Ask the experts: Alternative energy

We heard both candidates discuss alternative energy at this week’s presidential debate in Denver.

President Obama said, “we’ve got to look at the energy sources of the future, like wind and solar and biofuels, and make those investments.” The support for alternative energy sources, however, is not universal. Need to Know asked leading experts in energy, the environment and politics to help us better understand the various facets of the renewable energy debate.

Our contributors:

Robert Bryce has had articles appear in dozens of publications ranging from the Wall Street Journal to Counterpunch and Atlantic Monthly to Oklahoma Stripper. His third book, Gusher of Lies: The Dangerous Delusions of “Energy Independence,” was published in 2008. Bryce is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. His most recent book, Power Hungry: The Myths of “Green” Energy, and the Real Fuels of the Future, was published in 2010 by PublicAffairs. He lives in Austin.

 

Paul Gipe has written extensively about renewable energy for both the popular and trade press. He has also lectured widely on wind energy and how to minimize its impact on the environment and the communities of which it is a part. For his efforts, Gipe has received numerous awards. His most recent book, Wind Energy Basics: A Guide to Home- and Community-scale Wind Energy Systems was published by Chelsea Green in May, 2009. In 2004, Gipe served as the acting executive director of the Ontario Sustainable Energy Association where he created, managed, and implemented a provincial campaign for Advanced Renewable Tariffs. The campaign sought to adapt electricity feed laws to the North American market and was instrumental in placing the European concept on the political agenda in Canada and the United States.

Amy Harder reports on energy and the environment for NationalJournal.com and moderates an expert blog on the topic as well. She also covered the selection of a new Supreme Court justice, writing for The Ninth Justice blog. Harder has covered a variety of topics since coming to National Journal Group in May 2008, including foreign policy, national security and political advertising. Prior to her time here, Harder was a staff writer for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. Harder is originally from the other Washington and received a B.A. in journalism with honors from Western Washington University.

How will this presidential election affect the conversation around and support for alternative energy production?

Robert Bryce: There’s a clear difference between Governor Romney and President Obama on energy policy. Governor Romney favors traditional sources. The Obama administration has lavished billions of dollars in subsidies, loan guarantees, and other measures on alternative-energy programs, which have included everything from electric cars (which has resulted in a huge waste of taxpayer dollars) to batteries and wind energy. Governor Romney has said he will eliminate the production tax credit, the 2.2 cents-per-kilowatt-hour subsidy given to wind-energy producers. Obama supports an extension of the PTC.

Furthermore, Governor Romney favors dramatic increases in domestic production of hydrocarbons – coal, oil, and natural gas. Of those, coal is the most controversial. U.S. consumption of coal is falling rapidly, due to lower cost natural gas. But it’s also falling because of regulations being promulgated by the EPA under President Obama. The most important of those is a proposed rule that would prohibit the construction of all new coal-fired generation units. The president says he’s in favor of “clean coal” but it’s not at all clear what that phrase means.

The big issue for the next four years, regardless of who is president, will be the attitude toward U.S. energy exports. The U.S. already exports significant quantities of refined oil products. It’s on the verge of becoming a big exporter of both natural gas and coal.

Paul Gipe: It has made it more inane than ever. The fossil-fuel and nuclear guys have come out of the woodwork and launched a full-on, no-holds-barred propaganda campaign to stop renewables in the U.S. It’s a fight to the death for them. They see what’s happened in Germany where the coal and nuclear utilities are losing their shirts, and they’ll be damned if they want that to happen here. Germany has permanently turned off eight reactors and plans to close the rest by 2022 and still exports electricity to nuclear-powered France. The latest news is that the average wholesale cost of electricity in Germany for the last 12 months has fallen below that of France because of all the wind, solar, and biomass that have come onto the system. So yes, the fossil-fuel and nuclear lobbies know they are in a dying industry and they’re determined to hold on as long as they can.

Amy Harder: During the election itself, the campaign-trail rhetoric will only further polarize the conversation around and the support of alternative energy production. Both candidates are using this topic as a way to differentiate themselves—President Obama is decidedly supporting it while Governor Romney has distanced himself from many of the policies that support alternative energy production.

After the election could be a different story. What story it is depends on who wins. If President Obama wins reelection, then I think the debate around alternative energy production will remain polarized for at least the short-term future as both parties use the issue as a political tool to differentiate one another. If Governor Romney wins, I could see a small opening for the issue to become less polarized—if he advances modest policies, such as research and development, for alternative energy.

How does the U.S. compare in both alternative energy production and use to other developed countries?

RB: The U.S. produces more than twice as much biofuel as any other country. (Brazil is second.) In fact, the U.S. is producing so much corn ethanol that it is exporting significant quantities of that fuel to Brazil. The U.S. is also the biggest producer of wind energy, with nearly twice as much production (121 terawatt-hours last year) as the next biggest producer, China. (Note: China has more installed wind-generation capacity-about 62 gigawatts-than does the U.S., which has 47 gigawatts. However, the U.S. wind capacity is more productive.) Solar energy production is relatively small at 1.8 terawatt-hours per year. In 2011, Germany, the world’s biggest producers of solar-generated electricity, produced 19 terawatt-hours.

In my view, nuclear should be considered an “alternative.” And right now the U.S. is producing nearly twice as much electricity from nuclear as France. Renewable energy gets lots of attention from the Green/Left, but it cannot provide the scale of electricity that the world needs. Nuclear can. Is it a perfect solution to our energy needs? No. But then there is no perfect solution.

PG: Relative to elsewhere, we are not a “developed” country when it comes to renewables. We are a “underdeveloped” or possibly a “developing country”. We lost leadership in renewable energy in the late 1980′s and have never gotten it back. Germany gets 20% of its electricity from renewables today—and only a very small part of that is old hydro. Denmark gets 41% of its electricity from renewables and that’s all from new renewables. Portugal gets up to 50% of its electricity from renewables of which half of that is from wind energy alone. And it does not stop there, Denmark’s goal is 100% of its “energy”—so not just electricity—by 2030 is to come from renewables. Scotland’s goal is 100% of its electricity from renewables by 2020. So, no, the U.S. is not in the same renewable league as “developed” countries.

AH: The United States lags behind most other developed countries when it comes to alternative energy production. This is due to a couple key factors: 1) Congress has not enacted any major policy that would provide a long-term incentive to deploy alternative energy, such as Europe’s cap-and-trade system; or provided massive subsidies to the industry like China has. 2) The U.S. has seen a huge growth in unconventional oil and natural gas resources in recent years, which has taken the attention of both the private sector and Washington’s policymakers away from the alternative energy space. That’s not to say that the attention is completely away from renewable energy, of course. But for example, prior to 2009, natural gas was considered a temporary bridge fuel from coal to renewable energy. Now, given all the vast resources of shale natural gas, it’s viewed more as a permanent, or at least a very long bridge fuel, to renewable energy resources. Many other countries, such as those in the European Union, do not have the shale resources the United States has—or at least they have not discovered any such resources yet.

After the Solyndra debacle, is the concern over the viability of domestic companies producing sources of alternative energy a legitimate one?

RB: The Solyndra mess – and the controversy over federal subsidies and grants for renewable energy start-ups – is only one of several challenges facing domestic renewable companies. The biggest problem they face is low-cost natural gas. Several analysts, as well as billionaire T. Boone Pickens, have said that for wind energy to be economically viable, natural gas prices need to be about $6. The current spot price of gas is about half that sum. Solar energy is about twice as expensive as wind energy to produce, therefore, it needs natural gas prices to be even higher. And yet there’s no reason to believe that natural gas prices will climb to anywhere near $6 for the next several years. The shale revolution has resulted in a glut of natural gas production that will take several years to work out. Add in the flood of cheap photovoltaic panels coming out of China, and solar’s problems are even more obvious.

But keep in mind that the bursting of the renewable-energy bubble is not just happening in the U.S., it’s happening in Europe as well. There, it’s not due to cheap natural gas, but rather to the fact that many countries in the E.U. can simply not afford to continue the heavy subsidies that they have been giving to renewable energy producers.

PG: Not really. The future of the domestic renewable energy industry, just as the future of the coal and the nuclear industry are determined by public policy. If you don’t have the policy, you don’t have the industry. It’s really as simple as that. The American people want renewable energy. They say so repeatedly. However, the political elite in the U.S. are effectively wed to the fossil-fuel and nuclear industry. If the American people ever saw what is going on in Germany where it is the common farmer and the average citizen who are driving the renewable energy revolution for their own profit and the benefit of their communities, Americans would rise and we’d see a revolution here too. Solyndra was simply symptomatic of what ails us here. In my work, I write off any company that goes to the U.S. DOE for a loan. In my line, that’s the kiss of death. Of course, Solyndra didn’t ask me for my opinion.

AH: In a perfect world, everyone would take the Solyndra debacle for what it was: A bad investment that’s not reflective of the rest of the renewable-energy industry. Looking through that lens, Solyndra should not cause concern over the viability of domestic companies producing sources of alternative energy. Specific aspects of Solyndra make it an outlier, not an example, of most of the rest of the renewable-energy industry. Of course, we’re not in a perfect world and Solyndra has rattled the investment world because of how politicized the bankrupt manufacturer has made discussion on Capitol Hill of all renewable energy. Looking through that lens, investors are concerned that federal support for alternative energy production is waning and, therefore, companies’ ability to get the necessary capital to build out more alternative energy projects.

Where should the government be investing in terms of renewable or alternative energy sources, and how should the government determine which sectors to subsidize?

RB: In my view, all energy subsidies should be eliminated to make all forms of energy compete, fair field, no favor. I’m not holding my breath for that to happen. Nevertheless, government’s primary role in the energy sector should be focused not on picking winners with subsidies, but on research and development. Earlier this year, the Breakthrough Institute released a report that called on the Federal Government to reform energy subsidies and instead focus on energy-focused R&D. That is the right approach. The National Institutes of Health spends about $30 billion per year on health-related R&D. Federal support for energy-focused R&D is about $5 billion. Given the vast scale of America’s energy consumption, that’s a small amount of money.

PG: I believe a question such as this illustrates how out-of-touch we have become to what is happening elsewhere in the world. I don’t want the government (local, state, or federal) “investing” in renewable energy. That’s a recipe for disaster. (See Solyndra above and I’ve written about many more.) We, the people, must demand that our political leaders implement policy that allows us to build, own, and operate our own renewable energy power plants—ourselves. We don’t need the “government”, or Florida Power & Light, or pick any other utility to build or invest in renewable energy. We can do it ourselves. This is what really scares the status quo: the renewable energy revolution takes control out of the hands of existing companies and puts in the hands of citizens—from rich to poor. 51% of all the renewable energy built in Germany—and there’s more there than anywhere—is owned by its own citizens, more than 100 billion dollars worth. I’d like to see Americans get the chance to do that.

AH: This is a subjective question and depends much on what role you think the government should have in energy production. Despite the politicization of renewable energy, most Democrats and most Republicans do agree that government should provide basic research and development for alternative energy and advanced technologies for more established energy resources like fossil fuels. In recent years, more Republicans have taken the position that the government should have no more role than that, which includes not providing tax subsidies to renewable-energy resources like wind and solar. Many Democrats, on the other hand, have maintained that government still fills a key role in propping up energy resources whose technology is proven but is still not proven commercially. This support can be done through tax subsidies and loan guarantees, for example. The gap between technologically proven and commercially available technology is known as the “valley of death.”

Politicians from both parties talk a lot about not picking winners and losers and “leveling the playing field.” The problem with that framework is that the players are starting at different points in the game and will never really be at the same point in their technology development. Thus, it’s comparing apples to oranges. The oil industry has been receiving certain subsidies and permanent tax breaks for the better part of the last century, whereas renewable energy has received most of the new government subsidies in recent years.

 
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Comments

  • jayson yttri

    I think the cities and towns across across america should consider building large scale methane digesters to power the electrical grid. There is plenty of human and animal waste around, and it would keep most of it out of our lakes, streams and rivers.”Clean coal” is a joke and is destructive to the environment. The process of chemical fracking is also ridiculous, poisining the water for all species to drink on earth. America and the rest of the industrialized world needs to mandate a conscience. I am a father and I wonder what kind of world my daughter is going to inherit when she is all grown up.

  • Bob

    That guy who had a job with Vesta for 3 years and was laid off because the Republicans are attacking wind energy subsidies said he would vote for Romney.

    Good lord, he’s going to be unemployed the rest of his life.

    I’d like to see in tens years if I’m right.

  • Michael

    Shame on PBS for including fossil fuel industry shill Robert Bryce in this interview.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57zyh7sc9VA

  • Mubomo

    Wind farms are the kiss of death. Not only for birds and bats, but for countries that depend on them to run their power grids. That unpredictable energy is not even power. Lean on it at your peril.

  • Anonymous

    I’m pleasantly surprised that this a fair article. Obama may lose this election because he poured billions down the drain building mega factories for wind mills, solar and electric, which most have folded. But I refuse to pay more for energy produced by “alternative sources” if oil, gas coal and nuclear are cheaper. Let me mention one energy source. Solar cells. I have two calculators that don’t need batteries. They run on solar cells. That energy exists, in very small volts.
    If a private produer of any source can create, in a lab a solar cell that can be made cheaper and produce power cheaper, then current sources, I would embrace them. The company would make billions in profits and I would save thousands. That’s America. But if they can’ produce it, Obama can’t.
    Let the private companies determine if there a need. They may find a small market, which would be profitable in a poor country, but would never be accepted in the United States. Gas, oil, coal and nuclear are here for a long time. Global warming will never be a factor, no matter how hard it’s pushed.

  • CRandallB

    as usual, the argument against wind power is false. NO ONE is advocating the sole use of wind power…use of ALL alternative energy systems is the answer and they include, low-head hydropower, wind power, solar power, geothermal power, tidal power, recovered waste heat energy through hot-air vertical turbines and redistribution of recovered waste heat energy from manufacturing.. Here is a very interesting map of how much land use it would take to supply ALL electrical power for the entire world with solar energy: http://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/127

    Do not hurt your eyes squinting at the tiny amount of land surface required. And, no, I am NOT advocating sole dependence on solar energy…and neither is anyone else. The ONLY way we are going to survive fossil fuels is for people to STOP creating these fantasy arguments opposing alternative energy sources and uses.