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DEBORAH POTTER, correspondent: For generations, it's been a rite of passage.

Dr. John Snyder with stethoscope: Can I listen to you?

POTTER: A visit to the pediatrician—and an injection or two.

Nurse: Okay, all done.

POTTER: Rahm Kaiser Epstein is 15 months old. On this day, he's being vaccinated against measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox. He doesn't much like it. Neither does the four-month-old in the next room. Hayden's vaccines also covered multiple contagious diseases, including diphtheria and whooping cough.

SCOTT TAYLOE: I think it's all the standard, routine shots I think we need to protect us. We've all had the same shots as kids, so I don't see a reason why he wouldn't.

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POTTER: At this pediatric practice in Amherst, Massachusetts, most children get all their vaccines on time. But Dr. John Snyder sees a growing number who insist on delaying vaccinations or flatly refuse them.

DR. JOHN SNYDER (Amherst Pediatrics): These are not bad parents. These are parents who do want to do the best thing, and unfortunately they are misinformed, and there’s an enormous amount of misinformation out there. You have parents who are certain that vaccines are the cause of maybe autism or autoimmune diseases or whatever else they may have heard, and they know because they’ve done their “research,” and they know the answers, and I’m just part of the problem.

POTTER: Before her son, Logan, was born, Jodie Castanza had already decided not to have him vaccinated, concerned about a possible link between some vaccines and autism or asthma.

JODIE CASTANZA (Childbirth Educator, Grow Community): I’ve read enough that said, you know, boys in particular seem to be more at risk. That there’s maybe a genetic link that then makes boys at higher risk, not that the vaccinations are causing the issues, but that the vaccinations might be triggering the cause of the issues, and until we know more I just—I don’t feel good about it.

post02-vaccine-scare

POTTER: The autism concern stems mainly from a report published 15 years ago in a British medical journal that has since been withdrawn and labeled a fraud. But Castanza isn't convinced that doctors know best.

CASTANZA: I don’t ever put full power and control into anybody who says, “I’m a scientist. I know what’s going on,” I don’t feel like anybody really has the right to take away that decision-making power, and I also feel like it’s an important responsibility for parents to not place the responsibility for the decisions around their parenting, their children, in the hands of someone else.

POTTER: Every state in the country requires children to be vaccinated before they can go to school. But in all but two states, West Virginia and Mississippi, parents can opt out by stating a personal or religious objection. In most states, including Massachusetts, there's no proof or explanation required. It's as easy as signing a piece of paper.

ROBBIN SUPRENANT (School Nurse, Amherst Regional High School): If a parent says that that’s a religious belief, that’s what we need to go with, and we need to keep our fingers crossed that there isn’t going to be an outbreak during the school year. Otherwise, those students would be held out of school until the period of communicability has passed, and then unfortunately other students and staff members could be subject to illness.

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POTTER: The vast majority of American children get all of their recommended vaccinations. Only about one and a half percent are unvaccinated. But in some areas, the rate is significantly higher. In this part of Western Massachusetts, for example, it's six percent, and that raises the risk of outbreaks. A community with a vaccination rate that low loses what's called "herd immunity" to contagious diseases, so anyone who hasn't been vaccinated can get sick. That includes babies too young to be immunized and people with certain health conditions who can't be vaccinated.

DR. SNYDER: There are some schools where the children are completely unimmunized, and those children are at very high risk, should a child come with measles from another country. And again, all these diseases are just a plane ride away, and measles is incredibly contagious. One child who’s susceptible exposed to a child with the disease, there’s a 90-plus percent chance they're going to get that disease.

POTTER: Recent outbreaks of measles and whooping cough have been concentrated in areas with low vaccination rates, including religious communities of Orthodox Jews and evangelical Protestants, some of whom believe vaccination is interference with divine will. Some Catholics also object to a few specific vaccines because they're based on a cell line obtained from aborted fetal tissue in the 1960s. One of them is the relatively new chicken pox vaccine, and the Furton family, devout Catholics, wrestled with whether to give it to their youngest child, Maggie.

post04-vaccine-scare

EDWARD FURTON (National Catholic Bioethics Center): On the one hand, you have your own child whom you love very dearly, and you don’t want to have to undergo any kind of disease, but you’re weighing against that in association with a product that is connected, yes, in a distant way, with abortion. And for those of us who are adamantly opposed to the harming of the innocent in any way, that’s a very serious problem for us.

POTTER: Instead of being vaccinated, Maggie was deliberately exposed to chicken pox and caught it, just as the rest of the family already had. It was the Furtons' way of making sure she was protected and posed no risk to anyone else. All of the children received every other recommended vaccine.

Furton is an ethicist with the National Catholic Bioethics Center, well aware that the Vatican advises Catholics they have the right to abstain from vaccinations only if it does not put children at risk and that protecting the whole population is more important than concerns about how some vaccines are made.

FURTON: There’s a duty to care for one’s health and for one’s life, and there’s a particular duty to care for one’s children. So the sense from the Church is that people should be immunized for the sake of the common good, and children in particular should be immunized against any seriously dangerous disease.

post05-vaccine-scare

DEBORAH POTTER: In spite of the concern about abortion?

FURTON: In spite, yes. The connection is thought to be distant enough to justify what’s called cooperation with the wrongdoing of others.

POTTER: Jodie Castanza has no religious objection to vaccination; most people who opt out don't. For her, it's a personal decision that she thinks is of no one else's concern.

CASTANZA: People definitely will say that, you know, you’re putting other kids at risk with that and maybe, but kids are also at risk when they pick up sticks and play sword fights on the playground and, you know, slam each other into snow banks and put rocks in snowballs and you know, all—there’s so many risks that I’m not willing to take on guilt or ownership of that particular one at this point.

POTTER: In some ways, vaccines have been victims of their own success. Illnesses that once ravaged communities are now out of sight, out of mind.

DR. SNYDER: These are nasty diseases. These aren’t illnesses that most parents are familiar with now. These are diseases that frequently hospitalized, disfigured, permanently damaged, or killed children on a regular basis. There is really also a moral responsibility and an ethical responsibility, I think, for parents to look at their community and think, you know, would I want these children to be sickened because I decided not to vaccinate my child?

POTTER: What worries doctors like Snyder is that it might take a resurgence of preventable diseases for parents who now refuse vaccines to see them as essential.

In Amherst, Massachusetts, I'm Deborah Potter for Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly.

Inoculation Ethics

In most states, parents can choose not to vaccinate their children based on a personal or religious objection. It’s a choice that has begun raising concerns about the ethics of refusal and the rising risk of outbreaks.

  • Anne Dachel

    Parents need to educate themselves. Check out the National Vaccine Information Center. http://www.nvic.org/
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Anne Dachel

    Dr. Snyder doesn’t mention the fact that as a physician, he isn’t liable if a child is injured by a vaccine. The federal government has protected both the doctor and the vaccine maker. Instead, parents of a child who suffers a vaccine reaction have to appeal to a federal program where they’re up against government lawyers defending a government program using government money. Few parents ever get their day in court.
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Anne Dachel

    HDNet TV exposed the fact that while health officials continue to tell us studies show no link, the federal government has paid out millions of dollars for compensation for vaccine injuries that included autism.
    http://www.ebcala.org/unanswered-questions
    Video “Mixed Signals” On HDNet TV: http://blip.tv/hdnet-world-report/vaccines-and-autism-mixed-signals-5479546
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Anne Dachel

    There are many people who challenge the claim that there is no link between vaccines and autism.
    An upcoming film by Jeff Hays and Bobby Sheehan called Brought, looks into the controversy surrounding vaccines.
    http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/06/bought-a-film-by-jeff-hays-and-bobby-sheehan-what-if-andrew-wakefield-was-right.html
    The short trailer to the movie The Greater Good, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmEGbwQsOU makes it clear that there are experts on both sides and a lot of serious questions that need to be asked. The medical community and health officials promote vaccines as the greatest achievement in modern medicine yet there is growing fear over vaccine side effects.
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Anne Dachel

    These Fox News reports show that the government has long recognized that vaccination can cause autism.
    Dr. Sarah Bridges was on Fox News in 2011 talking about how son developed autism following routine vaccinations. The government agreed and she was awarded a $7 to $8 million settlement for lifetime care. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXp4hM3eQuI
    On Fox News, May 10, 2011, New York University law professor Mary Holland discussed the fact that a stunning report from Pace Law School revealed that for years, parents have won vaccine damage suits resulting in autism in federal court, all the while the government denied doing so. http://video.foxnews.com/v/4687300/law-school-links-autism-vaccines-in-report/
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Anne Dachel

    CBS News ran this story about Hannah Poling in 2010: Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award. Are we to believe that vaccines have nothing to do with autism–unless you’re Hannah Poling? http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Anne Dachel

    This is a link to a list of approximately 150 scientists and physicians who have serious concerns about vaccine safety.
    http://www.greatergoodmovie.org/news-views/doctors-and-scientists-with-concerns-about-vaccines/
    There are over 200 independent studies done by well-credentialed experts that raise serious concerns about vaccine side effects shown on The Greater Good website
    http://www.greatergoodmovie.org/learn-more/science/.
    If you are a worried parent, you are not alone. If you or your child has been vaccine-injured, you are not alone.
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Anne Dachel

    Why doesn’t Dr. Snyder call for a simple comparison study of fully-vaccinated and never-vaccinated children. It would settle the question overnight. If one in every 50 never-vaccinated children also has autism, the proof would be there for everyone to see. There are now so many parents too afraid to vaccinate that the study group is out there. Our health officials do retrospective studies like this all the time but they refuse to call for one that could end the most heated controversy in pediatric medicine. We all should be asking why. Unless and until this study is done, the question remains open.
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Anne Dachel

    Children today don’t get the same number of vaccines their parents did.
    This link shows the dramatic increase in the number of vaccine our children received between 1983 and 2012.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-arqv6t8VacY/T7QvOcTrpmI/AAAAAAAAD-U/EBqU4n3R0SE/s1600/VaxCDC.png
    Where is even one study on the cumulative effect of the increasing number of vaccines in the childhood schedule? THERE ISN’T ONE.
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

  • Maurinemeleck

    The ethics of refusal? You must be kidding. What about the ethics of holding nobody accountable for vaccine injury.? Neither doctors or vaccine makers can be held responsible.
    What about the ethics of 1 in 31 boys now suffering from autism and nobody knows why, so they tell us. How about the CDC refusing to release pertinent information of vaccine injury under the freedom of information act? How dare anybody talk about the ethics of not vaccinating.
    Maurine Meleck, SC
    grandmother to 1 in 31(vaccine injured)

  • Katydid

    Has anybody asked the opinions of the 2000+ families whose cases of vaccine-induced brain damage were conceded and compensated by the US Department of Health and Human Services? What are THEIR opinions of “vaccination ethics?” Many of them have gone on record stating that they would never have agreed to those vaccines at that time, had they been told that those vaccines carried the risk of seizures and brain damage, and that, if they could do it over, they would have preferred the risks of the disease to the risks of the vaccines?

    Why does Dr. John Snyder talk about “parents who are certain that vaccines are the cause of maybe autism or autoimmune diseases or whatever else they may have heard?” Why isn’t he talking about the peer-reviewed, mainstream studies that clearly indicate a link between vaccines and autoimmune disorders, vaccines and seizure disorders, vaccines and bowel disorders–all of which are linked with autism, and NONE of which are mentioned on the “informed consent” sheets parents are asked to sign? Why does he imply that the parents have “heard about” these things, rather than admit that their concerns are backed by peer-reviewed, mainstream studies?

    Why does Deborah Potter say that the main concern about vaccines and autism stems from a retracted British study, when there are many mainstream, peer-reviewed studies suggesting a causal relationship between vaccines and autism, that raise more concern than the British one ever did?

    Why does Scott Tayloe say that these are the standard shots we all got as kids, so it’s all right? It’s not the same shots we got as kids. I got 7 shots as a kid by 7th grade. Today’s kids get 50 by kindergarten. It’s not the same, and it’s not all right.

    If the subject is the ethics of vaccines, the real issue is this: it is not ethical to mandate a one-size-fits-all, invasive medical procedure in the name of protecting others under the best of circumstances. It’s downright evil to mandate it based on “studies” designed by, directed by, interpreted by, ghost-written by, and marketed by the industry selling (and profiting by) that invasive medical procedure.

  • John Lockwood

    sorry about your grandchild having autism, but you are mistaken to pin it on a vaccine. There is not only no link, but there is no reason to think it would change the way a brain develops.

  • John Lockwood

    this study has been done across hundreds of thousands of children more than once and they show no link between vaccine and autism. unfortunately people choose to ignore evidence.

  • John Lockwood

    why don’t you have any interest in discovering the reason for autism rather than promoting your business and a long discredited idea. you are exploiting parent’s fears and gullibility to sell ads

  • Jonathan Walmsley

    I don’t think this proposed study would settle anything. Study after study has shown no connection between vaccines and autism, but the idea remains firm in the minds of some.

    As for why this study should not be done: ethics, lack of prior plausibility, no support in the literature.

  • John Lockwood

    ha ha. you ask why no studies, but then claim the studies done show no link, but you choose to ignore them because they don’t show the results you want.

  • John Lockwood

    yes they do

  • Jon W

    This seems like an advertisement for a documentary. I’d follow the money here.

  • John Lockwood

    if there was some reason to think vaccine caused autism, then maybe there could be a reason to hold a doctor liable. otherwise it would be a frivolous lawsuit that should be dismissed.

  • Jon W

    The Poling family was given a vaccine table injury compensation. The court does not rule on causation. The evidence firmly supports the hypothesis that there is no connection between vaccines and autism. This case is tragic, but is not evidence of a connection.

    This is a common bait-and-switch tactic from anti-vaccine advocates.

  • Jon W

    Once again, you’re misrepresenting VICP.

    The plural of ‘anecdote’ is ‘anecdotes’, not data. And not even close to ‘proof’.

  • Jon W

    You’re playing both sides. In this post you claim VICP is an unfair and unjust forum. But above you cited it as proof of some connection between vaccines and autism.

    Which is it?

    This lazy (dare I say deceitful) approach is common to your arguments.

  • Maurinemeleck

    If there is no link, then how come vaccine makers and doctors cannot be held for the outcome?

  • Jon W

    You’re asking the wrong question: is there quality evidence for a cumulative effect?

    Your approach assumes that there already is.

  • Maurinemeleck

    There has never been a study of vaccinated vs unvaccinated children. (no matter what lies to bring to this) Even the CDC says it has never done one.

  • Jon W

    You don’t seem to understand VICP.

    That or you are being deceitful

  • Maurinemeleck

    How come th e government cannot come up with the cause of autism after almost 3 decades? We know but the gov’t refuses to admit the reason(many of them know it too)the reason

  • Jon W

    There is also no research to support a massive and unethical study like this.

  • Jon W

    If you “know” then why is the best evidence a retracted study from a fraud?

  • Maurinemeleck

    been in it and boy do I understand it. You are wrong again

  • Maurinemeleck

    Unethical.? LOL
    No research-only 1 in 31 boys here with autism. Enuf to make my skin crawl.

  • Jon W

    Ah, the argument from personal skin crawling. Where is here?

    And yes, it’s unethical and impractical to randomize vax v non-vax.

  • Jon W

    Please explain.

  • John Lockwood

    think hard about this question you asked. it makes no sense. are you saying if there was a link, then doctors shouldn’t be held accountable?

  • Maurinemeleck

    Years ago they called it autism.. That word was replaced by encephalopathy so they wouldn’t haveto compensate the huge numbers of vaccine injured children, Autism is encephalopathy. If you don’t have a childon the spectrum and have never seen their labs, thenyou would not understand any of this.
    You are obviously a person who takes the government’s word for the truth. Course you are not alone.

  • Carl

    Anne Dachel is as fringe as they come, and she has no desire to be objective about vaccines because she doesn’t want to admit that the made-up vaccine/autism claim is wrong. She is not someone to trust in the least on the subject of vaccines.

    It is ironic that she accuses others of bias. If vaccines didn’t work, they are a small portion of lifelong medical costs we pay to doctors and not a huge loss for them. But the anti-vaccine lies are all Dachel has. She would be nobody if not for her deluded followers to whom she has preached these false claims. She has the biggest bias in the human mind: pride. No amount of money can rival the power of an attention-seeker who does not want to admit that they were wrong when they screamed so loudly in public about the grand conspiracy to silence them.

  • Jon W

    Afraid you are factually incorrect on this one. Encephalopathy refers to any number of brain disorders (hepatic, lyme, etc). Autism, any where on the spectrum, is a neurodevelopmental disorder. It is possible to have both, but they are not the same disease.

    I do not have a child on the spectrum, but I have seen and am literate in human physiological lab values.

    And no, one doesn’t need to take the government’s word as the truth here. The overwhelming mass of peer reviewed evidence stands alone.

    And you have yet to show any insight into VICP.

  • John Lockwood

    do you really care to find the cause of autism? why waste time blaming something for no reason? it is less than helpful.

  • John Lockwood

    anne, you forgot to switch back from this fake account when replying. oops.

  • anony mouse

    umm… My parents believe three (count them: three) of my siblings suffered brain damage from vaccines and they are still pro-vax. your anecdotes are invalidated by the thousands of anecdotes opposite to yours. That is why the plural of anecdotes (aka “personal stories” or “testimonials”) is NOT data. And that is why need to look at the scientific evidence available which clearly shows vaccines do not cause autism. (btw “brain damage” does not equal “autism” different pathphysiology, different etiology, different “a whole lot of other big medical words you probably don’t understand”)

  • ciaparker2

    John,
    VAccines definitely caused my daughter’s autism: she reacted to the hep-B vax at birth, given without permission and even though I had said I didn’t want her to get it, with four days and nights of endless screaming, vaccine-induced encephalitis (see Judy Converse When Your Doctor is Wrong: Hepatitis-B Vaccine and Autism). She got the DTaP at 2, 4, and 6 months, caught pertussis anyway at 8 months because it is a highly ineffective vaccine, but it’s not serious past the first four or five months, and we both recovered eventually. She started saying two words by 18 months, uh for up at the playground and uff for dog: both words were erased forever as soon as she got the shot, and she was diagnosed with autism two months later. The CDC has recently released Thomas Verstraeten’s study on 40,000 babies in the 1990s who got mercury-containing vaccines: there was a relative risk of autism of 7.6, with 2.0 being enough to show a causal relationship in a court of law. Many courts have found that autism was caused by vaccines. There is no doubt.

  • ciaparker2

    At this time, one in 30 children in the U.S. has autism (recent Somali/general community autism study in Minnesota), up from three per ten thousand in the ’70s, up from zero before vaccines. One in nine has vaccine-induced asthma (see Manitoba study), one in fifty vaccine-iduced peanut allergy, one in ten a respiratory, food, or skin allergy, one in 400 diabetes, one in ten ADHD, one in 80 a seizure disorder. In this situation, it is only surprising that there are any parents willing to give their children any vaccine. I had measles, chickenpox, rubella, flus, rotavirus, pertussis, hep-A, and they were all typical cases, not very serious. I reacted to a tetanus booster with brachial plexus neuropathy, both arms paralyzed the same day, and went on to develop MS. My father was paralyzed for the last three years of his life by a flu vaccine.
    Vaccination choice is a human right. No one has a right to force anyone to submit themselves or their children to a medical intervention which the Supreme Court found three years ago to be unavoidably unsafe. I am MUCH more afraid of vaccines than of the diseases, and we are never going to take another vaccine for the rest of our lives. And that is our right.

  • ciaparker2

    I don’t understand what you said, it makes no sense. Maurine knows that there is a link between vaccines and autism and many other neurological and autoimmune results of vaccines. Since you say that there is no link, then what could be the reason that in 1988, a law was passed absolving doctors and vaccine manufacturers of all liability from disabling or fatal sequelae caused by vaccines? There is a link and that is why the law was passed and the kangaroo Vaccine Court was set up. It throws nearly everyone’s case out because to do otherwise would bankrupt the country. There was going to be a congressional hearing into its abuses of vaccine-damaged families, but pharma interests got the hearing cancelled.

  • ciaparker2

    Pharma interests forced the retraction of the Lancet article, but High Court Judge Sir John Mitting found two years ago that there had been NO FRAUD, the data had been accurately recorded, the children really had gotten autism and bowel disease within days of the MMR. But yeah, Big Pharma has a lot of influence over everything, the mainstream media, government agencies, the health care industry, legal vaccine mandates.

  • ciaparker2

    The causes are obvious. Vaccine encephalitis: every vaccine causes inflammation: that is what forces the production of antibodies. This inflammation is often excessive and often involves the brain (encephalitis), causing brain damage, autism, ADHD, seizure disorders, and learning and behavioral disabilities. Vaccines skew immune response from appropriate development toward a Th-1 kill the pathogen response to an inappropriate preference for a Th-2 autoimmune response, resulting in asthma, allergies, diabetes, and bowel disease. Read Heather Fraser’s book for a stunning, detailed account of how the HIb vaccine (and others) caused the peanut allergy epidemic. And ingredients like mercury (still in most flu vaccines in full force and the trace amounts in many others still being many times over the hazardous waste level), aluminum, formaldehyde, propylene glycol, neomycin, and many types of foreign, highly antigenic proteins all have many nefarious effects of their own, the mercury being especially associated with autism, as mercury poisoning can cause symptoms identical to those of autism and MS, as we know to our rue.

  • nhokkanen

    “There are unanswered questions about vaccine safety… No one should be threatened by the pursuit of this knowledge.”
    - Bernadine Healy, M.D., former director, National Institutes of Health (NIH), and former health editor, U.S. News & World Report
    cover quote from “Vaccine Epidemic: How Corporate Greed, Biased Science, and Coercive Government Threaten Our Human Rights, Our Health, and Our Children”

  • nhokkanen

    Is Scott Tayloe related to Every Child By Two advisor Dr. David Tayloe Jr.? In 1986 David Tayloe Sr. was deemed negligent in a pertussis vaccine brain damage court case settled by jury for $1.1 million.
    http://aapnews.aappublications.org/content/31/8/36.2.full

  • nhokkanen

    Unanswered Questions: A Review of Compensated Cases of Vaccine-Induced Brain Injury
    Pace Environmental Law Review, vol. 28, no. 2, 2011
    http://www.ebcala.org/unanswered-questions
    “The VICP has compensated approximately 2,500 claims of vaccine injury since the inception of the program. This study found 83 cases of acknowledged vaccine-induced brain damage that include autism, a disorder that affects speech, social communication and behavior.”

  • ccdaddy

    This is a JOKE,the newest findings is. That the Vaccines themselves, are failing. (miserably) And they are now causing, all of these so called outbreaks. Here, and world wide.

    Where is the ethics committee,when the vaccines are failing. miserably? Answer,their out to eat at a high end restaurant. With the vaccine makers. Their all corrupt,they have made mistakes at a cost in the trillions. Admitting to this atrocity,has been compared to kicking over a hornets nest the size of the milky way.

    The Idiots,(CDC & AAP) told expecting parents. That they needed to, cocoon their newborn babies. What that was,was any family member that was going to be around the newborn. Needed, in their expert opinion. To be freshly, vaccinated!

    So they tried, their vaccinate or else. Scare tactics. They told the new parents that,

    “you don’t want a loved one, responsible for infecting your newborn. Do you ? “You know,that could lead to possibly killing your child” Don’t you?

    Just recently,they CDC reluctantly said. That, cocooning was not working quit as planed. In fact,they learned that it was not working. At all !.

    In plain, easy to understand language. Their findings were, that those freshly vaccinated loved ones. Maybe, endangering the newborns. It appears, that all those freshly vaccinated relatives. were busy unknowingly shedding the very viruses that they were vaccinated with to protect the child. Get this, for 5 whole weeks they were putting in harms way the very child they were intending to protect?????? And not just the mom or dad,they with their new expert opinion
    they were now suggesting anybody who the newborn comes in contact with. Including all the siblings and the aunts uncles grand parents ect. They now were all, unknowingly shedding the
    newly acquired viruses. You don’t get, any dumber than that!

    And you people,you wonder why? We don’t want, our loved ones injected anymore by these apparent Idiots. Who inject, heavy metals and toxins in babies. That you cannot,by law! in any state in the US. legally flush into the sewer.

    But what can’t be flushed into the sewer, can be injected, it into this Nations most precious resource. Here’s the insanity,within hours of the first breath of life. With a vaccine,intended
    for drug users and people who engage in unprotected sex. When questioned, they don’t deny it’s uselessness on newborn children. They then justify,their reason by saying “we are teaching the parents they need to be responsible and vaccinate. That’s not just insane, that’s criminal stupidity. Possibly ruin, a newborn American child. In order, to teach the parent a valuable lesson.

    knowing that,it’s hard to understand how these people ever got out of medical school. Lets face it folks,understanding that children should not be anywhere near these toxins.Let alone,injecting children with them. That’s! not rocket science. It’s, just plain old common sense. And, logic.
    Is this an example, of their highly touted “evidence based medicine”

  • John Lockwood

    If all governments give pharmaceutical companies the carte blanche to put out any drugs just to make more money, then there wouldn’t be cases of popular and very profitable drugs being taken off the market, but there are.

    I say there is no link to autism, not that there is no risk for any side-effect. There are risks of adverse reactions from vaccines and those affected should be compensated. It is just that a government mandated procedure should protect the doctors that administer it. It still does not imply a link to autism.

  • Dorit Reiss

    The evidence is very clear: vaccines have nothing to do with autism. Scientists looked, in multiple countries, with multiple method, and none has been found. https://www.facebook.com/notes/your-babys-best-shot/vaccines-do-not-cause-autism-a-list-and-discussion-of-studies/395406143918309

  • Dorit Reiss

    As to the initial question, children who suffer vaccine injury are compensated through a plaintiff-friendly, no-fault vaccine. On the other hand, if the same child, through her parent’s neglect to protect her, catches a preventable disease, there is no compensation.

  • Dorit Reiss

    This meme: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=515962285140452&set=pb.414643305272351.-2207520000.1372559181.&type=3&theater based on
    the details in these articles: http://issuu.com/namcp/docs/jmcm_15.3; http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/1/124.full shows that
    although the number of vaccines went up, the load on the immune system actually
    went down since the 1980s.

    I have to say, I’m happy that children are protected against
    more potentially dangerous diseases these days, and that we have the knowledge
    to prevent such potential killers as HiB, rotavirus, and HPV. I”m not sure
    why Ms. Dachel does not want our children protected.

    And of course there are studies on the cumulative effects
    of vaccines. Manufacturers have to do
    concomitant studies before putting a vaccine on the market – studies showing
    that it’s safe and effective with the rest of the schedule. Here is an example
    for the new – and hopefully coming – vaccine for strain B of
    meningococcal: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(12)61961-8/abstract. In other words, it’s examined in light of the full
    schedule.

    This is in Europe, but the
    same rules apply in the U.S.. This site explains that:

    http://www.vaccinateyourbaby.org/safe/autism/overburdening.cfm. This link also mentioned several studies determining that the
    entire schedule does not overwhelm a child’s immunity.

    Here is a link to a note describing multiple studies of the schedule. Let me provide it again. It focuses on autism and neuropsychological outcomes: https://www.facebook.com/notes/chillin-out-vaxin-relaxin-all-cool/too-many-too-soon-studies/501260426604553.

    The 2013 IOM report looked at all the studies in existence, compared them, evaluated them, and explained what
    they show about the entire schedule. A panel of experts selected for their
    independence from vaccine issues concluded: “The IOM committee
    uncovered no evidence of major safety concerns associated with adherence to the
    childhood immunization schedule.”http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2013/The-Childhood-Immunization-Schedule-and-Safety.aspx

  • Dorit Reiss

    Judge Mitting did not find there was no fraud. In fact, in his decision, he said: ‘At a press conference, which Professor Walker-Smith did not attend, convened to accompany publication, Dr. Wakefield stated publicly the view which he had previously expressed privately to Professor Walker-Smith that he could no longer support the giving of MMR vaccine. The joint view of Professor Walker-Smith and Dr. Murch, stated in a letter to Dr. Wakefield on 21st January 1998, was that it was inappropriate to emphasize the role of MMR vaccine in publicity about the paper and that they supported government policy concerning MMR until more firm evidence was available for them to see for themselves. They published a press release to coincide with publication stating their support for “present public health policy concerning MMR”. Dr. Wakefield’s statement and subsequent publicity had a predictable adverse effect upon the take up of MMR vaccine of great concern to those responsible for public health. There is now no respectable body of opinion which supports his hypothesis, that MMR vaccine and autism/enterocolitis are causally linked.”

    In other words, the claim was unsupported, and Wakefield misrepresented the finding in a press conference, against the will of his co-authors. Here: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2012/503.html

  • Dorit Reiss

    A
    list of names – without these people actually agreeing to be listed (“Not all
    the doctors or scientists listed here would want their names listed.”) – is not
    a substitute to evidence that vaccines are actually dangerous. You have brought
    none. If these people have concerns, what are they and what to they base those
    concerns? Just a list shows nothing.

    In
    addition, this list include many known anti-vaccination activists whose science
    is problematic at best and who have no expertise on vaccines – like Mayer
    Eisenstein, facing many malpractice suits for his problematic approach to
    evidence-based medicine, or Jay Gordon, who encouraged Jenny McCarthy’s belief
    that her son had autism (now she admits he does not) and that it was caused by
    vaccines, and Brian Hooker.

    There
    are a lot more than 200 studies looking at vaccine safety. There are thousands.
    They highlight the safety problems, and conclude clearly: vaccines are very,
    very safe, and the risks of not vaccinating much higher than the risks of
    vaccinating.

    You can find many of those studies in the CDC’s resource library, at:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/library/index.html

  • Dorit Reiss

    Hannah Poling was not compensated because the vaccines caused
    her to have autism. She had a rare mitochondrial disorder that anything could
    have triggered, causing a regression, including fever from a vaccine
    preventable disease. The government conceded it may have been the vaccines that
    triggered it but she was not compensated because vaccines caused autism. See: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/10/the-hannah-poling-case-and-the-rebrandin/

  • John Lockwood

    Nah, the judge just found that Professor Walker-Smith was an unwitting participant in the fraud, while performing some of the very painful procedures on the children, instead of being complicit.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I have not seen Bought, but the trailer suggests it’s another movie saying there is a grand conspiracy of pharmaceutical companies, which apparently conquered all the researchers and the governments in the world.

    The movie The Greater Good is anti-vaccine propaganda. It is
    structured around the stories of three suffering children and their families,
    presenting them as vaccine injuries – but upon close examination, there is no
    good evidence any of those children’s suffering was caused by a vaccine, and
    some evidence to the contrary: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/11/18/anti-vaccine-propaganda-lands-in-new-yor/.
    It then presents serious vaccine experts, like Dr. Paul Offit as equivalent to
    known anti-vaccine activists with no background in immunology, like Barbara Loe
    Fisher and other anti-vaccine activists, doing its best to paint a false
    picture that overestimates the dangers of vaccines. It is certainly not
    evidence of a link between vaccines and autism and does not counter the many
    studies debunking that link.

    Here is the court decision showing why the first story, Gabi
    Swank’s, was probably not from the vaccine: http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/gabrielle-swank-minor-and-through-her-natural-mother-and-next-friend-shannon-schrag-v-secretary-hea-0

  • Guest

    In none of the cases in Holland’s report was compensation
    awarded because a child’s autism was caused by vaccines – in all of them
    compensation was awarded for other reasons. With the rate of autism in the
    population, it’s hardly surprising that some of the children awarded
    compensation because vaccines may have caused their injury also had autism (to
    remind you, the NVICP has a reduced burden of proof and is very generous in
    compensating plaintiffs with problematic cases). In fact as this blog post
    calculates, the rate of children with autism compensated is pretty low: (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/when-you-cant-win-on-science-invoke-the-law-2/

  • Dorit Reiss

    In none of the cases in Holland’s report – the report discussed in this TV show – was compensation
    awarded because a child’s autism was caused by vaccines – in all of them
    compensation was awarded for other reasons. With the rate of autism in the
    population, it’s hardly surprising that some of the children awarded
    compensation because vaccines may have caused their injury also had autism (to
    remind you, the NVICP has a reduced burden of proof and is very generous in
    compensating plaintiffs with problematic cases). In fact as this blog post
    calculates, the rate of children with autism compensated is pretty low: (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/when-you-cant-win-on-science-invoke-the-law-2/

  • Dorit Reiss

    Not quite. If you are hurt by a vaccine, you go through a
    process that gives you very real advantages: you don’t have to show fault,
    which you normally would for a design defect; you do not have to show causation
    if you have a design injury; and you get lawyer fees even if you lose, which
    you would not in a regular court. The claim that people do not get their day in
    court is simply untrue; plaintiffs won about 27% in this court, compared to
    about 19% for product liability claim that are not asbestos. And plaintiff can
    appeal to the federal courts. In other words, it’s a very plaintiff-friendly
    process – and in spite of that, only 3400 have won, less than 0.03% of vaccine
    doses given. And it’s also inaccurate that there no ability to sue – which is
    not true: you can sue directly for manufacturing and warning defects, and you
    can appeal the NVICP decision to the court. In short, it’s just misleading.

    Here is my analysis of the comparison between the NVICP and
    regular courts: http://shotofprevention.com/2013/11/08/congressional-briefing-attempts-to-discredit-vaccine-injury-compensation/

  • Dorit Reiss

    Here is an explanation why this is
    neither necessary nor feasible: http://www.redwineandapplesauce.com/2013/12/21/the-one-study-or-why-the-anti-vaccine-movement-doesnt-really-understand-science/.

    In addition, some retrospective work
    was actually done. A large scale study in Germany compared to unvaccinated
    children, finding no difference except that unvaccinated children had higher
    rates of vaccine preventable diseases (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057555/). At least two
    studies compared children according to the rates of vaccines they receive. This
    study also included completely unvaccinated children: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/6/1134.abstract; and this
    one included children with very low levels of vaccination: http://jpeds.com/webfiles/images/journals/ympd/JPEDSDeStefano.pdf. No
    differences were found. This study addressed immunized and nonimmunized
    siblings of children with autism: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23045216 and
    concluded: “The rates of autism spectrum disorder diagnosis did not differ
    between immunized and nonimmunized younger sib groups, although small sample
    size limits interpretability of this result.”

    Given the work already done, if you want more retrospective
    studies, I think you need to
make a case why it is worth investing valuable
    dollars in this instead of other
things likes examining causes of autism
    supported by evidence – like genetic
factors and prenatal factors – or
    diverting money from services. Why is the work done insufficient? What’s the
    hypothesis to be studied, and what do we have suggesting it’s plausible? You’re
    calling for a very expensive study that will mean other things are not done. On
    a topic already studied extensively, with shifting hypotheses:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908388/. Why?

  • Dorit Reiss

    The
    National Vaccine Information Center, which in spite of its name is an
    anti-vaccination organization, has no experts in immunology. The vast majority
    of scientists and doctors point out that the risks of not vaccinating
    dramatically outweigh the risks of vaccinating. It’s not a good place to get
    your vaccine information.

    See, for example, NVIC’s discussion of measles: http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/Measles.aspx.

    Of the MMR viruses, measles is the most serious in the sick -
    with about one in a thousand dead, and one in a thousand suffering
    encephalitis, and relatively high rates of other complications – pneumonia and
    ear infection that can lead to deafness. Rubella can kill the unborn or leave
    them with severe disabilities – though it is mild in children. But here is why
    NVIC is a bad source, and how it misleads: it lists MMR complications as well
    as diseases, but does not point out their relative frequency. With
    encephalitis, for example, having a frequency of one in a thousand from measles
    and less than one in a million from MMR, that is a significant omission. http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/D35CD18A3985212ECA2574E2000F9A4F/$File/quick_sideeffects.pdf.

    Then, they present claims filed through the National Vaccine
    Injury Compensation Program – not claims compensated, i.e., not those that
    could actually show the vaccine caused their injury. So their numbers also
    include cases that could not win even under the program’s lenient standards of
    proof – claims that were probably not from the vaccine.

    Their next set of numbers draws on VAERS reports. But VAERS is a
    passive reporting system – anyone can report anything (a physician once
    reported that the influenza vaccine turned him into the incredible hulk, and it
    was accepted) and research suggests most reports are not caused by the
    vaccine: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23063829. So presenting VAERS
    numbers as if they show how many serious events the vaccine actually caused is
    misleading.

    They end by saying vaccinated people can still get the disease -
    I’m looking at measles – which is true, but they don’t say how often, and
    that’s important here because two doses of MMR offer long term protection to
    99% of people against measles. http://www.cdc.gov/Mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00053391.htm.

    See also this post, analyzing the inaccuracies in NVIC’s recent
    billboard campaign: http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2013/03/nvic-know-omissions.html.

    In short, the NVIC
    information is presented in a way that might mislead the reader to
    underestimate the risks of the disease, overestimate the risks of the vaccine,
    and underestimate its effectiveness. This type of problematic presentation is
    why NVIC is a really bad place to get your vaccine information.

  • TrueStory

    This is perfect.

  • Dorit Reiss

    When a parent makes a choice for a child, the state has all the rights to step in and protect the child against a parent’s decision to leave that child exposed to preventable diseases, to risks to her health and life. Especially if the parent’s decision is based on misinformation, like claiming – against the evidence – that vaccines cause asthma, peanut allergy, autism, and seizure disorder – none of which is true. The child has a right to health.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Ms. Parker’s daughter has been self-diagnosed by her with encephalitis after the fact. There is no medical evidence to this alleged medical emergency (that is not, by the way, listed as an adverse reaction to the Hepatitis B – see the CDC’s Pink Book). She thinks it because the baby cried.
    Since there is no credible evidence supporting the claim that vaccines cause autism, and plenty of evidence on the other side, we know that autism is not caused by vaccines.

  • TrueStory

    It sounds like you are speaking without any biological, medical, or immunological knowledge. Please stop sharing untruths.

  • TrueStory

    It is typical to detect autism around 18 months. This is not causation. There is no mercury in vaccines. There is so much money and time wasted on autism relating to vaccines instead of autism and other causation (flame retardant chemicals in clothing, other environmental hazards, chemical exposures, smog, antibiotics in water supply, and on and on). Accept that scientists have not found a link and let’s all push our money and focus towards finding an ANSWER instead of backing up and running into the same brick wall!

  • LizP

    In studying “hundreds of thousands” of vaccinated children, you miss two very critical points. 1. There is absolutely no control group (all were vaccinated), and 2. Where a small sub-population carries a higher risk of injury – their signal is lost in the noise of the masses. The studies that should be done, to exonerate vaccines have been avoided like the Plague. There is Science, and then there is the “science” sought by those scared to see the results of properly controlled and well planned Science. Anyone who shouts, “the science is in,” is no scientist – the first rule of Science is to question Science…

  • Carl

    This is a load of lies. You are combining smaller details from a few different vaccines, combining them into false claims, and then extrapolating.

    The fact is that most vaccines work very well. Live vaccines can cause illness, but they are usually only used to save money in 3rd-world locations where the endemic disease rate is so absurdly high that the miniscule odds of getting a disease from vaccines is meaningless.

    Most vaccines, particularly in areas where the diseases are not running rampant anymore (or maybe “yet”, thanks to people like you), are not live cell versions. You can’t get an infection from a killed cell or a protein shell particle.

  • victorpavlovic

    Actually, ccdaddy is 100% correct, he has done his homework, I suggest you do the same.

  • victorpavlovic

    Dorit Reiis, once again protecting her funding, (BIG Pharma), while at the same time ignoring, and promoting further devastation on our children.

  • victorpavlovic

    When did they remove mercury from the flu shot that is recommended to pregnant woman? it was just in yesterday.

  • victorpavlovic

    All that means is that there is likely something wrong with your parents, it doesn’t mean that vaccines don’t cause autism.

  • victorpavlovic

    Because you are right Maurine, there is definitely a link, if there wasn’t you wouldn’t see so many hired shills protecting vaccines and their employers.

  • victorpavlovic

    John, it was a simple question, yes they should be held accountable as with any other drug.

  • victorpavlovic

    John, just because you say there is no link to autism doesn’t mean there isn’t one because you are defending drug companies. The Tobacco industry kept saying for years that there was no link to cancer for years as well, and of course there was.

  • victorpavlovic

    The evidence is very clear, you are defending drug companies.

  • victorpavlovic

    No studies to show vaccine safety, just lip service from shills.

  • victorpavlovic

    Translation to your comment, the immune system has been devastated by vaccine overload.

  • victorpavlovic

    Its vaccines.

  • victorpavlovic

    Let me guess, you want us to look at thousands of even more genetic studies, and waste another thirty years, your pretty sad when that’s all you got to say.

  • Jon W

    What’s that line about a little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing? Yes, mercury is, in multi-dose, flu vaccines in the preservative Thiomersal. But, it’s ethylmercury. That means the human body can easily metabolize it and excrete it without the bio-accumulation needed for heavy metal poisoning.

    Formaldehyde exists in trace amounts in vaccines. But you forget the fact that formaldehyde is a natural enzyme in the human body – it’s required for DNA and amino acid synthesis. An infant’s body contains about 5 times more formaldehyde than a vaccine.

    As to your first point, no, the inflammation is not often excessive. Inflammation beyond the local injection site is rare. And the relative difference between two types of T-helper cells is way overblown. The body of existing literature does not support this fear mongering.

  • Jon W

    The body of evidence supporting vaccine safety stands whether you want to read it or not. Facts are stubborn things.

  • victorpavlovic

    without the vaccine she would have not got autism as a result at that ‘moment’, so then it was the vaccine and they compensated the family.

  • Jon W

    A fine example of motivated reasoning. A long and nuanced comment is glibly, and incorrectly, summed up to fit your existing ideology.

  • victorpavlovic

    Of course the court doesn’t rule on causation, do you think they want to spread the word that their vaccines cause certain conditions, or death? what did you think they’d say?

  • Jon W

    Let me help: It(‘)s (not) vaccines.

    There you go, accurate and grammatically correct sentence.

  • Jon W

    Against untrue and ignorant accusations, yes.

  • Jon W

    VICP exists to protect and families and drug companies. Families do not have to sue a large corporation with massive legal resources. They simply have to show that a table injury occurred in the proper timeline after a vaccine. No need to prove causation or fault. X happened after Y within Z timeline. No fault. Drug companies are protected from frivolous lawsuits.

    Regardless of what AoA says, a table injury compensation does not indicate fault or causation.

  • Jon W

    When the facts aren’t on your side, just attack everyone as a pharma-shill.

    The massive body of literature is there if you bother to look.

  • Jon W

    True, the tobacco industry held the line. But the scientific literature had been showing the opposite for years.

    Your analogy is completely unwarranted here. The body of evidence, yes – independent evidence, supports the safety of vaccines.

  • Jon W

    Hired shills? Tell me where to sign up. I’m wasting a Sunday morning doing this for free.

    And really, do you want to ask question motivations because of pay checks? In that case, we can disregard all the comments from the media editor of AoA.

  • Jon W

    John L and Dorit R spoke to this better than I could.

    You don’t need to invoke a conspiracy theory when the massive body of publicly accessible knowledge will do.

  • Jon W

    So, in essence, the court doesn’t do what the above comment suggested it does.

    Conspiracy theories like this are interesting. There is no fact can’t be explained away as part of the conspiracy.

  • Jon W

    More personal attacks. I’m seeing a trend here.

  • victorpavlovic

    This is just obvious, there is no other motive other than going against vaccine injured children and defending vaccines that make many that way, why not say lets make the vaccines safer, this is what parents want since after all vaccines are being forced down everyone’s throats without any concern for those that are vaccine injured, just lies, more lies and further denials.

  • victorpavlovic

    Its not a conspiracy theory, all the information is freely available, if you chose to read it.

  • Jon W

    Assuming the motives of other people, people you’ve never met, is not a solid foundation for an argument.

    Facts are. Facts support the safety of vaccines. Facts don’t support a need to push for safer vaccines. Adverse side effects do occur, but very rarely. VICP has been established so that a (relatively easy) legal process is there for families.

    There are lies – just look at AoA.

    There are denies – just look to your own comments.

  • victorpavlovic

    And then there are people as yourself, that don’t care about vaccine injured children, we call them deniers as well!

  • Jon W

    So what’s your excuse? The scientific literature has spoken.

  • Jon W

    Assuming the motivations of others – unwise.

    I care about vaccine injuries. I’m glad that VICP exists and that we as Americans all pay into it to compensate the injured.

    I also care about a population of unvaccinated people getting sick themselves and spreading disease. I care about infants to young to be innoculated. I care about the immuno-compromised who can’t be innuculated.

    Its about risk-benefit. The risk of vaccines is small. The benefit is great – for both the individual getting the vaccine and everyone they come in contact with.

  • Maurinemeleck

    plaintiff friendly? hahaha. Guess you have never been to Vaccine Court. But then what trolls have?

  • Maurinemeleck

    there is a link and vaccine makers and doctors who give them should all be held accoiuntable for injury.

  • Jon W

    You keep claiming insider knowledge, but other than referencing a grandson you have provided no insight.

    And yes, VICP is plaintiff friendly compared to the alternative. You don’t have to prove fault, causation, or go one on one against large corporations.

  • Jon W

    Again, no proof of a link and the body of literature showing no link (yes, those are two different questions).

    As far as accountability, the standard of evidence in VICP forces companies to be accountable when no such fault is proven.

  • John Lockwood

    Isn’t possible someone did not side with a fraudulent study? Especially since it promoted the endangerment of millions of lives, isn’t it possible they would same something?

  • Maurinemeleck

    You have to prove fault and causation. stop making up stories. It’s not a real court as it’s made up of government employees. so long troll.

  • Jon W

    All courts are made up of government employees – judges, prosecutors, public defenders, bailiffs, etc.

  • ciaparker2

    In nothing you said did you say that Judge Mitting concurred that the Lancet article on the case study of the children becoming autistic within days of the MMR was untrue. He said that the findings had been accurately reported, the children really had developed autism and bowel disease within days of the MMR. The political ramifications were such that some professionals would say that the MMR should continue to be given to all children regardless of the permanent damage inflicted on some, but the appalling numbers of the vaccine-damaged now, millions worldwide, one in thirty now in the U.S., would seem to indicate that this opinion formed fifteen years ago would bear reconsideration.

  • ciaparker2

    We know the cause of autism. If you read even one of the many excellent books on the subject, like Vaccine Epidemic, Evidence of Harm, Eisenstein’s Make an Informed Vaccine Decision, Converse’s When Your Doctor is Wrong Autism & the Hepatitis-B Vaccine, anything by Neil Miller, crammed with scientific, epidemiological and personal evidence from thousands of medical professionals and vaccine-damaged famlies, then you would know too. If you don’t , you will continue not to know until it happens to you.

  • ciaparker2

    You just think it’s rare because that it the current popular pharma meme. Harris Coulter said that everyone in the post-WWII generation had been at least minimally brain-damaged by the DPT vaccine, and many, of course, maximally damaged. Dr. Sears says that vaccine encephalitis is fairly common, but only damaging when it goes on for several days. My daughter screamed for four days and nights after the hep-B vax at birth, and that long is certainly damaging to the brain. Converse’s son screamed for longer than that. Belkin’s baby only screamed a few hours before being killed by the vaccine. School nurse Patti White testified before Congress that her association had reluctantly accepted that the hep-B vaccine for newborns given since 1991 was responsible for the tremendous upsurge in autistic kindergartners hitting Missour schools from 1996 on The symptoms of vaccine encephalitis are prolonged, inconsolable screaming, which medical professionals are programmed to dismiss as colic which never occurs in the first week, as in my and Convrse’s children, but only starts in the third week: now medical professionals have taken to revising the old definition of colic to stretch into the first week so that they can dismiss hep-B vaccine encephalitis. Encephalitis can manifest as excessive somnolence or staring episodes (petit mal seizures). Now tell me, how many large-scale studies have been done on hundreds of thousands of babies vaxed with a dangerous, useless vaccine on the first day of life, without permission in most cases, doing brain scans every day for a month post-vax to see if they have reacted with vaccie encephalitis? How many parents are aware that if their baby screams for even three hours straight, it is a medical emergency, and they should rush to the ER? Dr. Sears says there is no treatment for vaccine reactions, but it’s good to get documentation for your case in kangaroo Vaccne Court. .

  • ciaparker2

    So read Dr. Mayer Eisenstein’s Make an Informed Vaccine Decision, with citations of hundreds of scientific studies of many kinds, proving how severe and how common vaccine damage is. The body of evidence supports widespread vaccine devastation. Dr. Eisenstein has had something like 40,000 children in his practice over forty years, unvaccinated or minimally vaccinated, with not a single case of autism among them.

  • ciaparker2

    Judge Mitting found that the facts had been accurately reported, and that the GMC had used “shallow reasoning to reach false conclusion.” He mandated that a legal board be included in future disciplinary proceedings to avoid the abuses of the Lancet case. There was no fraud, it was just a political minefield unsuspected at the time by the doctors involved: how could they suspect that pointing out that a number of children had regressed into autism and developed bowel disease within days of the MMR could trigger such a massive witch hunt of the honest doctors? They didn’t even say that it was certain or proven, they just said that it was a possibility that should be explored further. And since that time, hundreds of thousands of children who got the MMR have experienced EXACTLY the same thing, regression into autism and bowel disease within days of the MMR. Inappropriate to emphasize the role of MMR publicly? That just means that they didn’want the public to know the facts, as that would mean widespread rejection of the MMR, and they preferred disabling children for life to allowing the return of a disease which, in the U.K. in the ’80s, caused the death of one or two in every ten thousand who got measles.
    Dorit, tell me exactly what you mean by Dr. Wakefield’s “fraud,” and I will tell you why your judgment is incorrect. This is a formal challenge.

  • victorpavlovic

    So read it, there is plenty out there to prove my point!

  • Jon W

    It doesn’t matter what one or two people, even physicians and researchers, say. The body of evidence is what matters.

    Individual stories, though compelling narratives, are not compelling evidence.

    The body of evidence is conclusive and supports vaccine safety.

  • Jon W

    What you accept as evidence isn’t compelling. Low quality studies, anecdotes, appeals to authority.

  • Jon W

    All great examples of how quality scientific research is not done.

  • victorpavlovic

    And the same can be said of your rigged big pharma research.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Actually, what the comment explains is that the load on the immune system is lower today than it was in the 1980s. I’m sorry that was unclear.

  • Dorit Reiss

    You can find a selection of the many, many studies examining vaccine safety on the CDC resource library, here:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/library/index.html.

    No, it’s not that the CDC did all the studies; they just collect them. Hope that helps.

  • Jon W

    Again with the big pharma conspiracy.

    When the evidence doesn’t support you, just charge them with vague accusations of fraudulent research.

    You want people to believe you, show the fraud like Brian Deer did in the Jan 2011 BMJ.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Jon explained to you that when the government conceded a table injury in the time frame, causation was assumed. The court did not rule on causation because – a.the law says it’s assumed for table injuries. b. this was a consent decree.

  • victorpavlovic

    Your Deer Brian is the Fraud.

  • Dorit Reiss

    It’s not clear that without the vaccines she would not have had her autistic-like symptoms. Without the vaccine, a different fever could have caused her regression. Here is what the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation stated: (http://www.umdf.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=jtJWJaMMIsE&b=4090185&ct=5315363&notoc=1)

    “There are no scientific studies documenting that childhood vaccinations cause mitochondrial diseases or worsen mitochondrial disease symptoms. In the absence of scientific evidence, the UMDF cannot confirm any association between mitochondrial diseases and vaccines.”

  • Jon W

    So prove it.

    BD laid out in detail the case against AW.

    Now your turn.

  • victorpavlovic

    That is the typical shill side, Dr.Wakefield will have his day in court as well.

  • victorpavlovic

    She wouldn’t have got it at that ‘moment’, as I said previously, sure down the line anything could happen, but I wasn’t implying that.

  • Jon W

    And again with the pharma shill gambit. There really is no content to your arguments, if the word can be stretched to include your comments.

    As far as Wakefield goes, he already has. His license was revoked.

  • victorpavlovic

    It wouldn’t take much for Dr.Wakefield to get his license back here in the US anyway, and the day will come for that as well.

  • Jon W

    Except that he never had a license in the US.

  • Jon W

    Eisenstein has a clever marketing strategy, poor science, and quite the malpractice record.

  • Jon W

    He falsified evidence to support his conclusion.

    Sorry, didn’t mean to interrupt. You were formally challenging DR in the comments section of a website.

  • ciaparker2

    He falsified nothing, and Judge Mitting examined the evidence, and concluded that it was accurate and accurately recorded. That it was the GMC which had behaved abusively.
    Don’t give it another thought. I just hope she picks up the glove I have flung down. And this war is being primarily waged in the comment section of different articles, why do you think Big Pharma has gone to so much trouble to get spokespeople to defend it there?

  • victorpavlovic

    And that’s why I said that for that reason, not (over-there) England but back-here in the US where he resides now.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    While not funny, I do agree that ccdaddy’s posting was a joke.

    One example:
    “Who inject, heavy metals and toxins in babies”

    Remind us, what is a toxin?
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/toxin

    Right, just like all the other times there are no toxins in vaccines.

    We can go line by line throught the postings but why bother, there is nothing rational or anything that stands up to any fact-checking.

    W&N

  • Carl

    He “did his homework” probably by reading garbage from Mercola, Mike Adams, and other loons.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Remarkable,

    Your link is to a “journal” created for students to practice writing and editing. Wow this is the best you have got….
    http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/pelr/about.html

    Good news: the court has been 100% clear on this issue:

    “The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered to compensate,
    any case based on a determination that autism was actually caused by vaccines.”

    At this point it is impossible to honestly believe the anti-vaccs.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Thanks for the irony….

    On a site on for ethics you engage in ad hominem attack.

    Thanks, this is very revealing.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Healy was a clinician, a cardiologist. The rational way to pursuit this knowledge is with qualified scientists….funny how you avoid real scientists….again very revealing.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Here is the SCOTUS ruling:
    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf

    Well look at that…they didn’t rule that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe….they were completely clear that none of the vaccines our children receive are unavoidably unsafe.

    Bottom line is that anyone that spends a few mins with Google can see that basically everything you posted here is false.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    I agree that there is no doubt:

    “The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered to compensate,
    any case based on a determination that autism was actually caused by vaccines.”

    There is a reason why you didn’t post any court documents to support your assertion that there are
    many cases where courts have determined that vaccines causes autism….

    “The CDC has recently released Thomas Verstraeten’s study on 40,000 babies in the 1990s who got mercury-containing vaccines: there was a relative risk of autism of 7.6, with 2.0 being enough to show a causal relationship in a court of law.”

    This is a complete fabrication. All the anti-vaccs are doing is recycling for their own profits old nonsense about the study.

    Good news: there are literally millions of statisticians that can explain in detail exactly how the anti-vaccs are entirely untruthful about the study. One simply has to care about the truth…

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Depends which country you are talking about.

    There are a number of countries that removed 100% of thimerosal from their vaccines.

    We know have many years of data on millions of kids that have received zero thimerosal.

    Remind us again: why don’t the anti-vaccs care about this data?

    Thanks,

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Again,
    Unable to articulate anything rational to support your POV, you are reduced to ad
    hominem attack.

    Great irony and very revealing about you.
    Thanks,
    W&N

  • Jon W

    Judge Mitting ruled that Walker-Smith, a co-author, had done nothing wrong. He did not rule on Wakefield.

    Ha, big pharma paying people to post comments. You seem to know a lot about this. Please tell me where I can sign up – I’ve got loans to pay.

  • Jon W

    So, if he had had a US license it would be easier to get back. I’d like to see him try to get a medical license in the US.

    How many fantasy what-ifs should we play out here?

  • TTurtle

    I was quite interested in the vaccines which are produced from cells derived from aborted Human Foetuses.
    I was not aware there were any vaccinations made this way!
    Some of the vaccinations along with Chickenpox referred to in the video which Catholics are also concerned with Hepatitis-A, Measles, Mumps,Rubella As for the combination DTaP +Polio+HiB there is an ethical vaccine for the DTaP +Polio and another vaccine for HiB.

    The Catholic viewpoint according to the Catholic Medical Association is:

    When alternative vaccines are available, they must be used in place of those produced by immoral means. When no alternative is available, it is right to abstain from using these vaccines if it can be done without causing children, and indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health. This is on a temporary basis and it is a moral duty to continue to fight and employ every lawful means to make ethical alternatives available. Pontifical Academy for Life (PAFL; “Moral Reflections on Vaccines Prepared from Cells Derived from Aborted Human Foetuses” )

    I feel it is best to get these vaccinations for the safety of children and the general public, but to be aware of the ethical questions involved in the creation of these vaccinations.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Vaccines are not “one size fits all”:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/child-adolescent.html

    Compensation clearly doesn’t mean vaccination caused the problems:
    http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters

    The only thing here remotely “evil” are completely clueless folks trying to give medical advice.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Gosh Vic,

    Since the claim that these children were injured by vaccinations is a fraud your arguments are completely bogus.

    Fortunately almost all parents can immediately see the absurdity of your postings.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    We are so very lucky,

    The SCOTUS ruling and the compensation site are all easy to find:
    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf

    http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

    And they both clearly explain in simple, basic words how all US families have the right to sue in Civil court for alleged vaccine injuries.

    More to the point there is now a significant body of court rulings:
    E.g. http://mdcourts.gov/opinions/coa/2009/112a08.pdf

    Where the courts detail how the anti-vaccs are just a fraud.

    So I guess it is no surprise that the anti-vaccs assert that one can’t sue/there is no accountability….anyone that reads the decisions can’t help but have contempt for the anti-vaccs.

    W&N

  • ciaparker2

    Not easily metabolized by everyone. Many have a genetic predisposition to store it in the brain. Many autististic children have tested extremely high in mercury, only source for their high levels the vaccines they got. The CDC just released Verstraeten’s original study on 40,000 children in the ’90s who got mercury-containing vaccines, there was a 7.6 relative risk of autism for those who did, when .2.0 is enough to prove a causal relationship in a court of law.
    I think I already answered this, but it’s hard to tell quickly what may have been taken down. You don’t have any idea how common vaccine encephalitis is, because no one has ever done a brain scan every day for a month post-vax on a group of several hunded thousand vaxed children, which would be the only way to tell. Dr. Sears says it is common, but that it doesn’t usuall last long enough to cause permanent damage. My baby screamed for four days post-vax, and I guess that was long enough to have caused her autism, as well as that of Ben Converse

  • ciaparker2

    The body of evidence certainly is conclusive, and the body of evidence brought to us by those few scientists without vested interests in vaccine companies conclusively establishes that vaccines are devastatingly dangerous. Yeah, a hundred thousand parents can show you videos of their children before and after the vax that disabled him forever within days, and yeah, all you have to do is say No, it didn’t. That’s no proof at all. In fact, there IS nothing that could ever prove that any vaccine has ever done any harm to anyone. Yeah, right.

  • ciaparker2

    They are stubborn things, which is why your hair is on fire, as J.B.Handley said, and it’s unfortunately extremely hard to make parents believe it wasn’t the vaccines that destroyed their children when we saw it happen.

  • ciaparker2

    You obviously have not read his extremey impressive book Make an Informed Vaccine Decision, actually rather dry as it is stuffed cover to cover with scientific citations and summaries of hundreds of studies, all proving the myriad ways in which vaccines wreak their damage. Sound like sour grapes to me, he has no heritage patients with autism among his 40,000 and counting patients. I read of a malpractice suit brought against a physician in his practice who didn’t transport a woman in labor at home to a hospital quickly enough to avoid the child’s death. All I can say is that anyone can make mistakes in judgment, that’s why physicians carry malpractice insurance, and it wasn’t Dr. Eisenstein, but another doctor in his practice. As though that’s going to disprove his extremely convincing tour de force? The shill’s cheat sheet has Lupron on it as the next card to play. Go ahead.

  • ciaparker2

    Wakefield was not part of the lawsuit, as his insurance would not pay for him to do so. Judge MItting ruled that there had been nothing fraudulent about the case series written up in the Lancet, which Dr. Wakefield had Dr. Walker-Smith’http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2014/01/24/january-17-2014-vaccination-scare/21735/#comment-1217766620s concurrence and permission to do.

    If you need the money that much, maybe you might talk with you-know-who, I’m sure she can help you find the appropriate channels.

  • Jon W

    Are you talking about the Verstraeten study from 2001 that found a potential link, or the larger study in 2003 in which he was unable to replicate the results?

    As far as vaccine encephalitis goes, you’re appealing to the claims of Sears. But you just said the evidence doesn’t exist because no one gets daily ‘brain scan’s. No one does that because the evidence doesn’t support the inquiry.

  • Jon W

    My hair is on fire? I don’t follow.

    Luckily for the rest of us the beliefs of a few individuals do not make fact.

  • Jon W

    No. He ruled that Walker-Smith had not committed fraud. He ruling did not speak to anything else other than WS’s conduct.

    The ruling is publicly accessible if you want to read it.

  • ciaparker2

    The shills at Simpsonwood figured out how to dilute the significance of his study, which is what you’re referring to as the larger study in 2003. I’m referring to the original one, pre-dilution, which the CDC had sequestered out of public view until now, because it proved that mercury in vaccines caused autism. This one: http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/00mmdd_EISAbstractSubmission_IncreasedRiskOfDevelopmentalNeurologicImpairmentAfterHighExposureToThimerosal-containingVaccine_.pdf

  • ciaparker2

    So doctors just ignore the prolonged, inconsolable screaming of vaxed infants because they know perfectly well that it means encephalitis, and just brush it off as colic. What parents don’t know can’t hurt the doctors, right?

  • Jon W

    40,000 and no autism, huh? Too bad he’s never published the study he’s done to prove this.

    It almost sounds made up. But to be charitable, let’s call it confirmation bias.

  • Jon W

    Ah, so if you only listen to the evidence from those claiming that vaccines are dangerous . . . . well, look at that, it looks like it’s true.

    The problem is that you’re rigging the system by only including research that already agrees with you.

    Maybe try judging research by it’s rigor instead.

  • Jon W

    And again, it’s a conspiracy of shills.

  • ciaparker2

    Are we projecting here? I would have said, if I were impolite enought to do so, that it is you who are rigging the system by only including evidence which supports vaccine safety. You haven’t looked at the rigorous studies cited in The Age of Autism by Burbacher and Noble, two of hundreds who have demonstrated the dangers of vaccines.

  • Jon W

    So you’re claiming that their is a conspiracy of pediatricians not to give ‘brain scans’ because of crying, because, you claim, they know it’s encephalitis?

    Do you have any ideas that don’t require a massive conspiracy?

  • ciaparker2

    Many of his patients are Amish, his practice is in Chicago. Most Amish do not vaccinate, which is why among their unvaccinated majority, there is not a single case of autism, except for one boy who lives near a mercury-producing electrical plant. He’s probably grown by now, I should call him a young man. But be that as it may, unvaccinated people who come from an unvaccinated family simply do not have autism (unless they live near a source of potent mercury pollution). At the time Rainman came out in the late ’80s, doctors were told that they were unlikely to ever see a single autistic patient in their entire careers, autism was so rare (two or three in every 10,000 according to several epidemiological studies done in the U.K. and the U.S.). Once they quadrupled the amount of mumps virus in the MMR in 1990, adding the Hib in 1987, and the hep-B at birth in 1991, we saw the autism epidemic take off, starting the unceasing upward spiral we are so familiar with today. See Evidence of Harm on how the CDC hid the sudden surge in autism in Brick Township after 1990.

  • ciaparker2

    Look at this article:

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/09/autism-not-really-on-the-rise-967-impossible.html
    A meticulous study done in North Dakota in 1987 found that there were 330 children per million with autism. Today, with 1 in 30 kids in the US with autism (see recent Minnesota study on Somali kids/general population with autism, it surprised no one that vaccinated Somali kids had the highest rate of autism in the world, but it surprised everyone that native American kids were one in thirty), that would be 33,333 kids out of every million with autism.

  • ciaparker2

    A reference to this article:

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/03/tinderbox-us-vaccine-fears-up-700-in-7-years.html
    Handley says that in 7 years parents’ fear of vaccines causing autism ( a totally justified fear) had gone up 700%, and that the vaccine companies had their hair on fire from panic at how to keep their gravy train rolling and save their billions, in the face of parent activists like me informing the public.

  • Jon W

    Parent’s fears do not real things make. This is just an argument ad populum.

  • ciaparker2

    Jenny McCarthy has NEVER said that Evan did not have autism, but rather says that she has recovered him through biomedical DAN protocols. Evan was diagnosed by the finest autism specialists at UCLA. I read Louder Than Words, and his echolalia, lack of understanding of the nature of questions and how to answer them, his pronoun reversal, his stims and perseveration, were just like my daughter, just like most autistic children. My daughter did not have the horrifying seizures that he had, which doctors were powerless to understand or treat appropriately, but they both were definitely autistic. The problem is that it’s so important for your side to discredit both her and the possibility of recovery offered by understanding the ways in which vaccines did the damage and how it might be corrected, that BP will spend big bucks hiring people to drag the bearers of important tidings through the mud and whip the masses into a homicidal frenzy, just to keep that gravy train rolling down the tracks.

  • ciaparker2

    Projecting again, Jon.

  • ciaparker2

    I have read it. And don’t forget Dr. Murch. The other doctors who caved under pressure of having their licenses revoked if they did not recant their heretical observations of fact did not count, since they were absolved and accepted back into the fold by the Holy Inquisition, oops, GMC.

  • ciaparker2

    Gotta go, Jon, I have to get supper ready. Otherwise I”d be glad to go on all night. I’ll be back tomorrow when I’m free.

  • Jon W

    So to back up the claims of a single physician in the Chicago area you cite a study completed in North Dakota?

    Also, I keep seeing this 1:30 number but never have I seen a citation for it.

  • Dorit Reiss

    You’re actually right, that Jenny did not retract the claim. Nonetheless, Jay Gordon is known for his anti-vaccine stance, including encouraging parents not to vaccinate, against the evidence. Jenny McCarthy’s relevance here is her willingness to promote the misinformation about vaccines. i’d like to refer readers to this excellent interview with Evan’s grandmother, disproving that connection: http://autism-news-beat.com/archives/2310

  • Jon W

    You’ve read it? So you know that in the conclusion there is no mention of Wakefield at all.

    It’s as if this ruling has nothing to do with him.

  • John Lockwood

    “several personal stories from vaccine victims” that is not scientific research.
    To “Know” something without any evidence is called faith, that’s something you do for your religious deities, not medicine.

  • ciaparker2

    I actually think it’s more that they’re terrified, knowing from The Wakefield Story what will happen to them if they cross pharma interests, and realize that they’d better keep their heads down if they want to keep them. I was pointing out the foolishness of your appearing to think that they have never looked for evidence of there being no vaccine-induced encephalitis, certainly not any causing the autism epidemic, although the latter coincided with the vaccine epidemic, because it’s so obvious that there is simply no relationship. Why look for what you “know” is not there? Beyond that, there is definitely a conspiracy between BP, the medical establishment, the mainstream media, and government agencies to maintain the status quo of vax the ### out of every child in America, do your part to help American business grow, and just think of all the businesses that will spring up to meet the needs of the ever-growing population of those disabled by vaccines. And all the pediatricians throwing patients out if they do not submit to their draconian vaccine schedule is clearly contemptible, morons with a H– complex.

  • John Lockwood

    So, none have autism except for some, but those are really mercury poisoning instead… The doctor seems willing to mis-diagnose on purpose to support his bias.

  • ciaparker2

    I do beg your pardon. On looking it up, I find that it’s one in 36 white children, one in 32 Somali children in Minnesota.Someone tinkered with some numbers, in 2008 it was one in 28 Somali children with autism (versus none back in unvaccinated Somalia).

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/12/16/study-autism-high-in-minneapolis-somali-children/
    That being said, Dr. Wakefield in a lecture last spring said that the rate was now one in 25 children. For a condition as devastating as autism, a lifelong disability which prevents most from ever being able to communicate normally or live independently, a condition that was inexistent a hundred years ago (well, a handful reacted to the smallpox vaccine with it), that was two or three in 10,000 in the ’70s, and now we’re quibbling about whether it’s one in 25 or one in 36, this could only happen in a world ruled by uthless Pharma Titans.

  • Jon W

    Got it, thanks.

    The 1 in 30 has been used a lot in postings here, but it’s being used inaccurately. That number describes the Somali population in Minn – not generalizable to the US population, as the authors of the study note.

    Has Wakefield published the results of his study claiming 1:25, or is this another press conference remark?

    It matters greatly what the incidence and prevalence of a disease are. Especially when expanding definitions and increased screening are taken into account.

  • Jon W

    The lesson of Wakefield is what will happen if you 1) tamper with records in medical trials, 2) subject patients to needless invasive procedures, 3) neglect to disclose your conflicts of interest.

    And with the conspiracy that there “definitely” is, any evidence? Or is the lack of evidence your evidence?

  • Jon W

    So only pharma companies can be charged with a profit motive?

  • JohnDStone

    Let us be clear. Judge Mitting had one issue over reporting in the Wakefield Lancet paper, and this was over the statement of ethical approval which Prof Walker-Smith says he did not see. However, the statement on re-visiting is unexceptionable:

    “Ethical approval and consent

    “Investigations
    were approved by the Ethical Practices Committee of the Royal Free
    Hospital NHS Trust, and parents gave informed consent”

    So, all it is saying is that the investigations had ethical approval (which they did). It was a boring factual statement. The paper did not require ethical approval, did not have it and no such claim was made – so no fraud. I do recall pointing this out to Dorit Reiss some months ago in the Examiner.

  • ciaparker2

    Tell me what record was tampered with. The case series had received approval from the hospital, and the Lancet article did not need any permission to be published. Judge Mitting found that the information recorded on the children was accurate. There was no tampering on the part of Dr. Wakefield or his colleagues. Needless invasive procedures? The children had developed bowel disease shortly after the MMR, and their parents had taken them to Dr. Wakefield as an expert in the field. They agreed with the examinations he carried out in an attempt to diagnose and arrive at a treatment plan for their children, and continue to be grateful for his concerned and considerate treatment of their children. He needed blood samples from a control group to compare with those from the affected children. He asked for and got permission from the parents of some children who came to his son’s birthday party to ask them to give a blood sample, and he paid them for doing so. He did not take any blood from any unwilling participant, and the blood was taken by a medical professional using standard procedures. Do you know of a better way to get blood samples from healthy controls?

  • ciaparker2

    As for conflicts of interest, Dr. Wakefield’s hospital knew of the 55,000 pounds he had received to conduct a study for the class action suit regarding vaccines and autism. It was a research grant from which he personally received no compensation. Dr. Wakefield did not start the study until after the case series for the Lancet 12 had been submitted. Legal documents proved that his hospital knew of the study and the amount of money involved, most of which was used to pay the salary of a lab technician. Dr. Wakefield disclosed in a newspaper interview over a year before the publication of the 1998 article that he was working with the litigators. Dr. Horton of The Lancet had been informed as to Dr. Wakefield’s role in the vaccine related lawsuit.

  • ciaparker2

    As for the conspiracy, where does one even begin on something this huge, this earth-shattering? One could begin by the Wakefield debacle being discussed now. Doctors pointed out that a number of children had developed autism and bowel disease shortly after getting the MMR, and published an article on their findings. Rather than the scientific world being startled by the evidence that a presumably benign intervention like vaccines might instead cause permanent disability in some (many) cases, and setting to work to research the topic as was suggested at the end of the Lancet article, vaccine companies realized they’d better draw and quarter him in public to show all doctors and researchers what will happen to them if they dare to voice any criticism of vaccines. And governments worldwide as well as the mainstream media, large shareholders in vaccine companies in many cases, chose to take the part of the vaccine companies rather than that of the damaged famlies. Or read Evidence of Harm for details on how the CDC collaborated in hiding the evidence of the vaccine epidemic starting in 1988 suddenly causing numerous cases of autism in Brick Township, from zero in the late ’80s, to dozens thereafter. And how the CDC blocked the investigations into computer databases of researchers trying to investigate the subject. Simpsonwood, at which reps of Big Pharma met to figure out how to hide Verstraeten’s proof that mercury-containing vaccines caused autism. The Ely Lilly Rider, mysteriiously put into a Homeland Security bill to shield vaccine manufacturers. There are hundreds of other examples it would be easy to cite, but I am limited in what I can enumerate here.

  • ciaparker2

    Great article by the ever-great Handley on BP’s paying people i.e. shills) to rip Jenny and, more recently, Katie Couric to shreds for daring to criticize vaccines.
    http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/07/pharmas-mccarthy-ism-in-full-view.html

  • ciaparker2

    If you look at the press release for the Minnesota study, the surprise was not that one in 32 Somali children had autism, it was actually less than the one in 28 of the previous study, but that one in 36 white children there had it. One of your point people, Amy something, tried to say that that was not true, that the CDC was still sticking to the one in 48 figure (at least until April), but she’s just trying to do damage control, the study found that one in 36 white children had autism.

  • ciaparker2

    Jon,
    Help me out here. Yesterday I put up a link to an abstract of the original Verstraeten study just released by the CDC when requested for a congressional examination, the one that showed a 7.6 relative risk of autism after a mercury-containing vaccine, when a 2.0 relative risk is considered legal proof in a lawsuit. I don’t see it now. Is it still here? Did you see it?

  • mimi

    Anne Dachel spams every vaccine article with preformed comments.

  • ciaparker2

    Judge Mitting considered the case series on which the Lancet article was based, and found that the data had been accuratedly reported: the Lancet Twelve children were not examined only by Dr. Wakefield, and a number of professionals and technicians were involved in running the tests and performing the exams. Data from many physicians who had originally examined the children was included, and was not falsified. The GMC, pushed by BP, had taken the licenses of Dr. Walker-Smith, the father of pediatric gastroenterology, as well as that of Dr. Murch. Wakefield was not part of the lawsuit because his insurance wouldn’t pay for it. Wakefield got permission from the hospital and Dr. Walker-Smith to do the case series, and they were fully aware that he had been asked to do a study for a lawsuit brought by the parents. The children were sick, having developed autism and bowel disease shortly after getting the MMR, a surprising occurrence then, unfortunately a well-known occurrence now when it has happened to hundreds of thousands more. Dr. Wakefield found vaccine-strain measles virus in the children”s brain and GI tract, where it had no business being: the normal controls didn’t. These results have been replicated.
    Judge MItting ruled that the GMC, pushed by BP and its shill Brian Deer, had behaved abusively, and restored the licenses it had taken from the plaintiffs.The important thing is that these children, like millions more worldwide, reacted to the MMR with bowel disease and autism, a fact which all parents must know and consider before getting the vax.

  • ciaparker2

    The acellular DTaP vaccine has only parts of the pertussis pathogen, and has fewer disease antigens than the earlier DPT. It has not proven to be less dangerous despite this. It still has a lot of aluminum, formaldehyde, “trace” amounts of mercury (still ten times over the toxic waste level), polysorbate 80, and glutaraldehyde. It is still a highly reactive vaccine, and the phrase “less load on the immune system” is meaningless. The shot is still designed to evoke a potent immune response which is often damaging to the brain and often provokes an autoimmune disease. That silly study much discussed last March found that typical children and autistic children had all received the same number of antigens in their vaccines in the ’80s, and some attempted to say that this proved that it wasn’t the vaccines that caused autism, without considering that different individuals react differently to many stimuli, including vaccines, without being for this reason less worthy of protection than those who appear to be able to withstand tremendous levels of vaccine insult without obvious immediate damage.

  • Jon W

    Sorry, didn’t see it. I searched and found a 2001 and a 2003 study from him, but with the RR value you’re citing.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Not really. The DTaP has very rare serious side effects, though mild ones are common. See: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/vis-statements/dtap.pdf

    The current DTaP vaccines do not have thimerosal, certainly not in toxic amounts. The whole vaccine is 0.5 ml, a tenth of a teaspoon, most of which is liquid – the amounts of any other ingredients are really minuscule.

    Formaldehyde is produced by your body as part of your metabolism in larger amounts than in the vaccine (and is found in much larger amounts in fruit).

    Infants are exposed to larger amounts of aluminum than in the vaccine from breast milk or formula. In fact, research found that vaccines do not change the level of aluminum in infants blood.

    You can read more about vaccines ingredients here: http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-ingredients.pdf

    The tiny challenge the DTaP poses to infants immune system is an excellent example why modern vaccines raise so little safety concerns.

  • Jon W

    Dozens of studies attempting to replicate Wakefield’s results were completed in the years following the Lancet study. None of them replicated his results. Only years later were investigations completed finding that the records he reported did not sync with the medical records.

    I’ve searched again and only found Verstraeten studies looking at methylmercury, not the ethylmercury contained in some vaccines.

    Where to begin? With facts. Build an argument that doesn’t rely on shady backroom deals. If there is a conspiracy, literally millions of people would have to be in on it.

    That or vaccines aren’t linked to autism.

  • Jon W

    And his patent for a single dose vaccine?

    What about the falsified timelines to make the records fit his hypothesis?

  • Jon W

    Tampered records (http://bit.ly/1f4K4Uk).

    Again, Judge Mitting was *not ruling on Wakefield*. He only ruled on Walker-Smith.

    Wakefield, for whatever reason, decided not to appeal the GMC ruling and his license to practice medicine remains revoked.

    As far as birthday parties go, did he get IRB approval? Is a convenience sample at a birthday party really an accurate control group?

  • Jon W

    I have point people? I have a dog that barks a lot.

    The CDC is “sticking to” 1:48 because that is what the most accurate *national* data supports (March 2013). The results of a single study from Minnesota can not be reliably extrapolated to the entire nation.

  • bpatient

    Thanks for yet again demonstrating that correlation does not equal causation.

    Here’s another link; this one shows that production of organic foods tracks with the increase in the diagnosed prevalence of ASD:

    http://kfolta.blogspot.com/2013/02/organic-food-causes-autism.html

    Honestly, can you think of NOTHING else besides that the number of vaccines that increased in recent decades while the prevalence of diagnosed ASD increased? How about, oh, use of laptop computers, cell phones, smart phones, or the use of boys names that include a first syllable with a long “A” sound followed by an unstressed second syllable ending in “N”?

  • bpatient

    “The causes are obvious.”

    Well, given that the proposals put forth in series by anti-vaccine, anti-science advocates, since pertussis vaccination didn’t drive the apparent increase in the prevalence of ASD, since thimerosal clearly didn’t drive that increase, since MMR didn’t drive that increase, and since increasing exposure to vaccine antigens didn’t drive that increase, I suppose that I should agree with you that the causes are obvious–and here’s what current research says about those causes:

    Both genetic and environmental data point to early to mid gestation as a critical period for the development of ASD. Both rare and common genetic variations contribute to ASD risk; both inherited and spontaneous mutations play a role, and somatic mutation (e.g., preferential insertion of L1 sequences into synapse-related genes) early in prenatal development has been implicated by recent work. Environmental factors identified as drivers of ASD risk include maternal infection, preterm birth, advanced parental age, short inter-pregnancy interval, and prenatal exposure to air pollution, phthalates and pesticides. Vitamin intake, particularly folic acid, during the pre-conception period has been identified as a possible protective factor against ASD risk.

    The evidence suggests that ASD arises due to prenatal influences. That is now obvious.

  • bpatient

    Do you believe in Santa Claus?

    I’m just asking, because it seems that you think that the first data (Daddy dressed in a Santa suit, for example) must be definitive, and all the subsequent experience cannot negate first impressions.

    Following dramatic reductions in exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines, the prevalence of ASD continued to rise wherever the question was studied: in California, Quebec, Sweden, Denmark and Iceland. Even ardent anti-vaxxer Mark Blaxill (who wrote a book claiming that thimerosal was responsible for the “age of autism”) clearly understands that the data emphatically refutes his failed hypothesis: ““the rates of autism in California (properly adjusted for birth year and age at time of data collection) have gone steadily upward.”

    Those who claim that thimerosal caused an epidemic of autism are clearly wrong.

  • Jon W

    Edit: “but without the RR value you’re citing”

  • bpatient

    Yes, in retrospect I can see that most pediatricians that I know chose their profession because they wanted to see children suffer. Thanks for the insight.

  • bpatient

    The scientists that I trained with would give virtually anything to confirm preliminary work that they truly believed indicated something truly significant.

    Given the opportunity to confirm the results of his preliminary work in a fully-funded study 200 children using his already-assembled team at the Royal Free, Wakefield walked away.

    Nothing would make any of the physicians and scientists that I trained with do that. Nothing could have made me do that. My work has saved lives, and there’s just nothing that would have made me walk away from it when I knew it was right.

    There’s a reason why Wakefield made that choice, and his reason has been obvious for years.

  • bpatient

    You do realize, don’t you, that Wakefield did not have a clinical appointment and that he was not qualified or authorized to examine children?

    This is such a fantastic construction! Congratulations.

  • bpatient

    Strong work. Because of your efforts and the contributions of people like Handley, almost as many American adults believe that vaccines caused an epidemic of autism as believe in astrology–and with a similar factual basis.

  • bpatient

    Are the medical systems in the US like the system in Somalia? I mean, if access to appropriately trained physicians and the same diagnostic criteria and degree of awareness among parents and healthcare providers, your statement makes no sense. As you know.

  • bpatient

    I am your point person. Or something.

  • bpatient

    As you surely know, Mitting was not investigating fraud, since of course no fraud charges were brought against Walker-Smith (or Wakefield.)

    Why on earth do you bizarrely twist this to suggest that this indicates that “NO FRAUD” was committed by this Wakefield?

  • bpatient

    Ah, you clearly mean that Walker-Smith falsified nothing.

    Wakefield, of course, is another matter. As you know.

  • bpatient

    Why do you think that Wakefield’s insurance would not pay for his appeal? Was it because his case was a slam dunk, so he didn’t need any support?

  • bpatient

    You seem to be having a conceptual problem here. When you write ” the Lancet Twelve children were not examined only by Dr. Wakefield” you ignore the fact that Wakefield was not a pediatrician, he was not a pediatric gastroenterologist, and he did not have a clinical appointment or the right or the training to examine the children.

    You’re just repeating a fantasy.

    Other than that, strong work.

  • bpatient

    Walker-Smith threw Wakefield under the bus: through his solicitor, Walker-Smith correctly indicated that “there is now no respectable body of opinion which supports [Dr. Wakefield’s] hypothesis that MMR vaccine and autism/enterocolitis are causally linked.”

    He was right.

  • bpatient

    “Dr.Wakefield will have his day in court as well.”

    Well, he’s already failed on multiple occasions, but we can hope that he will be successful in his latest appeal, since that will expose him to the new Texas anti-SLAPP law.

  • bpatient

    Do you even have the faintest glimmer of a clue regarding what would be required for Wakefield to be licensed in this country? (No, you don’t. So why did you write that?)

  • Jens_disqussion

    The science has never discredited this “idea.”

    The “mainstream” media’s “long” attempts to proclaim the most disastrous medical experiment ever a non-event just shows how much they are controlled by a few with vested interest in keeping an appalling truth repressed.

    Here is research done outside of the vaccine industry that shows an 8-fold risk (800 %) for autism from getting one newly added vaccine series in the 1990s:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3878266/

    So what is the risk of getting the entire 1990s vaccine schedule compared to getting no vaccines, and why won’t the CDC let outside researchers study this?

  • bpatient

    “without the vaccine she would have not got autism”

    Why do experts in mitochondrial disease recommend vaccination to protect vulnerable children?

  • bpatient

    Ah, you certainly know by now that the Pace Law Review is anti-science drivel. Why have you posted this again after previously posting this misinformation hundreds of times?

    The Pace (EBCOLA) review identified children who developed seizure disorders (almost uniformly after vaccination against pertussis) with autistic symptoms. Such children have been investigated by numerous independent groups of researchers and have been repeatedly shown to develop their symptoms due to pre-existing mutations–not because of vaccinations.

    But you knew that. It’s genuinely weird that you prefer propaganda to science, but propaganda’s all you’ve got.

    Honestly, though, you should give this a rest: repeatedly posting easily-falsified misinformation hurts your position. Just so you know.

  • bpatient

    “There are many people who challenge the claim that there is no link between vaccines and autism”

    There are many people (about 25% of US adults–similar to the percentage who think vaccines cause ASD) who challenge the claim that our lives are not ruled by astrology.

    Argumentum ad populum = losing.

  • Jon W

    Science has discredited the ‘idea’. The mainstream media has nothing to do with it. Multiple independent lines of evidence finding no link between vaccines and autism do.

    The vaccine-autism non-link is one of the most studied topics on the last 25 years. Any time something is studied this much, there will be some positive findings (1 of every 20 studies, by the standard confidence interval). What matters is the consensus of all the literature. The consensus is that there is no link.

    And really, if you want to cite a study, try not using one by a guy who has had his medical license revoked.

  • bpatient

    As you certainly know, multiple groups of independent investigators have shown that children who were allegedly injured by vaccines and displayed the symptoms that were identified in the anti-science EBCAL paper turn out to have pre-existing mutations that completely explain their symptoms–vaccines did not cause those symptoms.

    For God’s sake, neurons cultured from pluripotent stem cells from the skin of such “vaccine-injured” people are defective and contain mutations that cause similar syndromes in laboratory animals. Really, it can’t get much clearer than this.

    The EBCALA paper discussed in the HDNET TV spot is beyond ignorant.

  • dough boy

    jon w is jon wolsonsteinberg

  • bpatient

    Notably, McCarthy did not retract her claim that she was an “Indigo Mom” and her son was a “crystal child.”

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Gosh Jens there is only a decade of statisticians pointing out that methods in your reference are somewhere between stunningly incompetent and outright fraudulent.

    I take great comport from the fact that no parent could make an honest effort at evaluating your reference and still honestly believe it.

    W&N

  • bpatient

    If you can’t suggest that simply because X followed Y within Z days, or you can’t suggest that your position is reasonable to an approximation of “50% and a feather” how can you possibly hope to prevail given a standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt”?

  • bpatient

    What should we do about parents who make ignorant decisions based on their Google searches and thus harm their own children or the children of others?

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Gosh Cia,
    Anyone that spends a min on Google can easily figure out that most Amish do vaccinate.

    In fact a bit of time on Google is all it takes to see that basically every single thing you have posted here is false.

    Thanks for the public service of demonstrating the exact ethical standards of the anti-vaccs.
    W&N

  • bpatient

    Exposing children and pregnant women to thimerosal-containing vaccines was outlawed in California since 2006–but the prevalence of ASD diagnosis has continued to rise.

    Even ardent anti-vaxxer Mark Blaxill (the founder of a notorious anti-vaccine web site and co-author of “The Age of Autism”) admitted long ago that “the rates of autism in California (properly adjusted for birth year and age at time of data collection) have gone steadily upward.”

    The “thimerosal cause an epidemic of autism” meme died years ago. It’s strange that you didn’t notice.

  • bpatient

    You have echoed previous and similarly ill-informed posts in this thread.

    Multiple groups of independent investigators have shown that children who were allegedly injured by vaccines and displayed the symptoms that were identified in the Pace study turn out to have pre-existing mutations that completely explain their symptoms–vaccines did not cause those symptoms.

    For God’s sake, neurons cultured from pluripotent stem cells from the skin of such “vaccine-injured” people are defective and contain mutations that cause similar syndromes in laboratory animals. Really, it can’t get much clearer than this.

    Do you never read the scientific literature?

  • Jon W

    I could use a loaf of bread. Is that the kind of thing you do?

  • bpatient

    Perhaps the best that you can do is to quote-mine people who died long before current research was completed.

    I suppose that Dr. Healy would be pleased that a great deal of the sort of research that she anticipated has been completed. You don’t acknowledge that research because of either your profound ignorance of the scientific literature or your bizarre choice to ignore that evidence. Here’s what that research shows:

    1. Children who regress into autism have abnormal brain growth trajectories that are already evident by four to six months of age that is apparently due to abnormal proliferation of neurons early in gestation.

    2. Children who go on to develop ASD already have abnormal accumulations of fluid in their brains by the earliest time point studied; prenatal MRI has shown that accumulation of this abnormal amount of extra-axial fluid begins before birth.

    3. Children who abruptly regress and develop seizures with autism-like symptoms following vaccination actually have pre-existing mutations that cause the disorder, which occurs whether or not the child has been recently vaccinated. The mutations cause the same reaction after a period of apparently normal development in laboratory animals.

    Additional recent research has shown:

    4. Dramatic reductions in exposure to thimerosal have been followed by continuing increases in the prevalence of ASD in California, Denmark, Iceland, Quebec, and Sweden.

    5. There is no relationship between receipt of MMR and the onset of symptoms of ASD or GI disease.

    6. There is no dose-response relationship between thimerosal and ASD.

    7. The number of antigens presented in vaccines is not related to the risk of ASD, and the prevalence of ASD among children in Iceland who received markedly fewer vaccines than were administered to US children was comparable to the prevalence in the US.

    8. Half of ASD cases are associated with mutations (rare variants) in coding regions of the DNA; additional cases of ASD (up to half by another recent estimate) are caused by the cumulative effect of minor and common genetic variants, which were not considered in the recent genome wide sequencing study.

    9. Perhaps one-fourth of ASD cases are associated with exposure to maternal antibodies which attack the brain of the developing fetus.

    10. Parents routinely miss the subtle early signs of ASD and so may associate the development of the disorder with events that occurred much later than the condition would have been noted by a trained investigator–so parental associations of developmental regression with coincident vaccination is obviously meaningless.

    11. The prevalence of ASD in Iceland is equivalent to that in the US, although children in Iceland receive fewer vaccines, no HepB vaccine, and no thimerosal.

    Essentially everything that you and your fellow travelers believe about the purported association of vaccination with the onset of ASD is wrong. Dr. Healy would be pleased that the work has progressed to this point–where you can be dismissed.

  • bpatient

    I suppose that you got a pleasurable jolt from that.

  • Jens_disqussion

    Attack the messenger? And ignore risk factors that well exceed anything drummed up in other autism studies. These are the only people who have accessed the VSD outside of the CDC. They reported strong links between TCVs and autism and other health disorders and then their careers are attacked? It’s an obvious MO by now and discredits no one.

  • Jon W

    It goes to credibility. He has none.

    The only commonality here is that anti-vaccine quacks have no scruples.

    Further, this particular study’s methodology is flawed – multiple comparisons are made and there is no mention of adjusting the stats to account for making multiple comparisons (at least 4).

    And then if you look to table 1, 17 vs 38 in a dataset of over 30 million?!

    Overpower a study and you can create statistical significance.

  • Twylaa

    Jon W, are you confusing VICP and NVIC?

  • Twylaa
  • Twylaa
  • Twylaa

    The plural of anecdotes would be data if these reports were studied as they should be.

  • Twylaa

    The Poling decision stated that,
    “Medical personnel at the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation, Department of Health and Human Services (DVIC) have reviewed the facts of this case, as presented by the petition, medical records, and affidavits. After a thorough review, DVIC has concluded that compensation is appropriate in this case.

    “In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42 U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii).”

    Etiology of Autism/Vaccine Damage/CHILD v. HHS
    http://www.autismpedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Etiology_of_Autism/Vaccine_Damage/CHILD_v._HHS

  • Twylaa

    Dorit, that is hogwash.

    Hannah Poling: Etiology of Autism/Vaccine Damage/CHILD v. HHS
    http://www.autismpedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Etiology_of_Autism/Vaccine_Damage/CHILD_v._HHS

    CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta interviews Dr. Jon Poling

  • Dorit Reiss

    The article offers a number of criticisms, generally unjustified.
    A. 2/3 of claims failed: as mentioned in my post and my comment, that’s a higher rate than in product liability claims in the regular courts. Unfortunately, many people bring claims where there is no evidence of causation. If it’s not a table injury – something supported by strong science caused by vaccines – the plaintiff has to show, as in the civil courts, that more likely than not the vaccine caused their harm. If a plaintiff cannot meet this very lenient standard – cannot show that it’s more than 50% likely the vaccine caused their harm – the plaintiff should not be compensated. The NVICP is not a social insurance plan for every disability: it’s a program to compensate for vaccine harms.
    B. The article criticizes the lack of compensation to plaintiffs in the Omnibus proceedings – at that point still waiting – but those plaintiffs could not prove their harms. As one judge pointed out, the cases were not even close.
    C. The article claims the safety provisions in the act were not enforced – with no evidence.
    D. The claim that the process is adversarial is, again, not supported. Most cases paid NVICP settle. They end in concession decrees. If a parent cannot prove her case, I’m sure the process feels adversarial. But frankly, that claim lacks a comparison to the courts. The alternative to NVICP is a regular court proceeding. Courts in the U.S. have been described in a lot of ways, but non-adversarial is not one of them.
    E. the article is right that the truth about vaccine lies in science.
    The science is clear: vaccines are not connected to autism; and not to a number of other death. The recent science consensus is also moving away from associating them with encephalopathy, though that’s still a Table Injury.

  • Twylaa

    OPEN LETTER TO DR. STEVEN NOVELLA
    IN RESPONSE TO “Has the Government Conceded Vaccines Cause Autism?”
    By Dr. Jon Poling, father of Hannah Poling
    http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/03/dr-jon-poling-o.html

  • Twylaa

    Dr. Jay Gordon is not anti-vaccine, and does not encourage parents not to vaccinate. He does, however, respect their informed choices.

  • Twylaa

    It’s certainly feasible to compare health outcomes among vaccinated and unvaccinated – retrospective studies in humans, and god standard prospective double blind studies in animals.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Let’s start with the claim that NVICP is a “nightmare” for parents. That’s probably true: parents going to NVICP have an injured child, and think it’s the vaccines. No legal process would be pleasant. In many of the cases – for example, the HPV cases mentioned in the article, or the autism cases – they have no good evidence of causation, and the government lawyers point that out. That alone would make the process unpleasant.

    That does not negate the fact that the process offers many, many breaks compared to a regular court proceeding. What the author does not do is study how regular courts work, and compare to that.

    Then the author claim the Department of Justice attorneys and their medical experts are “trained and dedicated to making your life as miserable as possible”. No evidence. It’s a grand conspiracy, all set to harm parents of injured children. Because everyone hates injured children, apparently, and no lawyers in the department of justice are also parents. I’m sorry: this unsupported claim blankly condemning the government lawyers is problematic.

    The article attacks the way HPV cases are treated because of their dismissal for inability to show causation.

    Here’s the thing: if you don’t have a table injury, the NVICP’s requirement for proving causation is no different than a civil court. Plaintiff has to prove that more likely than not – more than 50% likely – the vaccine caused the harm. It’s not a new requirement. It would be the same in the court. You are claiming someone should pay you money, you need to show the alleged source of injury caused your harm. Like the people claiming vaccines caused autism, most HPV claims have no evidence in causation. In fact, the science and evidence is on the other side, supporting the lack of causation.

    And since NVICP is not a social insurance program, as sad as it is, if you can’t show vaccine caused your harm, you shouldn’t get money from it.

    Maybe we should have a system that compensates everyone suffering, regardless of how their suffering happened. But an adjudicatory scheme, even no-fault, plaintiff friendly, is not the way to get there.
    These plaintiffs could not even meet the more than 50% likely that it was the vaccine burden.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Calling the explanation names won’t make it go away, nor will YouTube videos. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904:

    “Let me be very clear that the government has made
    absolutely no statement [in this case or anywhere] indicating that vaccines are
    a cause of autism.”

  • Dorit Reiss

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904:

    “Let me be very clear that the government has made
    absolutely no statement [in this case or anywhere] indicating that vaccines are a cause of autism.”

  • Twylaa

    It’s not only about antigens.

  • Twylaa

    Fewer antigens are needed because of stronger adjuvants such as aluminum, which is also implicated in autism.

  • Dorit Reiss
  • Dorit Reiss

    The German study that tried – a very large scale study – was criticized by you for having too small a sample of unvaccinated children. The problem you run into is that unvaccinated children are a very small minority – and not a random one. If you read the post, it actually also addresses the difficulties such a tiny population creates.

  • Twylaa

    You think you know enough to have such strong opinions about Cia’s baby because you have read her comments on the internet? Really?

  • Twylaa

    Neurology. 1999 Jul 22;53(2):396-401.
    Encephalitis after hepatitis B vaccination: recurrent disseminated encephalitis or MS?
    Tourbah A, Gout O, Liblau R, Lyon-Caen O, Bougniot C, Iba-Zizen MT, Cabanis EA.

    Abstract

    OBJECTIVE:
    To describe clinical and MRI features of patients with a disease suggestive of CNS inflammation after hepatitis B vaccination.

    METHODS:
    Eight patients with confirmed CNS inflammation occurring less than 10 weeks after hepatitis B vaccination are described. They received follow-up clinically and on MRI for a mean period of 18 months.

    RESULTS:
    Clinical and MRI findings were compatible with acute disseminated encephalomyelitis. However, clinical follow-up, repeated MRI, or both showed the persistence of inflammatory activity, which makes this encephalitis more suggestive of MS than of acute disseminated encephalomyelitis.

    CONCLUSION:
    The persistent inflammatory activity observed clinically and on MRI in these patients is comparable with that usually observed in MS. Epidemiologic studies are currently testing the hypothesis of a triggering role of hepatitis B vaccination in CNS demyelination.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10430433

  • Dorit Reiss

    There is no credible evidence connecting aluminum to autism, either. And since the amount of aluminum salts in vaccines is tiny – smaller than in breastmilk or formula, and not enough to make a difference in the blood levels of aluminum in an infant- if aluminum was the issue, you really shouldn’t be pointing at vaccines. See:

    Mitkus et al “Updated aluminum pharmacokinetics following infant exposures through diet and vaccination.”

    Vaccine 29 (2011) 9538-9543
    doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2011.09.124

    Baylor NW, Egan W, Richman P. Aluminum salts in vaccines — U.S. perspective. Vaccine.2002;20:S18-S23.

    Keith LS, Jones DE, Chou C. Aluminum toxicokinetics regarding infant diet and vaccinations.Vaccine. 2002;20:S13-S17.

    And also: http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/aluminum.pdf

  • Dorit Reiss

    She says she did not take the baby to a doctor. That the baby was never diagnosed. That the reason she thinks it’s encephalitis is because of the crying. She said it multiple time. Should I disbelieve her?
    And as to the point that vaccines cause autism, there are scientific studies on that.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Why are you linking to the 1999 8 patients study rather than to the epidemiological studies mentioned as ongoing? Because they did not support the result of the small study?

  • Twylaa

    Bernadette Healy’s bio can be found here.
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/changingthefaceofmedicine/physicians/biography_145.html

    Some excerpts:

    “Cardiologist Bernadine Healy was a physician, educator, and health administrator who was the first woman to head the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Known for her outspoken, innovative policymaking, Dr. Healy was particularly effective in addressing medical policy and research pertaining to women…

    “Healy graduated first in her class at Hunter, went on to Vassar where she graduated summa cum laude, earned her M.D. at Harvard Medical School, and completed her training in internal medicine and cardiology at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

    “After completing her internship and residency at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Dr. Healy spent two years at the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute at the National Institutes of Health before returning to Hopkins in 1976, where she became a professor of medicine. She earned a reputation as a skilled cardiovascular researcher specializing in the pathology
    of heart attacks. She also became the school’s first woman to serve as assistant dean for postdoctoral programs and faculty development.

    “In 1984 President Ronald Reagan appointed Healy deputy director of the White House Office of Science and Policy. In 1985 she was appointed chair of the Research Institute at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation where she directed the research programs of nine departments. In 1991, President George H. W. Bush appointed her director of the National Institutes of Health. She later served as dean of Ohio State University College of Medicine and Public Health and professor of medicine from 1995 to 1999…

    “While she was at the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Healy undertook a number of initiatives. She established an award program to keep talented scientists working within the grant system during funding lapses, oversaw the development of a major intramural genetics laboratory and an Institute for Nursing Research, and launched the $625 million Women’s Health Initiative (a long-term health study involving 150,000 women). In the interests of better understanding the different ways disease and treatment affect men and women, she also established a policy whereby the National Institutes of Health would fund only those clinical trials that included both men and women when the condition being studied affected both sexes.

    “As president of the American Heart Association from 1998 to 1999, she initiated pioneering research into women’s heart disease and demonstrated that medical progress depends on the public and medical community’s perception that there is a problem to be solved. Healy set out to convince both the lay and medical sectors that heart disease is also a woman’s disease, ‘not a man’s disease in disguise’…

    “An author as well as a policymaker and manager, Dr. Healy wrote or co-authored more than 220 peer-reviewed manuscripts on cardiovascular research and health and science policy. In addition to her various administrative positions, she also continued to treat patients during much of her career. Her research has led to deeper understanding of the pathology and treatment of heart attacks, especially in women.”

  • Dorit Reiss

    Let me be very clear on this: I’d rather not talk about Cia’s baby at all. She’s not a party to this, she’s an innocent, and I wouldn’t drug her into this. But Cia keeps using her story to try and scare parents away from vaccines. Under these circumstances, it’s fair to point out the problems in this story:
    That Cia herself says she did not take the child to a doctor; that there was no medical diagnosis; that the only reason Cia thinks it’s encephalitis is because the baby cried a lot; that encephalitis means more than a baby that cries a lot.
    And that the scientific evidence is that vaccines do not cause autism.

  • Twylaa

    re: “We’ve all had the same shots as kids”
    Not true!! We received far fewer shots than today’s kids!

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Thanks for confirming my posting that she had zero relevant qualifications.

    Remind us again why you absolutely refuse to ever use qualified scientists?

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Thanks for the reference that tells as zero about the safety of vaccines.

    Remind us again: why do you absolutely refuse to ever use qualified scientists to understand the risks of vaccines?

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    This is not an opinion, but rather it is a simple—trivial to prove—fact that Cia is systematically dishonest about vaccines.

    Why don’t you care?

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Twylaa,

    You have completely, utterly, totally failed to understand the issues.

    Remind us again: why do you absolutely refuse to ever use qualified scientists to understand the risks of vaccines?
    W&N

  • JohnDStone

    Walker-Smith was senior author of the paper and was as responsible for its content as Wakefield. If the paper mis-reported then he would be equally to blame, and this was why the GMC went after him as well as Wakefield. But the judge’s ruling confirms that the paper reported accurately in virtually all respects. His proviso was over the statement about ethical approval which Walker-Smith did not remember seeing. But that statement is also truthful.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Gosh jens,

    There is a link on the CDC site for accessing the VSD data.

    The assertion that Geier et al are the only non-CDC folks to access the data is a fabrication.

    This fabrication distracts people from the fact that Geier et al engaged in unethical and illegal conduct at the VSD.

    It also distracts people from the fact that there are literally millions of qualified statisticians–everyone of which will tell you your reference is completely BS.

    The fact is the authors know with absolute certaintly their paper is a complete scam, it just allows them to continue making money.

    Even if you don’t care, the rest of the world does.

    W&N

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/activities/vsd.html

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Hey,

    The founder/president of NVIC has been publically called a liar by scientists.

    She sued—and lost.

    Anyone that reads the nonsense you posted will understand why she lost.

    But NVIC does manage to transfer ~$800,000 a year into their pockets from parents by scaring them about vaccines.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    I don’t think hogwash is the correct term—I think lying more accurate.

    The Poling’s received compensation for a “table injury”—encephalopathy.

    Remember families basically automatically win table injuries.

    The case was not about autism. The words in the decision make this very clear.

    And the court has responded to the anti-vaccs by pointing out that there has never been a single case compensated for vaccines causing autism.

    The dishonesty of the anti-vaccs is staggering, but very revealing.

    W&N

  • Jon W

    The reports have been studied. The vaccine-austism non-link is one of the most studied topics in contemporary medicine. The claims don’t hold any water.

    When positive results do appear, they can never be replicated in larger and more rigorous studies.

    Further, outright fraud doesn’t help the case.

  • Josh Mazer

    Blaming Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy is the last refuge of scoundrels. Seems the left wing blogosphere is trying to bury the great reviews and Investigative Writers and Editors Book of the Year Award for year 2005 given to David Kirby for his book Evidence of Harm. Understandable. Kirby’s book is devastatingly detailed and meticulously footnoted…. and the journalistic hacks who suck up to big pharma have never heard of it or read it.

    http://www.evidenceofharm.com/index.htm

    “Kirby’s portrayal manages to make his protagonists seem far from crazy. They have been derided as dangerous anti-vaccination zealots, but Kirby sets their focus on the mercury-based vaccine preservative thimerosal against ‘modern science’s near-religious faith in all things genetic.’ The battle rages on, and while Evidence of Harm offers no prospect of a truce, it does provide crystal clarity on an often misunderstood side of the argument.” – The Washington Post

    “Evidence of Harm is a gripping investigation. Much like the 9/11 commission’s report, it is an alarming page-turner. Keep your eye on California, where autism cases are closely tracked. If autism-related diagnoses decline over the next year or two following the introduction of thimerosal-free vaccines, the finding will further fuel this simmering controversy.” — Newsday

    “Kirby delivers a well-written story that weaves in startling facts and takes you on a roller-coaster ride into the homes of families devastated by autism. It tells tales of government bureaucracy and political cronyism that, if true, are appalling. It took me several weeks to read Evidence of Harm. Maybe it was the detail-filled narrative from the parents’ point of view that made me put the book down every so often and walk away. I shared their pain, their anger, their feeling of helplessness.” — Bloomberg News

  • Jon W

    Except that there was no evidentiary hearing, thus no burden of proof to argue causation in fact. This is not proof of a vaccine-autism link.

    The key phrase in the quote you’ve selected was “meet the statutory criteria”. The legal standard here is set artificially low – the ’50% and a feather’ rule. The timeline itself is usually sufficient in VICP in such table injury cases.

  • Jon W

    No. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, commonly referred as VICP.

    From their website: “On October 1, 1988, the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (Public Law 99-660) created the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). The VICP was established to ensure an adequate supply of vaccines, stabilize vaccine costs, and establish and maintain an accessible and efficient forum for individuals found to be injured by certain vaccines. The VICP is a no-fault alternative to the traditional tort system for resolving vaccine injury claims that provides compensation to people found to be injured by certain vaccines. The U. S. Court of Federal Claims decides who will be paid.”

    http://1.usa.gov/1k1jvkW

  • Jon W

    True, but trivially so. This parent’s comment only serves to show more education is needed.

    There are more vaccines now, but much less of an antigen load, therefore less stress on the immune system.

  • Jon W

    Blaming the man whose single fraudulent study started it all – yes, very appropriate.

    And really, book reviews as evidence? Any argument can be “meticulously footnoted”, none of that matters.

    The consensus of the literature is clear – vaccines are safe.

    That you do not know of criticism of Kirby’s book seems to show that you only select sources that fit your conclusion.

  • Jon W

    Nothing says ‘classy’ like a little antisemitism.

  • Twylaa

    The study wasn’t fraudulent, and it didn’t start the concern about vaccines. Dr. Wakefield responded to the concerns of parents.

    I encourage all readers to read David Kirby’s book Evidence of Harm. It is an excellent book – well written, informative, meticulously researched.

  • Twylaa

    That’s such baloney. Antigens are only part of the picture. Aluminum adjuvants, which provoke a stronger response from the immune system, are one reason for fewer antigens.

    J Inorg Biochem. 2011 Nov;105(11):1489-99. doi: 10.1016/j.jinorgbio.2011.08.008. Epub 2011 Aug 23.

    Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?

    Abstract

    Autism spectrum disorders (ASD) are serious multisystem developmental disorders and an urgent global public health concern. Dysfunctional immunity and impaired brain function are core deficits in ASD. Aluminum (Al), the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant, is a demonstrated neurotoxin and a strong immune stimulator. Hence, adjuvant Al has the potential to induce neuroimmune disorders. When assessing adjuvant toxicity in children, two key points ought to be considered: (i) children should not be viewed as “small adults” as their unique physiology makes them much more vulnerable to toxic insults; and (ii) if exposure to Al from only few vaccines can lead to cognitive impairment and autoimmunity in adults, is it unreasonable to question whether the current pediatric schedules, often containing 18 Al adjuvanted vaccines, are safe for children? By applying Hill’s criteria for establishing causality between exposure and outcome we investigated whether exposure to Al from vaccines could be contributing to the rise in ASD prevalence in the Western world. Our results show that: (i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, p<0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89-0.94, p=0.0018-0.0248). The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal. Because children represent a fraction of the population most at risk for complications following exposure to Al, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety seems warranted.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22099159

  • ciaparker2

    Mercury in vaccines was the major cause of the increase of autism starting in the ’30s, after it was added to the diphtheria vaccine in 1932. See The Age of Autism book for details. A few cases had been caused in the nineteenth century, and one of Kanner’s original cohort, by an encephalitic reaction to the smallpox vaccine, a reaction that can be caused by any vaccine, a reaction that became much more frequent when the number of vaccines given was tripled in the ’90s and ’00s. The MMR appears to cause the encephalitic reaction, linked to the quadrupling of mumps virus in it in 1990 (since quietly lowered again), and signaled by the presence of measles vaccine virus in the GI tract and brains of the autistic MMRed, but not the typical ones. See Thomas Verstraeten’s original study of 40,000 children in the ’90s who got mercury-containing vaccines, with a relative risk of 7.6 of autism, with 2.0 being considered sufficient to prove a causal relationship in a court of law (just released from sequester by the CDC). The hundreds of thousands of children who have reacted to the MMR with losing all their acquired skills, while developing bowel disease as well as autism, is dismissed by you people as coincidental, but curiously enough, it NEVER happens in the unvaccinated. NOT born with it.

  • Twylaa

    Dorit, that is scary.

    And inaccurate. Even Merck’s MMR label says that the MMR can cause “afebrile convulsions or seizures”.
    http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

    Several studies have shown a connection between vaccinations and a higher risk of developing asthma.
    http://www.smartvax.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69

    Vaccines can cause autism. This is well documented in numerous cases and reports.
    http://www.smartvax.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=58:why-is-the-vaccine-autism-question-far-from-answered&catid=34:general&Itemid=56

    Regarding peanut allergy -
    http://www.smartvax.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60

    There are a lot of reasons for concerns about today’s vaccine schedule. There are also a lot of reasons for concerns about communicable diseases. These issues are not simple. People must have the right to make their own choices about vaccines for themselves and for their minor children. It is the parents who are left picking up the pieces when things go wrong.

    And yes, in this brief comment I have not provided proof positive and people will hack away at everything I have posted. But this is sufficient show that there is controversy, there are real concerns, it’s not so black & white as people such as Dorit would have us believe.

  • Twylaa
  • ciaparker2

    Thimerosal was, and is (it’s still in most injected flu vaccines in full force, including those usually given to babies and children, and the “trace” amounts still in many vaccines are ten times over the hazardous waste limit, and a hundred times over the drinking water limit), a major cause of autism. The flu vaccine was rarely given to children before 2004, when the CDC put it on the recommended schedule for all children, for no particular reason but pharma profits: it was contraindicated for healthy children and pregnant women previously. Most people think that there’s no more mercury in vaccines, but in reality, if you comply with the CDC schedule, you’re getting a comparable amount (flu vaccine yearly, a lot of “trace” amounts add up, and a lot of people store it in the brain permanently) to what children routinely got before (amounts hundreds of times over the considered “safe” amount of one of the deadliest poisons known to man, which kills every cell it touches at doses as low as one nanomoldcule per million). , However, vaccine encephalitis and subsequent autism can be caused by any vaccine. My baby screamed for four days and nights constantly and inconsolably after the hep-b vax at birth, given without permission. Diagnosed with autism at 20 months, two months after the DTaP booster wiped out her only two words. Like a stroke, which often does severe damage to the language center of the brain, vaccine encephalitis reduces or cuts off blood flow to the brain, especially the language and social center, resulting in the brain damage that is autism.
    Those who have proven that thimerosal caused an epidemic of autism (though not the only cause), are clearly right.

  • bpatient

    Following dramatic reduction in exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines the prevalence of ASD continued to rise wherever the question was studied: in California, Quebec, Sweden, Denmark and Iceland.

    Although since 2006 children and pregnant women have by law been
    prevented from exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines in California,
    the prevalence of ASD has continued to rise there. Even ardent anti-vaxxer Mark Blaxill (who staked his reputation and wrote a book claiming that thimerosal was responsible for the “age of autism”) clearly understands that the data emphatically refutes his failed hypothesis: ““the rates of autism in California (properly adjusted for birth year and age at time of data collection) have gone steadily upward.”

    Those who claim that thimerosal caused an epidemic of autism are clearly wrong.

  • ciaparker2
  • ciaparker2

    The link gets shortened, just like with the one the other day to the Minnesota study. Let me try another way, with gaps you can pull together to see if the whole link is posted.

    .http://mercury-freedrugs.org/
    docs/00mmdd_EISAbstractSubmission_IncreasedRiskOf
    DevelopmentalNeurologicImpairmentAfterHighExposureToThimerosal-containing
    Vaccine_.pdf

  • ciaparker2

    And notice that three years ago this month, every news broadcast and newspaper in the world was trumpeting out every day for months that Dr. Wakefield had committed fraud, and that he and Dr. Walker-Smith had rightfully gotten their licenses revoked for having dared to say that the MMR might cause autism and bowel disease. And then when, in March 2012, High Court Judge Sir John Mitting restored the licenses, saying that the children’s symptoms had been accurately recorded and treated, restoring the licenses of the plaintiffs Dr. Walker-Smith and Murch (Dr. Wakefield’s insurance would not pay for him to be part of the lawsuit), not a single mainstream news outlet in the U.S. even mentioned it. Nor did any mention Valentino Bocca being awarded a large judgment in Italy where the judge said that it had been proven that the MMR caused his autism. Hannah Poling, who got millions in a settlement admitting that getting a number of vaccines in one day had caused her autism, was on the Today show, but it was not mentioned on any of the evening news programs. And yet what is more newsworthy than this, or closer to the concerns of all American families? Who do you think is decreeing these news blackouts?

  • ciaparker2

    The work has been replicated. See pp. 221-2 in second edition of Sears’ The Vaccine Book for citations. The problem is that researching autism and the MMR (et al) means that in most instances you’ll get your funding cut, not only for that study but for all other studies your center is doing: such is the power of the pharma companies. Dr. Halvorsen in The Truth About Vaccines cites several researchers in the UK saying that they had wanted to do the work, but had been told that that would be to saw off the branch that they all were sitting on.

  • Jon W

    Again, the ethylmercury in in vaccines is easily metabolized and excreted. it does not bioaccumulate like methylmercury does. Therefore, no effect. See link from prior comment.

  • Jon W

    Was it published and did it go through peer review? I’m not seeing a journal name on the abstract and the title didn’t come up in a googlescholar search.

  • Jon W

    You know what else doesn’t get funding: studies about ‘cold’ mothers causing autism.

    The late 1990s and early 2000s was the time when funding was available. After years of failed replications the funding has been cut because it’s not a credible idea. No conspiracy needed.

    Failed hypotheses don’t get funded.

  • Jon W

    I propose an edit: A concise list of strawmen arguments.

    Further, none of this supports a vaccine link to autism.

  • Jon W

    Mitting restored the license, singular, of Walker-Smith. Wakefield did not appeal the ruling and remains without a license to practice medicine.

    Further, courtrooms are not the setting for scientific debate. A single judge can make any determination he wants. The scientific evidence stands on its own, and it has stood on the side of vaccine safety for years.

    The Poling case: causation in fact was not proven, a table injury was. This is a non-fault ruling. The timeline fit the profile for a table injury, therefore compensation was granted without evidence of causation.

    Decreeing news blackouts? ANswer your own question. You keep making vague references to a conspiracy and then backing it up with more vague references. Substantiate the claims.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I’m sorry you find the idea of a state protecting children’s rights to health and life scary, Twyla.

    No, there are not a lot of reasons for concerns about today’s vaccine schedule – as the 2013 IOM report concluded, “No Evidence of Safety Concerns
    Upon reviewing stakeholder concerns and sci-
    entific literature regarding the entire childhood
    immunization schedule, the IOM committee finds
    no evidence that the schedule is unsafe.” http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2013/Childhood-Immunization-Schedule/ChildhoodImmunizationScheduleandSafety_RB.pdf

    Going through your claims:
    A. Yes, vaccines can cause febrile seizures. That’s because vaccines can cause fever, and a fever can cause febrile seizures, which are generally harmless. http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/febrile_seizures/detail_febrile_seizures.htm Of course, since diseases cause fever very often, not vaccinating and allowing vaccine preventable diseases to come back will increase, not decrease. There is no evidence, however, that vaccines cause seizure disorder or epilepsy.

    B. Asthma:

    The 2008 study does not show a connection between vaccines and asthma, though it raises questions about timing of vaccines. As the study points out, it’s unclear why delay is associated with less asthma. More research is needed.
    The anti-vaccine site misrepresents the result of the CDC’s study. The site says: “The CDC’s Asthma-Vaccine study found that the Hib and Hepatitis B vaccines (both given in the first 6 months of life) increase the risk of developing asthma by 18 and 20 percent respectively”. Here is what the study actually said: “There is no association between diphtheria, tetanus and whole cell pertussis vaccine, oral polio vaccine or measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and the risk of asthma. The weak associations for Hib and hepatitis B vaccines seem to be at least partially accounted for by health care utilization or information bias.” In other words, because children with asthma go to the doctor more often, they have a greater chance of being immunized.

    It also conveniently ignores other studies. Such as Maher JE, teal, 2004, Infant Vaccination and Childhood Asthma Among Full-term Infants, Pharmcoepidemiology and Drug Safety 13:1-9, which followed up on Hepatitis B and found that asthma was not associated with the vaccine or the age of its first dose, or with the HiB vaccine; a Dutch study that also looked at HiB and found no connection: Bernsen et al, 2006, Haemophilus influenza type B vaccination and reported atopic disorder in 8-12 year old children Pediatric Pulmonology 41: 463-469;
    And several large scale studies about DTP which found no association to asthma:
    Maitra et al, 2004, Pertussis Vaccination in infancy and asthma or allergy in later childhood: Birth cohort study. British Medical Journal 328: 925-926.
    Bernsen et al 2006. Diphtheria tetanus pertussis poliomyelitis vaccination and reported atopic disorders in 8-12 year old children. Vaccine 24: 2035-42.
    And for an overview, see Balicer et al 2007. Is Childhood vaccination associated with asthma? A meta-analysis of observational studies. Pediatrics 120: e1269-77.

    C. Autism: this article doesn’t really provide any new studies – it just complains about the studies because they looked at MMR, ignoring the fact that that was the claim, and still is for many parents, misrepresenting the thimerosal/autism studies (which conclusively showed no connection, and claiming new hypotheses – ignoring the many, many studies examining this question, including across populations, with no link found. I can repost the links to studies, but I did it several times on this thread, and I urge people to look this up.

    D. Peanut allergy: this repeats Fraser’s misleading claims. Yes, companies examined whether peanut oil can be an adjuvant in the 1960s. But it was never approved as an adjuvant. As the CDC points out: ”

    What are some examples of adjuvants?

    Aluminum gels or aluminum salts are the only vaccine adjuvants currently licensed for use in the United States. Small amounts of aluminum are added as an adjuvant to help stimulate better responses to vaccines. Aluminum is one of the most common metals found in nature and is present in air, food, and water.” http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html. No other adjuvant was every used here.

    This is an excellent example why anti-vaccine sites like smartvax are not a good place to get your vaccine information: the information there is often inaccurate.”

    One possible good source is the book Martin G. Myers, M.D. and Diego Pineda “Do Vaccines Cause That?!”.

  • bpatient

    The apparent prevalence of ASD began to increase in the 1985-1889 period in California, Denmark, and Sweden, and the rate accelerated in the early 1990s. Some Americans noted that this increase seemed to track with increased exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines in California—but the ASD increase was associated with _decreasing_ exposure to thimerosal in Denmark and Sweden,where exposure to thimerosal from vaccines (already low throughout the 1970s and 1980s) was further reduced in the late 1980s and then eliminated in the early 1990s as ASD prevalence continued to increase. Similarly, the prevalence of ASD has continued to increase in California where children and pregnant women are legally protected from exposure, and in Quebec, where thimerosal was eliminated from the pediatric vaccine schedule years ago.

    The thimerosal-caused-an-epidemic-of-autism hypothesis passed its sell-by date long ago. You are beating the faint outline of the shadow of a long-dead horse.

  • bpatient

    “The work has been replicated.”

    No, Wakefield’s work has not been replicated. No one has ever demonstrated that MMR vaccination is associated with the onset of ASD and bowel disease.

    In fact an attempt to replicate Wakefield’s results in a careful case-control study concluded with this statement from the authors (including Wakefield’s former co-author and business partner): “The work reported here eliminates the remaining support for the hypothesis that autism with GI complaints is related to MMR vaccine exposure. We found no relationship between the timing of MMR vaccine and the onset of either GI complaints or autism.” [PLoS One. 2008 Sep 4;3(9):e3140]

    This should interest you:

    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2010/02/independent-wakefield-way-really.ht

  • bpatient
  • ciaparker2

    There is no safe amount of mercury, certainly not for the purposes of injection into the body. Mark Noble did research a few years ago showing how mercury causes neuronal death in every cell it touches at concentrations as low as one nanomolecule per million. Different people have different levels of overt reaction: just as some people, sensitized to peanut protein by the Hib vaccine, die if they inhale a peanut molecule, while most don’t, so many people react to even the tiniest amount of mercury in an injection with severe reactions and disability. The trace amounts of mercury still in the DTaP vaccines are still ten times the amount that constitutes hazardous waste, and a hundred times the amount permitted in drinking water.
    As for aluminum, the body has natural filters in the digestive system which filter out most aluminum swallowed: this is very different from injecting it into the body, bypassing the filters. The purpose of the aluminum adjuvant is to force the body to react to it, as it is so potent a neurotoxin and extremely irritating to the immune system, so that it will pay attention to the disease pathogens and make antibodies to them. Aluminum in pet vaccines has caused so much cancer and immune disease that the trend is to reject all adjuvanted vaccines for pets and go for the genetically-engineered Purevax instead (and I’m waiting to see what damage Purevax may turn out to cause. Many vets no longer recommend the frequent boosters of a decade ago..
    Many react to the DTaP with asthma, allergies, seizure disorders, SIDS, or autism. I’m sure you remember how the booster erased my daughter’s only two words and she was diagnosed with autism two months later. See Dr. Sears’ The Vaccine Book for studies showing neurodevelomental disability in infants getting certain amounts of aluminum in vaccines, medications, or intravenous feeding sera.

  • ciaparker2

    Come now, Dorit, you’re directing me to the Chop site of Dr. Proffit, vaccine profiteer? The guy who says infants can safely get 10,000 vaccines at once and no harm would come to them?

  • ciaparker2

    Why would it not be? It was blood samples from several healthy, typical boys, they were compensated for it, and they and their parents gave full, informed consent. (More than the parents of children like mine crippled for life by the hep-B vax given in the hospital at birth without asking permission).
    It was a kangaroo court, convened to lynch him. What would have been the point of appealing the ruling of the vengeful wolves? Judge Mitting ruled that the GMC had used shallow reasoning to reach FALSE conclusions, the conclusions that BP had told them they had to reach. He ruled that a legal board be included in future disciplinary proceedings to avoid such abuses.

  • Dorit Reiss

    If there was no safe amount of mercury, we’d all have a problem, since it’s part of our environment, in the food we eat, in the rocks around it. It used to be put on wounds. Our liver and kidneys are very able of handling small amounts. The question of thimerosal in vaccines was investigated, and no harms found.

    The peanut issue is not relevant, since there is no peanut in vaccines.

    As I mentioned above, studies showed no change at the amount of aluminum in infants’ blood from the tiny amounts in the vaccine.

    Vaccines are actually correlated with a decrease in SIDS: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342 and studies – posted elsewhere on this thread by me – show no connection to asthma, seizure disorders, allergies or autism.

    For parents, I recommend the book “Do Vaccine Cause That” by Dr. Myers and Pineda to help counter these claims.

  • bpatient

    “Mercury in vaccines was the major cause of the increase of autism”

    No.

    The apparent prevalence of ASD began to increase in the 1985-1889 period in California, Denmark, and Sweden, and the rate accelerated in the early 1990s. Some Americans noted that this increase seemed to track with increased exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines in California—but the ASD increase was associated with _decreasing_ exposure to thimerosal in Denmark and Sweden,where exposure to thimerosal from vaccines (already low throughout the 1970s and 1980s) was further reduced in the late 1980s and then eliminated in the early 1990s as ASD prevalence continued to increase. Similarly, the prevalence of ASD has continued to increase in California where children and pregnant women are legally protected from exposure, and in Quebec, where thimerosal was eliminated from the pediatric vaccine schedule years ago.

    Regarding MMR: Wakefield hypothesized that (1) vaccination leads to chronic measles infection in the gut and increased gut
    permeability, which (2) allows unspecified toxins to reach the brain and cause autism, and (3) the widespread use of MMR is a major determinant of the apparent increase in ASD. [Pediatrics 2001; 107; e84]

    None of that is true. [PLoS One. 2008 Sep 4;3(9):e3140]

  • Dorit Reiss

    Dr. Paul Offit, who anti-vaccine activists like to attack, is a pediatrician, a scientist, and a vaccine expert, who dedicated his life to saving children’s life. His Vaccine Education Center produces excellent – and carefully referenced – materials that parents can read for themselves (and check the references). Here is a response to the personal attacks – as demonstrated above – that anti-vaccine activists like to send his way, because he’s an eloquent, knowledgeable voice about vaccines: http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/debunking-myths-dr-paul-offit/

  • Josh Mazer

    suggesting that a 1998 retrospective case series published in Lancet and since discredited and retracted is behind vaccine hesitancy and refusal is a hail Mary thrown up by concerned and desperate indiscriminate vaccinationists. When news outlets like PBS default to vilifying Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy for vaccine concerns it demonstrates that the new saless outlets are agenda, not fact driven.

    I would suggest that articles like this one in BMJ are much more relevant, recent, and cogent to the issue of why informed medical consumers are not convinced about safety and efficacy of vaccines. The BMJ editorial published May 2013 demonstrates that CDC flu vaccine policy officials, and medically ignorant, credulous media types, are deliberately lying about vaccine safety and are engaged in “disease mongering” to further vaccine sales:

    http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3037

  • Dorit Reiss

    The 10,000 vaccines claim is an excellent example of how misleading these attacks are. Dr. Offit
    said that a baby’s immune system can handle many more than the vaccines we give, because it faces many more challenges from the natural environment than it does from the vaccines – there are a lot of germs around. Then the article ran some numbers and concluded that theoretically, it can be in the area of 10000 or more. He was not speaking of sticking ten thousands needles in a baby.

    Here is the actual quote, from this article: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/1/124.full
    “Studies on the diversity of antigen receptors indicate that the immune system has the capacity to respond to extremely large numbers of antigens. Current data suggest that the theoretical capacity determined by diversity of antibody variable gene regions would allow for as many as 109 [that should be ten to the nine and ten to the 11. D.R.] to 1011 different
    antibody specificities.38 But this prediction is limited by the number of circulating B cells and the likely redundancy of antibodies generated by an individual.” Notice the words “theoretical capacity”.

  • Josh Mazer

    My point was not that thimerosal does or not cause neurodevelopmental issues including autism- I am pointing out the intellectual bankruptcy of McCarthy blaming Wakefield and Jenny when so much other more recent data has emerged since Lancet 1998 was published and, indeed, retracted.

    http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/00mmdd_EISAbstractSubmission_IncreasedRiskOfDevelopmentalNeurologicImpairmentAfterHighExposureToThimerosal-containingVaccine_.pdf

  • Josh Mazer

    Dr Offit blames a DC area TV reporter for starting the vaccine safety movement by questioning the safety of the pertussis vaccine. Who should I believe- you or Dr. Offit?

  • Josh Mazer

    “The CDC pledges “To base all public
    health decisions on the highest quality scientific data, openly and
    objectively derived.” But Peter Doshi argues that in the case of influenza vaccinations and their marketing, this is not so

    Promotion
    of influenza vaccines is one of the most visible and aggressive public
    health policies today. Twenty years ago, in 1990, 32 million doses of
    influenza vaccine were available in the United States. Today around 135
    million doses of influenza vaccine annually enter the US market, with
    vaccinations administered in drug stores, supermarkets—even some
    drive-throughs. This enormous growth has not been fueled by popular
    demand but instead by a public health campaign that delivers a
    straightforward, who-in-their-right-mind-could-possibly-disagree
    message: influenza is a serious disease, we are all at risk of
    complications from influenza, the flu shot is virtually risk free, and
    vaccination saves lives. Through this lens, the lack of influenza
    vaccine availability for all 315 million US citizens seems to border on
    the unethical. Yet across the country, mandatory influenza vaccination
    policies
    have cropped up, particularly in healthcare facilities,1 precisely
    because not everyone wants the vaccination, and compulsion appears the
    only way to achieve high vaccination rates.2
    Closer examination of influenza vaccine policies shows that although
    proponents employ the rhetoric of science, the studies underlying the
    policy are often of low quality, and do not substantiate officials’
    claims. The vaccine might be less beneficial and less safe than has been
    claimed, and the threat of influenza appears overstated.”

    http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3037

  • Josh Mazer

    “Closer examination of influenza vaccine policies shows that although
    proponents employ the rhetoric of science, the studies underlying the
    policy are often of low quality, and do not substantiate officials’
    claims.”

    British Medical Journal May 16, 2013

    http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3037

  • ciaparker2

    It was suppressed for over a decade by the CDC. Why do you think they would want to do this?

  • ciaparker2

    Dr. Wakefield was a qualified, registered doctor, surgeon and gastroenterologist. He did not have clinical appointment at the Royal Free, he was a researcher. He was a not a pediatrician and he did not examine children. That’s one of the reasons why they had to rope Walker-Smith and Murch into the GMC proceeding, from which Judge MItting affirmed that they had done nothing wrong, because whatever Wakefield was supposed to have done he could not have done without them.

  • ciaparker2

    Yet unfortunately, most pediatricians have chosen to turn a blind eye to the havoc wreaked by the vaccines they recklessly administer. Many, certainly most of the parents of vaccine-damaged children, have concluded that most care more about their earnings and emoluments of every kind than about children’s health.

  • ciaparker2

    Dr. Wakefield was a qualified, registered doctor, surgeon and gastroenterologist. He did not have clinical appointment at the Royal Free, he was a researcher. He was a not a paediatrician and you are right, he did not personally examine children. But the parents wanted him to give his opinion on their children’s condition, as he was such a renowned gastroenterologist. That’s one of the reasons why they had to rope Walker-Smith and Murch into the GMC farago, because whatever Wakefield was supposed to have done he could not have done without them.

  • ciaparker2

    There was no fraud committed by anyone involved, except of course by Brian Deer and his phantom employers, who brought the disciplinary action against these innocent doctors on his own recognizance, then lied. When asked who had paid him to attend so many hours for so many months of the GMC proceeding, he said the Sunday Times of London and a television channel. When they were asked if this were true, they denied having paid him for this, saying he was a freelance journalist that they had paid on occasion, but he was not a regular employee, and they had not paid him for this. So who do you think did?

  • CassandraofDelphi

    What an idiotic comment! Individual stories are part of the body of evidence. Not one or two but thousands of parents report regression after vaccination and that is body of evidence backed up by the research of independent scientists.

  • CassandraofDelphi

    Oh, what relief! Thimerosal only contains ethyl-mercury that can be “easily” metabolized. Can you define easily because it is not a scientific term? For your information, all forms of mercury is dangerous. Ethyl-mercury is taken up by cells and is converted to inorganic mercury that stays in the body for months or even years. Only an idiot or pharma shill would try to defend mercury in vaccines.

  • bpatient

    However, you wrote: “[the parents of the Lancet children] had taken them to Dr. Wakefield as an expert in the field. They agreed with the examinations he carried out in an attempt to diagnose and arrive at a treatment plan for their children, and continue to be grateful for his concerned and considerate treatment of their children.”

    So we now agree that since Wakefield didn’t examine, diagnose, or treat the children, none of that is true.

  • bpatient

    “The guy who says infants can safely get 10,000 vaccines at once and no harm would come to them?”

    Are you merely repeating the words of someone who is either fundamentally dishonest or profoundly ignorant, or did you do this on your own?

    I suggest that you read Dr. Offit’s paper. He clearly indicates that the immune system could easily handle exposure to the number of antigens in 10,000 vaccines, not that “infants can safely get 10,000 vaccines at once.”

    If you have to distort or even fabricate someone’s position to support your own, its a clear sign that you recognize the weakness of your argument.

  • bpatient

    Gee, “nanomolecule per million” sounds so . . . sciency. Did you just make that up?

  • courageandhope

    According to Dr. Wakefield in his well-documented book, “Callous Disregard, Autism and Vaccines – the Truth Behind a Tragedy” (Skyhorse Publishing: NY 2010), the press conference was held at the behest of his employer, Dean Arie Zuckerman of the Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine in London, under whose auspices the research had been performed. “Zuckerman saw media attention as being a positive thing for the medical school…” “Callous Disregard,” Ch. 6, “The Dean’s Press Briefing,” p. 83). The GMC had not charged fraud; fraud was not the basis for the GMC hearing or decision. Ch. One “That Paper,” p. 16. Dorit, don’t believe everything you read in the media; the media has told only one side of this story. Dr. Wakefield’s book, “Callous Disregard,” The AutismFile.com, Age of Autism.com, the parents of the kids the Wakefield team treated (www.cryshame.com, “Silenced Witnesses”), the youtube “Selective Hearing” are sources from which you can hear the other side and discern where the truth lies. The issue of vaccine safety is too important to be swept under the rug. It is the truth that best protects children.

  • courageandhope

    NPR is funded by Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and you will not hear unbiased vaccine information there. NPR is always pro-vax.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I admit that I am somewhat skeptical of Andrew Wakefield’s claim in Callous Disregard, having run into several that are problematic myself and in addition finding others in this detailed, careful analysis of several of Mr. Wakefield’s claims in that book: http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tovacj/articles/V006/TOVACJ20131126002.pdf. It is certainly the truth that best protects children, which is why Callous Disregard is not a good source of information on vaccines.

    The GMC’s decision was based on ethical violations, including misrepresenting an ethics committee approval – and Judge Mittings, to remind you, found that Andrew Wakefield misrepresented that approval in this paper – behind his co-authors’ back.

    The point about the Press Conference was that Andrew Wakefield made unsupported statements in it – statements he repeated later.

  • Dorit Reiss

    The fraud claims are detailed with documentation in this BMJ series: http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347.

  • ciaparker2

    Well, isn’t that convenient, to say that judges and law courts could not possibly consider the evidence and conclude that vaccines obviously did the damage. No, only pharmadroids controlled by their pharma masters could possibly be qualified to opine on the safety of their products. Again, Wakefield was not part of the lawsuit brought before Mitting by Walker-Smith and Murch against the GMC et al.If he had been, he would have been exonerated as well, but his insurance would not pay for it
    Kind of writhing desperately, aren’t we? Hannh was so normal until the fateful day of the vaccines that she was chosen to be a role model, a typical peer, in a special needs preschool class. Her language and social skills were above average for her age. But, dang, as soon as she got five shots against nine diseases in one day, Jul 19, 2000, she got a fever and prolonged crying two days after all the shots, small red dots on her chest. Two days back at the doctor’s with a fever, diarrhea, earache. Two days later still had diarrhea On Nov. 27, back with diarrhea, vomiting, fatigue, and a rash. Dec. 14, doctor reported speech delay, first sign of autism. Feb 8, 2001, neurologist Zimmerman cont’d

  • courageandhope

    In his Preface to “Callous Disregard,” Dr. Peter Fletcher, Ex-Principal Medical Officer in the UK, begins: “My first comment on this excellent book is in respect of whether or not this whole catastrophe (the Urabe vaccine scandal) could have been avoided by action taken years earlier than the Lancet paper. By about 1987 in the UK, product license submissions for three MMR vaccines had been initiated and were the subject of discussion by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI). My past position of Principal Medical Officer with responsibility for the main Committee on Safety of medicines (CSM) and its sub-committees leads me to the conclusion that a great deal could have been done….” There was inadequate safety surveillance of the clinical trials in the UK and at least 35 cases of “autism” officially reported by 1993 according to Dr. Fletcher. Second, Dr. Fletcher emphasizes the importance of “positive rechallenge” as evidence of causation in absence of other equivalent and credible causes. Third, anaphylaxis as a serious adverse effect of vaccination has been “much neglected and carefully avoided when mortality of vaccines is discussed…” While contraceptives have been “evaluated more intensely than any other group of medicinal products both in humans and animals….vaccines have been minimally investigated and there seems to be no hope of an improvement in the future.” Fourth, he discusses his despair at the “medical and scientific ignorance” of lawyers involved on both sides in GMC vs Wakefield, Walker-Smith, and Murch. Fifth, with regard to the clinical picture of the children treated by the Royal Free, Dr. Fletcher perceives a “complex new syndrome….It may be that two or just possibly three different pathological processes are involved, but the root cause has to be a single initiating factor – almost certainly vaccines.” Dr. Fletcher, Preface, “Callous Disregard, Autism and Vaccines – the Truth Behind a Tragedy.” (Skyhorse Publishing: NY 2010).

  • ciaparker2

    recorded that an encephalopathy progressed to persistent loss o preiously acquired language, eye contact, and relatedness. Disruption in sleep patterns, persistent screaming and arching, diarrhea. He diagnosed her with persistent encephalopathy with features consistent with ASD after 18 months of normal development.
    Of COURSE you people are going to try to deny everything. Normal people would say she was normal until the multivaxes, then almost immediately developed the symptoms now all too familiar from so many hundreds of thousands of children who did almost exactly the same thing after vaxes, end result autism. Gerberding admitted that some children regress into autism if they get a fever after a vax. You people try to say she had a “rare” mitochondrial disorder, that turns out to be in 85% of the autistic children tested, not rare at all. Many believe that the vaccines CAUSE the mito dysfunction, rather than the other way around. A recent study showed how the hep-B vaccine causes mito dysfunction. And there’s NOTHING better at causing mito dysfunction than the mercury in thimerosal, as it binds so tightly to the electron transporting system of mitochondria that it causes oxidative stress and many of the biochemical abnormalities that are autism. Hannah, as well as hundreds of thousands of other children, were completely normal, walking, talking, socializing, developing normally, before the vaxes: after them they fall apart. The rate is now one in 36 American children. Are you saying that measles and mumps, chickenpox and pertussis, are SO dangerous to SO many (remember, I’ve had them all), that it’s worth permanently disabling a third of the childhood population for life in a desperate attempt to prevnt these usually mild diseases? Why would that be? Could it be the (gasp) billions of dollars in vaccine revenue worldwide?

  • courageandhope

    Yes I suppose it IS unethical to offer opinions as a professional on matters about which you are insufficiently informed, in a public forum.

  • courageandhope

    Then why not post to a google cite supporting your claim.

  • ciaparker2

    Gee, are all scientists so snarky when they’re cornered? In the context of brain development, Mark Noble and his colleagues found that precursor cells isolated from the developing central nervous system are more sensitive to thimerosal and methylmercury than are such differentiated cell types as neurons and astrocytes (the major support cell in the brain), with sensitivity extending down to exposure levels of 5-10 parts per billion. Mark Noble provided data in his IOM presentaton that thimerosal exposure reduced the survival of neuroglial precursor cells at concentrations in the range of 20-50 nanomolar, which is equivalent to 4-10 parts per billion. These appear to be cliinically relevant exposure levels, as infant monkeys exposed to thimerosal at the levels provided by the infant vaccine schedule had brain concentrations of mrcury ranging from 10-20 parts per billion for prolonged periods after the injection. (Burbacher “Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosl,” 2005.

  • courageandhope

    Comments that don’t jive with “official” policy get deleted, apparently. I just posted that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which contributes vast sums of money to world-wide vaccination programs, supports NPR, and NPR is pro-vax. The comment was up, then it disappeared. Put your link to the Verstraeten link up again, Ciaparker2, please. Anyone can look up “Simpsonwood” and see what Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. had to say about the CDC cover-up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIM2hwrLocOf course, Verstraeten changed his tune when a new job was in the offing for him.

  • bpatient

    Actually, the parents were directed to Wakefield because he had come to the attention of solicitors who hoped to sue MMR manufacturers because Wakefield had incorrectly claimed that a bowel disease was caused by measles virus and MMR, leading them to hope that Wakefield could identify an MMR-related bowel syndrome in children with autism.

    Wakefield had no experience in pediatric gastroenterology, but he had managed to generate false-positive results that incorrectly implicated measles virus in Crohn’s disease due to his use of a reagent that reacted not only with measles virus but also with a human gut protein, foreshadowing his ASD-related work. Just as in autism, Wakefield was undone by sloppy work, false-positive reactions, and his own ambitions.

  • ciaparker2

    Thanks, Courage, what a great video! I hope innocent people just researching trying to learn as much as they can before making the vaccine decision have realized that they need to go to many different sources, and certainly not stop at party line sources on display here.

  • bpatient

    I suppose that before you post again you might want to investigate when neuroglial precursor cells are active compared to the time frame in which vaccines are administered.

  • ciaparker2

    Wasn’t my comment here about how there has been no large study to scan infants’ brains every day for a month post vaxes to see if they have brain inflammation? It’s actually quite common, which is one big reason for the huge increase in autism, ADHD, seizure disorders, and leaning and behavioral disabilities. You said there didn’t need to be such a study as everyone “knows” this does not happen, the cause of these new high rates of neurological disorders is completely unknown (you say with your fingers crossed behind your back).

  • Josh Mazer

    Dorit Reiss writtes: “When a parent makes a choice for a child, the state has all the rights
    to step in and protect the child against a parent’s decision to leave
    that child exposed to preventable diseases, to risks to her health and
    life”

    Being born creates a risk to life and health. China for years had a policy that protected female children from risks to life and health- they drown them in a bucket the second they were born. Under the “one family one child” policy, newborns were systematically mass murdered by the government. No more risks to life and health, the government solved the problem. How does that sound, Dorit? Pretty good, huh? How many collateral deaths are acceptable in your government enforced involuntary medical intervention policy? Any more than one and you are no different from the Chinese ob-gyn who drops the girl in the bucket. Precisely, exactly, morally the same. How many cases of narcolepsy are acceptable? How many cases of ADEM? Who decides? You, right, Dorit?

    The idea of state power to enforce involuntary medical interventions mirrors China’s one child one family policy in the final analysis. Why stop at risk of infectious disease? There are many, many “risks to health and life” to which children are exposed by parents. For example, swimming. In the ocean- drowning and shark attack. In pools- disease and drowning. Riding in cars exposes children to risk. The state should have the powere to take those kids away too, right?

    Well……maybe not. Reiss wants the state to have the power to step in only when the parents’ action expose the kid to risk… and……threaten the profit stream of the industry that pays her. Any and all other risks are simply not on her radar screen- not her agenda.

    Reiss is moving the vaccine debate to where she wants it to go- not about public health and safety- but about the power of the state to round up and force compulsory medical procedures on citizens. Like they did in China. For public health and safety.

  • bpatient

    “It wouldn’t take much for Dr.Wakefield to get his license back here in the US anyway, and the day will come for that as well.”

    Ah, so when you wrote that “it wouldn’t take much for Dr.Wakefield to get his license back here in the US” you actually knew that Wakefield had never had a license to practice in the US and so clearly could not “get his license back here in the US” but you posted nonsense that you knew to be false anyway?

    Got it.

  • Jon W

    You don’t need a conspiracy when a lousy website will do. My comments supporting vaccines have been lost too. I just repost them.

    V’s study is interesting. What’s more interesting is the larger and better controlled study he later ran was negative.

  • Jon W

    So no peer review. Without the body of the article, I can’t comment other than to say it’s worthless, neither right nor wrong.

    He did publish a later study where he found no link between thimerosal vaccines.

    And really, again with the conspiracy. There are plenty of journals that will, and still do, publish these studies.

  • Jon W

    Yes or no: did he have IRB approval to take a convenience sample from a birthday party?

    Conspiratorial accusations are not proof. Anytime you find evidence you don’t like you just charge that it’s a conspiracy.

    It’s a great tool for avoiding cognitive dissonance, but it doesn’t further your argument at all.

    Make an argument and back it up with verifiable facts, not hand waving conspiracy accusations.

    Who exactly told whom to do what and when?

    Brian Deer did it. Why can’t AoA?

  • Jon W

    Counter factual argument – you can’t say what would have happened if he had appealed the decision.

    And, yet again, conspiracy mongering. Who exactly are these “pharma “masters”?

  • Jon W

    Anecdotes are not evidence and correlation is not causation.

    And please cite these “independent scientists”.

    And remember, any study from Wakefield is not independent.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I am sorry you see the decision to protect a child from potentially deadly diseases as equivalent to that of killing a child. Most parents, I am sure, will not fall into that trap. The slippery slope argument is not a reason not to allow the state to step in and afford reasonable protection to children. Just as it’s appropriate to prevent other forms of abuse and neglect, protecting children against medical neglect is a legitimate cause of action. There can be a reasonable debate on how much the state should intervene and where, and disagreement on specific cases, but the general principle – that a state may protect a child when her parents put her in danger – is not a new one, nor, for most reasonable people, a controversial one.

    Since the risk of vaccines are an order of magnitude smaller than the risks of not vaccinating (: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/D35CD18A3985212ECA2574E2000F9A4F/$File/quick_sideeffects.pdf;) there is a good argument that allowing parents to leave children exposed to the bigger risk of diseases is problematic. That was behind the Supreme Court’s words on the subject in Prince v. Massachusetts; and the principle still stands. It’s stronger when there’s an ongoing outbreak, but it’s true generally. States have a right, under our constitution, to protect children against their parents choice not to vaccinate. How far they go is a political question. http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/D35CD18A3985212ECA2574E2000F9A4F/$File/quick_sideeffects.pdf;, there is a good argument)

  • bpatient

    The anti-Santa shills funded by Big Reality are paid to post in an attempt to dilute the evidence: your earliest memories should not be modified based on abundant and more recent data: that wasn’t Daddy in the Santa suit.

  • Jon W

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12480426

    “Mean mercury doses in infants exposed to thiomersal were 45.6 microg (range 37.5-62.5) for 2-month-olds and 111.3 microg (range 87.5-175.0) for 6-month-olds. Blood mercury in thiomersal-exposed 2-month-olds ranged from less than 3.75 to 20.55 nmol/L (parts per billion); in 6-month-olds all values were lower than 7.50 nmol/L. Only one of 15 blood samples from controls contained quantifiable mercury. Concentrations of mercury were low in urine after vaccination but were high in stools of thiomersal-exposed 2-month-olds (mean 82 ng/g dry weight) and in 6-month-olds (mean 58 ng/g dry weight). Estimated blood half-life of ethylmercury was 7 days (95% CI 4-10 days).

    Administration of vaccines containing thiomersal does not seem to raise blood concentrations of mercury above safe values in infants. Ethylmercury seems to be eliminated from blood rapidly via the stools after parenteral administration of thiomersal in vaccines.”

    Further, thimerosal has been removed from most vaccines (other than flu). If thimerosal were linked to autism, than a decline in the rate would have been seen after removing it.

  • Jon W

    So common there’s no proof that it happens. Funny.

  • Jon W
  • Jon W

    Any citations for these claims?

  • bpatient

    Curious, isn’t it, that Wakefield ignored the Urabe mumps aspect of MMR and instead chose to focus on his favorite topic, measles infection of the gut, based on the false-positive assay results he obtained using a reagent that reacted not only with measles virus but with a human protein? I wonder how Wakefield’s choice was related to his patent application and to the companies that he founded to profit from litigation-driven research.

  • Jon W

    WHy didn’t you cite the Noble article?

  • Jon W

    Any evidence to back up your conspiracy?

  • Benjamin Ashraf

    Where is your evidence for this? Or do you like criticizing people for trying to help children?

  • ciaparker2

    What I was citing was from an IoM presentation, not an article, but let me look for a similar article for you. Actually, the presentation seems to be available as an article. Sorry. “Redox Modulation of Cellular Function: Cellular and Mechanistic Analyses,” IoM presentation on Autism and the Environment: Challenges and Opportunities for Research, April 18, 2007. This is all from Blaxill and Olmsted’s work, by the way. Standing on the shoulders of giants.
    Here’s another point of interest: vaccination is dependent on creating an alteration in cytokine imbalance that enhances response to the pathogen of interest. But when thimerosal is administered in animal models, there is first a suppression and then a stimulation of the immune response. (Parran and Ehrich, “Effects of Thimerosal on NGF Signal Transduction and Cell Death in Neuroblastoma Cells,” Toxicol Sci, 2005, 86(1): 132-40. Toxic effects were concentrations of 10-100 nanomolar.

  • Benjamin Ashraf

    What research do you have to support your claims?

  • ciaparker2

    One more, for now. A team led by Isaac Pessah of the MIND Institute demonstrated that both immature and mature dendritic cells are exquisitely sensitive to thimerosal. Pessah’s team demonstrated that thimerosal disrupted both redox balance and other signaling channels at parts per billion (or nanomolecular) concentrations. (Goth et al, “Uncoupling of ATP-mediated Calcium Signaling and Dysregulatred Interleukin-6 Secretion in Dendritic Cells by Nanomolar Thimerosal,” Envirn Health Perspect, 2006, 114(7); 1083-91. Toxic effects were observed at concentrations of 20 to 40 nanomolar.

  • ciaparker2

    Because “experts” are absolutely not to be trusted on the subject of vaccines.

  • Jon W

    Any evidence to back that naked assertion up?

    Let me guess: big pharma, the CDC, and the reverse vampires.

  • Benjamin Ashraf

    Referencing anything from age of autism is hardly evidence. You are quick to say that scientific studies should not be trusted because of the “big-pharma” conspiracy. However you want individuals to believe an organization who existence is predicated on the myth that vaccines cause autism. Furthermore AofA, Joseph Mercola, Mike Adams, and Andrew Wakefield all try to profit from parents by spreading mis-information.

  • Jon W

    In a petri dish. You can kill anything in a petri dish.

  • ciaparker2

    Again, the party line you hold could not be further from the truth. Nothing is more effective than mercury at inducing oxidative stress, which is identified by exceptionally high mitochondrial dysfunction. Over 85% of autistic children who have been tested have been diagnosed with mito dysfunction. (SJ James “Metabolic biomarkers of increased oxidative stress and impaired methylation capacity in children with autism, “Am J Clin Nutr, 2004 Dec; 80(6):1611-17.) As I said befoe, the tight binding of mercury to the electron transporting system of mitochondria has been proven to cause high production of toxic abnormalities found most often in children with autism. (R. Nataf, “Porphyrinuria in Childhood Autistic Disorder: Implications for Environmental Toxicty,” Toxicol. Appl Phar 2006 Jul 15; 214(2):99-108.)

  • ciaparker2

    In addition to oxidative stress, thimerosal and mercury will suppress the immune system (Rampersad, “Chemical compounds that target thiol-disulfide groups on mononuclear phagocytes inhibit immune mediated phagocytosis of red blood cells,” Transfusion, 2005 Mar; 45(3): 384-93. ) They will decrease methyl-B12 production and, among other things, the proper chemical modification of DNA and RNA (Waly “Activation of methionine synthase by insulin-like growth factor-1 and dopamine: a target for neurodevelopmental toxins and thimerosal,” Mod Psych, 2005 Apr; 9(4):358-70) They will cause membrane-tight junctions to become leaky, leading to intestinal dysbiosis (Usatyuk, “Redox regulation of 4-hydroxy-2-nonenal-mediated endothelial barrier dysfunction by focal adhesion, adherens, adherens, and tight junctions proteins,” J Biol Chem, 2006 Nov 17; 281(46):35554-66). They will decrease molybdenum levels, which leads to higher sulfite and lower sulfate levels (Waring “Sulphur metabolism in autism,” J Nutr Environ Med 2000, 10(1):25-32). They lead to abnormal myelination of the nervous system and corresponding neurological damage (such as my brachial plexus neuropathy the day of a tetanus booster and MS) (ibid) And I assure you, patienz, that I’m not making it up.

  • Jon W

    From the intro to the study you just cited: “Human studies do not show a significant association between the use of thimerosal-containing vaccines and the development of autism in children.”

    Further, this study was done in a petri dish. If you take a hatchet to someone skull, then administer a vaccine to the exposed neural tissue, this study would apply.

  • Jon W

    You mean can I prove a negative?

    Substantiate your own claims.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Neither of the two studies referenced by Ms. Parker have nothing to do with mitochondrial disorders. In contrast, these two studies that did look at mitochondrial mutations found no connection to autism:

    1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21404085

    2. http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2350-12-50.pdf

    As explained above, studies of thimerosal and vaccines found no connection between thimerosal and autism. See also this study: prenatal mercury exposure not related to autism

    http://journals.lww.com/epidem/Abstract/publishahead/Autism_Spectrum_Disorder_Phenotypes_and_Prenatal.99378.aspx.

  • Jon W

    And yet ethylmercury can’t pass the blood brain barrier and attack mitochondria in the brain.

    Just read over the first article you linked to. The words “mitochondria”, “mercury”, “vaccine”, “85%”, “dysfunction” do not appear in the article. Why did the you the SJ James article?

    The second study doesn’t mention vaccines at all.

  • bpatient

    “You can kill anything in a petri dish.”

    By adding water.

  • bpatient

    That would be more interesting if it was not already clear that exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines did not did not cause an epidemic of autism. That failed hypothesis was based on a fundamentally-flawed and US-centric interpretation of a limited data set, and it has been thoroughly refuted by more recent and abundant data.

    But you knew that.

  • Benjamin Ashraf

    The individual I replied to was alluding to a conspiracy that people who advocate for vaccinations are only doing it because they support drug companies and not because they are beneficial. These accusations are what is fueling the mistrust in people about vaccines.

  • Twylaa

    The Merck label says that their MMR causes both “febrile” and “afebrile” seizures/convulsions.

    It is ridiculous to argue that vaccines can cause febrile seizures but not seizure disorders, encephalitis and encephalopathy but not autism.

    Too many people have seen it happen: a round of vaccines followed by fever, sometimes seizures, and then regression into autism, often accompanied by seizures and IBD.

    We really don’t know how often this happens, as the tracking is so poor, reporting to VAERS is voluntary, and these reactions are usually denied as coincidence and not studied.

  • Twylaa

    And yes, your support for the state making vaccine decisions and overriding parent rights is scary, especially because mainstream medicine and govt agencies are so quick to dismiss valid concerns. Especially heart wrenching are reports from parents who describe their children having serious vaccine reactions but then being cajoled or coerced into allowing further vaccines, based on the insistence that the reactions were only coincidences — resulting in longterm disability after even worse adverse reactions to subsequent vaccines. And children such as Hannah Poling who are given numerous vaccines at once, because of the doctor insisting on “catching up” after vaccines were delayed due to illness or other good reasons.

  • Twylaa

    You think the govt does not have “massive legal resources”?

  • Twylaa

    Injection is different from ingestion. We have mechanisms for filtering out much of the toxins in what we eat. As this 1913 Nobel prize winner Charles Richet concluded, “We are so constituted that we can never receive other proteins into the blood than those that have been modified by digestive juices. Every time alien protein penetrates by effraction, the organism suffers and becomes resistant. This resistance lies in increased sensitivity, a sort of revolt against the second parenteral injection…”
    http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1913/richet-lecture.html

    He also noticed that, just as dogs have different personalities, so do they have different immune systems, with some much more prone to strong reactions than others.

  • Twylaa

    Here is a larger excerpt from that article by Dr. Offit. He discusses this in the context of whether too many vaccines overwhelm the immune system, and concludes that “if 11 vaccines were given to infants at one time, then about 0.1% of the immune system would be ‘used up.’” The implication is clearly that it is ok to give lots of vaccines at once, based on a mathematical calculation. This is ridiculous and reckless.

    DO VACCINES “OVERWHELM” THE IMMUNE SYSTEM?

    Infants Have the Capacity to Respond to an Enormous Number of Antigens

    Studies on the diversity of antigen receptors indicate that the immune system has the capacity to respond to extremely large numbers of antigens. Current data suggest that the theoretical capacity determined by diversity of antibody variable gene regions would allow for as many as 109 to 1011 different antibody specificities.38 But this prediction is limited by the number of circulating B cells and the likely redundancy of antibodies generated by an individual.

    A more practical way to determine the diversity of the immune response would be to estimate the number of vaccines to which a child could respond at one time. If we assume that 1) approximately 10 ng/mL of antibody is likely to be an effective concentration of antibody per epitope (an immunologically distinct region of a protein or polysaccharide),39 2) generation of 10 ng/mL requires approximately 103 B-cells per mL,39 3) a single B-cell clone takes about 1 week to reach the 103 progeny B-cells required to secrete 10 ng/mL of antibody39 (therefore, vaccine-epitope-specific immune responses found about 1 week after immunization can be generated initially from a single B-cell clone per mL), 4) each vaccine contains approximately 100 antigens and 10 epitopes per antigen (ie, 103 epitopes), and 5) approximately 107 B cells are present per mL of circulating blood,39 then each infant would have the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10 000 vaccines at any one time (obtained by dividing 107 B cells per mL by 103 epitopes per vaccine).

    Of course, most vaccines contain far fewer than 100 antigens (for example, the hepatitis B, diphtheria, and tetanus vaccines each contain 1 antigen), so the estimated number of vaccines to which a child could respond is conservative. But using this estimate, we would predict that if 11 vaccines were given to infants at one time, then about 0.1% of the immune system would be “used up.”

    However, because naive B- and T-cells are constantly replenished, a vaccine never really “uses up” a fraction of the immune system. For example, studies of T-cell population dynamics in HIV-infected patients indicate that the human T-cell compartment is highly productive. Specifically, the immune system has the ability to replenish about 2 billion CD4+ T lymphocytes each day. Although this replacement activity is most likely much higher than needed for the normal (and as yet unknown) CD4+ T-cell turnover rate, it illustrates the enormous capacity of the immune system to generate lymphocytes as needed.

  • Twylaa

    Dorit, that’s not fraud. That’s differences of opinions. That was Dr. Wakefield’s sincerely held belief based on all his work, research, and experiences – not fraud.

    Now scientists won’t speak out in favor of this hypothesis out of fear of being “Wakefielded” — professional suicide.

  • Twylaa

    Wakefield did not ignore the Urabe mumps part of the MMR. As I recall, he discusses it in this lecture:

    Not quite what I was looking for, but a good contemporaneous article:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-171779/MMR-true-facts.html

  • Twylaa

    Bogus fraud claims laid out by reporter Brian Deer, who had an agenda.

  • Twylaa

    No, he did not falsify any data.

  • Twylaa

    Walker-Smith did not throw Dr. Wakefield under the bus. He simply did not want the MMR-autism link to be the topic of the court case. And controversy over the MMR-autism link was not the stated reason for these doctors to lose their licenses, although it was the real reason – the rest was simply trumped up.

  • Twylaa

    Typo -
    Of course, I meant “gold standard”, not “god standard”.

  • Twylaa

    Dorit, you often say things that are inconsistent, contradictory. For example, you express concern that there are lots of unvaccinated children and say that we need stronger government mandates to force vaccination because so many are not vaccinating, but then you say there are not enough unvaccinated children to do a study comparing health outcomes among vaxed and unvaxed.

    Yes, that German study only had less than 100 unvaccinated children – too few to compare percentages of vaccinated and unvaccinated children with autism.

  • Twylaa

    That’s not true, John Lockwood. If there is such a study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated please link to it.

  • Twylaa

    Yes, the govt does not want to make that statement. Sometimes the govt can’t avoid compensating a case of vaccine-induced autism, but it tries to stay away from the word “autism” and focus on the underlying medical diagnosis such as encephalitis, encephalopathy, mitochondrial disorder, ADEM, etc. So, for example, the vaccine caused ADEM which caused autism, but the vaccine did not cause autism.
    R-i-i-i-i-g-h-t!

  • Twylaa

    Again -
    Yes, the govt does not want to make that statement. Sometimes the govt can’t avoid compensating a case of vaccine-induced autism, but it tries to stay away from the word “autism” and focus on the underlying medical diagnosis such as encephalitis, encephalopathy, mitochondrial disorder, ADEM, etc. So, for example, the vaccine caused ADEM which caused autism, but the vaccine did not cause autism.
    R-i-i-i-i-g-h-t!

  • Twylaa

    This paper surveys all the literature the authors could find
    regarding a possible link between autism and exposure to heavy metals such as
    mercury.


    “Sorting out the spinning of autism: heavy metals and the
    question of incidence”
http://www.ane.pl/pdf/7021.pdf


    They found that the majority of studies support a link
    between exposure to heavy metals and autism.

    Here is an interview with one of the authors:


    http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/08/autism-and-heavy-metals-an-interview-with-mary-catherine-desoto-phd.html

  • Twylaa

    The govt conceded this case to avoid setting a precedent as they knew they would lose in court. But they did review medical evidence. And about 80% of claims are denied, so it is not so easy for claimants to prevail. Anyone reading what I linked to above can see there is more to it than what you would have us believe.

  • Twylaa

    Dorit, that’s not what the ruling says. Read it again. Here’s an excerpt:

    “Medical personnel at the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation, Department of Health and Human Services (DVIC) have reviewed the facts of this case, as presented by the petition, medical records, and affidavits. After a thorough review, DVIC has concluded that compensation is appropriate in this case.

    “In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder…”

  • Twylaa

    If you look on the HRSA table you don’t see, “significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder”.

    http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccinetable.html

  • Twylaa

    Yes, it is unfair and they turn down about 80% of claims and even when claims are accepted it can take years for necessary items to be paid for, e.g. a wheelchair for a child with paralysis.

    But sometimes they do accept claims, and the fact that they turn down so many means they must have some really good evidence to accept a few, otherwise they’s deny those too.

  • Jon W

    So what you’re saying is that the evidence doesn’t exist to back up your claim.

    Got it.

    And yes, there is a difference between a seizure and seizure disorder. But only if you think about it.

  • Jon W

    So quick? This has been studied for well over a decade.

    No reliable evidence (‘evidence’ that disappears when you look at it more closely is not evidence).

  • Jon W

    My preferred method: http://xkcd.com/1217/

  • Jon W

    Any evidence to back up your naked assertion?

    Let me guess: big pharma conspiracy.

  • Jon W

    Hmm, I think I’ve got it.

    There’s no e-v-i-d-e-n-c-e that v-aaaaa-c-i-n-e-s cause a-u-t-i-s-m.

    Did that help? No.

    Perhaps the problem is your misunderstanding of the vaccine court.

  • Jon W

    Unless you talk to the parent’s the Lancet 12.

    It’s like he had a profit motive to get rid o the MMR and replace one part of it with a single shot vaccine he had developed.

  • Jon W

    Citation please. Prove it was trumped up.

  • Jon W

    Yes, Wakefield did commit professional suicide – suicide by fraud.

    Good thing there was a soft blanket of fear mongering to land on.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Injection is different than ingestion, true. The sources above do address injection. And as noted, among the findings is that getting the vaccines on the schedule does not change the level of aluminum in infants blood.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Since the question of what vaccines cause is an empirical question, and not a hypothetical question, the question is what does the evidence show. It’s not about logic – it’s about reality. The evidence is very clear: vaccines cause febrile seizures (as can any fever); they do not cause seizure disorder. The causation evidence on encephalitis and encephalopathy is actually not so clear and now in doubt; but the evidence on autism is very, very clear – studies looked and found no link between vaccines and autism.
    For parents who are interested, a good book is “Do Vaccines Cause That”, by Martin G. Myers and Diego Pineda. It covers many topics and marshals the scientific evidence.

  • Dorit Reiss

    “Not FoundThe requested URL /pdf/7021.pdf
 was not found on this server.

    Apache/1.3.41 Server at ane.pl Port 80″

    I did find it, however. When a review paper uncritically includes extremely bad science, it’s review is problematic. A review paper is only as good as its selection criteria. This paper includes the articles by the Geiers, known for chemically castrating children as well as for flawed, horrible science: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2013/10/20/looking-back-at-two-decades-of-geier/
    It also ignored many, many of the studies of autism and vaccines, like the Danish study.

    It also presents the Soden paper but dismisses its results, which were ““In the absence a proven novel mode of heavy metal toxicity, the proportion of autistic participants in this study whose DMSA provoked excretion results demonstrate an excess chelatable body burden of As, Cd, Pb, or Hg is zero.”. Basically, for this and a number of other studies they had to present the conclusions in a different light than in the paper.

    In short, the review did a problematic job in choosing articles and seemed to analyze the articles it did chose in a biased manner. No wonder it concluded differently than the scientific consensus.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I’m not sure why giving lots of vaccines at once seems to you “ridiculous and reckless”, when the science supports it. It’s clearly not how immunologists see it. And multiple vaccines does not mean multiple needles. You can have six vaccines in one injection.
    If the data – and to remind you, each vaccine will have to be tested in concomitant studies, showing it’s safe with the rest of the schedule – supports safety, what exactly is your objection?

  • Dorit Reiss

    Saying different things in different contexts is not being inconsistent. It’s addressing the relevant context. For a vaccinated v. unvaccinated study, you need large numbers of completely unvaccinated children that are sufficiently concentrated or accessible to study and sufficiently heterogenous to allow controlling for confounders.
    For outbreaks, you need a concentration of children not vaccinated against a disease that creates a susceptible population. And you may need a much smaller number than you’d need for a meaningful study.
    Different contexts, different needs.

  • Dorit Reiss

    When the government does not compensate a case because a vaccine caused autism, you cannot use that case as evidence that vaccines cause autism.
    If a vaccine caused encephalitis, ADEM etc’ and that the relevant child also had autism it does not mean the vaccine caused the autism. There are children with autism in the population. Some of them may also suffer a vaccine injury. Latching on the fact that a small number of children who got vaccine injury also has autism does not make the cases about autism.
    And if the cases were not compensated on the claim that the vaccine caused autism, they are not evidence of the link. And presenting them as if they were is problematic.

  • courageandhope

    Article, “Does Gates funding of media taint objectivity?” Sandi Doughton and Kristi Holm, The Seattle Times, 2/19/11, modified 2/23/11. “Better known for its battles against global disease, the Gates Foundation has also become a force in journalism. The foundation’s contributions to nonprofit and for-profit media have helped spur coverage of global health, development and education issues. But some people worry that its growing support of media organizations blurs the line between journalism and advocacy….” digital portals blend the line between journalism and spin…. the advocacy side of the equation is essentially public relations: an attempt to influence decision-makers and sway public opinion….”

    “Even if we were to satisfy ourselves that the Gates Foundation were utterly benign, it would still be worrisome that they wield such enormous propaganda power,” said Mark Crispin Miller, professor of media, culture and communications at New York University.”

    Article is thought-provoking and well worth reading.

    http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2014280379_gatesmedia.html

  • Twylaa

    Not trivially so.

    Here is the 1983 schedule:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/images/schedule1983s.jpg

    Here is the 2013 schedule:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf

    Here are some charts comparing the current U.S. schedule with other countries and with history:
    http://vactruth.com/history-of-vaccine-schedule/

  • courageandhope

    Bpatient, you obviously have not read “Callous Disregard, Autism and Vaccines – the Truth Behind a Tragedy” (Skyhorse Publishing: NY 2010), Ch. 4, “The Whistleblower.” Urabe-containing MMR had caused neurological damage to children in Japan and Australia, and later on, in Brazil. Japan no longer gives the MMR.

    Here is an article where you can download the paper of Dr. Lucija Tomljenovic (“The Vaccination Policy and the Code of Practice of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunization (JCVI); Are They at Odds?”): “Third years of secret official transcripts show UK government experts cover up vaccine hazards.” March 14, 2012. http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/government-experts-cover-up-vaccine-hazards/

    It’s easy to throw around accusations of falsity, or present the patent application in a false light.

    This is an article on religious and ethical justifications for vaccine exemptions, but it’s far easier to attack Dr. Wakefield than to discuss informed choice, full disclosure of all risks and benefits, a person’s right to say no to injection of foreign substances into his body (A baby or child is too young to give such consent.) The Nuremberg Code which protects humans from medical experimentation without informed consent was deemed necessary after the Nazis allowed pharmaceutical companies to experiment on concentration camp victims during WWII.

    Yet how do you try out new vaccines if you do not experiment on people with them? It is an ethical dilemma.

  • ciaparker2

    Jenny saw his severe reactions, as I saw them in my daughter, as many anti-vax commenters have seen them in their children. It would be immoral of us NOT to tell people what happened to us, warn them to do a LOT of research before risking the same thing happening to their families. We are NOT spending huge chunks of our lives online hoping to kill babies, but rather hoping to save them.

  • ciaparker2

    And to the extent that he is anti-vaccine, I respect him the more.

  • ciaparker2

    So who cares? Just trying to discredit her by saying she’s kind of “New Age”? The important point is that many on your side have said that she retracted her “claim” that Evan had autism, when she has NEVER done so, and he was diagnosed with autism by the best experts at UCLA. Shouldn’t you say something about how much you regret the untruths which have been propagated about Jenny and Evan, and how glad you are that she appears to have successfully recovered him from autism?

  • ciaparker2

    85% of the autistic children who have been tested have been shown to have mito disorder. Studies have shown how vaccines can cause the disorder. Hannah’s parents believe the vaccines caused hers, rather than triggering a preexisting condition. Hannah was so normal up until those shots at 18 months that she was chosen to be a typical peer in a special needs preschool class, she was so precocious at speaking and socializing, all lost in her vaccine reaction. And if you believe that vaccines can trigger autism if someone has a latent mito disorder, then why do you not promote implementing mandatory screening for mito disorder before vaxing? There’s a simple blood test that gives reliable results without the need for a biopsy of any kind. Why madly forge ahead causing autism in one in 36 children rather than do a screening before vaxing? Same for HPV, why not screen girls before giving them the vax for prior exposure to HPV? It’s simple to do, and prior exposure greatly increases the risk of serious damage occurring after the vaccine.

  • ciaparker2

    See Gerberding/Gupta interview in which Gerberding admitted that vaccines caused her autism:

    http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2008/03/julie-gerberding-admits-on-cnn-that.html
    Not rare, most autistic children have it. If she hadn’t gotten the shots, she wouldn’t have gotten autism.How much clearer could that have been? I have mito disorder, very little energy and stamina, all people with MS have it. The mercury ih the vaccines I got caused first, the brachial plexus neuropathy, both arms being paralyzed the same day as the shot, thought to be caused by the new mercury in the tetanus vaccine interacting with old stored mercury, then MS, diagnosed with MRI. I had normal energy before, now I, like all people with MS, have very little. Vaccines caused my mito disorder, just as they cause it in huge numbers of vaccine recipients. You link to Science Blogs? Shill Central?

  • ciaparker2

    It truncated my link again.
    http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/
    2008/03/julie-gerberding- admits-on-cnn-that.html

  • ciaparker2

    No one misunderstands Kangaroo Court, designed to throw vaccine-damaged families out on the street. A congressional hearing into its abuses scheduled for November was cancelled by the pharma clout of certain parties we’re all familiar with.

  • ciaparker2

    Joh,

    Google this article by Handley (my hero, as you’ve probably gathered).

    Here’s the detail, from a CBS News report:

    “University of Pennsylvania’s Dr. Brian Strom, who has served on Institute of Medicine panels advising the government on vaccine safety says the prevailing medical opinion is that vaccines are scientifically linked to encephalopathy (brain damage), but not scientifically linked to autism.”

    Oh, thank God, vaccines won’t cause any autism. Brain damage I can live with. Thanks, Dr. Strom, for your service to the IOM–very helpful indeed.

  • ciaparker2

    Thanks, Twyla, you really did a yeoman’s labor last night. It really is like cutting off hydra heads.

  • ciaparker2

    Except that fevers NEVER used to cause autism. Nothing caused any autism anywhere before a handful who reacted to the smallpox vaccine in the nineteenth century. It picked up to two or three in every ten thousand reacting to vaccines or other mercury toxicity with autism from the 1930s on, then really speeded up with the vaccine epidemic from 1988 on, till now, with our tripling of the vaccine schedule, it’s one in every 36 children in the US.

  • ciaparker2

    Hepatitis B Vaccine Causes Mitochondrial Disorders and Cell Death

    Apoptosis. 2012 Jan 17. [Epub ahead of print]
    Hepatitis B vaccine induces apoptotic death in Hepa1-6 cells.
    Hamza H, Cao J, Li X, Li C, Zhu M, Zhao S.

  • ciaparker2

    Sort of like the damage control done to Verstraeten’s study? If you have enough money, you can arrange for any study results you want.

  • ciaparker2

    Read Evidence of Harm for more on this. Completely shocking how the government conspired to hide the evidence that vaccines were causing autism. Read it and then come back and tell me there was, and is, no evidence.

  • ciaparker2

    But it’s curious how this wall is falling. Micah Mazurek, one of your own, was allowed to publish, the newspaper article I read said she was the “first ever” to have realized, that autistic children often had GI disease as well. I looked it up on Wikipedia, which still says that most medical professionals still discredit Wakefield’s idea that autistic enterocolitis was common, the GI disease going along with the autism. It won’t be long before it is universally admitted that vaccines cause this syndrome of autism/bowel disease. The MMR is particularly bad, but my daughter has autism and GI disease from two other shots.

  • ciaparker2

    Links here to work replicating his research:

    http://vran.org/in-the-news/ dr-andrew-wakefield-the-medical-inquisition/

  • ciaparker2

    They’re still pushing Bettelheim’s refrigerator mother theory in France. They’ll do anything they can to get funding for trash studies that, it is hoped, will direct attention away from vaccines.

  • ciaparker2

    It wasn’t his patent. His hospital held the patent for a vaccine meant to avert measles after exposure had taken place, not at all like the vaccine meant to be given preemptively.
    Give me an example of a falsified timeline.

  • ciaparker2

    Who cares? He needed blood samples from healthy control children, he thought he could ask permission from the parents and children who came to his son’s birthday party. He got permission, he gave the boys who agreed, I think they all did, five pounds a piece for their trouble. No big deal, no one was harmed, he got the samples he needed. I don’t see any problem with this at all. You can’t find anything to criticize, so you’re grasping at meaningless straws.

  • ciaparker2

    Dr. Sears says it’s common, but doesn’t usually last long enough to cause brain damage. Its symptoms, besides my daughter’s prolonged, inconsolable screaming for 18 hours a day for four days and nights, le cri encéphalique, are things like somnolence and staring episodes. How many doctors impress on the parents that if they observe any of these symptoms in their recently vaxed child, it’s a medical emergency that could well cause brain damage or death in the child? They didn’t even give me the vaccine information sheet with signs of a reaction when they came in in the morning and told me they’d given my baby the hep-B vax, which I had said I didn’t want her to get. Stacy Herlihy, shill extraordinaire, said in her book (see, I read both sides) that her baby screamed like this starting four hours after her first DTaP shot, but only for maybe half an hour. Harris Coulter believed that every American who had gotten the DPT shot after WWII (when it started) had been at least minimally brain damaged by the encephalitis, which is basically everyone but the Amish. We have NO IDEA how often it occurs because no one has tried to find out.

  • ciaparker2

    We’ve already been through this. Before 2004, it was not recommended that healthy children or pregnant women get the flu vaccine. After 2004, everyone stupid enough to comply with the schedule and just take the basic, multidose vial for the vaccine, and get it, God forbid, every year! continued to get and accumulate large amounts of mercury, 25 mcg per dose. The local supermarket at this moment is recommending full-mercury Fluzone for everyone but pregnant women and seniors, including babies and children. So that completely took up the slack of the DPT, hep-B, HIb, and so on, with mercury, in which mercury was reduced to “trace” amounts still ten times over the toxic waste limit. The mercury is moved out of the blood to be stored in the brain, which is why it is hard to test mercury levels in someone exposed some time previously. Autistic children who have metabolic problems detoxifying mercury actually have less mercury in their hair than typical children, because it was all stored in their brains.

  • ciaparker2

    ??

  • ciaparker2

    They have no word for autism or anything like it in their language, because it never occurred there, as it never occurred anywhere before vaccines.

  • ciaparker2

    Did you read the article, or the study? It was meticulously conducted, using, as Handley made clear, the same criteria as now, and found a tiny percentage of the autism we see now. They went back a couple of years later, 1989? and were dismayed to discover that there were two, count them, two, children who were autistic but whom they missed the first time.

  • ciaparker2

    Traditionally the Amish did not vaccinate, and they didn’t have any autism. Recently public health departments have made a huge outreach effort to persuade many to vaccinate their children, and among these vaccinated children, autism has appeared. One girl was taken from her parents because they didn’t want to give her antibiotics for an ear infection, and she was vaxed while in foster care. It caused her autism. She’s now back with her parents, who have stoically accepted that the state permanently damaged their daughter. A few Amish have adopted girls from China who arrived pre-vaccinated, and a few of them have autism. The one boy who lived near a mercury-producing electrical plant. That’s all. No autism among those Amish intelligent enough to steadfastly refuse vaccination.

  • ciaparker2

    That’s ridiculous. Wakefield had his hospital’s and Dr. Walker-Smith”s permission for the case series. He did not need permission to publish the Lancet article. But beyond all this, thousands of parents a year see their children regress into autism after the MMR (or other vaccines). If official channels had cared about the fate of the Lancet Twelve fifteen years ago, the minds of hundreds of thousands of children would have been spared.

  • ciaparker2

    So why was it that the GMC took the licenses of two men you admit were innocent?

  • ciaparker2

    Like mercury, the aluminum in vaccines is stored in the brain. Ever read about the aluminum tangles in the brains of Alzheimer’s victims? Another time, I’ll get the citation from the Sears book on aluminum in babies’blood shortly after vaccination (it moves to the brain after a while).

  • ciaparker2

    Please cite a study showing the safe outcome of giving an infant the antigens in 10,000 vaccines at once. If you can’t, then this is an unsupported, crazy and dangerous assertion.

  • ciaparker2

    But natural exposure is WAY different from vaccine exposure. The blood and brain were designed to be closed systems, with many filters to keep out dangerous invaders. The immune system goes crazy when things are injected into it, it has no idea how to react, often reacting with excessive inflammation or an autoimmune disease.

  • ciaparker2

    Vaccines inflict damage which is set into motion immediately, but may not manifest fully for days, months, or even years post-vax. Once you vax, you can’t ever nullify it or take it back.

  • ciaparker2

    There is no safe amount of mercury, but most people can compensate and manifest little overt damage. Read The Age of Autism for how mercury has affected many thousands for many centuries. Mercurochrome was never safe, it was taken off the market when it killed several newborns whose umbilical cords were treated with it. Mercury teething powders caused acrodynia, killing a bunch of small children who used it. Mercury treatment for syphilis killed a large percentage of the patients who got this standard treatment, and caused paralysis and dementia eventually in a large percentage. These days the mercury in vaccines still causes paralysis and dementia, but we call it Alzheimer’s now.

  • ciaparker2

    Another silly thing to say. Because the DTaP has fewer antigens than the DPT, though still has manyh other toxic ingredients, and there are MANY more vaccines given now for those foolish enough to comply, each with a large array of pathogens, ingredients like chemical preservatives or adjuvants, neomycin, foreign vegetable (peanut), animal, and human proteins, each one of them highly antigenic (an antigen is anything injected, not just weakened or killed pathogens), it is false to say there’s less load on the immune system now.

  • ciaparker2

    Wow, great comment, Josh, thanks!

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Typical anti-vacc,

    400+ postings and the anti-vaccs still have nothing that makes it through middle-school science….so you resort to conspiracies….clearly that is the best you have.

    W&N

  • ANB2013

    Wakefield started the vaccine/autism scare. The TV reporter linked one vaccine to encephalopathy. The first vaccine court case alleging vaccine-induced autism wasn’t filed until 1999 – one year after the Lancet paper.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Did read it,

    Not only does it not support your conspiracies, it is contrary to your assertions…just par for the anti-vaccs.

    W&N

  • ANB2013

    Kirby was paid $70,000 to write Evidence of Harm.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    What you have skipped over is that the BMJ article is an opinion piece; riddled with conceptual errors…too bad you are interested in the
    facts.

    W&N

  • ciaparker2

    The risk of vaccines is much greater than the risk of the diseases. In the thirties, doctors were already saying that pertussis had become so much milder, that there was no need to develop a vaccine for it. Smallpox had evolved after 1898 to become so much milder in the US that it no longer caused many deaths, and was often mistaken for chickenpox: the only deaths for the last decades before it was discontinued were from reactions to it. See Dr. Suzanne Humphries Dissolving Illusions. The polio vaccine is now causing tens of thousands of vaxed Indian children to become paralyzed. I was a child before the MMR, and we led happy, healthy lives without any of the subsequent vaccines. We all got measles and so on, but we all got over it with permanent immunity and no one had autism. We did not quiver in our houses afraid to go out for fear we’d catch a disease we now have deadly vaccines for. One in nine in the US childhood population with asthma now, one in ten allergies, one in

  • ANB2013

    How do you know Evan no longer has autism? Are we supposed to take somebody’s word for that?

  • White_and_Nerdy

    What a silly link,

    It is sensible for parents to seek information on the risk/benefits of any medical intervention.

    What makes smartvax and Twylaa anti-vaccs is they free to just make the science up as they go and to ignore their errors no matter how many times qualified scientist point them out.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Gosh Josh,

    Can’t help but notice you didn’t quote any qualified scientists supporting the book….that would be because it gets basically every single point wrong.

    W&N

  • ANB2013

    The hearing was cancelled with Darrell Issa suddenly realized he was being misled by a cabal of conspiracy mongers.

  • ciaparker2

    I read that that’s what she says, that Dr. Karzinsky’s biomedical treatments recovered him. I don’t know any more than that. The important thing is that it was the vaccines that caused his autism, without vaccines he wouldn’t have needed recovering. My daughter has not recovered at all.

  • Mike Stevens

    I see Anne Dachel, from the antivaccination propaganda website “Age of autism”, has arrived and spammed the comment thread with her posts (which she uses to spam every other media comment forum she finds on the net). Nice one Anne. Why not stick around next time and respond to some of the great comments rebutting your baseless opinions about vaccines?

  • Mike Stevens

    150 “scientists”, many of whom do not actually oppose vaccination, some of whom are dead, and some of whom are not even scientists in a relevant field.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    What is completely morally bankrupt is to post a link to
    mercury-free drugs without pointing out that their major activity for the last number of years has been filing bogus lawsuits alleging nonsense about vaccines.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    The Lancet paper is classic academic fraud….the facts have been provided to you in detail….even if you refuse to look at them, the facts don’t change.

    Yes EOH is very helpful.

    It demonstrates how the anti-vaccs prey upon scientifically illiterate
    folks like Kirby…it also demonstrates how no matter how many times the errors in the book are pointed out, the anti-vaccs just don’t care.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    And here is the number of times Twyla has ever asked a qualified scientist how to determine the safety of vaccines: zero.

    A clear demonstration that your true motivation is to criticize vaccines–not our children’s health.

    Oh….and your vactruth link couldn’t even count the number of vaccines correctly.

    W&N

  • ciaparker2

    Since he was a highly respected and admired gastroenterologist, top in his field, I also do not believe it would be that hard for him to be licensed here. You were silly with your verbal quibble: he had a license, if he wanted to get it back he could, if he got it in the U.S. he would be getting back his license, even though he had never had one in the U.S., only in the U.K.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Baloney is a kind word for the nonsense you posted,

    Your authors are just a couple of notorious anti-vacc advocates, with zero qualifications in toxicology or epidemiology. The paper is worse than rubbish.

    Since you refuse to answer the question, I will do if for you. You also refuse to consult with
    qualified scientists because you know that basically everything the anti-vaccs claim is wrong.

    You just don’t care.

    W&N

  • ciaparker2

    I echo Twyla. R-i-i-i-i-g-h-t!

  • ciaparker2

    Ethylmercury does pass the blood brain barrier and remain stored in the brain. To chelate it out, you have to use alpha lipoic acid, one of the few chelators that can pass the blood-brain barrier and latch on to the mercury in the brain and transport it out.

  • ciaparker2

    But thousands of parents have seen their children scream inconsolably for hours or days after a vaccine, and later be diagnosed with autism etc. To just say that you’re sure it wasn’t encephalitis and certainly didn’t cause the autism is just cowardly and unscientific. See Patti White’s congressional testimony in 1999 on how the hep-B vaccine caused encephalitis, caused autism in thousands of Missouri kindergartners. See Judy Converse When Your Doctor is Wrong: Hepatitis-B Vaccine and Autism. The same thing happened to her son as to my daughter, vax given without permission, they both reacted with encephalitis, both later diagnosed with autism. She provides a whole book filled with data, statistics, studies, expert testimony, supporting the deadly nature of the hep-B vaccine, which kills or disables thousands more children a year than it saves from hep-b. Before the vax at birth started in 1991, an average of only 360 children a year were diagnosed with it, most born to infected mothers. I was not infected, didn’t want it, didn’t need it. My daughter was just disabled for life to get a $20 bonus for compliance with state goals. Askiing permission would just insure lower compliance, why bother?

  • Dorit Reiss

    Here’s what Hannah Polling’s mother said on AoA recently (and got viciously attacked by other commentators for): http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/11/rolf-hazlehurst-on-vicp-at-congressional-briefing.html

    (scroll down to Terry Polling’s comment):

    “It is deeply disturbing to me to be told that Mr. Hazlehurst is yet again discussing my daughter Hannah Poling’s VICP case when he has been made aware on more than one occasion that he is making assumptions of fact that are completely incorrect.

    First, Dr. Zimmerman was not an expert nor was he asked to be an expert on Hannah Poling’s case. The government conceded her case before ANY opinion was rendered or given. When the government denied the seizures as part of her vaccine injury, we asked Dr. Zimmerman to opine on that issue. The vaccine injury had ALREADY been conceded. In addition, and I say this only because it is now public record, the government conceded a table injury. This essentially means that they did not have to determine whether or not the vaccines caused Hannah’s injury but that her case fit into the table.

    Second, Hannah Poling was listed as one of 20 potential test cases. We, her parents learned that she was going to be a test case the same way everyone else did…when the case was conceded. I had indicated that I wanted Hannah to be a test case or be taken out of the omnibus. This was because I was worried that no one was addressing the mitochondrial issue, which was key in her case. As can be seen by reviewing the test cases, mitochondrial disorder was never addressed.

    Third, I cannot speak for Dr. Zimmerman in any way. I am going to assume however, that when Mr. Hazlehurst indicates that Dr. Zimmerman diagnosed (Rolf’s) child with “regressive encephalopathy with features of Autistic Spectrum Disorder” which, he indicates is the same diagnosis Zimmerman gave Hannah, Rolf Hazlehurst must have also walked into Dr. Zimmerman’s office asserting that his child (Rolf’s) had been vaccinated and then regressed into ASD. I say this because that is what we did. We knew immediately that Hannah had an encephalopathy and when she had not improved in the acceptable 6 month period, we had her in to see Zimmerman. If this was not the case with Rolf Hazlehurst (and I frankly do not know whether it was or was not), then it is hard to understand why Rolf thinks Dr. Zimmerman or any other physician can read minds. I am not trying to say that the Hazlehurst’s should have known or could have known. It is only to say that if they did not connect the dots, how could they expect the physician to? The term “encephalopathy” has multiple causes as does “features of autism” or “autism.” The use of the term, “regressive encephalopathy with features of autistic spectrum disorder” does not state an etiology. That would need to be determined by history and or laboratory tests, etc.

    Finally, and perhaps for purposes of Rolf’s request that Hannah Poling’s records be released to the public, Jon and I have not allowed the release of Hannah’s records nor will we ever willingly allow third parties to tear apart her medical history which includes other close family members as well as things that should have never been in the record to begin with. This case was not litigated so there is very little to “see.” When a case is litigated, the judge and attorneys have an opportunity to redact material that would be inappropriate or an invasion of privacy for others. That did not nor can it happen in this case as it was not litigated.

    While I completely understand Rolf’s frustration with the VICP program and do commend his fight for justice for his son, I do not think it is appropriate or fair for him to continue to use my daughter (who is now a teenager and is able to see her name all over the internet in relation to autism and brain injury but incapable of understanding the meaning of the terms), for his own purpose. When Jon and I spoke out regarding our daughter’s case it was to try and shed light on the connection between autism and mitochondrial disorder. It seems to have helped some but it has come at a very high price—our privacy.

    Terry Poling
    mother of Hannah Poling”

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Thank you for the public service by demonstrating the true nature of the anti-vaccs.

    Here is the Indian gov’t site:

    http://www.npspindia.org/

    And just like every single time before, the anti-vaccs are just flat making things up when they assert that the vaccine is causing large numbers of kids to be paralyzed.

    We have now more than 2 decades of epidemiologists demonstrating how the “epidemic” of autism is an anti-vacc
    abrication–clearly you just don’t care.

    ” The risk of vaccines is much greater than the risk of the diseases.”

    What a Whopper!
    As you know very well, in recent years a number of countries like Japan, Sweden, UK….listened to the anti-vaccs and stopped vaccinating.

    In every case, after they got tired of burying their children, they resumed vaccinating again.

    We know with absolute certainty that the not vaccinating is much, much riskier than vaccinating.

    We also know that the anti-vaccs literally don’t care.
    W&N

  • Jon W

    File this one under arrogance of ignorance. The benefits of vaccines are so great that we’ve forgotten how awful vaccine preventable diseases are.

  • Jon W

    Non-sequitur, you’re not taking the government to court.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Twyla asserts:

    ” Even Merck’s MMR label says that the MMR can cause “afebrile convulsions or seizures”.”

    What the insert–not the label–actual says is:

    “The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, ***without regard to causality***,”

    Remember that an adverse reaction is anything bad that occurs after the vaccine was given….

    The only thing scary is that some children’s health is being risked based on dishonest anti-vacc propaganda.

    W&N

  • Jon W

    Charles Richet died in 1935. Hardly a credible source on an issue that arose 60-odd years after he died.

  • Jon W

    No, the mercury in vaccines does not penetrate the blood brain barrier – it does not get stored in the brain. The ethyl- group bonded to the mercury makes it too large. Unlike methylmercury, which is not in vaccines, but is in tuna sandwiches.

  • Jon W

    The absolute number of vaccines is greater, yes, but the antigen load is reduced. Better vaccines from the big pharma bogey men you blame for everything.

  • Jon W

    Offiit was not suggested to poke a child 10,000 times with 10,000 vaccines.

    You’re just being purposefully obstinate.

    The claim does stand, however, that vaccines overload the immune system.

  • Jon W

    Goes crazy?

    Please develop this “goes crazy” idea.

    Do you mean isolating and identifying an epitope and creating B-cells to attack this epitope should it ever present itself again?

    Not crazy, just everyday functioning.

  • Jon W

    Citation please.

  • Jon W

    You didn’t respond to DR’s comment, you just restated your assertion with a handful of off-point analogies.

  • Jon W

    An antigen is anything that produces an immune response. Saline is injected, but not an antigen.

    Again, wrong on the facts.

  • Jon W

    Ah, the argument from oral tradition. I think you invented a new logical fallacy.

  • Jon W

    The North Dakota study? No, it’s behind a paywall. Do you know of an open source for it?

  • Jon W

    Citation please.

  • Jon W

    Yeah, you keep saying Dr Sears says it’s common.

    Back it up with evidence or its not worth considering.

  • Jon W

    No, I’ve been over this before. The mercury is thimerosal does not bioaccumulate. It’s ethylmercury and is excreted.

    And what is this toxic waste limit you keep referring to? Cite it.

    There’s more mercury in a tuna sandwich than a flu shot and it’s the methylmercury that can harm you.

  • Jon W

    Is this the study that was never published? Or the later study Verstraeten completed that showed no effect?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14595043

  • Jon W

    Not reading a book and then coming back to you. Cite the peer reviewed literature, not the for-profit book market.

  • Jon W

    ANd millions have not seen that. It’s a correlation. A correlation that was studied and found not to have any causal connection.

  • Jon W

    None of the links on that page are to studies.

  • ciaparker2

    The book The Age of Autism is 400 pages of minutely researched explanations of how damaging mercury has been in medications and vaccines for the past four hundred years. I cannot begin to do it justice here. The Peanut Allergy Epidemic, by Heather Fraser, is excellent in its explanation of how peanut allergies, and most other allergies, came into being (hint, vaccines and other injections, as of penicillin. Cottonseed allergies were a devastating allergy that took a huge toll on Americans in the ’30s and ’40s when it was routinely used to adjuvant penicillin and other injected drugs, but it disappeared as soon as they realized what they had done, and too it out. Peanut allergies are just the same. Completely unknown a hundred years ago, unmentioned even in books about allergies in the ’40s, and only appearing for the first time when peanut oil was used to adjuvant vaccines. Many countries continued to have no peanut allergies until they introduced the Hib vaccine, and wham! Peanut allergies immediately appeared. You PBS people should read the book and do a documentary on it. In the US, rates of peanut allergies tripled in just three years in the late ’80s and early ’90s. Vaccines were often adjuvanted with peanut oil from the mid-’60s on. Manufacturers didn’t have to list it on the packaging after 1973, it was included as part of a complete trade secreted formula which, since peanuts are generally regarded as safe, were permitted to be included. I hope interested readers will read these books, phama shills need not bother, as they have absolutely no motivation to do so.

  • Jon W

    “It won’t be long before it is universally admitted that vaccines cause this …”

    And if frogs had wings they wouldn’t slam there cans everytime they jump.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Fraser’s book starts with an inaccurate premise – that peanut oil was ever actually used as an adjuvant – and goes downhill from there. The only adjuvant ever approved for use in the U.S. was aluminum salts: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html.

    The claim that adjuvants do not need to be on the label is simply untrue. Here is the relevant section of the Code of Federal Regulations, the law on this: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=610&showFR=1&subpartNode=21%3A7.0.1.1.5.7

    The relevant part reads: “Sec. 610.61 Package label.
    The following items shall appear on the label affixed to each package containing a product:

    ….
    (o) The adjuvant, if present;”

    Note, also, “n) The inactive ingredients when a safety factor, or reference to an enclosed circular containing appropriate information;”

    In other words, this too is incorrect. This is just one example why Ms. Parker, in all her iterations, is not a reliable source of information. Nor is Ms. Fraser’s book, which is very inaccurate.

    The book Age of Autism is, again, problematic. It makes claims unsupported by science. For good reason, it did not gain much traction: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/11/15/blaming-failure-to-promote-anti-vaccine/

  • Jon W

    Who is they?

  • ciaparker2

    Except that many studes have established that rates of SIDS are very high in the three weeks following pertussis vaccination, much higher than before the vax or more than three weeks later.
    And vaccination puts the toxins in the blood , bypassing previous filtration by the liver and kidneys. Studies have shown how aluminum in IV feeding solutions for premature infants can cause kidney diseaseor kidney failure, and babies who get the aluminum-containing formulas have higher rates of cognitive disability as toddlers than those who got formula without aluminum. People who get aluminum-containg fluids for dialysis have high rates of dementia caused by it. I”ll look up the citation another time, but it’in Dr. Sears’ The Vaccine Book, again, for interested readers.
    Readers better go a lot further than this for information. If you just take professional posters’ word for vaccine safety, you may regret it for the rest of your life when vaccine damage happens to your family.

  • Jon W

    http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347

    8 examples. Scroll about halfway down and click on the table.

  • Jon W

    Who cares about IRB approval? Who cares about an independent panel to assess safety and ethics?

    Seems telling.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I’m sorry, since Dr. Humphries believes vitamin C can prevent or cure polio, I don’t count her as a good source. http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/suzanne-humphries-bad-advice-on-the-polio-vaccine/.

    Do you have credible evidence that pertussis became mild? Because according to this article: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=209448 up to 1943 pertussis was killing over 4000 people a year, most of them babies. That’s not mild. Vaccination against small pox was around since the start of the 19th century, so no wonder deaths dropped in the late 19th century. India had no polio cases for the last three years.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I note you post no studies showing that. As mentioned above, SIDS is inversely correlated with vaccines: less SIDS in vaccinated children. This goes against your evidence. Your theories may be interesting and imaginative, but they really are no substitute to evidence or to following what scientists know.

  • Jon W

    Admit they’re innocent? I’m reporting what Mitting ruled. I can also tell you what he didn’t rule on: Andrew Wakefield.

  • Jon W

    It’s immoral to keep spreading misinformation once the link has been disproven.

  • Jon W

    Recovered him? That’s a good one.

    Where’s the documentation of his protocol?

  • Jon W

    What article? Title, journal and year please. Or a link to the pubmed reference.

  • Jon W

    No, it lowers the burden of evidence for families to a mere correlation.

  • Jon W

    Brilliant argument, really just stellar.

  • Jon W

    Citation for the first autism cases coming from smallpox vaccine?

  • Jon W

    When the claims are worthless they tend to get denied.

  • Jon W

    Yup, I took a bath on that one. Serves as a lesson on using secondary literature instead of peer reviewed.

    However, it still does not bioaccumulate http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12480426 .

  • Dorit Reiss

    There is no evidence of that – the claim that there are high rates of mitochondrial disorder among children with autism. Here are studies finding no connection: http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2350-12-50.pdf

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21404085.

    Hannah’s parents believe it was the vaccines that triggered her mitochondrial disorder. The government conceded a table injury, encephalopathy, so causation was never proven. And no, she was not compensated for autism, as explained.

    Since there’s no clear connection between mitochondrial disorder and autism, and no clear connection between vaccines and autism, there is no basis for the screening you are suggesting – and vaccine preventable diseases can be very dangerous for children with mitochondrial disorder.

    There is no credible evidence that prior exposure to HPV makes the vaccines harmful.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I actually watched the interview. Gerberding admitted nothing of the source. A mitochondrial disorder is genetic. Vaccines cannot cause it. And vaccines do not cause MS. “multiple sclerosis is an autoimmune disease of the brain where the body reacts
    against the covering of nerves. Nerves are like wires covered by a thin layer of rubber. Instead of rubber, nerves in the body are covered by something called myelin, the principle component of which is myelin basic protein. People with multiple sclerosis often have worse symptoms during the winter. That’s because influenza infections occur most commonly during the winter and one of the
    proteins on influenza virus can mimic myelin basic protein. Some people with multiple sclerosis, when making an immune response against influenza virus, also inadvertently make an immune response to their own brain. The logical next question would be, can influenza vaccine do the same thing that natural
    influenza infection does? The influenza vaccine is similar to natural influenza virus in that both contain the protein that mimics myelin basic protein.
    But studies have clearly shown that although natural infection can cause a worsening of symptoms of multiple sclerosis, influenza vaccine (the shot) can’t.
    That’s because influenza vaccine virus doesn’t reproduce (it’s not live) and therefore doesn’t induce nearly the intensity of the immune response necessary to cause the body to react against itself. (Even the nasal spray influenza vaccine, which is live and can reproduce, doesn’t do so very well and, like the killed
    influenza vaccine, doesn’t cause the body to react against itself.)” http://www.chop.edu/system/galleries/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety-eng.pdf?utm_source=newseltter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=vecparentspackmay2013&utm_term=vaccine%2Bsafety%2Bpdf%2Beng P. 18

  • Dorit Reiss

    Fevers don’t cause autism. Autism is caused pre-natally. To remind you, the diagnosis was broadened dramatically in the 1990s, and awareness went up. That accounts, at least, for large parts of the increase. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-increase-in-autism-diagnoses-two-hypotheses/

  • Dorit Reiss

    This study looked at mouse liver cells in a petri dish in the lab. As evidence that Hepatitis B vaccines cause anything in humans, it’s pretty worthless (and mitochondrial disorders are prenatal). http://thepoxesblog.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/what-happens-in-mouse-liver-cancer-cells-in-a-petri-dish-in-a-lab-stays-in-mouse-liver-cancer-cells-in-a-petri-dish-in-a-lab/

  • Dorit Reiss

    See the studies above, showing no harm from the aluminum salts adjuvants in vaccines, and the link about aluminum.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Yes, natural exposure is very different. In natural exposure, you’re exposed to the virulent wild bacteria or virus and to all the risks of the disease. With a vaccine, you are exposed to either few antigens, or a dead virus, or a weakened one – much safer.

    The immune system does not go crazy when things are injected. To remind you, there are insects that sting, mosquitos, and so on. It’s true that we have other defenses besides what the vaccines target, but they are not fool proof: pathogens do get around them. That’s why you need vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system: they teach your body to recognize a specific invader before hand, without exposing you to the disease, so if you’re exposed to the disease your body can easily handle it.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Yes Cia,

    We have gone over this before.

    (1) Children with autism have been tested for their ability to metabolize and excrete mercury and it is exactly normal.

    The anti-vaccs response was death threats on the scientists that did this work.

    (2) There is no mercury excretion system for the hair. The levels of mercury in hair tell us zero about the child’s ability to excrete mercury. The anti-vaccs continue to be completely dishonest on this issue no matter how many times…over how many years….their errors are explained.

    That is the anti- vaccs in action: lie to parents and then use threats of violence on scientists, doctors, journalists, and their families to try and censor the facts. That is the side you choose to support.

    The postings here make reality very clear: one has to be both willfully stupid and
    morally bankrupt to believe the anti-vaccs.

    Thanks for making this so very clear.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    And there again Cia is the line between the two side.

    “Traditionally the Amish did not vaccinate”
    You feel free to just make things up as you go.

    In contrast, most people will read the referenceprovided by jon w.

    Well look at that, the Amish faith allows vaccination…and there are decades of data showing that they do vaccinate, just on average less often than other Americans….

    Another example of the anti-vaccs flat out dishonesty…but then that is practically redundant.

    W&N

  • Proponent

    Here is a link to Anne Dachel’s comments posted (via Disqus):

    http://disqus.com/annedachel/

    The same rhetoric.. the same inflammatory posts (unsubstantiated claims, anecdotal evidence.. et al).. copied and pasted.. time and time.. again.

    Pay attention to how she responds to any challenges or questions.

    Simply put and in short.. she doesn’t.

    Here’s an interesting article, though.. is it relevant? Is it relevant or germane to this discussion?

    In Anne Dachel’s online discussion/posting world it would be.. vaccines mentioned, so.. anything goes.. anything is apparently.. ‘relevant’.

    Princeton Students Get Smart on Vaccines

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-19/princeton-students-get-smart-on-vaccines.html

    And I quote;

    “But would the students take it? They have come of age at a time when it has become popular, among a subset of prosperous and educated Americans, to reject vaccination as unnecessary and even harmful. Despite a thorough debunking of claims that vaccines cause autism, bogus theories about the dangers of vaccines persist.

    The Princeton kids aren’t listening, apparently. Ninety-one percent of those for whom the vaccine was recommended — undergraduates, graduate students living in dorms, and students and staff with certain health conditions — showed up to receive the first of two doses.

    This turnout suggests that when young people can decide for themselves, they opt for vaccination. When parents are in charge, just 74 percent of U.S. teenagers get the ordinary meningitis vaccine. Only 54 percent of girls and 21 percent of boys receive even the first of three doses of the human papillomavirus vaccine, which prevents cancer of the cervix and perhaps the penis and the throat.”

  • ciaparker2

    Time had an article several years ago, in which they described him running over to Jenny and conversing normally with her. If you read her books, you will know that he couldn’t do this after regressing into autism post-vaccine, and was diagnosed with autism by the top experts at UCLA. OK, so now let’s hear about how all journalists at Time are well-known ignorant and malicious liars, hard to do since they protect and promote vaccines as much as they do. The dogs snarl, the caravan moves on.

  • ciaparker2

    You wish. http://www.adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/

    2007/06/no-evidence-of-any-link.html

    http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/

    hilarys-desk/yes-vaccines-can-cause-autism

    http://www.fourteenstudies.org/index.html

  • ciaparker2

    Some comments are so ridiculous that they’re just not worth my tiime.

  • ciaparker2

    Dorit,
    Hundreds of thousands of children were developing normally, walking, talking, socializing, when they got the MMR (or flu shot or whatever, but the MMR is a big one), and, within a short time, develop painful bowel disease, lose all their language and personality and retreat into the dark silence of autism. You say it’s always happened, it wasn’t the shot. Prove it. Any description of a child in Coriolanus, Émile, Dickens, Jane Austen who suddenly, mysteriously, tragically, loses his former ability to speak and interact with people? Got any Pubmed registered study explaining the mechanisms by which this condition fated by the genes is suddenly and has always been triggered by a fever, or, for some strange, meaningless reason, seems to often follow receipt of a vaccine? No connection, of course, God forbid we entertain any belief that might cut into pharma profits. I had to go talk to the school psychologist today about my daughter. She said she used to work with Autism Speaks, and said she recently heard them say that the rate of autism in the US is now one in 24. I knew that Dr. Wakefield said last spring that it was one in 25, but I hadn’t heard this new figure. Betcha the CDC is going to keep that under cover for the next ten years. So, as Dr. Kanner said, if it had existed before the 1930s, it does seem as though someone would have noticed it and said something about it, but it seemed strange to him that NO ONE EVER HAD! He described, for the first time, children who reversed pronouns (my daughter did that, reversing I and you), used echolalia, lined things up obsessively, could recite long passages from a prayer book verbatim but could not converse at all. Donald Triplett (was that his name?) recovered substantially, was employed, was a member of many service clubs, traveled the world, golfed. The only one of the Kanner Twelve who did, because Donald was the only one to have the mercury chelated out of his brain as a treatment for his juvenile arthritis. The gold salts used both relieved his arthritis and completely changed his condition for the better.
    Quit with the links to Pharma Shill Central. Are you actually attempting to say that there is no more autism than there ever was, it’s all just better diagnosis? Do you know that NO ONE BUT SHILLS says that anymore?

  • ciaparker2

    I’ll look later, there was one child in the Kanner Twelve who had developed autism after reacting to the smallpox vaccine, and I read descriptions in the book The Age of Autism of a couple much earlier who appeared to have developed autism after reacting to the smallpox vaccine.

  • ciaparker2

    You got it. AAP too.

  • ciaparker2

    You’re just mumbling lines from your Bible, the Merck Manual. Actually, people with MS have exacerbations in the summer: heat, fever, stress, and fatigue set off symptoms. We are permitted to take a tax deduction for the cost of air conditioning, it’s so crucial not to get hot. I actually like winter. The cold does not exacerbate my symptoms. But after talking to the school psychologist today about some problematic behavior of my daughter at school, I was shaky and wobbling on my feet. Fatigue and stress.

  • ciaparker2

    And another interesting thing is that, like autism, most allergies, and hayfever, there was no MS before vaccines. The first recorded case was in a Swiss nobleman two hundred years ago (after Jenner) who developed alarming symptoms while at a friend’s funeral, but after a few weeks, the symptoms remitted completely. Again, if it had existed before, something that can paralyze you for a few weeks, but then you completely recover, until the next episode, it would have been recorded. This was, after all, post-Enlightenment, when scientists were diligently examining and recording their careful observations of the world around them. MS and autism were never described before the Industrial Age and vaccines because they didn’t exist then.

  • ciaparker2

    But since vaccine do cause autism, I guess we must conclude that the most powerful industry in the world, Big Pharma, controls its minions through both carrots and sticks, and there are certainly many thousands who, from greed or fear, have been able to manipulate the discourse in many arenas up until recently.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    “We are so constituted that we can never receive other proteins into the blood than those that have been modified by digestive juices.”

    Remarkable Twyla that you will post nonsense like this which you have to know with absolute certianty is not true. Again you just don’t care about the truth.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Cia,

    How typical anti-vacc, ad hominem attack and dishonest.

    Here is Offit’s publication:
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/1/124.full.pdf+html?sid=c0a1dbab-5848-44dd-884a-e9efc6414fcb

    Here we are more than a decade later and is there a single anti-vacc that has been honest about this work? Didn’t think so….

    What is crazy are parents so pathetic they won’t read his words even to protect their own children…but then that is exactly who the anti-vaccs prey upon.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    “Uncoupling of ATP-mediated Calcium Signaling and Dysregulatred Interleukin-6 Secretion in Dendritic Cells by Nanomolar Thimerosal.”

    One more time Cia….this is a standard anti-vacc deception strategy—offering in vitro data as if it applied to our children.

    Just another example as to why the Courts have been so damming in their criticism of the anti-vaccs—often characterizing them as lying to get money….but then as you know the anti-vaccs response is to lie and claim these Court cases don’t exist.

    Just par for the anti-vaccs.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Except Cia the statistical data shows that vaccinated kids have a slightly lower risk of SIDS and there are no toxins in vaccines.

    The reason why you always refuse to check with qualified scientists—like statisticians or toxicologists—is that you know with 100% certainty that the anti-vaccs are a fraud, you just don’t care.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Gosh Cia,

    The Age of Autism and The Peanut Allergy Epidemic are just scams, void of an honest thought.

    “Vaccines were often adjuvanted with peanut oil from the mid-’60s on. Manufacturers didn’t have to list it on the packaging after 1973, it was included as part of a complete trade secreted formula which, since peanuts are generally regarded as safe, were permitted to be included.”

    I think that are scared because so many people know that you post under various handles—including CynthiaParker—and you fear someone pointing out:

    1. The law
    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=610.61

    This clearly states that all adjuvants must be disclosed in writing on the label

    2. That you know that Fraser is lying….you just don’t care about the facts even thought it is children’s health at stake.

    Thanks, you have been so very, very helpful.

    W&N

  • ciaparker2

    W & N,

    I don’t have time to scroll down looking for your comment about the books I recommended. I continue to HIGHLY recommend the books The Age of Autism and The Peanut Allergy Epidemic. You say they are scams. I hope anyone interested in the vaccine/autism/allergies question will at least get them from the library, or for a dollar plus postage on Amazon, get them through interlibrary loan if the library doesn’t have them. People outside the world of Big Pharma will be extremely impressed by both of them, their meticulous documentation of the horrifying facts. And then, on further reflection, they will see the meaning of your and your cohort attempting to slam and discredit them.

    On a slightly different note, I hope everyone who is an innocent observer, and not a you-know-what, will look at this article. They will be shocked by the tactics of the vaccine defenders to tear up and devour anyone upset about their child being destroyed by vaccines. Both the article and the comments are not to be missed:

    http://vactruth.com/2014/01/29/ truth-about-vaccine-pushers/? utm_source =The+Vaccine+Truth+Newsletter&utm_ campaign=81e457e9f7-01_30_2014_ pushers&utm_ medium=email&utm_term=0_ ce7860ee83-81e457e9f7-408303597

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Hey Cia,

    The exact words are still below.

    Cia asserted:

    “Vaccines were often adjuvanted with peanut oil from the mid-’60s on. Manufacturers didn’t have to list it on the packaging after 1973, it was included as part of a complete trade secreted formula which,
    since peanuts are generally regarded as safe, were permitted to be included.”

    The law says:

    “The following items shall appear on the label affixed to each package containing a product:

    (o) The adjuvant, if present;”

    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=610.61

    Look at that….The assertion that manufacturers don’t have to list the adjuvant is a lie.

    The assertion that our children received vaccines containing peanut oil is a lie.

    And as pointed out below, it is trivial to see that you knew the truth before you posted….just choose to knowingly post lies.

    Anyway…. The Age of Autism….The Peanut Allergy Epidemic….vactruth.com….just doesn’t matter….all it takes is a middle-school education and the integrity to fact-check to see they are just scams.

    Thanks again for your public service in demonstrating the truth about the anti-vaccs.

    W&N

  • CassandraofDelphi

    0.5 parts per billion (ppb) mercury kills neurons, 2 ppb is considered by the EPA as the safe limit for drinking water, 20 ppb is considered hazardous waste, the flu shot contains 50,000 ppb. So the blood levels of infants can reach hazardous waste level, hardly reassuring.

    “Administration of vaccines containing thiomersal does not seem to raise blood concentrations of mercury above safe values in infants. Ethylmercury seems to be eliminated from blood rapidly via the stools after parenteral administration of thiomersal in vaccines.” Does not SEEM to be? Really? Hazardous waste level is considered safe? The problem is that what SEEMS to be is not the reality. In reality, mercury leaves the blood but not the body. It enters the brain and is retained there for months, even years. For comparison, if you injected human beings with the same amount of lead compounds, you’d be sent to jail. There is something wrong when people don’t see how injecting mercury into humans is a problem.

    Mercury is not the only problem. Autism has certainly declined in Denmark as internal CDC emails have shown but was not reported in published papers. In the US the introduction of the flu shot for children and its heavy promotion to pregnant women may have offset the gains of removing it from other vaccines. Also, mercury is not the only problem. Parallel to the withdrawal of mercury, several aluminum containing vaccines were introduced.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    If you pay careful attention you will quickly figure out that autism did not decline in Denmark…just another anti-vacc fabrication.

    Also, since a number of countries completely removed all thimerosal from all vaccines years ago, we can say with certainty that it was in no way a problem.

    Finally you don’t understand the science. Scientists are careful with their language using words like “seems” since they couldn’t test every single kid on the planet.

    And EPA standards are incorrect to use for medical products. Different products,
    different exposures, different risks….fact is the thimerosal in vaccines is safe…all you have to do is check with qualified scientists… you know, the folks that know what the relevant standards are.

    W&N

  • ciaparker2

    WN, From the P.Allergy Epidemic, pp. 102-104: In 1964 New York Times trumpeted development of new vaccine adjuvant, Adjuvant 65-4, containing up to 65% peanut oil, also Arlacel A, aluminum stearate, and other ingredients. (“Peanut Oil Used in New Vaccine; product patented for Merck said to extend Immunity,” Business Financial Section, Sept. 19, 1964). In 1966 Merck used it in a flu vaccine. Adjuvants made with mycobacteria in mineral oil had been withdrawn as they caused so many allergies, abscesses, and granulomas. Medical journal articles published in the early 1970s praised the peanut oil adjuvants as producing very high antibody levels. (Smith, “Response to influenza vaccine in adjuvant 65-4,” J of Hygiene 74, no. 2 (April 1974):251-259. Hilleman, “Studies for safety of Adjuvant 65,” Ann Allergy 30 (1972); 477-80. There’s another one cited, but what’s the point?) Adjuvant 65 meant that less of the expensive antigen had to be used to generate a powerful immune response. They knew that mineral oil adjuvants potentiated autoimmune responses. (Want the citations?) But so could Adjuvant 65. Hilleman emphasized how important it

  • ciaparker2

    was to inject deep into the muscle, as injecting under the skin created a far greater risk of adverse effects. “Injection into the bloodstream would virtually guarantee allergic sensitization to peanut or any other extant vaccine proteins.” (102) In 1973, an article observed how peanut oil adjuvant in the flu vaccine created untoward hypersensitivity to the proteins in the vaccine. (Derek Hobson, “The potential role of immunological adjuvants in influenza vaccines,” Postgrad. Med. J 49, March 1973, 180-4. At this time peanut allergies started appearing for the first time in the U.S. By 1974, Adjuvant 65 was approved for use in the UK, but not in the US, possibly because the Arlacel in it appeared to cause tumors in mice. Hilleman helped develop several other patented formulations of the same basic adjuvant that would satisfy government requirements. (original Adjuvant 65 patent no. 3,149,036 was followed by similar adjuvants no. 1,983,228 and 4,069,313.) The only stand-alone adjuvant licensed in the US was aluminum salt. Vaccine formula

  • ciaparker2

    Vaccine formulae were approved and patented with peanut-oil adjuvants, but not with Adjuvant 65 as a stand-alone product. Doctors realized that adjuvants of all kinds caused allergies. Aluminum causes eosinophilia for one of many things. There’s a family here I read about last year who have four children, all with eosinophilia, meaning they are allergic to all foods, and live on a special formula powder mixed into a drink. Undoubtedly from a reaction to the aluminum in vaccines. (Many citations on aluminum causing allergies, one catches my eye: “Adjuvants: A balance between toxicity and adjuvanticity,” Vaccine 11, no 4, (1993) “Many doctors saw toxicty and allergenicity as inevitable and therefore acceptable compromises in vaccination goals.Ïn the late ’70s and ’80s, Adjuvant 65 was not used in the US, but it became a model for other adjuvants. Based on Hilleman’s precedent-setting peanut-oil adjuvant, one researcher published on a novel lipid emulsion adjuvant using peanut oil for use in humans. (Reynolds,”Adjuvant activity of a novel metabolizable lipid emulsion with inactivated viral vaccines,” Infection and Immunity 28, no. 3 (June 1980): 937-943. The use of peanut oil in vaccine adjuvant patents became common practice. ( Encyclopedia of Emulsion Technology: Applications, p. 191, and allison, “Immunologic adjuvants: General properties and side effects,” Molecular Immuniology 28, no 3 (March 1991): 279-84.CEO of BioVant Stephen Simes was quoted as saying

  • ciaparker2

    that the problem with most adjuvants was that they could cause allergies, but that BioVant products were not as potent, but they caused fewer allergies.(“BioSante: promises for bird-flu drug” Market Watch April 24, 2006.) After the mid-’70s, when, because of lawsuits, manufacturers stopped telling people what was in their patented formulas, it was hard to answer questions about the specific sensitizing or cross-sensitizing ingredients in children’s vaccines. Patents for many vaccines included peanut oil as a possible ingredient, but a patent doesn’t mean that it was produced. Was there a homologous sensitizing protein such as castor bean oil, soybean lecithin, or even chitin in the rubber stopper of the bottle that were cross-reacting to peanut when the food was consumed?
    Peanut allergy first emerged after Romansky’s peanut oil in penicillin in the 1940s followed by PAM, penicillin in peanut oil in aluminum monostearate from the 1950s to the 1980s. A huge increase in peanut allergies appeared around 1990 in small children in the US, UK, and Canada. Because the Hib vaccine was introduced in all of them at that time, and was peculiarly antigenic both because of the peanut oil used in it and because of the homology of peanut and haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib meningitis). (see p. 122 in Fraser for explanation) Hospital admissions for food anaphylaxis in small children exploded in all First World countries that introduced HIb vaccine then. In the US it was 467 per 100,000 in 1992 to 671 in 1994, to 876 per 100,000 in 1995. In three years the numbers had nearly doubled. In 1991, 90% of food allergy fatalities were from peanuts, an allergy that had not existed anywhere before the use of peanut oil in penicillin in the 1940s.
    In Israel, in 2006, 0.17

  • ciaparker2

    In Israel, in 2006, 0.17% of children reacted to peanuts. UK children had ten times more peanut allergy, 1.85%. However, sesame allergy is the equivalent of peanut allergy there. (Aaronov, “Natural history of food allergy in infants and children in Israel,” Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol 101, no 6 (Dec 2998): 637-40.) I have read elsewhere that Israel doesn’t produce vaccines adjuvanted with peanut oil, but rather uses sesame oil, so the small number of peanut sensitive children there must have gotten vaccines produced outside Israel.
    I highly recommend this book. Also interesting is the account of the dates peanut allergy first appeared in many countries: from zero to quite a few as soon as they introduced the HIb vaccine.

  • ciaparker2

    Please see what I wrote below. I’m sure you’ll say everything I say is a scam until you’re in your grave, but obviously most people would not say so. THE adjuvant. Meaning aluminum salt as a stand-alone product. Doesn’t cover peanut oil used as one of several ingredients in a patented formula. Again, see below.

  • ciaparker2

    I just wrote a lot about peanut oil in vaccines, but it has been taken down. OK. Fraser’s book p. 101. New York Times trumpets new adjuvant by Merck, 65-4, up to 65% peanut oil. Used in flu vaccines from 1964. Licensed in UK in 1974, never in US because Arlacel in it caused tumors in rats. Considered better than the previous mineral oil adjuvants, caused stronger immune reponse with less disease antigen used. Hilleman had triumphed with this unique formula, which he realized however might cause as many allergies as all other adjuvants did. He helped develop other vaccine formulas based on 65-4, but that could be licensed here. J.A. Reynolds was one of many researchers to develop peanut oil adjuvants, but his, patented in 1980, was novel in its emulsification process. While stand-alone adjuvants like aluminum salt must be on the label, peanut oil, when used as one of many ingredients, is considered a well-known “safe” product and need not be declared when used in a patented formula. I had many citations to scienitific articles, but they have been taken down. Peanut allergies appeared for the first time in the ’40s, when peanut oil was first used in Romanski’s formula to adjuvant penicillin. The Hib vaccine has caused a skyrocketing increase in peanut allergies not only because of the peanut oil, but because the pathogen’s structure is homologous to peanut protein. Read the book, Heather Fraser’s The Peanut Allergy Epidemic, since I’m censored here. Not addressing you, Nerd, only people more concerned about our children’s health than pharma profits and largesse. .

  • ciaparker2

    How strange! Disqus Digests has sent me the first few lines of all of the comments I posted last night summarizing the facts presented in Fraser’s book The Peanut Allergy Epidemic showing that peanut oil, used to adjuvant penicillin from the 1940s on for several decades, thus creatig the first peanut allergies, and from the mid-’60s used to adjuvant vaccines, as they seemed to be safer than mineral oil emulsions and were definitely more effective at forcing the creation of a high level of antibodies (lots of patent numbers for peanut oil adjuvants given, and articles in scientifc journals about them), how creative of allergies all vaccine adjuvants have ALWAYS been known by scientists and doctors to be, but were considered an unavoidable and acceptable side effect, how particularly dangerous the HIb vaccine was and is, and how the introduction of HIb in many countries was immediately followed either by the appearance of peanut allergies for the first time, or their astronomical increase (rates increasing by a factor of three in the US in just three short years twenty years ago, after the introduction of HIb). I would have thought PBS would have recognized how important it is that families be aware of this information, and have left my comments up. Disqus Digests still has them, but they were taken down from here.

  • sabelmouse

    it is not contrary to her assertions. it’s cautionary while admitting some benefits.

  • sabelmouse

    thank you for that link. i agree with your assessment and the article’s.

  • sabelmouse

    thanks for the link.

  • sabelmouse

    flu shots contain thimerosal.

  • sabelmouse

    started what all? you think people had no issues with vaccination before that?
    german doctors had been discussing this long before that’s for sure. and when my first child was born in 90 our vaccination schedule was so much thinner than that of the usa or even other european countries. sadly it has been added to a lot though STICKO does admit that it recommends chickenpox vaccinations for economic reasons. at least we still know that varicella isn’t deadly.

  • sabelmouse

    lol! you mean that’s when you noticed things?! i myself have been reading criticism of vaccination since 1990 and often in books written long before that.

  • sabelmouse

    methinks you are projecting.

  • sabelmouse

    and fewer still in germany which had a much thinner schedule even in the 90s.

  • sabelmouse

    why are you calling anti semitism?

  • sabelmouse

    ”Remember that an adverse reaction is anything bad that occurs after the vaccine was given….”

    and never, ever, ever has anything to do with the vaccine, never!

  • sabelmouse

    wow! a whole decade!

  • White_and_Nerdy

    All you are doing Cia is demonstrating the clear difference between ethical parents acting in their children’s best interest and the anti-vaccs.

    All you offer is anti-vacc argument by assertion.

    Ethical parents read the law—which clearly states that the adjuvant must be listed.

    Ethical parents read the GRAS list—look at that, neither peanuts nor peanut oil is listed as GRAS
    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=582

    Ethical parents notice that you didn’t provide a reference to the change in law post-1973 that allowed manufacturers to hide “secret formulas”….because it doesn’t exist.

    http://www.usa.gov/Topics/Reference-Shelf/Laws.shtml

    The entire assertion that vaccines contain peanut oil adjuvant is a lie predicated on parents being to pathetic to read a link…even to protect their children’s health.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Just for completion Cia,

    Anyone that bothers to fact-check will see that Israel uses the same SKB Hib vaccine as other Western nations.

    http://www.old.health.gov.il/units/pharmacy/trufot/alonim/Infanrix_IPV_Hib_DR_1356412969608.pdf

    There is lots of data showing that vaccines don’t cause allergies and that in fact the rates are the same between vaccinated and 100% unvaccinated kids:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=germany+unvaccinated+atopy

    Naturally the only anti-vacc response is to claim there are no studies looking at 100% unvaccinated kids…see below for examples.

    Finally, anyone that looks at pubmed will find there is a huge amount of data on consumption of peanuts and its effect on peanut allergies.

    Which explains studies like this:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3563019/

    Where we see that it doesn’t matter what the vaccine schedule is, or it contains Hib or not….there is not effect on the rate of peanut allergies because vaccination has nothing to do with peanut allergies.

    Good news: almost no one can finish middle-school and honestly believe the BS that
    the anti-vaccs are selling.

    Key words: honestly and selling.

    Thanks again,

    W&N

  • ciaparker2

    Did you not notice my patent numbers for adjuvants containing peanut oil from the ’80s? Stand-alone adjuvants like aluminum must be on the package label, but when the ingredients are “known-safe” ingredients like peanuts or peanut oil, when they are used as components of multi-ingredient trade-secret formulations, they do not have to be listed on the package. You evidently did not read the information I gave, on Hilleman’s triumph in producing adjuvant 65-4 for Merck in 1964, up to 65% peanut oil. It was not ultimately licensed in the US because of the toxic effects of the Aracel in it, but Hilleman worked on developing other adjuvants with peanut oil that could be licensed in the U.S. They were considered superior to the older mineral oil emulsions, less allergenic, and capable of producing a very high antibody response, and Hilleman knew that it might work out to be as dangerous as all adjuvants are, producing many severe reactions (serum sickness) and allergies, but he did not at the time realize how dangerous it would be.
    Thank you, PBS people!

  • ciaparker2

    There were no peanut allergies anywhere in the world before peanut oil was used to adjuvant penicillin and other drugs. In 1941, allergist Warren Vaughan determined not to use peanuts on his list of possible food allergens in his book Strange Malady, because peanuts had not yet caused any allergies. Even though millions of people in China, India, and other eastern countries had always consumed a lot of peanuts, there were NO peanut allergies there until recently. “Starting in 2005, …reports of peanut allergy in unexpected prevalence emerged from Hong Kond, Ghana, and Singapore. When word of these new outbreaks reacher the medical community, the response was utter silence. No one could explain it.” (Fraser 26) In sub-Saharan Africa and India there continues to be almost zero peanut allergies (because not many get the Hib vaccine). They tried for a while to say that since the Chinese and Indians boiled rather than roasted their peanuts, that that prevented peanut protein sensitization, but now the allergy is common in China (since they started using the Hib vaccine). In Sweden, consumption of peanuts has always been low, but they have about the same rate of peanut allergy as in the US. In Israel, peanut consumption was high, but rates of peanut allergy very low. They have a lot of sesame allergies, since their vaccines are adjuvanted with sesame, not peanut, oil.

  • ciaparker2

    In Tasmania, in 1998, only 21% of children were vaxed in their first year. The rate of peanut allergy was basically nonexistent. Then the Australian government implemented campaigns to vax them all, (Fraser 126) By 2001, 94% of Tasmanian children were vaxed, and by 2009, 1.11% of them were allergic to peanuts. The same has happened in every country in the world which has introduced the vaccine for Hib meningitis: as soon as it’s introduced, skyrocketing numbers of children immediately become allergic to peanuts, and some die from them.
    I can’t post much here, but let’s talk about asthma. The Manitoba study (1998) found that starting the pertussis series (DPT or DTaP) at 2 months more than doubled the children’s risk of asthma at seven as opposed to starting it several months later.
    Epidemioloy 1997; 8(6):678-680, “Is infant immunization a risk factor for childhood asthma or allergy?” Some children received tetanus-containing vaccine like DPT and some didn’t. None of the unvaxed had any asthma episodes or doctor’s visits for asthma by ten years old, among the vaxed 23% got asthma, 30% got other allergies. Same still true at 16 years old.
    Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics 2000;23:1-10, Hurwitz, “Effects of DTP… on allergies etc,”14,000 kids in study, those who got pertussis or tetanus-contaiing vaccines 50% more likely to have allergies, twice as likely to have asthma, as the unvaxed. The authors concluded that half the asthma (4.94 million) in the US would have been prevented if the kids had not gotten DPT. 45% of sinusitis cases (4,94 million) and 54% of nose and eye symptom allergies (10.54 million) would be prevented in one year if the vaccine were discontinued. From Neil Miller Vaccine Safety Manual p. 103. I’ve run out of room, but still have six thousand more citations of scientific studies establishing the severe damage often caused by vaccines.

  • ciaparker2

    Reuben,
    Before I forget, the ridiculous KIGGS study you cited as showing that vaxed and unvaxed kids had allergies at the same rate only included 97 unvaxed children, 0.7% of the total, not enough to be significant. And, of course, no mention of autism. Another reason to push for a large vax/unvax study to be done, Congress has twice mandated that one be done, yet the medical cartel just drags its feet and says it couldn’t do it, absolutely unethical to make use of the tens of thousands of completely unvaxed kids in the US by their discerning parents’ choice as part of this study. Goodness, just imagine the fallout when it confirmed what the study I cited an hour ago concluded, that vaccines double the risk of asthma and almost double the risk of other allergies, compared to the unvaccinated. Just imagine if we started to take into account the number of deaths from asthma and other allergies (peanut, anyone?) and balanced them against the small number who, in an unvaccinated society, might die from pertussis, Hib meningitis, or measles. Guess who would be the big losers? Congressman Posey tried to get a retrospective vax/unvax study going, but the pharma cartel is just so reluctant for people to learn to truth about vaccines, that it just blocks it and blocks it. Dorit, care to put up your usual list of ridiculous studies that you try to claim shows that the study has already been done?

  • White_and_Nerdy

    1. Ruben—Huh?

    2. Noted that you don’t care that the anti-vaccs lie about there not being any studies looking at 100% unvaccinated kids.

    3. “Significance” is a statistical concept and the exact point is that data set was large enough to determine that 100% unvaccinated kids have the same rate of allergies as vaccinated kids.

    3a. you literally have zero understanding of the data.

    3b. how sad that our children’s health isn’t important enough for you to ask an actual statistician about the KIGGS study….but then truth and your POV aren’t compatible so you discard the truth.

    4. The Manitoba study does NOT show that vaccination increases the risk of allergies…sadly not matter how many times your falsehoods are pointed out you just keep right on posting the same nonsense over and over…

    5. Your topic was allergies, so complaining that data on autism was not provided was completely disingenuous.

    6. Data on autism risk in 100% unvaccinated kids vs. vaccinated has been around for more than a decade

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/2887572/Simpsonwood-Transcript20Searchable

    And just like every single other time, the autism risk in vaccinated kids is the same as 100% unvaccinated kids.

    Guess what?
    Anti-vaccs know they can’t deceive scientists so they are left trying to run their scam on folks like politicians.

    But at some point the politicians sit down with actual scientists and they go line by line through the anti-vacc fraud….which you have so clearly demonstrated.
    Thanks again,

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Cia,

    Again all you offer is anti-vacc assertions with zero effort at fact-checking.

    “Stand-alone adjuvants like aluminum must be on the package label, but when the ingredients are “known-safe” ingredients like peanuts or peanut oil, when they are used as components of multi-ingredient trade-secret formulations, they do not have to be listed on the package.”

    I have provided the law which is very clear—all adjuvants have to be listed, no exceptions.

    I have provided the GRAS list and neither peanuts nor peanut oil are listed as generally recognized as safe.

    I have provided the law database, there is no law allowing non-disclosure of “trade-secret” formulations.

    Everyone here knows that your anti-vacc assertions are flat-out lies. The
    difference is most parents care about their kid’s health and want the truth.

    I did check your references. Peanut oil was evaluated as a component in
    experimental adjuvants. They failed and peanut oil was never used in any licensed vaccine.

    A good reminder of the abject lunacy of the anti-vaccs.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    You know the drill Cia,

    “In Israel, peanut consumption was high, but rates of peanut allergy very low. They have a lot of sesame allergies, since their vaccines are adjuvanted with sesame, not peanut, oil.

    I have already provided you with the facts:

    http://www.old.health.gov.il/units/pharmacy/trufot/alonim/Infanrix_IPV_Hib_DR_1356412969608.pdf

    The Israelis use the same vaccines that other Western nations do….once again you are caught just making things up.

    “…but now the allergy is common in China (since they started using the Hib vaccine).”

    The Chinese don’t use the Hib vaccine….once again you are caught just making things up.

    http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/globalsummary/countries?countrycriteria%5Bcountry%5D%5B%5D=CHN

    Good news: no one that has made it through middle school could be fooled by the
    nonsense you keep posting.

    Thanks again for your on-going public service in exposing the anti-vacc fraud.

    W&N

  • White_and_Nerdy

    “I’ve run out of room, but still have six thousand more citations of scientific studies establishing the severe damage often caused by vaccines.”

    Zero of which you have understood….doubt you have even bothered to try and read many of them.

    The reason why you absolutely refuse to ever, ever get help from a qualified scientist is you know they would go through your references and show how the anti-vaccs deceive parents.

    E.g. your Manitoba study….
    J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2008 Mar;121(3):626-31. doi:10.1016/j.jaci.2007.11.034. Epub 2008 Jan 18.

    “The Manitoba study (1998) found that starting the pertussis series (DPT or DTaP) at 2 months more than doubled the children’s risk of asthma at seven as opposed to starting it several months later.”

    An actually scientist would point out that this is abject BS, completely contrary to the experimental design, the data, and its interpretation.

    Of course all a parent has to do is to read the study to see the data (if you believe it is real) showed that vaccination reduced the risk of asthma.

    Just typical anti-vacc fraud: take data showing a reduction in risk from vaccination
    and claim that it showed an increase in risk.

    Sadly there are some kids so unfortunate as to have anti-vaccs as parents….parents that won’t read the words on page even to protect their children’s health….hard to believe but there you go.

    W&N

  • notation

    Kinda like your assertion that “measles doesn’t kill anyone, it’s the complications that do”? Somehow or other you don’t seem to grasp that you’re trying to make the argument both ways.

  • notation

    Excellent post–outstanding. These anti-vax nuts won’t believe a word of it, unfortunately. They’re ignorant of science and proud of it.

  • ciaparker2

    BUT Judge Mitting found that the GMC, which had revoked his license as per instructions from BP, had used shallow reasoning to reach FALSE conclusions, and ordered that a legal board be included in future proceedings to prevent the abuses of that one.

  • ciaparker2

    Simpsonwood was convened in 2000 to confer on how to water down the disturbing results of Verstraeten’s study, which showed unequivocally that mercury in vaccines caused autism. And, as always, when you have a bunch of rich powerful industry men and medicrats put their heads together on how to play unwanted truths, they figured out a way to do so. And so we have a later study that showed no effect. Very conviincing. Very reassuring.

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Hey Cia,

    Once again you are being so very, very helpful.

    Below you posted:
    “Simpsonwood was convened in 2000 to confer on how to water down the disturbing results of Verstraeten’s study, which showed unequivocally that mercury in vaccines caused autism.”

    Funny, I just referred to the actual document. Here it is one more time:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/2887572/Simpsonwood-Transcript20Searchable

    And on page 44 we find the data on autism:

    “This is the result for autism, where we don’t see much a trend except for a slight, but not significant, increase for the highest exposure. The overall test for trend is statistically not significant.”

    1. The data has always shown that 100% unvaccinated kids had the same risk for autism as vaccinated kids.

    2. The anti-vaccs are obviously lying when they claim this was an attempt to water down Verstraeten’s study—the study wasn’t even done yet! The point of the conference was to discuss how to do the study correctly.

    3. The anti-vaccs have been systematically dishonest about the study, the methods, the data, and the conclusions. Anyone with an honest interest in the study would check with statisticians….naturally the anti-vaccs never, ever do so….

    Good news Cynthia. You don’t need to be a scientist. You don’t need to check with Scientists. All you need is the integrity to read the words.

    W&N

  • bpatient

    Flu shots are available without thimerosal. By law in California young children and pregnant women cannot receive the thimerosal-containing version of the influenza vaccine.

    As Blaxill noted, the prevalence of ASD in California has continued to climb following dramatic reduction in exposure to thimerosal, just as the prevalence of ASD continued to climb following reduced exposure to thimersoal in Quebec, Denmark, and Sweden. That’s why Blaxill knows that his hypothesis has passed its sell-by date. Nobody believes it except for the sort of people who “educate themselves” on the internet.

  • bpatient

    Are you unwilling or just unable to understand?

  • ciaparker2

    Great article on mito disorder and autism: one study with only two out of 25 children with a mito disorder gene, rest had it anyway without the gene, and another that found that 25% of mito disorder is environmentally triggered, not genetic. Further, that vaccines may play an important role in causing mito disorder and autism in many.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ david-kirby/new-study—
    mitochondrial_b_ 147030.html

  • Dorit Reiss

    Here is the link to the actual study, rather than Kirby’s article on it: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0003815. If you look, you’ll see the authors chose children who had both ASD and a mitochondrial disorder. It doesn’t actually look at how common such disorders are among children with autism.

  • sabelmouse

    and are people aware of that? is it being enforced. not just by doctors but people in malls and supermarkets ectr.

  • Twylaa

    The latest CDC stats are for babies born in 2000, when there was still a lot of thimerosal. On what basis do you say that ASD prevalence has continued to climb?

    http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html

    Oddly, the CDC has not released comparable stats for 8-year-olds born in 2010 or 2012, although they did release results of a phone survey showing high rates.

  • notation

    Utter bullshit. Prove that there were no peanut allergies before vaccines, you ninny.

  • notation

    What a stupid post.

    When are you going to prove that vaccines are “dangerous”? You’ve yet to post anything remotely resembling fact anywhere that proves it.

  • notation

    Of course you do. You’re a moron.

  • notation

    My word, you’re an ignoramus.

  • sabelmouse

    are you stalking me?

  • notation

    “It is the truth that best protects children.”

    When are you going to start posting some?

    By the way, you said that latex paint was being discontinued. You are an idiot.

  • notation

    Hardly. Just laughing at the silliness you post. The one about humility was particularly hilarious.

  • notation

    Citing smartvax is telling. If you can’t cite the actual studies, then don’t bother posting crap from a site that’s laughable in its bias.

  • notation

    cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal_timeline.html

  • ciaparker2

    When all the peers have vested interests in the pharma industry, I submit that their review is worthless.

  • ciaparker2

    If you read Our Daily Meds you will learn of the considerable pecuniary gain that nearly ALL doctors glean from the drug (including vaccine) industry. Being a pharma drone doctor/researcher is also a for-profit enterprise. Those who don’t read books are sort of locked out of an understanding of this issue.

  • courageandhope

    It is important to realize, I think, “notation,” that truth has two sides, and in a free society, we make room for the voice of dissent.

    What I said was that the Home Depot clerk told me Home Depot no longer sells “latex paint” due to the many who are allergic to latex. (1-6% of the population have latex allergies according to: http://www.paint.org/find-your-issue/latex-paint.html which gives a CDC reference ). I assumed she meant they had taken the latex out of the paint, but apparently “latex” was always only a “decorative term.” They are calling it “acrylic paint” now that there are so many with latex allergies. Allergies can be life-threatening.. http://www.livestrong.com/article/521245-allergy-to-paint/

    The point is, latex allergy is common: 1-6% have it, Latex occurs in the rubber tips to many vaccine vials, and they do not test babies for latex allergy before injecting them. Allergy can also be induced by repeated exposure to a substance.http://www.drugs.com/health-guide/latex-allergy.html If a baby or child is KNOWN to have latex allergy, then they would not, I assume, give the vaccine from a rubber-tipped vial.

  • courageandhope

    Ethics includes fair and balanced communication, without bias. In a free
    society, tolerance of different beliefs should be welcome. Not
    everyone believes the basic tenets of the “vaccine gospel.” without
    reservation. What may have seemed good or right in the past may need
    re-evaluation in light of changing circumstances (our increasingly toxic world, the
    unexplained decline in children’s health overall, evolving scientific
    knowledge, e.g.). But some feel it is important to exclude all dissent.

    Even today, too little is known about how our natural
    immune system works, since the focus of immunology has been on
    vaccination, according to immunologist Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych, author of the e-book
    “Vaccine Illusion” whose talk on immunity last March at
    Aligned Chiropractic in Kelowna, B.C. can be seen on youtube.

    Dr.Maurice Hilleman, inventor of the MMR vaccine, said in a video he
    thought vaccines were the “bargain basement of health care.” But they
    are now lucrative, due to expansion of markets, partly because manufacturers have practically no liability under the US’s no-fault National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

    Protecting the safety of all children, including that small subset of
    children most at risk from vaccine damage, must be a priority. But the
    CDC priority is ease of administration of the vaccine program, which
    leads them to encourage the giving of multiple vaccines at once, even
    though there are frequently inadequate safety studies on this practice.

    No one can guarantee your child’s unique reaction to a vaccine will not harm him
    or her. It is important to realize the CDC and FDA do not prioritize the protection of YOUR
    child over ease of administration of vaccination programs. That is called utilitarian ethics. When they weigh overall risks and benefits, they consider it acceptable that some individuals will be harmed to bring about the “greater good” of society. If they are going to do that, the least they can do is compensate those children who are vaccine injured, instead of denying their injuries.

    People need to realize they can say no. They can insist on their human and parental rights to consent or refuse vaccines, after being informed of all risks and benefits. The National Vaccine Information Center has information on state by state vaccine exemptions, for a start.

  • courageandhope

    Latex allergy is common (so common that latex paint, which never contained latex, is no longer called latex paint; see my comment just posted here). Latex is in the rubber tips of many vaccine vials. Between 1-6% of the population have latex allergy, but babies are not tested for it before vaccination. Here is a study posing whether latex allergy could lead to autism. Shen C. et al, “A
    proteomic investigation of B lymphocytes in an autistic family: a pilot
    study of exposure to natural rubber latex (NRL) may lead to autism.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20957522
    J Mol Neurosci. 2011 Mar;43(3):443-52. doi: 10.1007/s12031-010-9463-5. Epub 2010 Oct 19.

  • courageandhope

    Ethics includes fair and balanced communication, without bias. In a free
    society, tolerance of different beliefs should be welcome. Not
    everyone believes the basic tenets of the “vaccine gospel.” without
    reservation. What may have seemed good or right in the past may need
    re-evaluation in light of changing circumstances (our increasingly toxic world, the
    unexplained decline in children’s health overall, evolving scientific
    knowledge, e.g.). But some feel it is important to exclude all dissent.

    Even today, too little is known about how our natural
    immune system works, since the focus of immunology has been on
    vaccination, according to immunologist Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych, author of the e-book
    “Vaccine Illusion” whose talk on immunity last March at
    Aligned Chiropractic in Kelowna, B.C. can be seen on youtube.

    Dr.Maurice Hilleman, inventor of the MMR vaccine, said in a video he
    thought vaccines were the “bargain basement of health care.” But they
    are
    now lucrative, due to expansion of markets, partly because
    manufacturers have practically no liability under the US’s no-fault
    National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

    Protecting the safety of all children, including that small subset of
    children most at risk from vaccine damage, must be a priority. But the
    CDC priority is ease of administration of the vaccine program, which
    leads them to encourage the giving of multiple vaccines at once, even
    though there are frequently inadequate safety studies on this practice.

    No one can guarantee your child’s unique reaction to a vaccine will not harm him
    or her. It is important to realize the CDC and FDA do not prioritize the protection of YOUR
    child
    over ease of administration of vaccination programs. That is called
    utilitarian ethics. When they weigh overall risks and benefits, they
    consider it acceptable that some individuals will be harmed to bring
    about the “greater good” of society. If they are going to do that, the
    least they can do is compensate those children who are vaccine injured,
    instead of denying their injuries.

    People need to realize they can say no. They can insist on their
    human and parental rights to consent or refuse vaccines, after being
    informed of all risks and benefits. The National Vaccine Information
    Center has information on state by state vaccine exemptions, for a
    start.

  • notation

    Latex paint is not going to cease being produced. That’s what you claimed, you lying little shit.

  • notation

    there aren’t two EQUALLY VALID sides here. That’s what you nuts don’t get. You don’t have a case. You’re crazy and you can’t even back up the claims you make with any solid science. The only crap you quote is sites that do not constitute valid studies.

    Knock it off, lady. You’re nothing but a kook.

  • notation

    When are you going to live up to your ideals, dingus? You don’t look at any side but the one you’re on.

  • courageandhope

    Is there any decent moderation on this site? Why are the offensive comments of “notation” directed at me highlighted as “Most Discussed” instead of removed as inappropriate? Ad hominem attacks and name-calling ought not be allowed. PBS hosts a public forum with public money; at least treat your guests right. It is as if you condone the offensive name-calling of “notation.” And, PBS, why does my polite comment made today, several times, keep disappearing from this page?

  • notation

    What’s the matter, dear? You can’t figure out why your comments disappear? Maybe it’s because they’re nothing short of lies.

  • notation

    Wakefield is a QUACK. He’s been utterly disgraced and his research is not worth the paper it was printed on.

  • notation

    The word it “jibe,” sweetie. Not “jive.”

    The Gates foundation isn’t “pro-vax.” It’s just more concerned with whether people are protected against the diseases any sensible person knows are prevented best by vaccination.

    The Gates’ are apparently more interested in the health of people than you are.

  • notation

    Why do YOU continue to do it, then?

  • notation

    You made a claim that latex paint was no longer going to be manufactured. You can’t even tell the truth about what you wrote. And someone who makes claims on a forum based on what she heard from someone at Home Depot is hardly worthy of any respect.

  • sabelmouse

    notation has been stalking me over various sites , always with nothing much more than blatant and obvious insults. it sure is strange.

  • notation

    Poor baby.

    I’ve posted numerous links to studies that show your claims of vaccine “dangers” are nothing but bogus. You just don’t like it that you are unable to show proof that vaccines are “full of poisons” and “deadly.” That is because they aren’t.

  • notation

    “which leads them to encourage the giving of multiple vaccines at once, even
    though there are frequently inadequate safety studies on this practice.”

    Nonsense. There have been many studies and not one shows that it is dangerous to give multiple vaccines at once.

    Surely you know that nothing is 100% safe and effective; nobody with sense has ever said that vaccines are any different. The benefits far outweigh the risks and millions of lives are saved through vaccination.

    Anyone who cites Wakefield as a valid source deserves to be dismissed.

  • courageandhope

    Despite 5 years of investigation, the GMC never alleged fraud against Dr. Wakefield in its hearing, and made no findings of fraud.. The GMC hearing was not about fraud, but ethics, and it was a show trial. Brian Deer’s Jan. 6, 2011 allegations that Dr. Wakefield et al’s work in the Lancet 1998 paper was fraudulent has been the subject of Dr. Wakefield’s slander and defamation against Deer, the BMJ, and its editor Dr. Fiona Godlee. The case is awaiting decision on the jurisdictional question in the Texas Third Court of Appeals. All the spreading of the defamation will just make things worse for the defendants in the long run, should the court rule in Dr. Wakefield’s favor.

  • courageandhope

    Twyla, Dr. Wakefield certainly discussed Urabe mumps scandal in his book, “Callous Disregard, Autism and Vaccines – the Truth Behind a Tragedy” (Skyhorse Publishing: NY 2010), ch. 4, 65-75, p. 75, “The Whistleblower.” “Two of the UK’s three licensed brands, introduced in 1988 and withdrawn for safety reasons in 1992 – exemplary?” (in response to Dr. Sailsbury’s claim that the MMR had an exemplary safety record.)

  • Dorit Reiss

    There are two parts to this. The first is what are the facts of vaccination. Contrary to this post, the facts are very clear – there is a scientific and medical consensus that all the vaccines on the childhood’s schedule are very, very safe, and that their rare risks are far outweighed by their benefits. Nothing is 100% safe, and no one can guarantee a specific child will not have a vaccine reaction – just as no one can guarantee a specific child won’t suffer a complication of a disease. All scientists can say is that the risks of not vaccinating are much higher than those of vaccinating: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/D35CD18A3985212ECA2574E2000F9A4F/$File/quick_sideeffects.pdf.

    Most people intuitively understand that, which is why over 90% of the population vaccinates.

    The second question is what are the ethics of treating the minority that chooses not to vaccinate. That’s a complicated question of public policy, because it involves both the freedom of parents and the rights of children to health: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/D35CD18A3985212ECA2574E2000F9A4F/$File/quick_sideeffects.pdf.

    There are several options.

    A. Require that people vaccinate their child – that would protect the largest amounts of children, but impose serious limitations on freedoms.

    B. Not require vaccination generally, but require that if your child is put in a situation where she may expose others – like the close public school setting – she be vaccinated. That’s where the U.S. is – with exemptions that vary according to how much is each state willing to give up protection against diseases for respecting certain parental freedoms (it’s more complex than that, but that’s the short version).

    C. Not require vaccination, but impose costs on non-vaccinating parents if harm happens – for example:

    Tort liability if they harm others – http://shotofprevention.com/2013/09/12/legal-responsibilities-in-choosing-not-to-vaccinate/

    Tort liability if they harm their child – http://shotofprevention.com/2014/02/18/the-rights-of-the-unvaccinated-child-tort-liability/

    Criminal sanctions if they harm their child – http://shotofprevention.com/2014/02/25/rights-of-the-unvaccinated-child-criminal-law/#comment-47166.

    D. Not require vaccination, not impose consequences, and suffer the cost in outbreaks – like Europe did in recent years, with a large measles outbreak.

    Which we choose is a question of values and also a political question.

  • Dorit Reiss

    That’s partly accurate. The GMC did not allege that Andrew Wakefield faked the results of the research. That came out later. It did, however, allege that he proceeded in his research without ethics approval. That he hid conflicts of interests from co-authors and editors (and the public, but that was not the focus). That he performed unjustified treatments on children. The allegations were mostly not contested or supported by substantial evidence: http://www.gmc-uk.org/Wakefield_SPM_and_SANCTION.pdf_32595267.pdf.

    In the Autism Omnibus Proceeding, one of his research assistants testified that Andrew Wakefield new the samples of the children were negative for measles virus. The paper reported them as positive. See: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/06/27/andrew-wakefield-and-the-death-of-the-mmr-debacle/; http://briandeer.com/wakefield/nick-chadwick.htm.

    Reporting as positive samples that came out negative is, well, fraud. There’s not a lot of ways around that.

    Anyone can sue for anything in the U.S.. Wakefield’s chance for winning on the merits under U.S. defamation law – even if he win his jurisdictional dispute – are very slim. He withdrew his U.K. defamation suit.

  • courageandhope

    If GMC made the allegations, it was both prosecutor and judge. In response to Dorit, see. Andrew J. Wakefield’s detailed chapter on Brian Deer in his book, “Callous Disregard…” (Ch. 12) http://www.callous-disregard dot com.

    See Ch. 13, “Poisoning Young Minds” on the propaganda whose roots are to be found in “emergent Nazi Germany circa 1935.” (Ch. 13, p. 223). Read the Afterword, “Ethics, Evidence, and the Death of Medicine,” co-written with James Moody, Esq. (First appeared in The Autism File magazine, now online, April 2010. First paragraph: “The core finding by the [GMC]… against Dr. Wakefield and Professors Walker-Smith and Murch (The Lancet doctors) is that they performed unethical research on autistic children – children in whom they discovered a new bowel disease. Not to minimize the importance of ethics in medicine, the finding is of a “technical” violation because there was no finding that any child was harmed, only that for some children the diagnostic tests were not yet approved by the Royal Free’s ethics committee. However, as shown in detail below, the documentary evidence demonstrates beyond all reasonable doubt that the diagnostic tests on The Lancet children were performed according to clinical need, that the research portion of the case series was approved by the E.C., and that responsible officials at the Royal Free were well aware of the scope of the relevant approvals at the time and made no objection. At the same time, the GMC improperly reclassified routine clinical care as research and ignored pre-existing EC approval for research on bowel biopsies. The legacy of this trial threatens far more than The Lancet doctors, not only by denying autistic children the diagnostic tests and treatments they so desperately need but also by terrorizing doctors into depriving their patients of the innovative diagnostic and therapeutic interventions they deserve in favor of the relative safety of mediocrity in medicine.” (“Afterword…,” Callous Disregard…, pp. 233-234.

  • Dorit Reiss

    A. Procedures in GMC: The GMC held three years of hearings, and the findings against Andrew Wakefield were in each case supported either by his own admission or by extensive documentary evidence. Under U.S. administrative law Andrew Wakefield had full due process before his conviction. He decided not to appeal it (probably because of the low chances of success, given the evidence) – his choice, but his book is not a substitute to an appeal. The conviction stands.

    B. It’s true that the inappropriate procedures on the children were part of the allegations, but they were certainly not the only allegations.

    C. Here is a paper examining in detail parts of Callous Disregard and showing Andrew Wakefield’s inaccuracies in important part of the book: http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tovacj/articles/V006/TOVACJ20131126002.pdf.

    Given Andrew Wakefield’s history of misleading statements – before and in Callous Disregard – at some point, his word is no longer good enough without extensive collaborating testimony and documentary evidence. The external testimony and documentary evidence go the other way: they show his behavior to be extremely problematic, in his research and out of it.

    Andrew Wakefield appears to be extremely charismatic and eloquent: an excellent salesman. His adherents are very devoted. But given his record, people outside his tiny band of devoted admirers should, appropriately, regard what he says with skepticism. There are only so many second chances a person should be given. Especially when he has done so much harm to children.

  • courageandhope

    Dr. Wakefield was not “under US administrative law” re the GMC hearings held in Britain. We don’t have a counterpart to the GMC in the US, so I’d be careful trying to draw analogies. Attorney James Moody wrote in the Postscript to “Callous Disregard,” “Dr. Wakefield has been attacked in an orchestrated campaign to “discredit” him and his research, an attack which included the longest running “show trial” in the history of the UK’s licensing body, the General Medical Council (GMC). Sadly, this “kangaroo court” was an orgy of prosecutorial misconduct, false testimony, and mischaracterization of appropriate clinical care of desperately sick children spun as “unethical” research…” (Andrew J. Wakefield, “Callous Disregard…”, pp. 268-269.l The Joel Harrison piece you cite at benthamscience strikes me as a hit piece. It says right in the piece it was written for the express purpose of trying to get more people to vaccinate. That is generally the reason given for intentionally attempting to discredit Dr. Wakefield.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Your critique was a procedural critique – that the GMC process was a “show trial,” and that it was both prosecutor and judge. I agree that U.S. administrative law does not apply, but the standards of due process are a good matrix to evaluate the process – and this process meets or exceeds them. Hardly a kangaroo court. Of course Andrew Wakefield is unhappy with a process that found against him – but again, his word, at this point, isn’t worth much.

    Andrew Wakefield was a media darling for several years after his claims. Then the findings came out about his ethics violation. These finding are extensively documented. He has only himself to blame.

    I’m sorry you do not like Dr. Harrison’s article. But it goes through Andrew Wakefield’s claims and demonstrates that Wakefield misrepresented research he himself quoted, cherry picked and ignored other research, and generally misrepresented the facts in Callous Disregard. Like Brian Deer’s research, it’s extensively documented.

  • courageandhope

    I would just be careful about offering your legal analysis and opinion on Dr. Wakefield’s case if you are not a licensed attorney. It seems mean-spirited to continue to try to tear down the character of Dr. Wakefield. One might wonder why you bother.

  • Dorit Reiss

    A. “I would just be careful about offering your legal analysis and opinion on Dr. Wakefield’s case if you are not a licensed attorney. ” You do not need to be a licensed attorney to offer a legal opinion, as opposed to legal advice. In fact, as part of my job as law professor, I’m supposed to have legal opinions.

    B. Since Andrew Wakefield’s small, flawed and debunked study is recurrently brought up in the discussion, it is a little hard to leave him out of the discussion. I didn’t bring him up here. But since he’s brought up as support of an argument, it’s completely appropriate to point out his conviction and the problems in his behavior, to highlight the lack of credibility of his claims. Especially when those claims are used to put children at risk of diseases.

  • courageandhope

    Dorit, he doesn’t have a conviction. That is in criminal law. If you don’t know what you are talking about, you are in danger of leading people astray. Anyone who wishes to hear the other side of the story, the story the mass media has shamefully failed to tell, can start with reading Dr. Wakefield’s book, checking out his videos on youtube or TheAutismChannel, TheAutismFile.com, http://www.cryshame.org,, and reading the books “Silenced Witnesses,” the parents’ stories of the autistic children he and the team treated for serious bowel disease. (ed. Martin Walker, http://www.slingshotpublications.com.) There’s an online documentary on Brian Deer, “Selective Hearing.” Bill Long’s piece at TheAutismFile, “On Second Looking into the Case of Dr. Andrew J. Wakefield.” Bill Long, MDiv, PhD, JD, Issue 31, 2009, pp
    66-81.

  • Dorit Reiss

    You’re right that this is not a criminal conviction. It’s a disciplinary determination, and I am frankly unsure whether or not conviction is appropriate or inappropriate here. The words of the GMC are: “Accordingly the Panel finds Dr Wakefield guilty of serious professional misconduct.” Would found guilty be better than convicted? http://www.gmc-uk.org/Wakefield_SPM_and_SANCTION.pdf_32595267.pdf

    Of course Andrew Wakefield claims differently. And it’s natural for the parents for whom he did the study, giving them exactly what they wanted (against the rules of ethics, and against the requirements of the scientific method) to appreciate his efforts. People will certainly draw their own conclusion – but they deserve to have before them the evidence of Andrew Wakefield’s many previous inaccuracies, to allow them to decide which weight to give to his claims. Attacking Brian Deer, as well, won’t make the extensive documentary evidence that Deer amassed go away: http://briandeer.com/solved/solved.htm.

  • courageandhope

    That is why you have to be careful comparing British law to US law. In the US, if you say someone has a criminal conviction and they don’t, that is legally actionable defamation. You just, technically, committed defamation against Dr. Wakefield.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I disagree. I did not use the word “criminal”, and I am not at all sure that conviction is not the right term to refer to the GMC’s decision. It’s at least arguably the correct term. He was found guilty, after all.

  • ChrisKid

    I have read Andrew Wakefield’s book, and I’ve heard him speak. Along with that, I’ve read the reports from and about the GMC hearing. The book is one long excuse, when he isn’t blaming other people for problems he caused himself. No matter how many times you try to claim otherwise, or how he tries to spin it, the fact is, the GMC revoked his registration as a licensed doctor in the UK because of his own proven unethical behavior, beginning with taking money to find the results he then did, conveniently, claim to have found, moving on through a lack of ethical approval for his study, and including the abuse of children.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Even without the restrictions on defamation suits by public figures, there’s no claim here. Of course, that hasn’t stopped anti-vaccine activists in the past. Lacking evidence and arguments on their side, other anti-vaccine figures have brought bogus libel suits before: http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/handling-debate-by-threatening-legal-action-anti-vaccination-activists-in-israel/

  • ChrisKid

    2000+. All compensated for brain damage? Out of how many vaccine doses in the same time period, and over how many years? I think you’ve just proven that vaccines are one of the safest medical interventions ever used. What’s the rate of injury, given those numbers you have yet to provide? Let’s see the percentages, because those are what count.
    Oh, and those ‘fifty shots by kindergarten’? Doesn’t happen. Why do you feel the need to be deceptive about it to make a point?

  • ChrisKid

    Part of the reason is that people like you keep insisting that research money be diverted to continue to flog the dead horse that is the vaccine/autism connection. If that money had been used for research to find the actual cause, there might have been more progress by now. Along with that, why would you expect instant answers to a very complex question?

  • courageandhope

    No matter what the situation in the UK, you are talking to a United States audience who will be likely to hear in the word “conviction” that criminal proceedings have taken place. They have not, and you must know it. If you are unsure of the law of defamation, please consult with attorneys who do know the law before you use the word “conviction so freely.” You may have all day to mull over the niceties of trashing Dr. Wakefield’s repuation. It seems mean-spirited to me.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Andrew Wakefield’s reputation has been ruined by his own actions: his choice to hide conflicts of interests, engage in problematic research practices, make unsupported, inaccurate statements to the press, and so forth. Actions that had costs in terms of children’s health. Actions for which he had never expressed remorse. Anyone who chooses to place their faith in a man with his record can expect to hear criticism.

    Your interpretation of my words is, of course, your own.

  • Dorit Reiss

    As, by the way, is your interpretation of the law of defamation.

  • courageandhope

    Did you look up the law yet, before you are so sure I am wrong? Did you consult with practicing, licensed lawyers? Look up “false light.” I am done arguing with you. It’s silly and trivial how you persist. Surely you must have other more important things to do that quibble over the right words with which to trash Dr. Wakefield.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Sigh. Defamatory statements are statements that harm an individual’s reputation. I really don’t need to look anything up to know that falsely accusing someone of having a criminal conviction harms their reputation. However, the claim that the term “conviction” alone does not cover a disciplinary proceeding, or that using it in a thread that talks about his being found guilty of serious misconduct by the GMC is in anyway defamatory, is your own reading. Unless you can produce appropriate case law, it’s unsupported.

  • Dorit Reiss

    In this thread so far, you have:
    A. Wrongly tried to claim that I’m not allowed to express a legal opinion on an issue.
    B. Claimed without evidence that the proceeding Wakefield was subjected to was tainted. While you did not use the term “due process” – I brought that in – your claim was in essence that he was denied due process of the law. There is no evidence of that: the length of the proceeding, the reasoned opinion, the opportunity to call witnesses and provide evidence and the availability of an appeal – which Andrew Wakefield, best placed to assess his chances, chose not to use – all suggest the opposite.
    C. Accused me of defamation with no real foundation and implied a threat of a law suit.

    Naturally, I saw fit to correct those statements. I understand that you have limited tools to defend Andrew Wakefield, given what stands against him, but don’t expect me not to respond to tactics like this.

  • courageandhope

    If you aren’t sure, check before you write.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Your attempts to chill my free speech have been noted.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I’d urge you to do the same. If you’re not sure, check before accusing someone of defamation.

  • Dorit Reiss

    I have provided links to the documents regarding Andrew Wakefield’s GMC case. I have expressed my opinion why his counter claims should be approached with healthy skepticism. The readers can draw their own conclusions.

  • courageandhope

    Oxford English Dictionary defines conviction as “a formal declaration by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law that someone is guilty of a criminal offense.” Oxford University Press 2014. The General Medical Council fitness to practice hearing was not a criminal court, and no criminal charges were involved. Rather, Dr. Wakefield received a “determination” and a “sanction,” having his name erased from the medical register. “Conviction” would be the wrong word and one which would place Dr. Wakefield in a false light by associating him with crimes and criminals in the minds of readers, when he never committed any crimes and was never charged with any.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Dictionary.com includes “the act of convicting; a declaration that a person is guilty of an offense.”

    Do you really want to continue this argument? Anyone reading the thread would have gotten the reference from the fact that the thread opened by discussing the GMC decision against him. It takes substantial gymnastics to read this as any type of defamation. It takes very little effort to read it as an attempt on your part to deflect the discussion and silence your interlocutor since you don’t really have a good answer to claims.

  • Linda Tock

    The plural of anecdote will never be data. Anecdotes are not controlled for bias or confounding.

    Data, which is collected in a proper manner and with proper controls – has been collected studying the autism/vaccine list – and has repeatedly shown NO connection between the two.

  • Linda Tock

    When I was a kid, the vaccine schedule injected me with over 3000 antigens in those few shots. Today we have more shots, but the antigen load is down to about 350.

    Our children are better protected against vaccine preventable diseases than we were as children, and they’re getting fewer antigens, too.

  • Linda Tock

    There are no trace amounts of mercury in any childhood shot, Cia. We’ve been over this. You’ve been shown your error yet you continue to spout off the same lies.

    The amounts of formaldehyde in vaccines is negligible compared to the amounts our bodies produce naturally.

    All of the vaccine ingredients are in microgram amounts – too small to cause the damage you claim.

    (and mercury poisoning and autism still don’t share symptoms, either)

  • Linda Tock

    You cannot use a *Drinking water guideline* for elemental mercury to say that the amount of thimerosal in vaccines is excessive.

    Drinking water guidelines are good for drinking water ONLY. They’re not applicable to vaccines, to drugs, to food, to air – they’re drinking water only.

  • Linda Tock

    …and that’s why the sample size has to be adequate.

  • Linda Tock

    “Genetic predisposition to store it in the brain’ – so what’s this ‘condition’ called? What’s the enzyme or metabolic pathway that does this?

  • courageandhope

    It is easy enough to say, whoops, I should have checked into that more carefully before I posted. Then people can have confidence in your opinions. I feel embarrassed for you. It is important not to say someone has a conviction when they do not. If you don’t know the law, do us all a favor and find out before you post. You don’t have to keep rabbiting on, trying to browbeat people.

  • Dorit Reiss

    There is no need to feel embarrassed for me, but thank you. I know the law about defamation (enough to know, for example, that the false light doctrine does not apply to Andrew Wakefield, who is a public person). I don’t see a problem with anything I said here. This discussion, from my point of view, is a distraction from the main point: that Andrew Wakefield’s ethical misconduct had been proven in a lengthy, suitable procedure; that he chose not to appeal the decision; that there is evidence after the fact of misrepresentations in the paper; that many of his statements in Callous Disregard were demonstrated by Dr. Harrison to be inaccurate; and therefore, that his claims on any matter related to science and vaccines deserve to be treated with substantial skepticism.
    Accusations of defamation based on taking one word out of context won’t make these facts go away.

  • courageandhope

    Denied all the way around. A. You certainly expressed your opinion-how would I have stopped you? People can read “Callous Disregard” for well-documented evidence as to the fairness of the GMC hearing–right in the book I cited, and they can look up the references in the book for more information. B. It is good to be careful with legal language. Legal words have precise meanings. C. Many statements have been made with the malicious intent to damage the character or reputation of Dr. Wakefield. Some of those statements are legally actionable. Some alleged defamatory statements are the subject of a current defamation suit by Dr. Wakefield against Brian Deer, the BMJ, and its editor, those alleging Dr. Wakefield’s Lancet paper was based on fraudulent research (awaiting decision on jurisdictional grounds in the Texas Third Court of Appeals). I am more interested in truth than tactics. I meant to give you some good advice. I stated my opinions which are different from yours; there is no need to feel threatened or accused. I am sorry you did. Have a good day.

  • Boris Ogon

    “Some alleged defamatory statements are the subject of a current defamation suit by Dr. Wakefield against Brian Deer, the BMJ, and its editor”

    The beauty of which is that whichever way the appeal goes, Wakefraud loses. (It was of course widely speculated at the time that the only reason he would do something so stupid as to try to assert Texas jurisdiction was to play the martyr card. After all, he could have sued in the most plaintiff-friendly venue in the solar system, now couldn’t he have? He had certainly judgment-proofed his house well in advance. And now he’s getting antsy.)

    The *only* people who aren’t praying to high heaven that Wakers wins the appeal so that he can run full-speed into the anti-SLAPP motion without a seatbelt are those who would have to pay for the spectacle.

    But, hey, given that you’re already babbling about people making “actionable” statements in DISQUS COMMENTS, which you are no doubt aware that courts take vewy, vewy, sewiously, maybe you can show up pro hac vice if he hits the jackpot.

  • courageandhope

    There are some things that are just plain wrong to do, whether or not you fear a lawsuit, Deliberately saying bad things about a man with the intent to destroy his reputation/career is one of them. There has never been anything like the systematic, orchestrated effort to tear down the credibility of Dr. Wakefield, and it sets a bad precedent for anyone who stands up to medical authorities. Sixteen years ago, Dr. Wakefield said what the Cochrane Review 2012 for MMR is still saying today: the safety studies are largely inadequate. The report Cochrane made, it made on inadequate information. It is difficult to hear in the vaccine conversation anyone saying today what Dr. Bernadine Healy said in her interview with Sharyl Atkinson on CBS several years ago: we have the tools now to find the children who are most susceptible to vaccine damage, to study them and learn from them how to make vaccines safer for all children. Don’t deny their injuries, don’t hide them away because you are afraid people will no longer trust the vaccine campaign if you admit some children have been harmed. Tell people the whole truth if you want them to trust the vaccine campaign. It is the truth that will best protect children.

  • courageandhope

    Yes, these claims are the subject of Dr. Wakefield’s slander and defamation case against Brian Deer, the British Medical Journal, and its editor Dr. Fiona Godlee, currently awaiting decision on jurisdictional issues in the Texas Third Court of Appeals.

  • Dorit Reiss

    Anyone can sue for anything. Even if Andrew Wakefield wins on jurisdiction, that’s a far cry from winning on the merits, and at this point, the points stand. These are pretty well documented claims. There is also Nicholas Chadwick’s testimony in the omnibus proceeding, under which the samples used for the lancet article did not show the presence of the measles virus, and Andrew Wakefield was told of that. That’s not what the paper said. http://briandeer.com/wakefield/nick-chadwick.htm

    http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/06/27/andrew-wakefield-and-the-death-of-the-mmr-debacle/

  • Dorit Reiss

    Here, by the way, is the appellees brief in Andrew Wakefield’s slander case, detailing the previous cases in England, dismissed with costs: http://www.search.txcourts.gov/SearchMedia.aspx?MediaVersionID=915fb063-6644-4bf5-a9be-c95bf2e329a5&coa=coa03&DT=Brief&MediaID=0192bc51-bc50-47a5-b73c-e3f9d79d73d2.

    It’s of course just the appellees’ point of view, but the fact that Andrew Wakefield had to withdraw his claims in England – where the law of defamation’s much more plaintiff-friendly than in the U.S. – does not suggest a particularly strong case.

  • nancy Alfred

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  • Bradley Speck

    I want to thank Dr Akim for helping me to get my love back.My boyfriend broke up with me 2 months ago and told me he is not interested in me anymore and i want him back so badly that i went to the net and in searching for help and i saw so many good talk about this spell caster and i contact him and explain my problems to him and he cast a spell for me which i use to get my boyfiend back.If you need his help email:UNIQUELOVESPELLCENTER@YAHOO.COM or call him on his mobile phone +2348159645271

  • Bradley Speck

    I want to thank Dr Akim for helping me to get my love back.My boyfriend broke up with me 2 months ago and told me he is not interested in me anymore and i want him back so badly that i went to the net and in searching for help and i saw so many good talk about this spell caster and i contact him and explain my problems to him and he cast a spell for me which i use to get my boyfiend back.If you need his help email:UNIQUELOVESPELLCENTER@YAHOO.COM or call him on his mobile phone +2348159645271

  • update

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