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A contentious curriculum

Did the state of Arizona do the right thing by stopping the Mexican-American studies program?

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  • CBNY

    When I, a New Yorker, spent three winters at Bosque del Apache NWR in New Mexico, I learned a completely different aspect of colonial American history. It wasn’t pilgrims at Plymouth Rock, but the Spanish on the Camino Real del Tierra Adentro. NM wasn’t a state until 1912. Yet we have very narrowly focused and standardized versions of history.
    The Columbia Professor is absolutely correct in that all aspects of American history should be taught to everyone.
    Arizona Attorney General Horn is himself evidence that this is still a racist country.

  • Jim Del Balso

    In Arizona, in particular, Mexican studies are part of their heritage and history. To deny that, the Attorney General is showing his racism and ignorance. The statistics show that this program has been beneficial to the hispanic students and their progress in the school system. Close minded politicians breed instability and contempt, and lead to insurrection.

  • jack

    The commentator on ‘Need To Know’ is Hispanic but speaks with an American standard accent – but why does he say any Hispanic name with such a totally Hispanic accent? Should Chinese, Vietnamese, Polish, Lebanese, Indian, descendants all pronounce their name, and others, in the accent of the nation of origin?
    My wife’s family came from Russia, they use the American pronunciation for their name – why do the Hispanics have to hold on to their ethnicity so completely – are they not Americans?

  • GP

    Keep the Mexican/American studies, but across the board, in every school and in a fashion that is ALL inclusive to every student as a part of the history program. The good and the bad, the pretty and the ugly, told as it actually was, but as information of facts, to use to GROW from, through an understanding of ALL ethnic backgrounds. In order for our students to KNOW who they are, where they came from, and where, now, shall they CHOOSE to go forward in life, and make their own history better, for themselves and EVERYONE around them.

  • Gary L. Gordon

    This country needs to celebrate our diversity. By ending this program, they are removing an integral part of our culture! Shame on you Republicans!

  • Stephen B.

    Just read A Peoples History of The United States 1492-present by Howard Zinn and you will understand that what we were taught in grade school was not as neat and clean as they would have us believe. Old chris columbus was not a hero, and it goes downhill from there,or better yet ask an American Indian how great us white folk are,or African American or Irish American etc,etc,etc

  • Missy

    Perhaps it’s the same reason why you’d rather not have your name pronounced as Jake or why I wouldn’t want my name to be pronounced as Micey. Words can be pronounced lots of ways because vowel sounds can be pronounced lots of ways. I think if you want your name to be pronounced based on your cultural heritage, by all means pronounce it that way. The English language historically has changed as well. We certainly don’t sound like we did centuries ago. And many native English speaking folks in the U.S. use different dialects of English. Language changes and culture/geography influences it. Why do we fight such a natural thing? And why would accents be an indication that you’re not American or that you’re anti-American??

  • Del Pilar

    History is written in the eyes of the victor! The State of Arizona is scared of the fact that they (mostly white population in power) will soon be the minority. Unless they have a way to assimilate the Latino population to there way of thinking they are SCARED how Latinos will see how the segment of the population in Arizona has and continue to selectively discriminate against them.

  • Missy

    I’m surprised that the R Attorney General, Tom Horn, doesn’t provide any examples of how the Mexican-American studies program is anti-American or racist. He just states it like it’s a generalizable fact, adding that many would be surprised just how racist the program is. I’m really interested in hearing how the course materials and teachers indoctrinated students to hate anyone that’s not latino, as he argues but does not support. He’s never attended a class and bases his information on a handful of teachers at a single school. Even if there is content in literature used in the courses that he is not comfortable with, who is he to know how the class took up such content? Later, he says that the evidence in favor of the class is anecdotal and could be considered “fallacies of small sampling techniques,” yet he bases his argument against the program on the testimony of just a handful of teachers? Is that not small sampling?!

    Two other issues that Mr. Horn and his supporters should work at understanding:



  • Douglas Wiken

    Why do Hispanics demand Hispanic studies when we have integrated millions of other races and cultures without pandering to their version of culture and history?

    I have listened to Hispanics here in South Dakota blowing the horn for having total immersion in Spanish courses for English-speaking students and how wonderful that works.. On the other hand, seems that they are automatically getting a total immersion in English language and culture, but that apparently causes them to drop out of school.

    The federal government failure to prevent an invasion of illegal aliens dumps a huge unfunded mandate on schools, hospitals, and the state and county social welfare systems. We don’t need immigration reform, we need deportation reform.

    What is the special problem with Hispanic culture that PBS seems to think they need to spend an inordinate amount of time and broadcasting promoting mindless diversity?

  • Anonymous

    This week’s “Need To Know” amazed me. I am 70, a Veteran, retired from a major railroad and live in Idaho after living most of my working life in Omaha, Nebraska. I have traveled and visited many countries and cultures around the world.
    I was raised in Southern Idaho, graduated with a BA in Sociology in 1971. Moved to Omaha, and for the first time in my life experienced cultures other than my narrow Anglo upbringing. What a wonderful experience to be immersed in a variety of cultures. Native American, Polish, Chez, Swedish, German, etc. The opportunity to celebrate the diversity of Our America!!! “Growing UP” I wish I had been exposed to all of those wonderful customs, and then there is the FOOD! To say to the Public Schools of Tucson, “NO MORE Mexican – American Studies”! I wish I could have had the opportunity to learn about other cultures in High School! There is every reason to value and understand DIVERSITY! Knowledge fosters understanding. Which leaded to acceptance, respect and value. BROTHERLY LOVE. What is wrong with the Attorney General of Arizona?

  • Naomi

    It would be unnecessary to have separate ethnic studies if our history classes were more factual and told the complete and factual truth regarding all peoples, including the treatment of native Americans, Chinese, Japanese, etc.

  • Bob S.

    It seems to me that this reminds me of forcing Native Americans into boarding schools around the country so that we Americans could be more comfortable with those who are “different.” What a disgrace.

  • SBMT

    It is absurd to take American taxpayer government money to teach racist anti American propaganda. In our home state of Montana, we learned about Latino History without the Arizona-Mexican American studies program, just like any student in American schools, that apply themselves, pay attention and do not wallow in racist self pity.
    Lets live in present day America and work for good progression of the country instead of the endless reiteration of the past to divide and destroy this country.

  • Pat Mail

    Americans need to know about the complex ethnic contributions of all the races that make up the US, beginning with our first people, the Native Americans. The Mexican, Asian, Black, and other cultures need to be a part of any curriculum.

  • American

    sounds to me like there is a lot of anger in some of these comments here, a lot of talk of racists and how you are being held down, well if you keep talking that way you will ,so people this is America and we are all Americans, not this oh poor little old me stuff

  • UWT student

    The institution of education focuses on the master narrative of the dominant group which perpetuates the underlying racism people of color experience on a daily basis in the form of micro-aggressions. I can attest to this experience as a person of color. I agree “A Peoples History” should not only be read but taught in our school systems and that ALL children should learn about diversity as part of their curriculum. Also there are a number of excellent documentaries such as “Race: power of an illusion” series, “Traces of the Trade”, and “Reel Injun” among others.

  • K

    It seemed that the professor who gave comments after was completely disconnected from the struggle in Tucson. He gave intellectual arguments about Ethnic Studies, rather than putting his support behind the tragic disparity between data about student success and Tom Horne’s agenda.

  • lenca

    In order to learn from our history, we must know all of our history, the good, and the bad. If we only look at what makes us feel good about our history, then we loose the opportunity to continue to grow as a society and as a leader in the world. We must know our dark history in order to prevent it from repeating in our society.

  • K

    Not behind the disparity but behind the movement*

  • Veronica Ibarra

    I learned about all this popular heroes that found the Nation (Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, etc. ) and so what! the principles where the country was founded are not longer followed, it makes no difference if they teach ethnic studies at high school or not, at the end of the day the country keeps going downhill and when my brother from Mexico came with a scholarship to do a Ph. D. in advanced Mathematics, Stanford university, UCSD or UT did not asked him about his ethnic studies in high school, the school system in general in the USA elementary/secondary school system lacks quality in many aspects and areas compare to the rest of the world, and for the money they put on the classroom the return is a very poor “dividends”, look at the Universities post Graduates students 3 out of 5 came from other countries! I now live in a Suburb of Washington D.C. where the county proudly believe they have one of the best programs in the U.S. and when I compare what a high school student learns compare to what I learned 20+ years ago in my home country I laugh and see how the system perpetuates the low quality and low critical thinking of the teens, no wonder 60,000 visas is not enough to give to students and professionals of other countries to come and get the best part of the “pie”, READ the new book from the Michelle Rhee “Radical” (American children are well outside the top-ten international student rankings in reading, science, and math)…….

  • Susan Page

    I’m sure the students and teachers promoting the anti-government rhetoric do not appreciate the irony of the situation — if this is such a racist and terrible place, why are people risking their laws and breaking laws to live here?

  • Marg B.

    I am a retired English teacher and curiculum specialist who loves British literature, but at an independent school in Los Angeles, I developed and taught a multi-cultural English elective several semesters. Every student who took it learned — critical reading, the problems and strenghts of America’s ethnic groups, composition skills, and much more. We all loved it! We need to teach a much broader canon to ALL Amercan students than we taught to earlier generations! The problem, I suppose, is how to fit it all in, but that is a problem we should be intelligent enough to surmount.

  • DHDowney

    Now I’m probably a LOT older than you, but having grown up in California my middle school gave quite a bit of history of the Spanish move from Mexico and the establishment of the mission system and the spanish land grants. We also studied the Russian influence that occurred north of San Francisco.

  • Chuck Wigo

    Victimization studies and making a case for Class warfare do not belong in public education. Laraza and the give the southwest back to Mexico croud are in the extreme classic treason-is positions. Voicing this type of thought is not illegal and is protected under the first amendment but giving it the exulted status of a taxpayer supported public school class is not acceptable.

    Irish Americans were called Black Irish Poles were the but of every imaginable stupid act. Italians were all Mafiosi when they were new immigrants. German American towns in New Jersey were burned down with a wink from Woodrow Wilson and of course the Japanese Americans were put into concentration camps under Roosevelt.

    None of these things is or was fair. That Arizona is drowning in illegal immigrants who are overwhelming the government is not fair for the citizens who built the state.

    Columbus being blamed for the death of 70 percent of the Indians in Mexico is ridiculous. Germ theory did not exist until over 200 years after Columbus and is any specific institution is to blame for the hardship of the Mexican Indians it must be the Catholic Church.

    In Spain the records are clear that they could not get colonists to stay in what is now the Southwest US. Hurricanes and the Giant Indian Warier s chased them back home.

  • DHDowney

    History does not exist in a vacuum. You cannot speak of the journey of African-Americans or HIspanics without knowing of the journey of the Irish, Germans, Italians… pick your nationality.
    You can never understand history without understanding the times and the mores of those times. You need perspective to make sense if it all, and you’ll never get that in a “Survey” class in grade school or even high school.

  • Lets be real…

    Sure, but the method by which you teach the reality of this country’s history can have massively different results.

  • Veronica Ibarra

    Because South of the Border, the infamous president of Mexico that now teaches at Harvard! there were about 60000 people killed! in only 6 years!! as consequence of Drug Cartels war establish by the far right Government that promised CHANGE (where I have heard that word) and promised to bring Mexico to the 1st world since 2000!, with 0 opportunities in Mexico they rather try crossing the border and die in the chance than letting their families starve or die by made in the U.S.A. guns and facilitated by US Government (Erik Holder “fast and furious” anyone) and also because some Jobs in Arizona, CA, NA, NM, TX and the rest of the USA for that matter are to “low paying” or low quality for the “citizens” to do (have you seen who clean houses, landscaping, car washing, farm fruits and vegetable, and the list goes on and on and on……)

  • Lets be real…

    There’s a different way to do it than the way it’s been done. This issue has been going on for quite a while with this class. Our cultures ( no matter which cultures they might be ) need to be taught in their entirety. But the way by which this is done can DIVIDE or UNITE us as a people. There can be so much ignorance and lack of communication in a situation like this, ON BOTH SIDES. It’s important for us to remember that we are all one people, no matter what we want to say.

  • Veronica Ibarra

    The Spanish never move from Mexico, CA was in Mexico way before the Spanish invaded Mexico, and the missions were establish to implant the Catholic customs and disappear the indigenous ones that for centuries were already there………..someone was right about the comment “history is written by the victors”…………..

  • Lets be real…

    This is fantastic, and actually makes sense!

  • Lets be real…

    I’m down for diversity as well. I’ve grown up in a HIGHLY diverse environment and I’m thankful for it. But I’ve seen this kind of teaching be abused to foster someone’s own PERSONAL agenda under the guise of “diversity”. I think diversity should be taught. But how it’s taught can have massively different results.

  • Lets be real…

    If I constantly remind you I’m “WHITE”, wouldn’t it seem racist? Or shallow? I think learning, and celebrating, our cultures is awesome. But I’m a human being. My “race” really shouldn’t come into it… “Being judged on the content of their character, not the color of their skin”. That’s what Martin Luther King said.

    Racism should be addressed. It should be eliminated from our society. But that won’t happen by us re-addressing what race we are constantly. We should identify ourselves with our humanity, and the fact that we’re American. We should work together to fix our problems, no matter what race we are.

  • DHDowney

    Hernan Cortes moved on Mexico around 1520 and destroyed the Aztec nation. Junipero Serra established the mission system by 1760.. Tell me more… Are you sure that you jnoe your history?

  • Roy Moreland

    Ever notice, only white people and Republicans are racist. No one belonging to any other race or culture has ever oppressed anyone. If we just got rid of all those dirty white Republicans we would be living in a utopia. Thank you PBS for taking the time to make us all think correctly. You truly are a bastion of journalistic integrity, and objectivity. I especially enjoy how you always present liberal and conservative views equally and fairly. I don’t care what people say. I think you absolutely deserve to be funded with tax dollars for your Solomon like impartiality. PBS is the voice of America. I think that we should just abolish the statehood of the rest of the country and let New Yorkers and Californians make our decisions for us, because, let’s face it. You guys are just so much more evolved and enlightened than the rest of us.

  • Milt

    “The Spanish never move from Mexico, CA was in Mexico way before the Spanish invaded Mexico.” So I take it you subscribe to the Aztlan myth, which would be your right. But that doesn’t make it right to supplant American History and English courses. A good teacher should find a way to incorporate historical and literary elements that drawl on these different perspectives.

    From the history I learned of the Native Americans who helped build the Carmel Mission were I went to grade school, they did not see themselves as part of Mexico or Aztlan. Perhaps the nuns got it wrong.

    And just try to tell the Apache of Southern Arizona that they are Mexican.

    Let’s not forget Texas, that was so much a part of Mexico that the Mexican government opened it up to Anglos to help subdue the native peoples. Perhaps those native peoples forgot they were also Mexicans long before the Spanish came.

    “Viva La Raza” I just don’t see that as a rally cry that brings people to a better understanding one another.

  • Milt

    You argument regarding the 60,000 deaths may apply to the last decade, but about the decades before that.

    I’m also tired of the argument that illegal immigrant workers do the jobs that “citizens” won’t do. I cleaned toilets in public restrooms back in 1980-82 each summer and I started my own landscaping business when I was 16 back in 1978. My own son would have a hard time doing the same now as he wouldn’t be able to compete with the pickups full of illegal immigrant workers. Personally, I see this as a problem. You likely do not.

  • Milt

    Perhaps you misunderstood my post, or I misunderstood your reply. I am well aware of both Cortes and J.S. My point was simply that, contrary to Ms. Ibarra’s reply to your post about Spanish history, native peoples did not then and do not now see
    themselves as having been part of Mexico or Aztlan.

  • Alan Strouse

    Tom Horne is completely correct in assessing MAS as a racist curriculum. La Rasa and other mexican supremist groups are shrewd in twisting this around to delude foolish “band-wagon” liberals into believing Tom is the racist and not them. This is PRECISELY why MAS was/is so subversive. Just last week I shopped at a largely latino store. A latina was taking the whole eisle and I politely said “excuse me please”. This crazy, arrogant witch said “No! This is MY store, OUR store, and we will own all of this country soon!” This is what parents like her are teaching their kids. We don’t need our schools echoing it.

  • WP 65

    I am Afro American and grew up in a state that fostered and cherished it’s history of command slavery. The Arizona issue is highlighted in a fashion that demonstrates the continued efforts to limit the knowledge of people of color. There was little or no Black History taught when I attended an all white high school in the early days of desegration in my small town. I suspect that history classes today still don’t demonstrate the importance of what Black and Latinos contributed to the growth and development of the USA. The Attorney General Horne has a limited view of what education really is for the young people in this country. He still see this country as it was when he was a young person,where anyone that does not look like him is inferior and should be not have a voice in the society.

  • Missy

    I agree that we should work together to fix problems regardless of our race. But I don’t think that will happen by ignoring race. This falsely assumes that race doesn’t play a big part in everything; any study on race or socioeconomic status will attest that it does. MLK’s argument is ideal and I look forward to the historical moment where this theory is actually in practice. But it would be naive to assume (at least currently in this country) that character and certain characteristics are not also attached to race and racial stereotypes. If you can’t imagine how this might be true, consider reading “White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Backpack” at

    Our races and colors of our skin carry with them long-held assumptions, whether folks are conscious of them or not. Perhaps addressing racial issues and tensions head on will help us break them down and improve things, rather than ignoring them as you seem to suggest we do.

  • Missy

    I think you make many good points and we seem to agree that it’s ideal to for citizens of the U.S. to be united and equal. As I indicated in a previous response to you, though, we have to be thinking about what’s ideal versus what’s actually happening. If what’s ideal (equality for all) is not happening across the board, simply wanting to be ideal and saying that we’ll try to be “one people,” will not change the fact that inequalities exist. Instead, we need to do as you suggest and make sure communication happens on both sides. We need to figure out what are the material and ideological constraints that prevent everyone from having equal advantages. And we do this in part by learning about and being critical of the current systems which maintain social hierarchies, precisely what a class like MAS worked to do. It’s not about Latinos united against Whites, it’s about Latinos united together as Latinos to address their own social situation based on their cultural and racial experiences. While some might argue that the course instead tries to divide people and races, there has not been any evidence that actually supports this.

  • M Richardson

    If American were taught correctly and inclusively, special programs like this one would be unnecessary. Students need to know the contributions of all races, creeds and political forces that have contributed to what we are today. They also need to learn the transgressions against democratic forces in this country and beyond, where we have overstepped our boundaries and brought suffering to others.
    In Arizona and other southwestern states, let us remember, it is only through the violence of the Mexican war, that these states are no longer a part of the Mexican nation.





  • Penny Boeckelman

    So agree. Everyone should read Howard Zinn’s book. I could not put it down. All my missing or guestions about the history I was taught, were answered. Informative &should be required reading.

  • Thunderbolt

    There shouldn’t be enough Mexicans in Arizona to need a Mexican American studies program. Border enforcement would have taken care of this subject.

  • Veronica Ibarra

    Well, The name Mexico probably was not explained to you in grade school, the name came from the Nahuatl and was only one tribe (Aztec) no the whole Nation!, The Spanish that came to conquer, they Name the whole place Mexico, because it was the Empire in the Central part of the country that put more resistance in “Conquista” get to read Bernal Diaz del Castillo “Historia Verdadera de La conquista de la Nueva Espana” that by the Way it was not by Bernal, but by his Son who used the name of his Father and also try to get directly from Cortez the Manuscripts the The Spanish Crown forbid him to publish……………………………..

  • @KaylaWildflower

    Tom Horne (@tomhorneaz) is a total hypocrite. His father imbued in him the critical importance of studying history, which allowed him to escape just before Holocaust killed his father’s entire family. In this video he elaborates on importance of education, studying history, & the cultural advantage of the Jewish emphasis on education. If Mexican culture has not emphasized education as much, but Mexican-American Studies increases test scores by 65% & graduation rates by 51%, I’d say it goes a long way toward inspiring educational excitement among Mexican-Americans. Meanwhile, while on Need to Know he insists racial identity is not important, it’s about being American, in this video he mentions belonging to the same temple for 37 years & serving as its president. Guess he doesn’t get that looking like a white guy has its privileges.

  • Veronica Ibarra

    This is how much history you know? The Aztec Nation was not destroyed, that would be a word I would use for the native american tribes, Hernan Cortez could not conquer on his first try to get into the city, he created alliances with other tribes that were slaved by the Aztecs, Destroyed a Nation would mean nothing was left from them, and the Actual Mexican -real Mexican- food and customes that are still alive since the Missions were not able to implements a Spanish way of life- comprende MESTIZAJE!

  • Veronica Ibarra

    Mexico was only in Central Nueva Esppanawhere the Aztec culture flourish, that had nothing to do with the name of the Regions in the north where northern tribes (Yaqui, Terahumara, etc, etc) called their territories something else………..

  • Michelle

    I’m a several generations Mexican-American, liberal, democrat who supports Comprehensive Immigration Reform and am a member for the Justice for Farmworker Campaign in New York state working to help pass a farmworker bill that will give NYS farmworkers workers rights and guaranteed protections under the law., and I support Mr. Strouse. I grew up in San Antonio, Texas and attended public schools as a proud American. Mexican American history was not taught in our schools that I can recall, but looking back I think it would have been a good thing. However, all this said, anything that is taught to students in schools has to be done so responsibly and not in a subversive manner. I was taught by my parents to appreciate education; attending school was not an option. I was taught that the opportunities were out there if I worked and studied hard, no excuses, no playing the victim. We were/are proud Americans who love this country. Students learn from their teachers and Mexican-American teachers, in this case, have to have a balanced, fair, objective and healthy approach when they teach Mex-Amer students about their culture and history, particularly as it relates to the U.S. If teaching a Mex-American studies helps Mex-Amer students excel in their studies and keep them in school and inspire and empower them to advocate for themselves when necessary, then I support this. BUT, I will not support students or teachers who approach the curriculum from a machismo or combative attitude or perspective. We are one nation and anything that divides (people and actions on both sides of the fence), I will not support. Let both sides be heard and let the MA studies be taught in a peaceful and non-violent manner. Teach fairly and with objectivity to allow the students to THINK. The first thing I would ask the Mex-Amer students and parents is do you like living in the U.S. Do you consider yourself an American or do you have one foot here and one foot elsewhere. You can do both, and if that’s the case, love both countries equally and with pride.

    America is what it is. The war with Mexico is over. The U.S. does not owe you anything. I would urge you to knock the chip off your shoulder and do what you need to do to make a good life for you in whichever country you choose to live. Delores Huerta was wrong in saying Republicans hate Mexican-Americans. Totally out of line. That was not responsible and I’m disappointed she said that. We don’t need hotheads teaching our children, we need rational, intelligent clear thinking and fair minded teachers guiding them and teaching them how to function in society with the right academic and emotional tools.

  • Veronica Ibarra

    no the last decade, may be if you get the news from cnn, msnbc and the likes, 60000 and counting since 2006! and the number is still growing even with the new President Pena Nieto. If you are so tired of the work that guest workers do every year to get the Tomatoes, Avocados, onions, oranges, etc, etc in CA why not completely suspend the program and find those workers in the US ?

    is easy to say that your son would not be able to compete, but have some of his generation population do the Guest worker Program that has been since the 1930′s.

    The problem I see is that your Son’s Generations grew up in a Fantasy World, but the reality is that the Education System here has been decimated between the Gov. and Big corporations, there is no doubt that the opportunities are there for those who take advantage (meaning: keep the kids away from silly video games, junk food, Hollywood and drugs) will have a decent future living in the country, but as a whole the education system has been a failure in the last 30 years, and the current Boomer Generation will be the one that executes ” the last straw ” since they will collect all due Benefits that are not possible to pay under the current system of tax collection.
    I see more as a problem having growth the National Debt in the trillions! in just 4 years…………..that is a problem for You, your Son, your Grandchildren and subsequent generations……

  • Veronica Ibarra

    Well, may not be a perfect Democracy, but is a Republic with a constitution that practices Democracy, is the USA Democratic? electoral votes, popular vote……….and to you point there is 1.6 Million Americans that are retired south of the Border( Visit Chapala, Jalisco; San Miguel the Allende, Guanajuato; La Paz Baja California) may be the weather? they do not seem to be bother by the corruption or the killings!, they are actually living the American Dream since the USA has become so expensive for Seniors that south of the Border the Dollar really stretches its Value……………………..and I do not think is BIAS against a specific ethnicity, look at congress trying to reach out to minorities because their expectations were miscalculated after the last election cycle, interesting will be to see if they succeed, Arizona is late to the game, the number of latinos turning 18 and able to vote is worrying a lot of people here in the Mid-Atlantic……

  • Veronica Ibarra

    American Taxpayer government money? from where? from the printing presses of the FED? billions are giving to countries, where they not only do not like us, they hate us, just look Northern Africa! that is the Present America, where Billions are wasted on rescue Bankers!. Good Progression is not in the best interest of the Government or the Big Corporations, here inside the Beltway, huge corporations do not care that the latest supersonic jet fighter went up to few more billions than estimated to be developed, as long as the contractor company gets the check from the Gov and some one from the Gov retires and uses the revolving door to come back and get American Taxpayer government money wasted!………………….this is why is so important to make high School kids from Arizona have a critical thinking so one day they can demand answers from this crazy spending going on around Washington DC……….. and not allowed what has happened here since 2001…………………..

  • Jim Gatt

    Im an AMERICAN not an Italian american whitch i should have to exsplain or matter just as dont have the italin flags everywhere some of my family ppl could think are hispanic there should be no mexican american program just as there should be no african american study or kkk study because they draw on the differnces when this is sapose to be a melting potfor example ppl lable all white”ish” ppl together when its acually made up of many ethnics “Irish,russian, norwegin Italian Ect” if seperated would be the real minority just as we for the most part speake the same langage rather than 10 to 15 diff to n not only bring us all togather with more simularitys than diff not to mention the cost to print evrything as shown with spanish. why were at it you can be aginst “Illegal Imagration” without being raciest I live here in arizona with the mojority of my friends being hispanic who of the ones who came here legally complain more than anyone else cuz they came in legally which has never ben easy or fairfo example a family spending month on a ship ust to be seperated because one family member diagnose with an illness and not allowed in and the family having to chose to get sent back with or trying to stuggle on without the mother or father ect…

  • Jim Gatt

    Im am an Italian american whitch i should have to exsplain or matter just as dont have the italin flags everywhere some of my family ppl could think are hispanic there should be no mexican american program just as there should be no african american study or kkk study because they draw on the differnces when this is sapose to be a melting potfor example ppl lable all white”ish” ppl together when its acually made up of many ethnics “Irish,russian, norwegin Italian Ect” if seperated would be the real minority just as we for the most part speake the same langage rather than 10 to 15 diff to n not only bring us all togather with more simularitys than diff not to mention the cost to print evrything as shown with spanish. why were at it you can be aginst “Illegal Imagration” without being raciest I live here in arizona with the mojority of my friends being hispanic who of the ones who came here legally complain more than anyone else cuz they came in legally which has never ben easy or fairfo example a family spending month on a ship ust to be seperated because one family member diagnose with an illness and not allowed in and the family having to chose to get sent back with or trying to stuggle on without the mother or father ect…

  • Jim Gatt

    As an AMERICAN not an Italian american whitch i should have to exsplain or matter just as dont have the italin flags everywhere some of my family ppl could think are hispanic there should be no mexican american program just as there should be no african american study or kkk study because they draw on the differnces when this is sapose to be a melting potfor example ppl lable all white”ish” ppl together when its acually made up of many ethnics “Irish,russian, norwegin Italian Ect” if seperated would be the real minority just as we for the most part speake the same langage rather than 10 to 15 diff to n not only bring us all togather with more simularitys than diff not to mention the cost to print evrything as shown with spanish. why were at it you can be aginst “Illegal Imagration” without being raciest I live here in arizona with the mojority of my friends being hispanic who of the ones who came here legally complain more than anyone else cuz they came in legally which has never ben easy or fairfo example a family spending month on a ship ust to be seperated because one family member diagnose with an illness and not allowed in and the family having to chose to get sent back with or trying to stuggle on without the mother or father ect…

  • NBLK032

    Veronica, your response has nothing to do with what SBMT had originally said. Yes, Washington DC has spending problems and taxpayer money definitely goes to things that maybe it should not, but those things have nothing to do with Arizona’s taxpayer money going to educational programs that teach division and blindly influence politics. It’s important to have critical thinking, like you said, but there’s a difference between critical thinking that questions political powers regardless of race and political party and critical thinking that teaches to fight against anything republican and white.

  • rsealy

    How absurd to deny students the right to have any sort of learning experience! What could be the only reason not to allow this sort of study – uh, racism and making every attempt to keep down the Mexican sense of being. I certainly agree with the professor that a much broader and more inclusive look at what really makes up American history is needed for all American students. And, really, if students really want a course to be taught, why would a legislature insist that it not be taught? Again, I think we have to fall back on fear and fascist thinking. It is such a shame the Arizona has become such a focal point of hatred in this country. I’m an ancient southerner; I was around in the early 50s before the Civil Rights movement began. I know about separatism and fear of the other and hatred and dismissal of those not like the ones in power. It was despicable then in the way African Americans were treated in my home town and state then (Beaumont, TX and Shreveport, LA) and it’s equally despicable now in the way the white power structure of AZ is treating Mexican Americans now. That jackass of a Attorney General makes it very clear that racism exists in this country now. So did the discussions in my present state of AR of the prospects of having a black president. To fool oneself into thinking that America is no longer a racist society is to hide from the truth.
    These ethnic courses should be allowed and students deserve to have the classes that they want and that allow them to grow. What else is education for? Oh, and used to be a high school teacher and I am now a college instructor. I kind of know about these education issues.

  • Red Silver

    Being a Yankee married to an American Mexican , it was a battle within my own home but the simple truth is that they are here to benefit what this country has to offer from her parents choice and I have made it clear that the kids are to learn the history of this country prior to learning the history of the world. A lot of these other countries have a longer history then America does but it seems they may not have had their 60′s movement and it seems that they are trying to provoke it again. After spending time in the valley in southern Texas I found out first hand that racism is alive and prospering against America. I was there when the law passed in Arizona giving the police the right to detain a person to verify , as an outsider in a community within the borders of a country I am proud of , I did not hesitate to make plans to move further north to the Midwest . Originating from the Northeastern states I never seen racism to the extent that I felt as if I had gone to a foreign land as I had when I moved to the south Texas . A mist the problems we have with drugs and the economy in this country , the last thing we need to be teaching is the history of a country that if it was so good then there would be no problem for no one would be immigrating to this country . As too that if anyone doesn’t like the laws here , such as Arizona’s law then they should read the Mexican laws on immigration and what rights an American has there .

  • Jsans

    I disagree. Why do people come to their own assumptions about people who they just saw on TV without using any quotes they said? It seems racist in itself. He’s white and older so the way he’s thinking must be like “this”, regardless of what he actually said. What Horne did say is that he believes in individuality and using education in furthering prosperity. What he said he didn’t believe in is education that teaches young people to racially identify and then divide themselves from the rest of the country based on history that happened hundreds of years ago. On top of that, for young people to be taught with tax payer money to blindly hate a political party is wrong, he said. For you to assume that he is automatically thinking that “anyone that doesn’t look like him is inferior and should not have a voice in society” is actually the bigger problem here, not Horne.

  • nlkdj

    I went to school in Michigan and I learned about all of that in my American History. It wasn’t just the teacher, but the textbook had it all documented.

  • ddd

    There’s nothing wrong with the Attorney General, Tom. He’s preventing an educational system that is teaching young people to first, racially identify in order to realize that, second, they are victims and should do something about it, and third, to blindly hate a political party of the U.S. I’m sure if no one could testify that these ethnic studies were doing those three things in Arizona, the Attorney General of Arizona wouldn’t have a problem with it.

  • ddd

    When I say victim, I use that term as a false statement. Calling a modern day Mexican-American a victim of the white race would be like calling a modern day white person a slave owner.

  • ddd

    Horne did provide examples and proof, actually. He had several testimonies from instructors about how they overheard the classes telling young students that the U.S. was and still is a racist based society, that the southwest was stolen from Mexico and they need to take it back in their lifetime, etc. On top of that, he had a recording of a guest speaker telling the young students that “Republicans hate Latinos.” I guess you missed that major part of the program? I wish people would actually watch the program and what it says instead of just adhering to the things that piss them off in their own minds and spread misinformation to the rest of the population.

  • ddd

    Obviously, if there’s a racial identity problem with Latinos, they need to figure out how to raise their own levels, which is what Mexican-American studies is supposed to do. What they shouldn’t do, if they have a racial identity problem, is learn how to hate anything white and want to bring anything white or traditional down, which is the idea that young people were getting from Tuscon’s particular ethnic studies.

  • ddd

    Bull. It’s not Republicans, it’s not about diversity. There was overwhelming evidence and testimonies that pointed out that the program was teaching young Latinos that the U.S. was and still is a racist based society, that whites are keeping the Latinos down, and that Latinos need to someday take back the Southwest from the U.S. Talk about critically thinking, some of you people don’t even listen to the big picture nor acknowledge it.

  • ddd

    Being taught correctly would also include not being taught to blindly hate political parties in the U.S….Correctly would also include not being taught that you, being whatever race you are, are at a disadvantage because of white people.

  • ddd

    Please explain your claims when you make arguments. Your English spelling is good, but your grammar and quality is terrible. When you say “The problem I see is that your Son’s Generations grew up in a Fantasy World,” it seems like an insult to this man’s son unless you can explain why you think that.And I also don’t see how or why anyone would come to that conclusion just by reading Milt’s comment.

  • ddd

    Yes, you’re right, but there shouldn’t be small segments of education teaching young people to racially identify, then believe that they are victims of the great white, racist nation of the U.S. then told that Republicans hate Latinos, then told that they need to take the Southwest back from the U.S.

  • ddd

    I swear all I was taught in my school in Michigan was about diversity, but no one should be learning to blindly hate a political group or to take back a segment of the country which is why Horne decided against the ethnic studies program.

  • ddd

    I love how people just continually assume about white people. It’s always anti-racist, but it’s SO RACIST IN ITSELF. Yes, I’m saying that calling a white person “racist” just because they’re white is racist in itself. I mean what was Horne thinking? Trying to delete a curriculum that was teaching young people to blindly hate a political party, believe that they are victims of the great white, racist nation of the U.S., and then to take back an entire segment of the U.S.

  • ddd

    Of course, Del Pilar, you would call that “a white person trying to keep the Latinos down and trying to hide his racially charged agenda due to his fear that one day the Latinos will roam the Earth.” I mean, it’s not like he’s trying to save the country from having to deal with a bunch of radical, violent, racially divided people in the future.

  • Red Silver

    You are right about one thing,”low paying jobs” , but your lack of education or age maybe the reason for your statement . This country has gone through these things before when my ancestors migrated here , Irish were either flatfoots or crooks by popular belief , when actually my ancestors did laundry and shoeshines to make money to feed the family and grow , but it was not taught in the schools I went too . Ancestral study is something that should be taught at home by the parents , if it is so important to the parents then let them take the time out of their busy lives to be part of the children life . Then that alone will be the first step in solving a lot of the problems in this country. Instead of pointing the finger at others saying they should do more for our children , we would be able to see the truth at the heart of the problem , we as parents have gotten lazy when it comes to raising our children. My wife being American Mexican wished for the children to know the heritage to which I explained to her it is fine but is something she will teach them at home as after school studies . The schools are overwhelmed with some much to teach and so little time , it does not have time to worry about any other country then this one we are in . So instead of expressing your ignorance by mentioning a group of people doing low paying jobs at this point and time , learn a little more about the history of this country and you will see that many races have gone through this prior to the American Mexican.

  • ddd

    I know, right? On top of the irony, it’s completely irrational. They were being taught in their little program that they are victims of the great white, racist nation of the U.S.–the country that’s spending billions of dollars trying to figure out how to peacefully and legally lead Mexicans to U.S. citizenship. Mexico’s solution would be to shoot, rape, and massacre people if their illegal immigrant problem was as bad as the U.S.’s.

  • kls

    My Grandfather always told me stories about the immigrating Irish back in the turn of the century. Back then though, no one was pushing for the government to care for people’s ethnic background. American education was to integrate everyone into American public life. When people came to America from Korea or Italy in the 1900′s, they came to be Americans, not a Korean who lives in America. They went to school to learn how to be successful in America, not how to speak Korean and Korean history. If their parents valued their children knowing Korean language and history, they would teach them themselves. Like you said, personalized ethnic teachings should be up to the parents and families. Public education is for general education.

  • Red Silver

    I am sad to hear you are from prior to the civil rights movement and made the statement you posted . Knowing that you have lived long enough to see that the school system is already overloaded with teaching the history of this country with such a limited time frame , to show special study to any ethnic group must take away from learning about the country in which we live and support. Ancestral study is something that should be taught at home by the parents , for if it is so important to the parents then they should be willing to sacrifice their time to get involved in their children , by doing so then the parents would have no one to blame or give credit too on the way the children grow into adults . I learned about my ancestors from Ireland and France from my parents and at the time hated the after school studies but now understand. Through my life when I made mistakes my mother would blame my father and my father would blame my mother , but I never heard them blame the schools or the system , for what is clearly the responsibility of the parents.

  • Meg Petersen

    I think we have to look at the unintended messages we may be sending by not including all points of view in the curriculum. We don’t encourage critical thinking by presenting only one version of history, especially when that version does not encourage us to examine our history critically. Any unchallenged ideology is a bad idea. For me the ideal would be a truly inclusive curriculum that placed our national project of equity and justice at the center. The professor who spoke at the end had many wise things to say. However, attacking a program that had been empirically demonstrated to improve the chances of graduation and academic success for so many students seems the wrong way to go.

  • CGNH

    We are a mixture of races from different parts of the world, that is American History, which I believe should be a history elective after US Government and World History. At Pinkerton Academy in Derry, NH, they offer Global Studies:

    Global Studies 224 GLOBAL STUDIES 1 – China/India
    This half-year (0.5 credit) unleveled elective is designed to be a survey course covering the geography, economics, peoples, language, population, resources, basic history, current developments and foreign affairs of primarily China and India. The course is directed towards students who are interested in social studies, world travel and international business and who desire to learn more about different nations and cultures. Technology and international dialog are encouraged.

    225 GLOBAL STUDIES 2 – Russia/Latin America
    This half-year (0.5 credit) unleveled elective has a structure similar to Global Studies 1. It covers areas of Russia and Latin America, with further emphasis on economic and social interaction among countries in those areas.

    228 GLOBAL STUDIES 3 – Middle East/Africa
    This half-year (0.5 credit) unleveled elective has a structure similar to Global Studies 1 and 2. It covers the areas of the Middle East and Africa and emphasizes the interactions and conflicts among the different peoples and religions of that region and the regional and international tensions caused by such conflicts

    I think incorporating Mexican studies is another important area to be taught to all Americans, not just those with Mexican decent. We are a melting pot that should teach acceptance and appreciation of our differences, not hatred. Teach the subject the right way.

  • nvsand

    I think what you don’t realize is that critical thinking eliminates unintended messages.

  • nvsand

    Thunderbolt: How sad for you. Mexicans are Arizona or did you not study any history!

  • nvsand

    Well, truth is truth. Do you have any examples where that is not true from any where in the world? I am a white people!

  • nvsand

    Where did it say all that you are saying?

  • nvsand

    Oops, guess you missed about half of the words in the whole program.

  • nvsand

    Do you not want a tax to pay for the war, war, war! Pay up!

  • nvsand

    I agree the U.S. school system will continued to be dummied down if we foolish follow proposals for education such as Ms. Rhee’s.

  • nvsand

    Question: Did the class really teach a blind hate of a political group or did you just insert that assumption?

  • tony barron

    it makes me sick. how can anyone tell a human being what not to read especially when its reading or studies to make you aware of your self identity. remember the days when you were told what to read and not what to read? times are changing the old guard mentality is no longer viable. remember when black slaves were denied reading? please remember mexican americans did just not just arrive here, we have been here for over 500 years okay!!! how much does does anyone know about mexican american history, african american or native american?

  • nvsand

    Oh my gosh! We can be overtaken without a fight!

  • Enraged Citizen

    While I do agree that all aspects of American history should be taught, it should be taught as AMERICAN HISTORY, not Mexican-American, not African-American, there is not Italian-American History classes, or Polish-American, or Irish-American, or Native-American History classes taught. So why do we why single out one specific. America is a conglomeration of many cultures, so make the history that, not make certain ethnic groups more important than others.

  • Anonymous

    I agree!

    Subject: [needtoknow] Re: A contentious curriculum

  • abm

    As a former history teacher I TOTALLY Agree that our teaching and learning needs to be expanded. There are usually many different perspectives to events in history and more than one (at least) needs to be presented. The enemy to this is TIME!

  • abm

    You obviously had VERY good parents and a very good upbringing. Although I am not a liberal democrat, I agree with and applaud almost everything you have said. I favor incorporation of ethnic studies on many levels BUT when I saw the MANNER (and the attitudes) of the protests I was repulsed. We need to teach our youth to be proud of THEIR ancestry. In the eyes of the world my personal ancestors did not achieve great things but they SURVIVED often in the face of huge obstacles and I ‘prosper’ today at least partially because of their efforts.

  • abm

    good points. thank you.

  • abm

    As a former history teacher I strongly agree but again the enemy is TIME. What do you leave out? A few years ago our district proposed that our high schools would teach U.S. history beginning after the Civil War. Eventually that proposal was abandoned but……

  • abm

    amen! (can I say that?)

  • abm

    listen to the program again.

  • abm

    the problem with that is ….factual truth’s do change…even if that sounds weird. I grew up during the Vietnam conflict and believed all those ‘facts and truths’ we were fed. Turns out neither the government nor the “Jane Fonda’s” shared facts or truths…just partials!

  • abm


  • Catherine

    One thing that should be addressed is that American history and cultural studies needs to be all inclusive of many different ethnic and gender perspectives. Traditional American history classes were extremely one-sided. Learning to incorporate all aspects of the complicated picture of our society and history should be educators’ primary goal.

  • Kevin Whitey

    In an effort to be kind, I would like to say that the Arizona Attorney General (and former Supt. of Tucson shools) is a blind fool. It is obvious to me that he came to a conclusion first, and then set out to manufacture proof that he was right. It is absolutely important for all of us to have a sense of both personal and cultural pride – within the context of strong righteous values for our society as a whole. As a very white anglo citizen of these United States, I have learned over time that this truly is the greatest country in the world – and at the same time – there is much going on now and in our history, to be very ashamed and apalled by. I feel that over the past couple of years, Arizona has become the “LAUGHING STOCK” of all America. But we can’t be laughing because it so, so hurtful to its citizen’s and the country. Although I believe there is not very much in the Republican perspective that agree with, I pray that Senator Marco Rubio continues to be a stronger and strengthening voice in the Republican party. Republicans ARE in a place where THEY need to PROVE they don’t hate peoples of color.

  • Veronica Ibarra

    lack of education? age? This country is in total control of the Corp. that go out of this country to recruit professionals and get them to legal visas to work here, that is my case, why would the USA would do something like that with so many universities of top quality, your response answers a lot of the Why, inside the beltway Contractors like Northroop Grumman, CACI, SRI, etc, etc, go overseas to hire top post graduates, they will not find then in Arizona, you talk about ignorance like if you may hold a lot of knowledge, but expressing that “wife will teach them at home” is the argument probably use by the State AG, when in reality it must be part of any curriculum in AZ Middle School or HS, you probably have a wife with the time to do that, 90% of the minorities in AZ are overwhelmed with day to day job and you think they will have the time to prepare a history lesson at home? There is nothing wrong with being Ignorant, not doing something about it is what is not OK, in your case the later seem to be the case………………….

  • Veronica Ibarra

    Unfortunately the equation: Republican+White has been mix disproportionately in the country and that has and will favor the other party in Future Elections, not yet in AZ but a generation or 2 and you will see the consequences of the inaction since Reagan’s time when he said “Latinos are closer to Republican way of thinking, they just do not know it” and no one worked on showed them that, I agree with Reagan in that aspect, but 30 something years is to late………………… get used to big deficits and big spending, 50,000 Latino youth turn 18 every day………….

  • Veronica Ibarra

    Well, not by the comment from Milt, other sources will inform you how many students graduate with a STEM degree V. an Art/Liberal/Social Sc. etc degrees that have high unemployment rate this days , other sources can easily tell you in public High Schools how many are dropping out, how many will not go to college and what population is actually graduating from Colleges, now other sources will tell you what is the annual expense on Video Games, etc and distractions that are affecting His son’s generations from the real problems of the country…….

  • Veronica Ibarra

    Well if you read the numbers from Office of Government Accounting, Treasury dept, and the likes you can see the tax is not paying for it, but the Debt created by the Gov…….that is why a deficit is created every year and is getting so Huge…………

  • Missy

    Your assumption that I didn’t watch the program is wrong. It
    seems, then, that you’re “adhering to the things that piss [you] off in [your] own [mind] and spreading misinformation to the rest of the population.”

    If you reread my response, you’ll see that I mention (as you
    did) the handful of testimonies of teachers that served as the primary evidence against the course, evidence which I believe falls under what Horne called “fallacies of small sampling techniques.” I’m also not convinced that discussing racism in this country means you’re anti-American. If this were true, I suppose we’d all just need to keep quiet in the face of racism out of fear that when we speak up we’ll be accused of hating all races besides our own. Does that seem right?

    And while I understand why the Huerta recording would cause
    alarm, this still does not demonstrate that the instructors or course itself
    was indoctrinating students to hate anyone who is not Latino. Instead, it shows the perspectives of that guest speaker. And Horne continued to argue that the course and instructors were the issue despite not having solid proof that it/they was/were indoctrinating hate.

  • Veronica Ibarra

    and then I wonder how AZ has an AG like the one they have or how a Republican like Todd Akin try to get a seat in a Senate post………your knowledge about Mexico Solution is in the same category…………Latinos are looking for a legal STATUS, that can be accomplish without being offer a citizen status! do you know that? know the difference?

  • Veronica Ibarra

    The immigration laws in Mexico allow 1,600,000 and growing number of American Citizens to retire and live south of the Border without a legal resident status…………..try to do that coming from Mexico? even with $$$ and retire here!

  • Missy

    I’m not sure why you assume that Latinos have a racial identity problem. And I’m confused how you would gather that Latinos have a racial identity problem from my comment above. The evidence from the video does not seem to prove that the course was teaching students to hate anything white or want to break down white people’s traditions (besides, of course, Horne saying so). I’m not sure where you’re getting this. Is this another instance where you are adhering to things you’re already thinking and are mad about?

    I agree with you that no course should teach students to hate any race or should work at tearing down other races’ traditions, as long as said traditions are not harmful to others. Where I disagree with you is on the importance of addressing race as something that has real implications in this country. Attending to the issue of race, again, does not make you a racist, and it does not indicate that you have a racial identity problem. It makes you aware rather than pretending it doesn’t exist.

  • Veronica Ibarra

    well then you are picking a loosing recipe, Marco Rubio is not really close to the majority of Latinos in the US, his Parents like any other Cuban that touches land get granted automatically Legal Resident Status, and in Months they get a Green Card, Marco Rubio is really what democrats want to get in few years, will be so easy to find a Latino Match of democratic views…………………..

  • Veronica Ibarra

    The only situation with your comment is that many of this Kids are not many generations Mexican-American, they have parents that came and are in a limbo status, with little or no time to attend, let alone understand a High School curriculum……..that is why is so important for the Public School System to offer guidance to this kids with little to none academic support at home……………

  • Veronica Ibarra

    Then you are not probably in the camp that Public Schools are teaching Mediocrity…………Unions have good intentions and benefits, but to many parasites have damage in an irreversible way the Public Education system of the USA thanks to those bad “apples” from the Unions…..

  • Missy

    I like your idea of “American History” being inclusive of all the cultures that make up this country and its history. I bet many would agree that Mexican-American history and African-American history (to name a few) ultimately fall under the umbrella term “American History” anyway. I guess I’m just more supportive of why culture-specific history courses should exist. Since traditional history teaching and even our current textbooks are not all inclusive, I can see why new courses on specific cultures would need to be developed. In the case of the course in Arizona, the majority of the student population is Latino, so I think it’s safe to assume that’s why that particular cultural perspective influenced the new course. I can understand why it would be problematic to require only a Mexican-American course across all schools in the nation, but for me–since the demand was there in Arizona and the course seemed to have such positive effects on graduation rates–I can see how a Mexican-American history course is powerful and important. Also–and on a more practical level–it may be challenging to fit all American cultures’ histories in one class and still treat each as fully as they deserve.

  • alan strouse

    Michelle, Veronica, abm- Thank you so much for your feedback. My fondest hope is that when they bring back “ethnic studies”, it is a guide to teach all students on how to research their own ancestral history “warts and all”. The U.S. strength has come from more highly developed cultures of Europe and Asia to a large extent; but we have also been genocidal and deeply flawed. For our survival, there is no room at this point for ANY “supremist” mentality, combative responses, or hate language or behavior.

  • trustee

    Taxpayers dollars should not be used to promote racism and anti Americanism. If Mexicans are to come here it should be to love America and support it, not to conquer it. For Americans to pay for the destruction of America is suicide. Ethnic studies teachers promote the idea that Mexico should take over the Southwest. Look at how poorly Mexico is governing itself right now. Is that what either Americans or Mexicans want? If it was, millions of Mexicans would not be desperate to come here in the first place. The ethnic studies programs defy logic.

  • Missy


    I’ve heard this argument before, where the person pointing their finger at racism is in turn called a racist. And I understand that this is possible if, as you say, someone calls all White persons racist simply because they’re White. But that isn’t happening. No one is saying that all White people are racist. No one. If they were, I–as a White woman–would argue alongside you that this was racial stereotyping and utterly false. But do you really believe that Latinos in Arizona are not dealing with racism and discrimination? If there is even the slightest bit of racism that we can detect, should we not address it loud and clear?

    You say that the Arizona course “was teaching young people to blindly hate a political party, believe that they are victims of the great white, racist nation of the U.S., and then to take back an entire segment of the U.S.” But none of this you or anyone actually knows to be true. This is an exaggerated interpretation of what happened, clearly fueled by how angry and defensive you seem to be. What we do know is a few comments that some teachers overheard, comments that are likely out of context and that cannot be compared against the thousand other things that could have happened in that course that do not teach students to hate White people. We also know that Huerta said, “Republicans hate Latinos.” And I’m sure we can all agree that was out of line. But that doesn’t mean the entire class for all these years has diligently trained its students to hate the republican party. It just means that Huerta said it that day.

    Lastly, if Mr. Horne was really trying to save the country by encouraging a more united people–and not just controlling and shutting down nontraditional views–he’d work WITH the program in Arizona to make sure their curriculum and approach stayed in effect but was more responsible about what teachers and/or guest speakers say and do.

  • Missy

    I say this in a reply below but think it’s worth repeating on its own:

    It’s been argued that Mr. Horne is trying to prevent a divided nation. If Mr. Horne was really trying to encourage a more united people–and not just working to control and shut down nontraditional views–he’d work WITH the program in Arizona to make sure their curriculum and approach stayed in effect but was perhaps more responsible about what teachers and/or guest speakers say and do.

  • Missy

    “Overwhelming evidence”?? C’mon. That’s a huge overstatement followed by unnecessary exaggerations.

  • Missy

    Why would you assume that the school’s students are illegal immigrants that the border enforcement should have taken care of? And exactly what’s so wrong to including a kind of cultural studies to a culture who is the majority in that area? Are you suggesting that no matter how a region is populated they should not have a say in what they study? Seems to me you’re an advocate for ridding the state (perhaps country?) of people with Mexican heritages. Is this really the message you want to send out?

  • Francine

    One of the really sad aspects about America educational system is that It has always been viewed from a White American prospective, which is far to often wrong. You can’t have a intelligent dicsussion with the vast majority of white americans about the total and diverse aspects of this country history. For example: Latinos were here long before christopher Columbus arrival. Afro Americans were here before the Mayflower, Spainards introduced the horse to the Americas, Native Peoples had a culture and a way of life that was destroyed by the arrival of whites. I realize that mosr white Americans view everything from their point of view and that the only history our students should learn, is the history that they approve.

  • Missy

    Thank you!

  • Missy

    Assuming someone’s age and lack of education only makes you look immature and uneducated. It’s easy to say that parents should do this and that. But as Veronica already noted, this is not a possibility for all working parents, especially those who are impoverished and minorities (which too often goes hand in hand).

    Lots of people like to argue that all ethnic groups have experienced adversity as if this simple fact means that any group currently facing it should shut up already. If there are injustices happening, we should address them and stop pretending that people are just whining.

    And why do we also assume that if Mexicans or other groups immigrate to this country they too are supposed to just shut up and enjoy the benefits without attending to the country’s problems. So just because the U.S. is a great nation no one is allowed to critique it? Should we not identify its weaknesses and make them stronger? Is it that farfetched to think that more diverse histories could be part of improving things??

    It’s not special treatment for public schools to include the histories of various ethnic groups. It’s a responsible and just approach to educating a diverse nation.

  • Missy

    I’m pretty sure this is a debate about cultural studies in Arizona and its connections to education and race in general. When did this become an English class? Using one’s inflated sense of authority given their ability to catch grammar mistakes should not be used to belittle others.

  • Red Silver

    Considering that we are all immigrants in this nation and how much time our children spend in school , does anybody really believe that there is enough time to teach ancestral history in our public schools for to be fair and not racist it would be only right to teach history of all ethic groups to which there would not be enough time in a day or a year for such in American public schools. Looking for special treatment for any minority group is a form of racism . As for being impoverished that does not care about ethnic group or religion , it can happen to anyone . This country just promises the possibility to succeed but it is up to everyone to make it happen . You are correct that we the people should speak up about change and band together to voice our opinion , but to do so about what benefits us as a nation not as one ethnic group , for to do so is just another form of racism..

  • krd

    Does anyone know if these programs are open to all students regardless of ethnicity? If they are, I would be interested in knowing how those students feel about the program.