By John Ardoin
 One of the towering black artists of our time, former Metropolitan Opera soprano Shirley Verrett talked with GREAT PERFORMANCES Online about the problems she faced and about black artists and their accomplishments.
GP: Was your first goal to sing opera?
SV: Not really, although I was put into the opera department at the Juilliard School in New York when I studied there. But because of my religious upbringing, I was not interested in opera. I thought only in terms of concert work. My goal was to be a concert singer like Marian Anderson, and I undertook my first recital tour in 1960, which, incidentally was in the South, just after my graduation.
GP: Was there still an atmosphere of prejudice there?
SV: Yes there was. I remember Maestro Leopold Stokowski wanted to hire me as a soloist with the Houston Symphony at the time, but his Board rejected the idea because I was black. I guess they did not want to see a black face among all the white faces in the orchestra, because, back then, our orchestras were not yet integrated.
GP: But what about the recital tour?
SV: Actually, there were no blatant problems, although my mother was worried about me. She thought I was too outspoken and might get into trouble. But my father said it was a good thing to do, for young blacks would see me and this would give them courage. So, I decided to go. I did insist that I be met at the airport and taken to wherever I would be staying, which, of course, was usually a private home, because, even at that time, not all hotels were open to blacks. I also told the sponsors that I was not there to fight any battles, but that I would not sing before a segregated audience. And they did try to honor my requests. The one thing I do remember was that in certain places there were still water fountains labeled "white" and "black," and my accompanist, who was also black, said to me in one place, "I think I will go and drink some 'white' water!" And he did, but no one said anything.
GP: But you were born in the South -- New Orleans -- weren't you?
SV: Yes, but when I was young my father moved us to California. At that time, the Civil Rights movement was nowhere in sight, and he decided he did not want his children to grow up in the same atmosphere [in which] he had been raised. He didn't want us to feel that because of our color we were somehow inferior and have a chip on our shoulder. It was a very significant moment in my life, but little did we know that we would also have to face prejudice in California. But at least it was not overt. It was more hidden.
GP: Was this also the case after you moved to New York, to go the school there?
SV: It was. For example, if I was by myself, I couldn't get a cab. But if my husband, who is white, would flag one, it always stopped. Then, I particularly remember when we were trying to find a new apartment. We would make an appointment on the phone to look at a place, but when we arrived, and they saw us, suddenly it was no longer available. But these were problems faced by all blacks. On the whole, as a performer, on the whole, I think I have been lucky, for I heard some real horror stories from other of my black colleagues.
GP: What do you think is the role of the artist politically, whatever their race might be?
SV: If I had not been a singer, I possibly would have been out there marching and carrying a placard. But because I was an artist, I tried to make a statement with my dignity and my art. But having said that, I knew my life couldn't be just music. Because of my color, I was representing my race. And I felt the way I could best represent it was to be the best I could be. But a strange thing happens when you are a black performer. Somehow, to many, you are no longer black. People see the artist first. If you are a Bill Cosby or an Oprah Winfrey you are not black -- but you're not white either. It's an odd situation.
GP: Is there such a thing as a "black" sound?
SV: That's a tough question and one I've thought a lot about. Most of the time, I think I can tell a black voice but not always. Look, Janis Joplin definitely had a black voice, but she was white. And, when I first heard Marilyn Horne on records, I thought she was a black singer. The black sound does exist, but it's not as easily recognizable as a Slavic sound or an Italian sound. We are so mixed up in the melting pot that is America, you can't always tell black from white. A great deal depends on what is being sung. If you compare the same spiritual sung by a black and a white singer, there is usually no doubt which one is black. But with a French song or an Italian aria it is much harder to tell.
GP: If we say, for the sake of argument, that there is a black sound, how would you define it?
SV: I don't really know. Is it a question of timbre? Was it the kind of vibrato Miss Anderson had? Was it the fervor in Leontyne Price's singing? I would certainly have to say that it came from the influence the church and its music had on all of us. I guess it is just something you feel without being able to say why.
GP: Isn't it true that black male singers have not had it as easy as black females?
SV: They never did. I think that what held black men back, especially in opera, was the idea that a black man did not belong on a stage singing opposite a white woman. Somehow, a black woman singing with a white man was more acceptable. I remember the director of La Scala telling me that audiences would always accept a black Delilah or Carmen, but never a black Samson or Don José.
GP: But isn't it also true that there has never been a black man superstar of the equal of a Verrett or a Price?
SV: That's true, but couldn't it also be that there were black male singers who didn't even bother to go into the field because of what they knew they would face? And the situation has not changed that much. But just think of the movies and how many great black male stars there are and the success they are having. In fact, the black male is making it in a big way in films and is more dominant than black females. I keep asking myself, "What is going on here? Why is that?"
GP: What do you think is the status of the black artist in the year 2000?
SV: I think there is still a lot to be done. But I cannot lose track of what has been done. I see this better than the younger generation, who were born in a world where everything has already been fought for. But, I also think we have to be very diligent and not become overly complacent. We still find examples of terrible prejudice every day, and we must fight these with every ounce of our strength. What we have won is too precious to take for granted.
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