOR OF THE MODERN WEST.

AND WHILE COUNTRIES LIKE THE U.S. AND THE UK ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LION'S SHARE OF HISTORICAL EMISSIONS, GOING FORWARD, THE STORY WILL BE WRITTEN ALMOST ENTIRELY BY CHINA, TO A LESSER EXTENT INDIA, AND TO A THIRD DEGREE, HOW SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA DEVELOPS.

AND HOW THOSE COUNTRIES DEVELOPED, WHETHER THEIR DIETS ADD MORE MEAT, WHETHER THEY CONTINUE TO BURN MORE COAL, WHETHER THEY INVEST MORE AGGRESSIVELY IN GREEN ENERGY, THESE ARE THE MAJOR QUESTIONS OF THE NEXT FEW DECADES.

AMERICAN EMISSIONS ARE ALREADY FALLING.

THEY WERE UP LAST YEAR, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, THEY'RE HEADING DOWN.

SAME WITH THE COUNTRIES OF THE EU.

AND WHILE THOSE COUNTRIES HAVE A KIND OF MORAL OBLIGATION TO BE CLIMATE LEADERS GOING FORWARD, FROM A PRACTICAL PERSPECTIVE, THE FATE OF THE PLANET WILL BE WRITTEN BY THE ENERGY TRAJECTORIES OF THE DEVELOPING WORLD.

WHAT DOES THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION'S LACK OF AWARENESS OF HUMANKIND POLLUTING ACTIVITIES MEAN?

WELL, I THINK IT'S A HORRIBLE STUMBLE.

IT'S AN EMBARRASSMENT AND IT'S ABHORRENT FROM A POSITION OF MORAL LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE, AND I WISH THAT WE HAD AN ADMINISTRATION THAT WAS PUSHING THINGS MORE STRONGLY.

AND I HOPE THAT SHORTLY WE WILL.

I THINK THAT IN THE BIG PICTURE, THE WORLD IN AMERICA AND THE REST OF EUROPE CAN PLAY IS BY SIGNALING THAT PROSPERITY IS POSSIBLE WHILE STILL BEING GREEN, THAT WE DON'T NEED TO SACRIFICE THE COMFORTS OF MODERN AFFLUENT LIFE IN ORDER TO HAVE A MORE RESPONSIBLE RELATIONSHIP TO THE PLANET.

AND I THINK ACTUALLY, IN MUCH OF THE EU, THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE.

IF THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WAS CONFINED TO JUST THE CARBON FOOTPRINT OF THE AVERAGE EUROPEAN, AMERICAN EMISSIONS WOULD FALL BY SOMETHING LIKE A THIRD.

AND I DON'T THINK WE THINK OF, SAY THE AVERAGE CITIZEN OF SPAIN OR ITALY, AS BEING CRIPPLED BY, YOU KNOW, ECONOMIC LIMITATIONS THAT ARE PUT IN PLACE BY CARBON RESTRICTIONS.

I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, CHINA'S AT ALREADY 29% OF GLOBAL EMISSIONS, AND THAT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR ALL OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE THEY'RE BUILDING ACROSS AFRICA AND ASIA, WHICH IS QUITE POSSIBLY ADD UP TO EVEN MORE THAN WHAT WE'RE DOING IN CHINA ITSELF.

AND I THINK GOING FORWARD, THAT SHARE IS ONLY GOING TO GROW.

AND SO, I THINK DONALD TRUMP IS A MUCH LESS IMPORTANT FIGURE THAN XI JINPING.

THE U.S. IS AT ABOUT 15% OF GLOBAL EMISSIONS, AND THAT IS LIKELY TO FALL GOING FORWARD.

SO WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE PLANET, IN A WEIRD WAY, A LOT OF IT HANGS ON THIS ONE MAN, THE LEADER OF CHINA.

HIS AUTHORITARIAN OPPORTUNITIES TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS.

AND WE'LL SEE HOW THAT SHAKES OUT.

AGAIN, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT A PERFECT RECORD.

THERE ARE MANY REASONS TO BE SKEPTICAL OF THAT RHETORIC, BUT CHINA HAS CERTAINLY POSITIONED ITSELF OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVELY THAN THEY HAD BEEN IN THE YEARS PRIOR, MADE MUCH BIGGER GREEN INVESTMENTS AND ACTUALLY TAKEN A REAL FOCUS ON AIR POLLUTION, WHICH WAS KILLING IN 2013 AS MANY AS A MILLION CHINESE DIED FROM AIR POLLUTION ALONE.

AND THEY FOCUSED ON THAT VERY CLEARLY.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING, AND I THINK FRUSTRATING, PERHAPS FOR THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AND ALL OF US, FACTORS IS HOW OVER THE DECADES THERE HAS BEEN THIS SMALL BAND OF DENIERS THAT HAS SEEMED TO HAVE DOMINATED THE SPHERE TO THE EXTENT THAT THE SCIENCIST JANE HANSON, ONE OF THE FIRST TO RAISE THE ALARM, HAS WRITTEN ABOUT SCIENTIFIC RETICENCE AND YOU WRITE ABOUT THAT IN THE BOOK.

TELL ME HOW YOU DISCOVERED THAT SCIENTISTS THEMSELVES, CLIMATE SCIENTISTS, EVEN SORT OF CENSORED THEMSELVES.

YEAH, TO FOR A LONG TIME, THEY BELIEVED THE PUBLIC WOULD RESPOND TO MORE MEASURED, CAUTIOUS RHETORIC, AND SO THEY WERE RELUCTANT TO SHARE THEIR MORE, THE SCARIER SIDE OF THEIR RESEARCH WITH THE PUBLIC.

THAT'S BEEN REVISED A BIT IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, AND I THINK A MAJOR CHANGE IN THE APPROACH OF SCIENTISTS TO THIS ISSUE CAME LAST OCTOBER WITH THAT IPCC REPORT, WHICH REALLY SIGNALED, THIS IS THE TIME TO ACT URGENTLY.

IF WE DON'T TAKE ACTION AGGRESSIVELY, THE WORLD WILL BE UTTERLY TRANSFORMED.

AND WHAT I TRY TO WRITE ABOUT IN MY BOOK IS EXACTLY WHAT THAT WILL MEAN FOR THE WAY THAT YOU AND I GO ABOUT OUR LIVES GOING FORWARD.

I DO THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN KIND OF A SEA CHANGE IN THE PERSPECTIVE ON THIS ISSUE, NOT JUST AMONGST SCIENTISTS, BUT AMONGST THE PUBLIC, AND I'M SOMEBODY WHO THINKS THAT THAT'S PROGRESS.

WELL, I LIKE THAT YOU'VE ENDED ON THAT OPTIMISTIC NOTE.

I'M NOT BEING SCIENTIFICALLY RETICENT HERE.

YOU'VE BEEN RAISING THE ALARM.

WE'RE ALL RAISING THE ALARM.

DAVID WALLACE WELLS, AUTHOR OF 'THE UNINHABITABLE EARTH,' THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED.

THANK YOU.

> AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO TURN TO AN ACTOR WHO'S PLAYED SOME ECCENTRIC CHARACTERS IN HIS TIME.

JAMES SPADER REVELS IN THE OFFBEAT, LIKE THE AWARD-WINNING CULT HIT OF ITS TIME, 'SEX, LIES AND VIDEOTAPE,' AND ALSO MAINSTREAM BLOCKBUSTERS LIKE 'THE AVENGERS.'

HE CURRENTLY STARS IN A POLITICAL THRILLER CALLED 'THE BLACKLIST,' AS ONE OF THE FBI'S MOST-WANTED FUGITIVES TURNED INFORMANT.

THE SERIES HAS BAGGED HIM TWO GOLDEN GLOBE NOMINATIONS, AND THE SHOW HAS GATHERED A HUGE GLOBAL FOLLOWING.

OUR HARRY SREENVASAN SPOKE TO THE HOLLYWOOD JUST RECENTLY.

FOR OUR VIEWERS WHO HAVE NOT WATCHED THE SHOW, WHAT'S 'THE BLACKLIST' ABOUT?

IN THE FIRST EPISODE, A MAN WHO IS ON THE FBI'S MOST-WANTED LIST GIVES HIMSELF UP TO AN ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF THE FBI.

THEY TAKE HIM INTO CUSTODY.

HE'S BEEN WANTED IN MANY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND HIS OWN AND SO FORTH, AND CONSIDERED ARMED AND DANGEROUS.

AND HE SAID THAT HE WANTS TO MAKE A DEAL WITH THE FBI.

SO HE'S AN INFORMANT NOW.

OF SORTS.

HE IS STEERING THEM TOWARDS PEOPLE THAT THEY'VE NEVER HEARD OF AND THAT THEY AREN'T EVEN AWARE ARE OUT THERE.

IN THIS SEASON, THERE'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT PLOT TWIST, IN THAT HIS KIND OF IMMUNITY IS COMPROMISED.

YES.

HE IS NOW BROUGHT TO JUSTICE, OR IN THE PROCESS OF BEING BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

WE HAVE A CLIP.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

OFFICER BALDWIN, ASKED FOR SOME IDENTIFICATION, AND I GAVE HIM A FALSE I.D. SO MAGNIFICENT, EVEN I STARTED TO BELIEVE MY NAME WAS GEORGE MURPHY.

HE SAID I LOOKED AROUND NERVOUSLY.

THE TRUTH IS, I MADE FUN OF THE MAN.

I REFUSED TO GIVE HIM THE RESPECT HE SOMEHOW BELIEVED HE DESERVED.

IT HAPPENS.

I GET IMPATIENT, I MAKE A COMMENT I MIGHT REGRET.

IT'S ONE OF MY BIGGEST ISSUES IN THERAPY, ALONG WITH SOME RESIDUAL ANXIETY FROM CHILDHOOD AND A SEXUAL FASCINATION I'D PREFER TO DISCUSS IN CHAMBERS.

THAT'S SORT OF QUINTESSENTIALLY HIM.

I MEAN, THERE'S A CERTAIN IRREVERENCE TO EVERYTHING HE DOES.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT SORT OF LIFE IS ON THE LINE IN THIS CASE.

HE STILL JOKES.

HE'S VERY CONFIDENT.

IS THAT EASIER TO PLAY OVER FIVE SEASONS, SIX SEASONS THAT YOU GET TO KNOW A CHARACTER A LITTLE BIT BETTER?

I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY FLUID IN TERMS OF TONE, SO I WAS SUCCESSFUL, I THINK, IN FINDING THAT IN THAT THIS IS A SHOW THAT IS AT DIFFERENT, BY TURNS, VERY, VERY EMOTIONAL, VERY FUNNY, VERY INTENSE, SOMETIMES DISTURBING OR STARTLING.

AND SOMETIMES, A LOT OF THOSE THINGS ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

AND I WANTED A CHARACTER WHO I WOULD STILL, AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME, IF THE SHOW CONTINUED TO RUN, A CHARACTER THAT WAS ENIGMATIC ENOUGH TO ME THAT I WOULD STILL BE SURPRISED BY HIM OVER TIME AND I'D STILL BE CURIOUS ABOUT HIM OVER TIME.

I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST READ THE VERY FIRST EPISODE, THE PILOT, YOU KNOW, BY THE END OF THE STORY -- BY THE END OF THE STORY, YOU KNEW LESS ABOUT HIM THAN YOU KNEW AT THE BEGINNING, REALLY.

ANYTHING YOU LEARN ABOUT HIM JUST POSES MORE QUESTIONS.

AND SO, I KNEW THAT THIS IS A CHARACTER THAT WOULD HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF STAYING POWER, FOR ME AT LEAST, IN TERMS OF CURIOSITY.

ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT IT'S DOING SO WELL?

I MEAN, EVERYBODY HOPES THAT THE PROJECT THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON SUCCEEDS.

HERE YOU ARE, AVERAGE OF 7 MILLION PEOPLE PLUS WATCHING SIX SEASONS INTO IT.

I RESPONDED TO THE MATERIAL AND RESPONDED TO THIS CHARACTER.

AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE AS A GAUGE, REALLY, IS WHAT MY OPINION OF IT IS.

AND I WAS INTRIGUED BY THE SORT OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN A SORT OF SERIALIZED SORT OF METHODOLOGY TO THE SHOW.

I'M MARRIED WITH A PROCEDURAL, BUT I HAVE NO IDEA.

I MEAN, I HAVE NEVER BEEN VERY GOOD AT THAT PART OF THIS BUSINESS.

I'M PRETTY SELFISH IN MY REASONS FOR TAKING THINGS, AND THEY REALLY -- IT RARELY HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT A RESPONSE MAY BE FOR OTHERS, OR FROM OTHERS.

BUT --

WHAT COUSIN IT HAVE TO DO WITH?

IT REALLY HAS TO DO WITH MY INTEREST IN THE MATERIAL AND THE WORLD THAT THE STORY LIVES IN.

IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M INTERESTED IN EXPLORING, THEN I'LL DO IT.

THIS YEAR YOU'VE ALSO IN THE EPISODES HAD STORY LINES THAT HAVE TALKED ABOUT WHAT IS THE MEANING OF TRUTH?

THE INTERNET IS INFLUENCING SO MANY THINGS, CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

THESE ARE TOPICS THAT AMERICA IS CHALLENGED WITH RIGHT NOW.

I'M ASSUMING THIS IS AN INTENTIONAL ACT FROM THE WRITERS, YOURSELF.

I MEAN, LISTEN, THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE'S LIFE SEEPS IN, AND THE WORLD AROUND YOU IS, YOU KNOW, A SHOW IS A SPONGE, TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, IN TERMS OF THAT, BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT THERE'S A BIG STORY LINE THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW ON THE SHOW THAT THE WRITERS WERE WORKING ON LONG BEFORE IT BECAME A NEWS ITEM.

AND THE SAME THING WOULD HAPPEN ON ANOTHER SHOW THAT I WORKED WITH FOR A LONG TIME, 'BOSTON LEGAL,' WHERE WE REALLY WEREN'T RIPPING FROM THE HEADLINES.

AND YET, AGAIN AND AGAIN, I'D GET A SCRIPT AND WE'D BE WORKING ON SOMETHING, AND IT BECAME -- BY THE TIME IT AIRED, IT WAS TIMELY.

YOU KNOW, GIVEN THAT YOU'VE WORKED AT 'THE PRACTICE,' 'BOSTON LEGAL' -- DO SHOWS WITH MULTIPLE HIT SEASONS GET BETTER OVER TIME?

BECAUSE I'VE HEARD FROM SOME PEOPLE THAT THE FIRST COUPLE SAEN SEASONS ARE REALLY WHERE EVERYONE HAS THEIR NOSES TO THE GRINDSTONE.

THIRD SEASONS, FOURTH SEASONS, THE MONEY STARTS TO ROLE IN, CHANGES THE DYNAMIC.

A LOT CAN BE A FACTOR IN HOW THINGS CHANGE AND DEVELOP OVER TIME.

FOR INSTANCE, 'THE PRACTICE,' I CAME IN ON THE LAST SEASON.

I THINK IT WAS THE EIGHTH SEASON OF THAT SHOW.

AND I WAS BROUGHT IN BECAUSE SIX CAST MEMBERS HAD BEEN LET GO.

AND WHAT HAD HAPPENED WAS, THE SHOW HAD BEEN ON -- IT WAS IN ITS EIGHTH SEASON.

THE RATINGS I DON'T THINK WERE AS STRONG AS THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST, AND THE SHOW GOT PICKED UP BY THE NETWORK FOR ANOTHER SEASON, AND THEY HAD HAD THEIR LICENSING FEE CUT IN HALF.

SO DAVID KELLY FELT HE COULDN'T MAKE THE SHOW THE QUALITY, SO HE HAD A CHOICE.

HE COULD EITHER CONTINUE WITH THE SHOW AT A MUCH-REDUCED LICENSING FEE, IN WHICH CASE HE'D HAVE TO FIRE PEOPLE, OR HE COULD END THE SHOW AND BY THAT TIME, BY AN EIGHTH SEASON, THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THEIR LIVING ON A TELEVISION SHOW IS ENORMOUS.

RIGHT.

AND HE DECIDED TO KEEP THOSE PEOPLE EMPLOYED FOR ANOTHER YEAR.

AND SO, HE FIRED SIX ACTORS.

AND I MET WITH HIM, AND HE SAID I'D LIKE TO HAVE YOU COME IN AND BE ON THE SHOW, AND HE BASICALLY WAS BURNING THIS HOUSE DOWN THAT HE'D BUILT, AND THAT'S WHAT THAT CHARACTER WAS DOING.

BUT THEN HALFWAY THROUGH THE SEASON, THE NETWORK CAME AND SAID, WELL, HOW ABOUT ANOTHER SERIES WITH THIS SAME CHARACTER, YOU KNOW?

AND YOU GET A SPINOFF.

YEAH, SO ALL OF A SUDDEN, I DID 'BOSTON LEGAL.'

BUT HERE YOU HAVE, I WAS BROUGHT IN AS A DESTRUCTIVE FORCE ON 'THE PRACTICE.'

NOW, HOW DO YOU CONSTRUCT A SERIES AROUND, YOU KNOW, JUST AROUND THE CAT IN THE HAT, WHICH IS WHAT DAVID CONCEIVED OF WHEN HE THOUGHT OF THAT CHARACTER?

AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO I AM.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHO I AM.

HOW -- AM I -- AM I SUPPOSED TO RECOUNT ALL OF THE MOMENTS IN MY LIFE LEADING UP TO THIS MOMENT AND JUST HOPE THAT IT'S COHERENT, THAT IT MAKES SOME SORT OF SENSE TO YOU?

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME, YOU KNOW.

I WAS THERE.

I DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHO I AM.

AND I'M SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU.

AND WHY?

NO, TELL ME WHY.

WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO YOU?

BECAUSE MAYBE I CAN HELP YOU.

WHEN I LOOK WHACK AT THESE CHARACTERS, CLEARLY, IT'S SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T LIKE HIMSELF IN SOME WAYS, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO SOME OF THE OTHER CHARACTERS.

IN THIS SHOW, 'BLACK LIST,' RECENTLY THERE HAS BEEN A SHRINK THAT KIND OF LOOKS AT YOUR DEEPEST, DARKEST CORNERS AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, YOUR FEAR IS THAT YOU'RE AN IMPOSTER.

YOU GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO SETH, THE HORRIBLE CHARACTER IN 'PRETTY IN PINK,' AND THE OTHER CHARACTERS ARE TELLING YOU THAT YOUR SELF-LOATHING IS SOME OF THE STUFF THAT'S DRIVING YOU.

I'M GETTING REALLY BORED OF THIS CONVERSATION, ALL RIGHT?

IF YOU WANT YOUR LITTLE PIECE OF LOW-GRADE [ BLEEP ], FINE, TAKE IT, YOU KNOW?

BUT IF YOU DO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A FRIEND.

IS THAT RIGHT?

YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

ARE YOU DRAWN TO THIS SORT OF THING?

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT TO BE THE CASE.

YOU'RE GOOD AT IT.

I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT IS THAT'S DRIVING.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S REALLY WHAT WAS DRIVING ALLEN SHORE, AND I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT IS WHAT'S DRIVING REDDINGTON.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MERIT I GIVE TO THAT.

OKAY.

DO YOU LOOK FOR CONFLICT IN CHARACTERS?

BECAUSE THEY'RE --

I DO.

I DO.

ARE THEY MORE FUN TO PLAY?

YES.

IT IS THAT THAT IS STILL THE MOST COMPELLING ASPECT OF THE CHARACTER IN 'BLACK LIST,' IS THAT IS THE DICHOTOMY THAT I FIND AND THE CONFLICT THAT I FIND IN HIM ALL THE TIME.

AND BY THE WAY, I WAS VERY SPOILED IN THAT, YOU KNOW, LISTEN, TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, IT'S BY DESIGN.

I MEAN, THAT'S ALSO WHAT I FOUND MOST COMPELLING ABOUT THAT OTHER CHARACTER THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ALLEN SHORE, IS THE DICHOTOMY IN HIM.

AND THIS MAN, RAYMOND REDDINGTON, WHO IS SO RUTHLESS AND BRUTAL AT TIMES, WHO IS INCREDIBLY VULNERABLE AND THOUGHTFUL AND HAS SUCH AN UNDERSTANDING FOR THE QUALITY OF LIFE AND THE BEAUTY OF LIFE AND THE VALUE OF LIFE.

AND WHAT WOULD BE THE THING THAT WOULD TEACH HIM THAT AND GIVE HIM SUCH AN INCREDIBLE APPRECIATION FOR LIFE IS THAT HE'S SO FAMILIAR WITH THE LOSS OF LIFE.

ALL THOSE YEARS SPENT WORRYING ABOUT YOU, FANCYING MYSELF YOUR GUARDIAN ANGEL, SHE WOULD TAKE ONE LOOK AT YOU AND KNOW YOU'D BE FINE.

AND HE'S SO FAMILIAR WITH THE TAKING OF LIFE, AND I THINK THAT HAS GIVEN HIM A VERY KEEN SENSIBILITY FOR THE COST OF A LOSS OF LIFE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A STRANGE THING TO PLAY, BUT SOMEBODY WHO HAS COMPLETELY COME TO TERMS WITH THE END OF HIS LIFE AT SOME POINT, AND YET --

FULLY PRESENT.

FULLY PRESENT AND FEARLESS, IN A WAY.

I THINK HIS COMFORT WITH HIS OWN MORTALITY PROBABLY GIVES HIM GREAT CONFIDENCE, NO MATTER WHAT THE HELL'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DOOR THAT HE MIGHT BE WALKING THROUGH.

SO, I'VE READ THAT YOU'RE DETAIL-ORIENTED TO A POINT OF OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE.

IS THAT ACCURATE?

I THINK I'M IN A JOB THAT'S CONDUCIVE TO THAT DISORDER, IF YOU WANT TO -- LOOK LACK OF A BETTER TERM.

I'VE ONLY HAD IT BEEN HELPFUL FOR ME AS AN ACTOR, HAVING A COMPULSION TOWARDS ATTENTION TO DETAIL OR A COMPULSIVE ATTENTION TO DETAIL.

ARE YOU STILL LEARNING AS AN ACTOR?

YEAH.

WHAT ARE YOU LEARNING NOW THAT YOU MAYBE DIDN'T FIGURE OUT IN THE LAST --

THE SAME CRAP I WAS LEARNING AT THE VERY BEGINNING.

SOMETIMES IT'S AS SIMPLE AS TO SLOW DOWN A LITTLE BIT, AND SOMETIMES IT'S AS SIMPLE AS SPEEDING UP A LITTLE BIT.

SOMETIMES THE BEST DIRECTION IN THE WORLD IS DO IT QUICKER OR DO IT SLOWER.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

YEAH.

THIS IS WHERE YOU CAME TO FIND YOUR FUTURE IN ACTING.

YOU, WHAT, DID YOU DROP OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL?

I DID.

NOT A FUTURE IN ACTING.

I REALLY --

JUST TO FIND YOUR FUTURE?

NEW YORK IS ALWAYS REPRESENTED A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT PART OF MY LIFE.

IT WAS A PLACE THAT I LEFT HOME TO MOVE TO.

YOU OPTED INTO THIS.

THIS IS WHAT I WANTED.

I LOVED THE CITY, AND I STILL DO.

I STILL -- I'M REALLY ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO, I DON'T REALLY NEED TO LEAVE NEW YORK VERY MUCH.

LIKE, I LOVE TO TRAVEL.

RIGHT.

I DO LOVE TO TRAVEL.

AND I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, THE CITY'S ONLY BEARABLE IF YOU CAN GET THE HELL OUT OF IT.

I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

I LOVE THE CITY TO LIVE IN.

I'M ONE OF -- I REALLY, TRULY BELIEVE THAT NEW YORK IS THE MOST WONDERFUL PLACE ON EARTH TO LIVE AND A TERRIBLE PLACE TO VISIT.

IT'S ACTUALLY MUCH BETTER FOR LIVING.

YOU CAN ACTUALLY LIVE A VERY CALM AND RELAXED LIFE HERE, BECAUSE YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO FIT EVERYTHING IN.

YOU COME HERE AND VISIT, AND IT'S LIKE, YOU'RE EXHAUSTED BY IT.

AND THEREFORE, PEOPLE PERCEIVE THE CITY AS AN EXHAUSTING PLACE TO BE, AND I DON'T FIND IT THAT WAY.

I FIND A CALM IN THE CENTER OF THIS CHAOS.

JAMES SPADER, THANKS SO MUCH.

THANK YOU.

> FROM THAT MW FICTION TO A REAL-LIFE STORY OF PRISON, PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE, LIFE AND DEATH THAT ALL BEGAN ONE SUMMER MORNING IN 2014 FOR AN AMERICAN JOURNALIST IN TEHRAN.

JASON REZAIAN AND HIS WIFE WERE SWEPT UP IN A POLICE RAID.

THEY HAD NO IDEA WHY.

REZAIAN HAD BEEN WORKING AS CITY BUREAU CHIEF FOR 'WASHINGTON POST,' WHEN SUDDENLY, HE FOUND HIMSELF HAULED FROM HIS HOME AND JAILED ON TRUMPED-UP CHARGES OF ESPIONAGE, AND HE WAS LOCKED AWAY FOR 544 DAYS, 1 1/2 YEARS, IN THE COUNTRY'S INFAMOUS PRISON.

BUT PERHAPS HE WAS LUCKY, AS HIS FREEDOM WAS DUE IN PART TO THE EXTRAORDINARY DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS AROUND THE IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL, AND HE WAS RELEASED IN 2016.

THERE ARE STILL AMERICANS AND OTHER DUAL NATIONALS HELD HOSTAGE IN IRAN, BUT RELATIONS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND IRAN ARE MUCH WORSE NOW, AND JASON IS RECOUNTING HIS GRIM EXPERIENCE IN HIS BOOK 'PRISONER.'

HE TOLD ME SOME OF THE CHILLING DETAILS OF LIFE AS A CAPTIVE IN TEHRAN.

JASON REZAIAN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

CHRISTIANE, THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME ON.

SO YOU KNOW, YOUR BOOK HAS A DRAMATIC TITLE, 'PRISONER.'

HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT TO WRITE?

WELL, IT WENT IN SPURTS.

I WROTE THE OUTCOME OF WHAT HAPPENED TO US AND THE FIRST MONTHS OF FREEDOM, WHICH IS AT THE END OF THE BOOK FIRST, BECAUSE IT WAS SO HARD FOR ME TO KIND OF GET MYSELF BACK INTO THAT MIND-SET OF BEING IN PRISON, NOT THAT IT WASN'T ACCESSIBLE FOR ME, BUT THAT IT WAS PRETTY PAINFUL, AND TRIGGERING, AND SET OFF ALL SORTS OF NIGHTMARES.

SO, IT WAS A HARD PROCESS.

IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO DO, BUT I WOULD GET MYSELF INTO A FRAME OF MIND WHERE I'D DIP MYSELF BACK INTO THOSE EXPERIENCES FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AT A TIME, AND THEN I'D NEED A BREAK.

AND THAT'S HOW I DID IT.

SO, LET US SORT OF TAKE OUR CUE FROM YOU, THEN, AND START A LITTLE BIT AT THE BEGINNING.

THE POIGNANCY OF THIS -- THERE ARE MANY, MANY LEVELS OF POIGNANCY -- BUT ONE THAT THIS BOOK IS AN ANTHONY BOURDAIN IMPRINT, OUR LATE FRIEND, OUR LATE COLLEAGUE, AND THE PERSON WHO YOU SORT OF GUIDED AROUND IRAN WHEN HE CAME TO DO A PROGRAM, 'PARTS UNKNOWN.'

AND HE INTERVIEWED YOU AND YOUR WIFE IN THAT PROGRAM.

AND AT THE TIME, YOU SORT OF ONLY HAD JUST RECENTLY BEEN THERE, AND YOU WERE QUITE OPTIMISTIC, AND IT WAS JUST BEFORE YOUR ARREST.

I BELIEVE IT WAS SOME SIX WEEKS BEFORE YOU WERE ARRESTED.

HERE'S A LITTLE CLIP FROM THAT DOCUMENTARY.

I LOVE IT AND I HATE IT, YOU KNOW?

BUT IT'S HOME.

IT'S BECOME HOME.

ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE?

YEAH.

ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS NO CLEAR DEAL FINALLY HAPPENED, YEAH, VERY MUCH, ACTUALLY.

I MEAN, I WONDER HOW YOU FEEL SEEING THAT.

THAT'S SO LONG AGO NOW, AND SO MUCH WATER HAS GONE UNDER THE BRIDGE, INCLUDING 544 DAYS OF YOURSELF BEING IMPRISONED.

CAN YOU REMEMBER THAT MOMENT WHEN YOU WERE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT A FUTURE LIVING IN IRAN?

I CAN.

AND SADLY, IT WAS VIOLENTLY STRIPPED FROM YEGI AND I VERY QUICKLY SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER WE TAPED THAT, BUT I HAD BEEN LIVING THERE IN IRAN AND WORKING FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AND I HAD SEEN THE LOWS OF 2009-2010, THE EFFECTS OF SANCTIONS ON THE PEOPLE OF THAT COUNTRY, AND ALSO THAT SPRING OF HOPE THAT HAPPENED IN 2013 AND THE FEELING THAT A NUCLEAR DEAL WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD AND A LIFTING OF AMERICAN AND INTERNATIONAL SANCTIONS WOULD LEAD TO A BETTER DAY FOR IRANIANS.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS ENGRAINED IN MY MIND AND IN MY HEART AT THE TIME.

I COULD FEEL IT WAS PALPABLE, BUT IT'S, AS YOU SAY, VERY MUCH IN THE PAST NOW.

AND ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU DO DESCRIBE YOURSELF A LITTLE BIT, AND WE'LL GHEET IT LATER, AS A LITTLE BIT OF A PAWN IN THE POLITICAL GAME AROUND THE IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL, BUT WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A SECOND.

YOU DESCRIBE THE TRAUMAS OF WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH AS A PRISONER, AND YOU ALSO SAY THAT YOU TRIED TO HIDE THAT FROM YOUR FAMILY.

TELL ME HOW.

WHAT WERE YOU GOING THROUGH THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT THEM TO KNOW ABOUT?

LOOK, WHEN YOU ARE THRUST INTO SUCH AN ISOLATED SITUATION, YOUR MIND GOES TO VERY DARK PLACES.

I WAS SCARED.

I WAS DEPRESSED.

I WAS VERY ANGRY.

BUT WHEN MY MOTHER AND MY WIFE WERE GIVEN INTERMITTENT ACCESS TO VISITS WITH ME, I COULD NOT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE MAKE THEM -FY DID.

WHILE I DID PUSH THEM TO DO WHATEVER THEY COULD TO RAISE THE AWARENESS AROUND MY PLIGHT, RAISE THE AWARENESS AROUND MY CASE, AT THE SAME TIME, I TRIED TO INFUSE A LITTLE BIT OF LAUGHTER AND GENTLE SENSITIVITY INTO EACH ONE OF THOSE MEETINGS, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I WAS DOING EVERYTHING I COULD TO HOLD ONTO MY DIGNITY AND TO MY HUMANITY AND NOT BRING MY FAMILY ANY FURTHER DOWN THAN EVERYBODY ALREADY WAS.

CAN I JUST ASK YOU WHAT KIND OF HUMOR YOU WERE ABLE TO BRING TO THIS PROCESS, EVEN ON VISITING HOURS?

WELL, LOOK, CHRISTIANE, YOU'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN IRAN OVER THE YEARS AND YOU'VE DEALT WITH IRANIAN AUTHORITIES, AND YOU KNOW THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE MOST DEVELOPED SENSE OF HOW THE REST OF THE WORLD WORKS.

SO THERE WAS A LOT OF ABSURDITY IN THE QUESTIONS THAT THEY ASKED ME AND THE ACCUSATIONS THAT THEY WERE MAKING AGAINST ME.

IT WAS DEADLY SERIOUS IN THE SENSE THAT THEY CONTROLLED MY DESTINY, BUT THERE WERE FUNNY MOMENTS, AND I LATCHED ONTO THOSE WITH AS MUCH KIND OF GRIP AS I COULD, BECAUSE LAUGHING THROUGH A SITUATION IS SOMETIMES THE ONLY WAY TO SURVIVE IT.

AND I DON'T THINK IT'S WEIRD.

IT'S JUST HOW I'VE ALWAYS OPERATED.

WELL, I'M GOING TO GET SOME OF THOSE DETAILS IN A MOMENT.

BUT FIRST, YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR MOM AND YOUR WIFE COMING TO VISIT YOU.

YOUR MOTHER, MARY, AN AMERICAN.

YOUR FATHER IS IRANIAN.

YOU ARE IRANIAN-AMERICAN, AND YOU'RE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES.

NOW, YOUR MOM CAME ON THIS SHOW, AND SHE PLEADED FOR YOUR RELEASE.

SHE LOOK AID DIRECTLY INTO THE CAMERA AND SPOKE TO THE AUTHORITIES IN TEHRAN ABOUT YOU.

THIS IS WHAT SHE SAID.

JASON -- [ SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE ]

I MEAN, IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE EMOTIONAL WATCHING IT BACK.

IT'S MAKING ME EMOTIONAL RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, I'M SO PROUD OF HOW MY MOM HANDLED THAT SITUATION.

MY BIG BROTHER, OBVIOUSLY, AND MY WIFE AS WELL.

EACH ONE OF THEM WENT THROUGH SO MANY STRUGGLES AROUND TRYING TO FREE ME.

AND MY MOM, NOT ONLY DID SHE, YOU KNOW, COME ON YOUR SHOW AND MANY OTHERS TO EXPRESS THOSE CONCERNS AND DEMAND MY RELEASE, SHE CAME TO TEHRAN!

YOU KNOW, SHE'S MARRIED INTO AN IRANIAN FAMILY.

SHE HAD SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN IRAN OVER THE YEARS.

BUT IN THIS VERY TUMULTUOUS AND SCARY SITUATION, SHE CAME AND STUCK HER FOOT DOWN AND SAID I'M NOT LEAVING UNTIL MY BOY COMES OUT.

AND I'LL BE FOREVER GRATEFUL FOR THAT.

YEAH, AND THERE WAS NO MESSING WITH YOUR MOM.

NO MESSING WITH MARY.

AND SHE TRIED TO GET INTO THE COURT.

AND I MEAN, IT WAS REALLY PAINFUL FOR HER BECAUSE SHE WAS KEPT IN THE DARK FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

AND OF COURSE, THEY CHARGED YOU WITH ESPIONAGE, BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT THOSE ARE TRUMPED-UP CHARGES.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE?

DESCRIBE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVING TO DEFEND YOURSELVES UNDER HOURS AND HOURS OF INTERROGATION IN YOUR PRISON CELL, IN THESE ENDLESS, YOU KNOW, TRIPS TO THE KANGAROO COURT, IF I COULD SAY THAT, THAT YOU WERE SUBJECTED TO.

YOU KNOW, YOUR INTERROGATORS THREATENED TO DISMEMBER YOU!

I MEAN, THEY WERE REALLY VERY VIOLENT IN THEIR WORDS.

IN THE INITIAL DAYS AND WEEKS, THEY SUCCEED IN BREAKING YOU DOWN IN A WAY THAT YOU FEEL NOTHING MORE THAN AS IF YOU'RE A SCARED ANIMAL AWAITING ANOTHER BEATING.

IT'S DEHUMANIZING IN EVERY WAY.

BUT AS TIME DRAGGED ON AND THE CASE AND THE AWARENESS AROUND MY CASE KIND OF PICKED UP MOMENTUM, I BEGIN TO FEEL A BIT OF STRENGTH AND CONFIDENCE, NOT ONLY IN THE FACT THAT I KNEW THAT I WAS INNOCENT, BUT ALSO THAT THE ASSERTIONS THAT THEY WERE MAKING ABOUT ME WERE NOT ONES THAT THE REST OF THE WORLD WAS GOING TO REALLY BUY INTO.

SO, IT MADE IT VERY MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO STAND UP FOR MYSELF, ESPECIALLY WHEN I WAS OUTSIDE OF THE PRISON WALLS.

I MEAN, YOU TALK ABOUT THAT KANGAROO COURT.

IT'S THE REVOLUTIONARY COURT OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN.

IT'S GOT A VERY SERIOUS NAME, AND THE CONSEQUENCES ARE OFTEN VERY SERIOUS, BUT THE PROCESS THAT TAKES PLACE IN THERE CAN'T BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

IT'S SO FARCICAL AND RIDICULOUS.

THERE'S NO EVIDENCE.

YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO DEFEND YOURSELF.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE BEING TAPED FOR THE PURPOSE PROBABLY OF PROPAGANDA, STATE MEDIA PROPAGANDA PURPOSES, THAT I JUST THOUGHT TO MYSELF, HERE I AM.

I'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS FOR SO LONG.

THE WIND IN SOME WAYS, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE FOUR BIG, VERY TOWERING WALLS AROUND ME, THE WIND IS AT MY BACK BECAUSE THE WORLD IS WITH ME.

HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT?

BECAUSE THEY KEPT TELLING YOU THAT THE WORLD HAD FORGOTTEN ABOUT YOU, DIDN'T CARE ABOUT YOU, AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE ABSURDITY OF THE CHARGES.

I WANT YOU TO TELL ME THE SO-CALLED AVOCADO STORY.

SO, IN THE OPENING WEEKS AND MONTHS, THEY WERE VERY ADAMANT ABOUT THE FACT THAT NOBODY CARED AND THAT NOBODY WAS LIFTING A FINGER, NOBODY WAS MAKING ANY NOISE ABOUT ME.

AND IN THE CONFINES OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S TRUE.

IT OBVIOUSLY WAS NOT TRUE.

ONE OF THE FIRST ACCUSATIONS THEY MADE AGAINST ME WAS THAT A FAILED KICK-STARTER PROJECT, YOU KNOW, THE CROWDFUNDING WEBSITE THAT I HAD PUT UP IN 2010 WITH THE ASPIRATION OF BRINGING THE AVOCADO PLANT TO IRAN, A COUNTRY WHERE YOU CAN GROW ALMOST ANYTHING, BUT ODDLY ENOUGH, DIDN'T HAVE THE AVOCADOS.

GIVE THE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO THEIR GUACAMOLE.

THIS BECAME THE BIGGEST CHARGE AGAINST ME.

THIS WAS DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT I HAD A SECRET SPY MISSION.

THEY WEREN'T SURE WHAT IT WAS, BUT IT WAS CODE FOR SOMETHING AND IT WAS NEFARIOUS.

IT WAS ONE OF THE MANY THINGS THAT THEY ACCUSED ME OF THAT OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T HOLD ANY WATER.

BUT AS TIME DRAGGED ON AND I WAS TAKEN OUT OF SOLITARY, I HAD ACCESS TO IRANIAN STATE TELEVISION FOR A LARGE PART OF THE FINAL MONTHS OF MY DETENTION, I COULD SEE THE CASE THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO MAKE AGAINST ME IN THE IRANIAN PUBLIC'S EYE, AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT WAS JUST A RESPONSE TO ALL OF THE SUPPORT THAT I WAS GETTING OUTSIDE IN THE REST OF THE WORLD.

SO, WE TALKED ABOUT ANTHONY BOURDAIN.

WE TALKED ABOUT MY FAMILY.

BUT THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE, TOO.

I MEAN, MUHAMMAD ALI, ONE OF THE LAST THINGS THAT HE DID IN LIFE WAS PUT OUT A STATEMENT CALLING FOR MY RELEASE.

WELL, LET ME READ IT.

LET ME READ IT, JASON, BECAUSE I MUST SAY, I WAS JUST AMAZED TO SEE THIS.

IN 2015, HE SAID, 'I'M SORRY THAT I CANNOT BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT TO LEND MY SUPPORT IN PERSON, BUT I PRAY THAT MY WORDS WILL PROVIDE RELIEF TO THE EFFORTS TO SECURE THE RELEASE OF JASON REZAIAN.

IT IS MY GREAT HOPE THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND JUDICIARY OF IRAN WILL END THE PROLONGED DETENTION OF JOURNALIST JASON REZAIAN.'

I MEAN, IT IS EXTRAORDINARY, AND THAT MUST HAVE CARRIED SOME WEIGHT.

HE IS A FAMOUS MUSLIM.

EXACTLY.

I MEAN, IN AMERICA, WE THINK OF HIM AS AN AMERICAN HERO.

IN IRAN AND OTHER MUSLIM COUNTRIES, HE'S A MUSLIM HERO.

AND YOU KNOW, HE MATTERS, AND HIS WORDS MATTER.

I WAS TREATED DIFFERENTLY.

I WAS LOOKED AT DIFFERENTLY BY MY GUARDS, AND THE AUTHORITIES IN IRAN WERE VERY ANGRY ABOUT THAT.

THEY WROTE ARTICLES IN SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE MOST HARDLINE NEWSPAPERS THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS GREAT HERO HAD BEEN DUPED INTO SUPPORTING THIS SPY.

AND YOU KNOW, THEY WERE LOSING A BATTLE OF PUBLIC OPINION AT EVERY TURN.

AND HOW COULD I, WITH THE LITTLE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON, NOT HAVE MY SHOULDERS LIFTED JUST A LITTLE BIT HIGHER, KNOWING THAT MUHAMMAD ALI AND MANY OTHER PROMINENT PEOPLE WERE PUBLICLY DEMANDING THAT I BE SET FREE?

YES, I MEAN, I THINK THAT IS AN AMAZING MOMENT.

BUT HOW DID YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR INTERROGATORS CHANGE?

FIRST OF ALL, DID THEY PHYSICALLY ABUSE YOU?

FORTUNATELY, CHRISTIANE, I WAS ABLE TO AVOID BEING PHYSICALLY HARMED.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I TALK ABOUT TORTURE AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE IS A VERY REAL THING THAT I EXPERIENCED AND THAT MY WIFE EXPERIENCED, AND IT'S A LEGACY THAT WILL LIVE WITH US FOREVER, BUT WE WERE SPARED FROM BEING PHYSICALLY ATTACKED.

OVER TIME, I TOOK THAT TO MEAN THAT I HAD SOME VALUE AND THAT THEY KNEW THAT THEY WOULD LET ME GO SOME DAY, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT EARLY ON.

I DIDN'T -- I COULDN'T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND THAT.

544 DAYS IS A LONG TIME.

AND WHEN YOU ARE IN SUCH ISOLATION WITH SO FEW CHARACTERS AROUND YOU -- I HAD ONE CELLMATE FOR A TIME AND THEN ANOTHER, AND THERE WAS A REVOLVING CAST OF GUARDS WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE BASICALLY TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE IN YOUR CELL AND THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE FED WHEN YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE FED AND TAKEN TO INTERROGATION WHEN YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TAKEN.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE INTERROGATORS.

THERE IS A VERY FEW NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT I CAME INTO CONTACT WITH FOR A YEAR AND A HALF.

SO YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD SOME RELATIONSHIPS.

AND I THINK IF YOU'VE NOT BEEN IN THAT SORT OF SITUATION, IT WOULD BE HARD TO GRASP THE NOTION THAT YOU'RE GETTING TO KNOW SOMEBODY.

THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE THAT I WOULD ACTIVELY CHOOSE TO GET TO KNOW, BUT I WAS FORCED TO.

AND IN THAT PROCESS, I COULD FIND OUT SOME OF THEIR WEAKNESSES, SOME OF THEIR LIKES, WAYS THAT I COULD TRY AND INGRATIATE MYSELF TO THEM.

AND I HOPE WHEN PEOPLE READ THE BOOK, THEY UNDERSTAND THAT I WAS IN A WEIRD SITUATION THAT NO ONE HOPES TO FIND THEMSELVES IN, AND I DID MY BEST TO COPE WITH IT AND USE THE PEOPLE SKILLS THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DEVELOP OVER A LIFETIME TO MY ADVANTAGE.

TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU DEVELOPED SUCH A RAPPORT WITH SOME OF THEM THAT YOU ENDED UP HUGGING THEM WHEN YOU LEFT.

I HUGGED ONE OF THEM BECAUSE HE WAS MY MAIN ADVERSARY.

HE WAS THE GUY THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, BREAKING ME DOWN FROM DAY ONE, AND IT'S A TORMENTED RELATIONSHIP.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, MY FEELING WAS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS INCREDIBLE ORDEAL THAT IN SOME WAYS IS A VERY PUBLIC OCCURRENCE, YOU KNOW?

IT'S A HISTORICAL MOMENT.

THAT WAS A YEAR AND A HALF THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT IN THE WORLD PRESS AND WE WERE THE TWO PEOPLE ON THE FRONT LINES OF THIS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

NOT THAT I FEEL ANY SORT OF LOSS OR MISSING OF HIM, BUT IT WAS THE END OF A VERY INTENSE CHAPTER IN MY LIFE.

IT'S REALLY INTERESTING TO HEAR WHAT YOU SAY IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE ONE ALWAYS WONDERS HOW ONE WOULD BEHAVE IF ONE WAS IN THE SAME SITUATION.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT THE AVOCADO TREE.

NOW, AS CRAZY AS IT SOUNDS, YOU KNOW THAT THEY HAVE PEOPLE IN PRISON IN IRAN RIGHT NOW --

FOR LESS.

WELL, AND FOR CLIMATE, ENVIRONMENTAL WORK, AND THEY ACCUSE THEM OF BEING SPIES.

AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF IRANIAN AMERICANS IN PRISON IN IRAN RIGHT NOW.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAPPENED TO HIT THE SWEET SPOT, IF I MIGHT SAY THAT, THAT THERE WERE REAL NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON WITH IRAN AND THE UNITED STATES, AND YOU WERE ABLE TO BE RELEASED AT THE END OF THAT NEGOTIATION.

WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS FOR THOSE IRANIAN AMERICANS WHO ARE IN JAIL RIGHT NOW AT A TIME WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ADMINISTRATION IS VERY HOSTILE TO IRAN, TO SAY THE LEAST?

MY HEART BREAKS FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES ON A DAILY BASIS.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE RIGHT, I AM THE HAPPY ENDING, AND IT TOOK 544 DAYS FOR ME TO BE SPRUNG FROM THAT SITUATION.

AT THIS MOMENT, WE DON'T SEE ANYTHING HAPPENING BETWEEN THE U.S. AND IRAN THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT THERE ARE NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING HELD, AMERICANS AND ALSO BRITISH AND CANADIAN NATIONALS AS WELL.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT ENGAGING WITH IRAN AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DID IN TERMS OF NEGOTIATING WITH IRAN -- WITHOUT AN OPEN CHANNEL TO DISCUSS THESE CASES, AND I WOULD CALL THEM ALL HOSTAGE CASES -- SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY TO ME, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW IF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING HELD IN IRANIAN PRISONS ARE INNOCENT OR NOT.

WELL, BASED ON ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT I EXPERIENCED MYSELF, I'M GOING TO SAY THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE INNOCENT UNTIL THEY'RE PROVEN GUILTY, AND NOT ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN PROVEN GUILTY OF ANY CRIME.

SO UNTIL THERE IS A PROCESS OF NEGOTIATION SET UP TO BRING THESE PEOPLE HOME, I DON'T SEE ANY WAY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO COME HOME, AND I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE ALL BEING HELD AS LEVERAGE FOR SOME FUTURE CONCESSION.

MAYBE JUST PLAY --

JUST AS I WAS.

INDEED.

LET ME JUST GO BACK TO WHEN YOU WERE RELEASED, YOU CAME BACK TO THE 'WASHINGTON POST' IN WASHINGTON, AND YOU KNOW, YOU WERE WELCOMED BY MEMBERS OF YOUR COLLEAGUES THERE.

HERE'S A LITTLE CLIP.

PROBABLY A WEEK OR SO AFTER JASON GOT BACK, HE CAME TO THE 'POST.'

HE WALKED IN THE BUILDING, AND IT WAS A HERO'S WELCOME.

I THINK EVERYONE WAS JUST ON THE VERGE OF TEARS THE WHOLE TIME.

AND JASON STOOD UP.

MY IRANIAN INTERROGATORS TOLD ME THAT THE 'WASHINGTON POST' DID NOT EXIST, THAT NO ONE KNEW OF MY PLIGHT, AND THAT THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT WOULD NOT LIFT A FINGER FOR MY RELEASE.

TODAY I'M HERE IN THIS ROOM WITH THE VERY PEOPLE WHO HELPED PROVE THE IRANIANS WRONG.

WELL, IT IS, AGAIN, VERY EMOTIONAL AND VERY RELEVANT TO WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT.

YOU SAW SECRETARY OF STATE KERRY PROMINENT IN THAT CLIP, AND OF COURSE, HE SPENT AS MUCH TIME AS HE COULD WITH HIS COUNTERPART, JAVA ZARIF, WHICH HAPPENED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CONCLUSION OF THIS IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL.

SO, LET ME ASK YOU HOW YOU FEEL NOW.

YOU SAY THAT YOU'VE BEEN CHANGED, THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU INDICATED AT THE BEGINNING THAT YOU STILL, YOU KNOW, HAVE NIGHTMARES.

HOW HAVE YOU CHANGED?

I THINK THAT PHYSICALLY I'M DIFFERENT.

THE SHAPE OF MY BODY IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS WHEN I WENT IN.

I WENT THROUGH A RAPID WEIGHT LOSS IN A VERY HARSH SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES.

I'VE GOT ACHES AND PAINS THAT PROBABLY WON'T GO AWAY, RESPIRATORY ISSUES THAT HAVE PERSISTED IN THE THREE YEARS SINCE I'VE BEEN OUT.

BUT MORE THAN THAT, IT'S DIFFERENCE IN MY BRAIN FUNCTIONS, MY SENSITIVITY TO LIGHT AND SOUND, YOU KNOW, MY ANXIETY IN CONFINED SPACES, MY CONFUSION IN CROWDS.

THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT ARE VERY NORMAL FOR SOMEBODY WHO HAS EXPERIENCED A LONG, SUSTAINED PERIOD OF TRAUMA, BUT NOT NORMAL FOR ME AND THE INNER WORKINGS OF MY OWN BRAIN THAT EXISTED BEFORE ALL OF THIS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S A CONSTANT PROCESS OF REGETTING TO KNOW MYSELF, BUT I THINK I'M DOING PRETTY GOOD AT IT AT THIS POINT.

WELL, AND BY THE LOOKS OF YOUR BOOK, YOU ARE DOING PRETTY GOOD.

WE SEND YOU ALL OUR SUPPORT AND THANKS.

YOU'RE A COLLEAGUE, AND WE ARE VERY, VERY PLEASED TO SEE THAT YOU ARE FREE AND YOU ARE WRITING AND YOU'RE TELLING THE WORLD YOUR STORY.

JASON REZAIAN, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT OF PRESS FREEDOM AND ME.

A REMARKABLE STORY OF TRIUMPH OVER ADVERSITY FROM JASON REZAIAN, WHO IS, BY THE WAY, SUING THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT IN U.S. COURT.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' ON PBS, AND JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.