By John Ardoin

Composer John Corigliano.

GREAT PERFORMANCES turned to America's current leading composer, John Corigliano, to speak of America's first leading composer, Aaron Copland. They were friends, and in this interview Mr. Corigliano speaks of both Copland the man and the musician.

GP: I'm sure you know Leonard Bernstein's famous summing up of Copland: "He's the best we have." Do you agree?

JC: Oh, yes, because I think Copland defined American music as I think of American music. He was the first composer to break with the European tradition and form what we all later built on -- simplicity, directness, and a dismissal of the old romantic view of an artist's role in society. He gave us a musical vocabulary that benefited everyone.

GP: Do you have a problem reconciling the Copland of "Billy the Kid" and a difficult later piece like "Connotations?"

Copland at work.

JC: No, because I think you hear Copland in all of his writing. To me, a composer's way of writing is two-part. First, there is his personal style, which is like a signature. It is something you don't think about. You just do it automatically, and yet, like your signature, a personal style is filled with little details that set one apart. The other aspect of composition is technique. Copland did change his technique, and this happened because, as he put it, "I've used up all my chords." So, to find "new chords" he turned to twelve-tone writing -- not serial, he was never a strict serialist, but twelve-tone. He had reached a point where he felt he could no longer deal with traditional harmony -- vertical sounds with tonal roots. He felt he was tired, repeating himself, and required a new stimulus. By using a twelve-tone technique, he broadened his vocabulary, but he didn't stop sounding like Copland. The chord spacing, the rhythmic gestures, the orchestration of his later work were still pure Copland. Now I, for example, work in many different musical genres, but anyone who knows my music well knows it's all me. The difference between Copland and myself is that he wrote whole works that were either Americana, twelve-tone, or this or that, whereas I might do all of these things and more within a single piece. (An explanation of twelve-tone writing is available at: http://encarta.msn.com/.)

Copland conducting score for the film SOMETHING WILD.

GP: Don't you feel above all he wanted to reach out and communicate with listeners?

JC: Of course, he did. Every composer who is a real composer has that as a goal. It was the viewpoint of the ultra-modernists and the old-fashioned romantics that the composer was someone apart, and the public was there to admire or worship him and functioned more [as] a congregation than an audience.

GP: Where does Copland stand in relationship to Charles Ives, another of America's most influential and acclaimed composers?

JC: Apart from one or two really good pieces, I don't think Ives was a very good composer. I can't believe he really knew what he was doing, and this could be because he had so little opportunities to hear any of his music. He was actually much closer to that old Germanic, romantic vision of the composer as prophet, who speaks when and what he wishes and doesn't care if anyone listens or not. Despite the fact that he was very European in his mentality, Ives has been made into an American institution now, in part because record companies discovered he was easily marketable, especially at the time of America's bicentennial.

GP: What was it like to spend an evening with Copland?

Copland with students.

JC: It was a lot of fun. He had a great sense of humor. He laughed all the time and loved jokes. There was also a child-like -- not childish -- quality about him, and this, too, came through in his music. Without these qualities, I think a composer could turn into a very dour person, who writes boring music with angst-filled phrases. I have learned myself, as you get older you have to fight to keep these good qualities intact, and this you do through laughter and joy. That's how Aaron did it. Which brings us back again to the whole concept of the artist. There are those who think that "funny" does not exist if you are a "serious" creator. This is un-American, and something else Copland fought against. He had to fight because our society has long been dominated by European culture and thought. Look, we still have the NEW YORK TIMES extolling European composers, conductors, and the old idea that Europe is what it is all about. But the fact that Copland kept his innocence is one reason why his pieces are still so fresh.

GP: Do you think they will still have their freshness and wonderment 50 or a 100 years from now?

JC: Sure they will, if we still have orchestras or classical music. Today, the record industry is in big trouble and orchestras are doing anything to survive. Who knows what the future holds? But if classical music is still alive a century from now, I am certain Copland will be alive as well.


Photos, from top to bottom: John Corigliano: BBC. Copland at work: Library of Congress, Music Division. Copland conduction score for SOMETHING WILD: Library of Congress, Music Division. Copland with students: BBC.