Speaker I had worked the first time with Dick even before I was a model. I don't I don't even remember how it came about, but he tested me for Revlon, too. And I remember going just because I wanted to meet him. But I knew in my heart that I didn't want to work. I had this prejudice, like, I guess a lot of people that I wasn't I didn't want to be a model. I was younger. I must have been 18 or 19. And I thought I was just going to be a journalist. That sounded much more intelligent. So then I haven't seen it for a long time and I haven't heard anything from the city.
Speaker So I can't say that I turned reveler. I think they didn't want me there.
Speaker And 10 years later, because I really became a model at 28 and I first did a series of photo with Bruce Weber and for Vogue.
Speaker And then I was sent to see Bill King. And then with when Alex Lieberman saw my photo immediately send me to Avidan, who knew me that when I photographed 10 years ago and nobody thought it was anything. And then I start going with him all the time, because by then, you know, once Abbadon photographed you, you got all the cover of Vogue and you become this what they call today, a superpower. So it was one I think when I start working consistently as a model, mostly we take the beginning.
Speaker Well, I was very lucky to work with it, because beyond his enormous talent as a photographer, he's very articulated. So he explained to me what a model was supposed to do. And I was able to shed all my prejudice against modeling and understood through him. What a fantastic job it is. Especially with him. There is, I would say, very little difference with acting. I think. But what what what you have to do as a model is to exude a feeling, the fact that you're beautiful.
Speaker It's a give. And, you know, you did what they would hire you. I mean, it sounds awfully pretentious of me to talk like that, but I mean, they do hire beautiful women. You know, that's not your you know, your you're not. They're posing pretty.
Speaker They hate that. They are there to make sure that you look at your best. What you have to do is to concentrate as an actress would do and exude some sort of feeling concentrated to something. And. I told a story because I remember posing with the photographer work differently, some take many, many pictures, some think very little picture and did takes very few photos. He stands in front of you with the camera, stares at your face like that. He says, Well, I don't like what you think.
Speaker You change your thinking. That story is a little bit more interesting. Well, try something else. When I was a you know, I was very obedient, so I would change my thoughts and, you know, think of something else. I was looking at the camera and when I said, you know what I'm thinking? So I went back to I thought that I had, which I don't know, was maybe something at home, you know, my children or something. And said to me, no, no, no, I already told you, I don't like whatever you think. I don't like that. And like that. Or change your thought. He could read. He doesn't know what I think. But he can see the emotion. And that, to me, was an incredible lesson. You can see the emotion.
Speaker And I think as a model, that's what you have to do. You have to exude an emotion and you have to feel that emotion in order for you to exude it. Let it come out.
Speaker And how does he help you get there? What are the other ways of getting him and what he wants for that particular.
Speaker Well, a lot of work is done beforehand, you know, uh. So as you working chicks long time to have your makeup done, your hair done to try on the different clothes and then the accessories. And then you pose, you know, then you see you use, since he often will, with a very big camera. You could easily go out of focus. So you do not pose like you would do with an automatic camera. You can really move and, you know, you do a lot of things. So you have to stay very still because otherwise you go out of focus. So they pose you. They say, no, the shoulder, a little bit like that, like that. They really compose you like a sculpture. And then once you're in that position, that's the moment for you to concentrate. Now, all the previous work that you do before will all come by an idea. You know, as you are there, you will you will look at your hair and you will look at your makeup and you look at the jewelry and you look at the clothes. And little by little. This persona will come to life. So you would have to follow that flow, you know, and go in and portray what everybody is contributing. Your makeup artist to have personal style is to create.
Speaker I remember once I, I had. It was very it was a cover of Vogue and we had a little scarf and Dick wanted this scarf to stay up. And the scarf since it was silk kept on collapsing.
Speaker And that was I had to stay in this sitting on a little chair, always in the same position. And this could collapse and would collapse. And there was so me that I was trying to perspire just because of the effort of saying hello.
Speaker And you said to me, you know, as I understand it is very hard. But, you know, God is in details. And it's true. You do build up in details of what it is an image. And to me, it's it's it's even more mysterious. You know, a lot of people say, oh, it's much more interesting to be an actress than being a model, but not for me. For me, when you do a film, you have a scene, you have the music. You have the story. It's all there to help you portray that person when you do a photo. You have one frame. And that frame has to have the emotion, has to have an atmosphere. And it's much more mysterious how one photo works and the other doesn't work. And why is that always sometimes in the same sitting? You know, you take many pictures and then there is one that has a life. It has a magic. What does it I don't know. Is it the moment that I was most concentrated or is the way the light hits me? Or is it the way because the color is up means what it is, but at a certain point, everything works. To me, that is always the biggest mystery. When Abbadon was fixing discolor night little scarf. One day I was very revealing. To me it's true. I mean, even the simplest gesture that we do, you know, if you take your jacket and wear it like that, yeah, it's all completely gives you a different persona that if you wear it like that, if you have your shirt is open, your shirt is close. You know, it's little details, but it's from that that you build up. And I think even people that haven't been in fashion Herald photographer aren't models. No. They just, by the way, to wear you wear your jacket. You can be it just give you a hint of a different person.
Speaker Is there a lot of people sitting there? And secondly, very, very different.
Speaker So I think that when we started to work until I understood, I remember today, I understood I needed to act it. I think at the beginning I thought I just had to be obedient, you know? So I was very available and very brilliant. And I just followed his instruction.
Speaker And then I think all of a sudden, you know, as I was waiting for whatever I called her to stay out pins to be, I, I drift off in a thought.
Speaker And he said, that's that's interesting. See, that's interesting.
Speaker So I was taken aback because I thought I got distracted. I thought, oh, my God, you know, I made a mistake here. I'm drifting off. I said, Really? That's interesting. Yes. That's interesting to more of that. So I went back to the thoughts and just didn't, you know, and just let myself be free.
Speaker So he would direct me if I would think of that thought and that thought would take me in my head, my turn. And he said, no, no, bring it back at the head. But you still are in your thoughts, you know. So that changed completely the direction almo. He photographed me before because before I was just looking at him like this, you know, just obeying. I don't know if it wasn't anything. I was pretty bold. It was just photographing a beautiful girl. And I don't know everything else conveyed the emotion, the clothing, the dramatic lactate until the day that I understood just by making a mistake. And he pointed out just where I thought he was a mistake and in pointing it out and encouraging me that way.
Speaker I think that I was so lucky to work with people like Dick and other great photographers at the beginning of my career, and I attribute the fact that I had a long one of the longest career in modelling because of their teaching. Really because I didn't you know, you always.
Speaker I mean, this is awful, awful to to to admit. Well, one of the last things that you are concerned when you do a fashion photography is the clothing. The clothing will always work because you can always pose and make it work. But. The photographer, you know.
Speaker I mean, nowadays with my agent, when he calls me, he says this magazine wants to photograph you. Don't ask which clothes are we photographing? I would say, which is the photographer. And that's how you build your career. The quality of your career. It's a terrible thing to say. I mean, because. But I really think that the fashion industry used the art of photography and brought it at their service. You know, and they are using it and it's not yet known. You know, the commerciality of it is seen by the people and the artistry of it is belittled by the fact that ultimately we are all there selling clothes or selling dream or selling makeup.
Speaker But that is the art in it. That that makes it makes it gives you the image, gives you the magic, gives you the dreamy quality.
Speaker Talk about particular sitting. This is good. We'll be.
Speaker I see. To me, that is always very interesting to look at the picture, because I always look at the final photo that has been chosen. You know, as as your posing and you thinking, I have done this photo twelve years ago.
Speaker So I don't know exactly. I don't remember. I wish I would see them two weeks later not to really check if I'm beautiful or not.
Speaker That's. You always take that that they will even higher. You don't think you're beautiful, so you don't have to think about that. You know, I would just I would like to know what I did. Each photo to know what, what, what what is the thing that is effective and what isn't effective.
Speaker Sediq takes very few peak pictures. You know, this is one. And then immediately changes is a you know, this is a if you if you want. This is another picture. I mean, it's a different parties. It takes very few photos. And other photographers take many, many, many of the work with him taking. Many use it with very few. This one actually was the city where I understood that I had to act like. I think you can see it. I don't know. I mean, such tell. But even here, you see I could see that I understood it because I not only move my hands, but there is different emotion in my face.
Speaker You know, it isn't only the angle of my face. It changes on my hands.
Speaker It changes position. I remember the day it happened. We worked for days together on a big spread for American Vogue and.
Speaker And I think in the middle of these two days, it had up and down to like a puppet and to as an actor, I think he does.
Speaker I don't know if he remembers it, but I I did tell him, you know, several times and probably with him more than any.
Speaker I can't say with you know, he has been such an inspiration to the new generation of photographers that a lot of photographers are looking at his work, you know, to to it as an Marge, as an inspiration in his work. There is so much emotion and so much glamour that I think that is the model of the time. And say, how did Dick directed you and what was the thing? So I think that now there are more photographers, that director like a director.
Speaker But if you if you take a photographer like Bruce Weber, he works more like a sculpture. Bruce, do these photos sometimes are incredibly dynamic. I mean, he's done fantastic forums, sport people. I mean, I don't know if they were. I'm sure he had them posed. And yet it looks like they are just about to leap in and jump. Because I've done those photo. I wasn't leaping in the jump. You just tenses you and you really direct you like a sculpture. He says bit more tension on your on your hand. See this muscle tense that went up? Because actually, you know, it will create a nice shadow. It really is like a sculpture, you know, and then you stay that and you stay in that position for a long time. And it's pretty hard physically. But the results, even if you stand still, the result might be very dynamic.
Speaker Just to wait for the emotion by naming it.
Speaker No, I don't think so. I don't think he never said to me, I want you to look sad. I want you to look happy. I want to look you surprise.
Speaker I think he was more observing me.
Speaker And all of a sudden taking a glimpse and encouraging in that direction and I think is the day that I called, I made a mistake by drifting off the family and emotion came up because he understood that I was there just being obedient. You know, just being very careful, looking at him and just, you know, just being attentive. And that was one emotion, you know, concentration and trying to listen. But that's one face listening. And then the moment I stopped listening to him, it's no, he never said to me, stop listening to me or do this, too, that I think I would have been confused.
Speaker I wouldn't have understood and probably knew that it was just more observing me.
Speaker And also another thing is that that will sort of film directors.
Speaker And I think that there is disparity. You know, when they take photos of you in films, when it makes the they you know, they make it seem like fashion photographers and the fashion professor would say to them all, you're so beautiful, so beautiful. And you say, oh, my God, this is a world of narcissists, but it isn't.
Speaker It is that they if you feel appreciated and loved or liked. I feel more free. I feel more. I always worked better with the photographer of director that says that's good. Which you've done. That's so interesting. So, you know, like an enthusiast, when you you then you do more. You want to do more than the one that's just. You know, then I get so intimidated and I feel that some people work only that way. Who knows? Bill King used to be a marvelous photographer. I think only worked. I think he needed it more. He maybe didn't. He was a very kind person, but he was very formal. So he didn't know how to be warm and bring, you know, create a situation where you're warm and you just start by friendship, bringing up emotion. So I think he irritated people. He did everything to irritated people because he picked models, mostly because models. You know, you learn a few tricks. You learn what is your best profile? What is the best thing you know?
Speaker A lot of not very good photographers. I'm pretty happy just photographing a pretty girl. So you just stand there and, you know, you just do the faces. And and Bill hated that, too. I think he had always this big fan. And you spray Lil's water so you get water on your face. And I this and in the noise, you know, at a certain point you start looking at him with a certain. That's when he liked it.
Speaker Because you still you would do the beauty because, you know, you had you were. But you just a moment where you were still posing. Your neck was long. Your shoulders were back. You were beautiful. But your eyes were a little bit upset. That's the moment you took the photo. And in fact, if you look at his work, all these women out there is this kind of glamorous anger. You know, they're frightening women. It just got it by imitating them.
Speaker Bill King. Yes. No, no, no.
Speaker I don't know if Dick. I think Dick because he the range of his work is so enormous.
Speaker I wondered if he would use that technique if it came necessary to him. But.
Speaker He's a very warm person, or at least he was always very warm to me, and we always do lots of conversations. And so I never had that experience. You know, I never had that experience.
Speaker It was it was all more than a compliment, like, oh, it was beautiful.
Speaker No, not that stupid. But he's like he's very enthusiastic, isn't he?
Speaker Like a young man, you know, who you know a lot of that, you know. So he kind of also wakes you up. He has an energy.
Speaker I love to gave the speech. I went to a big dinner on his honor, too. You know, it was like Korea. And he gave a speech and I gave him my Mattrick for in the end.
Speaker And they give him the microphone and he said he's not he's going to wait. That had too much to give a speech like this.
Speaker You will hear, because that was my mantra, because I was like a marionette. It was. It was the movie was fantastic. You know, this is the better. He is giving this the speech of his life. But, hey, you're moving two miles around. You hear of every to every word, every 10.
Speaker Yes. Oh, yes. Well, this was a you. This was a did did did Dick a beautiful, beautiful photo of my mother. And he was looking for that photo because he wanted to. Photograph me. Be holding up a photo of my mother. But he couldn't find a photo that he did because the photo did.
Speaker It did. It was really fantastic. And so I think we viewed some other photos that he had found. And, you know, in a magazine. From a film. And, you know, it was really it. This has nothing to do with a professional comment is more of a personal thing. But.
Speaker When I understood it was all the same sitting, when I understood that I had to act to that modeling and acting the same job. Only modeling, you don't talk, you know, you don't react. But. It's the same kind of concentration, is the same kind of presence. It's the same kind of charisma that you have to exude. And then we take that speech. I would have never done it. You know, because I never wanted to feel like I was taking advantage of my parents in any way. And it was easier for me to become first a model and then an actress because my family or my mother's reputation was so enormous in acting that I never dared to be an actress. I did becoming an actress. After I became a model, a successful model, after I decided that maybe it wasn't that enormous bridge, as people tend to say. And in that setting, we did this photo. And my mother died the next day. So she was never able to see this. And I was really sad. It was really she knew that I had done the photo and she was quite enthusiastic.
Speaker I was watching the take that she'd never seen. The final results.
Speaker Would you take truth? I don't know, because I think I was a little bit afraid.
Speaker You know, I mean, I trusted sooner or later people had to know that I was Ingrid Bergman daughter, you know, as a mole. I never wanted anybody to write my name or mention it, but I knew that sooner or later it was going to be revealed. So.
Speaker Best was. But I think that as I was doing it.
Speaker If anything, I was a little bit embarrassed, you know, a little bit like. You know, like.
Speaker What place have I got to make? You know, looking at my mother's photo admiration.
Speaker You know, I was a little bit like, you know.
Speaker It's always very hard to me, too, is easy. That's wild for modeling, it's easier when it comes to acting. It's easy work. When you have to portray either an emotion or another person. And then when he has to be you. And very personal charges in it. The portraits are the hardest to do. I guess that really and I feel that this photo of me holding my mother's photo with more of a portrait. So it's hard when people say to me, just be yourself. I don't know who myself is. You know, I wear my you know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it means. I just.
Speaker Damn, you know, then if you're in front of a camera and everybody stares at you and then if you're persona and this is a glamorous lady and you have these clothes that you would never wear because you wouldn't be a role for them and for a million dollars of jewelry, then a lot of images come to mind. A lot of it is easier. It's easier to to be to become someone else than being yourself.
Speaker You know, I think that was it. Unless, you know, unless you consider some of the book covers portraits, you know, which especially Dick the way it did them, there were big faces, really. It was your face, you know, that counted.
Speaker But still, there was a lot of it. It was just an emotion. Yeah, I was so embarrassed because he was just holding my mother with him. I just didn't know. You know, so many people expect me to have them.
Speaker What should be my nature? How to please people? That's my piece.
Speaker Should I admire or should I love her? What is to be the thing that I have to do most with my mother? Because I do them all. I'm even also angry at her. You know, I'm the daughter. I'm allowed to every feeling. But publicly, what do I show when I think that I'm kind of Swede's?
Speaker You know, I could see that. I'm embarrassed to. See, I could see that. I'm embarrassed to leave the. And I think I just.
Speaker Yeah, I think I'm just a little embarrassed, but I thought, well.
Speaker Losing me was.
Speaker There was a dignity, you know, there was a great dignity. I don't know if she had all the hair pulled back and. It was just the simplicity. You know, it was just her face with a hand on her face like that. And. There was a sense of purity. You know, there was a sense of if there was one feeling, it was this great sense of. Great dignity, which she had.
Speaker You know, but. She had she was a great lady without being round. She wasn't grand at all. In fact.
Speaker No, she wasn't. No, she she she died, really. I stopped modeling in one and my mother died in 82. So she knew that I was working and I was successful.
Speaker She hasn't seen really, you know, my career taking off as it had.
Speaker Yes, she did. She did. My mother would, I think, would have liked to have. One of the children, uh. Do her work because. Because actors are very.
Speaker Companies with one another, and she would have liked to come home and gossip about the other people, but also gossip about the character that you do, you know their eyebrows when you give that character and how would you hold your shoulders and, you know, little things like that. I think she would have loved to have somebody at home that these kind of conversations.
Speaker Yes, but I recognize, you know, once you are in this job, you recognize you recognized the photographer. I don't even have to read the side of the page who is done.
Speaker You know, I can pick up any vogue and say Avenal. Pen King. Bruce Weber. Steven Mysel or Peter Lemba.
Speaker You know, you could once you are in the business, you if they are good photographer, they would have a very specific signature, but only good. Very good photographer. A very specific signature. Gender is a group of photographers that I say you just photograph the girl, pretty girl, you know, and that they can get to be bland. I mean, it is still appealing. You can see look at it and say, well, how appealing it is. But that kind of photography to me is less interesting. That kind of. See, I'm a model.
Speaker I'm in it because of the photography, essentially. Only lately I've been discovered that there is an art in the fashion. But again, you know, unfortunately, when it comes down to it, there are very few people. I mean, it's a terrible thing. It sounds stuffy, snobbish, but. But there is a very small group of people that are of immense quality.
Speaker You know that they are the great masters. Um. But again, you know, once you are in this job and you love what you do, you recognize you can open any magazine. And I would recognize an evidence photo even sometimes if it's completely new.
Speaker You know, you can just it could it be Avodart and it is, you know, because it's just I don't know. I don't know how to know how to tell. I don't know how I can.
Speaker Hi, guys. I know it's hard, but Charles. Go into the.
Speaker Well, there is an energy that that, first of all, there is atmosphere in any food or of an excellent photographer.
Speaker There is. If the photo has to be fashion or if the photo has to, because Mattick, it's a given, that girl has to be beautiful. So that's a given. You don't even look at it if that's the only stages you get to. That's. Interesting it out. Right. So.
Speaker Avidan, you know, you wouldn't stop at that.
Speaker So that photo would have something more than just a beautiful girl.
Speaker It will have an energy, it would have a mystery. He would have an all atmosphere and in fact would start talking very abstractly. But you can even kind of if you want if you let your mind go, you can also mind kind of imagine a whole world of this woman, you know, that photo that takes you by the hand into kind of a. You know, like at the edge of an horizon then that you dream about it.
Speaker That's when you know that there is a great photographer behind you. Might be I might be talking to, you know, an abstract way.
Speaker That's the way that's the way I feel. You know, something that is a life of his own, that all of a sudden I look at a photo and I say. You know, an atmosphere takes me. Uh.
Speaker You know, I can compare it when it's a time when you read a very good book, you know.
Speaker And then.
Speaker And then you snap back to their own reality of euro chair. And everybody had that rare that happen.
Speaker You know, you come out of a movie theater and you are so taken by a good performance or that you feel like the heroine, you feel like Scarlett O'Hara.
Speaker You talk a little bit like you move a little bit like that. The.
Speaker That's why I have to you know, that that good photo will do just be on a good fashion or cosmetic photo will just go beyond the beauty of a girl. And he would. And he would have a whole world that it's mysterious because it's one frame, and yet you send something, you don't have quite all the answers.
Speaker But, you know, there it is.
Speaker It stimulates your imagination.
Speaker Is there one particular fashion photo that move people to that other world that you can think of? Saying what is?
Speaker It's hard to tell because there are so many that I can pick, one, you know, in particular.
Speaker The hoosegow all folded up.
Speaker Or, you know, it's hard to tell because sometimes you look at some photos. You know, right now we're just seeing a food related. I wonder if this one is supposed or not.
Speaker I'm sure it was, but he certainly doesn't. Come across, is that. That says model. Lisa Daniels.
Speaker So it was both.
Speaker But it looks like, you know, that you had seen something that's not so great because he he can photograph something that he sees can capture it in one second.
Speaker But he can also be constructed in a way that he doesn't. And you don't feel the the work looks like a glimpse. You know, something that struck you.
Speaker Can you imagine? Just to bring the elephant in. Why did you bring.
Speaker Did you bring the VEMA to the elephant to reveal the elephant that already but all this angle, you know, the body, the hips, the hands.
Speaker Well, that you know, it's a. You know, there is a body language and for sure a used body language used the body language.
Speaker He taught us how to use in a still photo the body to convey an emotion. There is a hit.
Speaker Hands outstretched away. Arms, you know, that shape creates an emotion like an abstract painting. Has one line and you feel something. Same way, I guess. I think it works that way.
Speaker You find yourself using your body to express what you do.
Speaker I think you have you you only have that, in fact. Now, I mean this new. Now, I mean, this new thing, you know, I've been mostly a model of done photography, and lately I've been done. I've been doing some runways and I found a whole new world in two. IN2 just walking that corridor and going back, you could walk very differently. You know, you can convey and you can see every designer will have an idea. Every good designer will have an idea of.
Speaker We have a concept behind their fashion. And your walk can help convey that idea.
Speaker You know, if you're if your clothes are very loose and you once you close, you know, the designer wants to have a fashion that is very comfortable and very loose. Well, you walk should should convey that idea. And if the instead is very sexy and very structured and he wants you to be more, you have to walk in a different way. Body language.
Speaker Absolutely possible. It's great to see. This is.
Speaker You know, yesterday I was looking at film and I was looking at Fred Astaire that you would think I wouldn't be able to step like him. But, you know, sometimes it was it it was a. In fact, I will. I was working today with these new designers, Dolce and Gabbana, and I was saying to them, you should look at. You should look at Fred Astaire. He would be a very good idea for the runway. So obviously didn't want. Then what? Then I'm gonna hire dancers. You know, it will to be us still. But I think he would be you know, it's detail, as Avidan said, is the way you hold your head, your neck is your head back. Is the head up. You know, it changes everything.
Speaker God is in details as he said it, and there's still more to be found as I go along. Oh my God, I forgot to my toes. I can do that with my toes.
Speaker You know, there is so much that you can use to convey that ideas that the different ideas.
Speaker You've also become a friend of Dick's, too. Well, yes, a little bit.
Speaker It's one of the signature qualities of Dick as a friend.
Speaker I'm very honored that you listed as his friend, are you? To me, I always want to go with him because he saw articulated. He says things that are so brilliant.
Speaker And, you know, I've been thinking about something for years. And all of a sudden he says in one sentence, I thought, wow, you know, like his photo.
Speaker We need a whole film. Takes one frame.
Speaker So just the exchange is so interesting. Yes.
Speaker One of his themes that seems to roll for his work that is talked about in interviews.
Speaker The great glory of beauty with the isolation. Yes.
Speaker I've never seen anything that romantic, and I took the bigger picture.
Speaker No, I'm glad to be a model.
Speaker There is a certain element of drama in this photo, that's for sure. You know, I see more in the portrait, you know, uh, even even when you shut them away from.
Speaker You know, the work he did in a hospital or something like that, even if you take the evident drama of it.
Speaker But you take the straight portrait that he does. Um.
Speaker If I'm allowed to say that I'm free. But, you know, sometimes that Diane Arbus worked with him as an assistant.
Speaker Because. It's almost as if she took what is almost Latin in there and made it her photography. You know, it's very evident to kind of grotesque. There's something the contradiction that the people do what they are trying to hide, it comes across and he almost comes across in her work as something deformed. And sometimes I see it in index work, but much more delicate, much more mysterious. You know, it still is. There's still beauty. There is still glamour. Is still intelligence.
Speaker And there is also that level they and Abasi, was that level brought on the foreground?
Speaker I sense it indic in the background. But there is that presence of the grotesque.
Speaker He's spoken about that clearly. For him, it was cosmetic. Among other things. The anxiety and performance.
Speaker Let's put our armor to greet the world.
Speaker Yes, very sensitive to.
Speaker All right. Yeah, well, I always think, you know, that, uh, that fashion and cosmetic art are there to give women the the armor, you know, to overcome your shyness. I mean, I've often, uh. Often he's.
Speaker I think that's what didn't make me a model for a long time, because I've often to be the you know, you feel like you're a slave of a vision of a man who says the woman should be the designer to say, my woman should be that simple. I don't know what you think you are.
Speaker You know, I mean.
Speaker But I do think that the clothing and the makeup can be like an armor for for a night. You know, it's it's what you wear to give you to give yourself a little bit of protection so that you have a little shield between you and the reality and that you can also be slightly portrayed of you could be the way you wish to be seen. You know, that's already a definition of yourself.
Speaker And that's, you know, one of the level that you use as a model. You don't discard that and just show your raw soul. So you don't do that. You know, when you do modeling.
Speaker It is also about appearance and allure.
Speaker And so it is also the best of your shield. You know, and you always have to have your own emotion but have dignity. You know, that is very important. I think sometimes when you act that can be brought down, you know, and you can see raw emotion in acting, modeling.
Speaker You know, it's still it's still it's still the industry of the shield.