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GREAT PERFORMANCES: When did you film "Holo Mai Pele"?
Catherine Tatge: We taped it last summer in Honolulu. We spent three years reconceiving the piece for television and then it was taped in the studio.
GP: Can you talk about the process involved in shortening "Holo Mai Pele" from three hours to just under an hour?
CT: It was quite a long process, partially because, not being from Hawaii, I was not familiar with the traditions and the mythology of the island. Pua and Nalani, the Kanaka'ole sisters, had to teach me the meaning of the work so that I really understood it. It was, in a way, like peeling an onion. Each time I met with them, I learned something else. The challenge was, how do I present this great mythic work to a general public that is not familiar either with Hawaiian culture or mythology? I wanted to respect the beauty of the work and not interrupt it with someone talking, so I decided that instead of having narration throughout the dance, to include transitional elements, which would include some of the imagery related to the dance. And also, because so much of the chanting is such gorgeous poetry, I decided to help the audience understand ... with subtitles. I spent a great deal of time talking about visual images, which were going to be introducing the individual dances. Even though it was being reconceived for television, it had to be THEIR work. The sisters would talk about ferns, and I would go outside and shoot a fern and then find out it was the wrong fern. So it's very specific and meticulous. I really tried to be respectful of what it is we should be watching as an audience.
GP: How close was your collaboration with the Kanaka'ole sisters?
CT: It was an extraordinary one because once they felt that I would respect their work -- and I wasn't coming in as a "New York" director -- they gave me a trust that I felt the responsibility of. Once the collaboration really started, it was amazing. All the energy went to trying to create the most wonderful piece possible. It was thrilling. It was one of the best experiences I've ever had in making a television program.
GP: Why?
CT: It worked on a number of levels because their whole approach to everything is spiritual. It's very tied into respect for the land, with respect for people so that it worked on many levels. For example, before every day of shooting, we would gather the cast and all the crew, including the technicians, and Pua and Nalani would start with a chant from their tradition. Then I would say something from my own faith tradition. It's not something I usually do, but it just felt right for this project, and it brought a kind of fraternity. So it was a different way of working. It started us off respecting that in everything that they do, there is an acknowledgment of what is about to happen. Even the technicians told me they'd never worked on a project in which they felt such a sense that they were making something that really had meaning.
GP: Was it a good experience because of that spiritual connection?
CT: [Pauses] It was rewarding because it was NOT about ego. And that included everyone from the director of photography to the lighting designer -- everyone put aside their egos and everyone was working and trying to come up with ideas on how to make this work. It was a wonderful gift.
GP: How did you first become involved with "Holo Mai Pele"?
CT: I have a background in the arts and before I started my own independent company, I worked on the series DANCE IN AMERICA. I was asked by Carlyn Tani, who is the executive director of Pacific Islanders in Communications, if I would come and work as a consultant to help bring some of the works to national television. A lot of things were being done, but locally, and the national public was not really getting access to the work. That's how I came on. During the process, we set up a mentoring system -- we each had [a] Pacific Islander assistant who wanted to learn from people who had a lot of experience working on dance. The purpose, on another level, was to help train Pacific Islanders so that ultimately they will be able to do their own work for national broadcast.
GP: Is "Holo Mai Pele" an opera or a dance performance?
CT: I would say it's a performance piece. There are so many levels -- it's not just dance. The chanting is an integral part; it's as important as the dance.
GP: Are all the costumes original?
CT: Yes. And what's amazing is that each dancer -- and this is part of the tradition -- has to go out into the forest and collect the leaves and the materials to make her costume! The skirts, for instance, in the scene of the green woman are made from leaves that have been gathered. And before they go into the forest to collect them, they chant a prayer asking permission. The time involved in gathering materials and making these costumes is unbelievable. [Laughs] I could do a whole documentary just on the process of all the work that goes into making them. I think what was so special about this project is that it's a little bit like a Japanese tea ceremony, where you feel like everything is appreciated, everything is thought about, nothing is done in a haphazard way. It's all done with enormous consciousness of what it is that you're doing in terms of how you're affecting nature, and how you're affecting the people around you.
GP: Why do you include actual rehearsal footage?
CT: To me, the experience of the rehearsals felt a lot more intimate than the very formal theatrical presentation. I felt that it was also a way to be able to impart certain important information that I wanted the audience to have and experience: the intimate process of how these dances are constructed. It was so fabulous to be in that space and to watch them work. It was just breathtaking.
GP: Why does the mythological story touch you? And how is it relevant today?
CT: One of my mentors is Bill Moyers. I did a series, THE POWER OF MYTH, for him. And in that process of working, I learned a lot about different myths. What I particularly loved about this myth was that it focuses on a female heroic journey. But while it happens to be a woman's journey, it's really what all of us have to go through in our lives. And that's why I think it's relevant today. Because it's very honest in the sense that it's difficult, it's painful, it's joyous -- it's all of those things.
GP: Why do you think this is the first feature on Pacific performing arts?
CT: People have had a stereotype of Pacific dance as being kind of what you get -- and not putting this down -- in Hollywood. But I certainly had no clue. When I heard this was a hula work, I went, oh -- and immediately thought of Hollywood movies. Then, when I saw this work, I realized that it wasn't at all what I first imagined. I'm hoping this program will open the door for us to see a lot more from the Pacific Islands. The work is so different and so rich, and it's certainly an area for contemporary dancers -- a lot of new vocabulary can be drawn from this rich culture.
GP: Do you think this film has changed your approach as a director?
CT: Well, I think it's a director's dream to collaborate so closely with the artists. That kind of collaboration takes a lot of time, which the Kanaka'ole sisters were willing and ready to give. A lot of artists are so busy that they do not have the time, though you can't blame them. But I would love to do the same kind of collaboration with somebody else. It was a dream.
Interview by writer Gia Kourlas for GREAT PERFORMANCES Online.
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