Originally broadcast March 14, 2008

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Easter or Pascha is this weekend (April 4) for both Western and Eastern Orthodox Christians. Because of differing church calendars, the two branches of Christianity often celebrate Easter on different dates. But as Kim Lawton reports, their celebrations reflect shared beliefs about the Christian faith.

KIM LAWTON, correspondent: During Holy Week, churches around the world echo the familiar refrain that proclaims a central tenet of Christianity: Jesus Christ was crucified, died, and was buried, but three days later he rose from the dead. Eastern Orthodox and Western Christians alike say celebration of the Resurrection is the most important event on the church calendar.

MS. FREDERICA MATHEWES-GREEN (Holy Cross Antiochian Orthodox Church): This is the victory of Jesus Christ over sin, over death. It’s what sets us free. In comparison, Christmas is not that important. We like Christmas. Everybody does. But the whole point of our salvation is embodied on Pascha.

WALT WANGERIN JR (Author, “Paul: A Novel”): This is the very center of what we believe, of who we are, of what our identity is, of why we continue to return to the Lord in joy. Without Easter, there is no church.

LAWTON: More often than not, Eastern Orthodox and Western Christians celebrate the Resurrection on different days. But a growing number of American church leaders say this should change.

FATHER RON ROBERSON (National Conference of Catholic Bishops): The credibility of the Christian message really gets compromised when people on the outside see that we can’t even agree on when to celebrate the central mystery of our faith.

LAWTON: Conflicts over the celebration of the Resurrection stretch back to the beginning days of Christianity. Early church leaders wanted all Christians to celebrate the Resurrection on the same day, after the Jewish Passover. To that end, a council of bishops in the fourth century decreed that Easter would fall on the first Sunday after the first full moon, after the spring equinox. But as the Roman Empire divided between the Greek-speaking East and the Latin-speaking West, the church world also split. When Westerners adopted the new Gregorian calendar in the 16th century, the East kept the Julian calendar. Since the two calendars have differing dates for the equinox and full moon, in most years Easter falls on different Sundays.

LAWTON: During Holy Week, churches mark their beliefs with special services. In the Eastern Orthodox tradition, these services are especially numerous and lengthy. One unique observance is the service of holy unction on Wednesday night.

MS. MATHEWES-GREEN: At the conclusion of this service, the members of the church line up and come forward for anointing, for healing. In the Orthodox Church, we still have a lively belief that Jesus heal, that we need healing of our souls and our bodies.

LAWTON: On Holy or Good Friday, Christians remember the Crucifixion. According to many theologians, of all the traditions Roman Catholics tend to give special emphasis on the suffering and death of Jesus. Through the Stations of the Cross, or in dramatic productions, Catholics often reenact the journey to the Crucifixion.

Some Protestants gather Friday evening in a solemn worship service that remembers the Crucifixion through the taking of Communion.

Catholics and many Protestants traditionally strip their altars bare. Statues and crosses are covered in purple or black cloths, the shrouds of death.

In Eastern Orthodox churches, a shroud showing Christ’s body is actually carried in a funeral procession around the church and then laid in a tomb adorned with flowers.

MR. WANGERIN: What should be experienced on that day by these very specific traditions is the sense that the Lord died. There is, and there ought to be, a sense of mourning at this point, the mourning that the disciples felt when Jesus gave up the ghost and breathed his last.

LAWTON: Eastern Orthodox and growing numbers of Catholics and Protestants begin celebrating the triumph of the Resurrection Saturday night, before midnight.

FATHER ROBERSON: It is the celebration of darkness and light. The church starts in the darkness, and there is that light of a single candle, which then is spread out all through the congregation. It is a real celebration of the hope and the meaning that the Resurrection of Christ brings to our lives.

LAWTON: In many Orthodox traditions, the service spills out into the street, processing outside the church.

MS. MATHEWES-GREEN: We sing over and over “Christ is risen from the dead, trampling death by death, and upon those in the tomb, bestowing life.” We’ll say it over and over, shouting it out, rejoicing at what Christ has freed us from, and what he’s freed us to.

LAWTON: Some Protestants also gather in darkness, in a pre-dawn Easter sunrise service. Others gather later Sunday morning, with joyous pageantry and celebration.

MR. WANGERIN: Easter should be for us a genuine joy, not just in our minds, but also in our physical experience — that for awhile, death was all that existed, but coming with Easter is the remarkable, surprising grace that death is overcome. Christians say to one another, “He is risen,” and the answer is, “He is risen indeed.”

LAWTON: And despite differing traditions and rituals and even days of celebration, church leaders say that is the ultimate — and unifying — Easter message.

FATHER ROBERSON: We celebrate a single reality of Jesus coming into the world, the son of God becoming incarnate and entering into our lives. And we celebrate the central reality of his death for our sins — that he suffered and died for us, and on the third day, he rose from the dead.

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Now, as we mentioned earlier, Western Christians are celebrating Holy Week and Easter, their most sacred time of the year. In the many special services and observances that take place during Holy Week, music plays a crucial role in setting the mood of the worship and in helping to convey the Easter message. Kim Lawton has our report.

CHOIR #1 (singing): Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia.

KIM LAWTON: Easter is the most important day on the church calendar, and for Christians, the music of the season is central to the celebration.

Canon VICTORIA SIROTA (Author, “Preaching to the Choir” and Pastor, The Cathedral Church of Saint John the Divine, New York): The awesome thing about Easter is the way in which it takes what would have been a tremendous tragedy — the death of Jesus on Good Friday — and turns it into the great triumph of God over death.

CHOIR #1 (singing): And He shall reign forever and ever.

Canon SIROTA: The message is encoded in the music.

CHOIR #1 (singing): And He shall reign forever and ever.

THOMAS TYLER (Special Assistant to the Pastor for Worship, Shiloh Baptist Church): If there’s anything that’s going to connect to people across any line, any sector, it will be its music.

LAWTON: The importance of music stretches back to the first Holy Week, on Thursday, when Jesus celebrated Passover with his disciples at the Last Supper. According to the Gospel story, they sang a hymn together before they parted.

Canon SIROTA: We don’t know what hymn it was, but it would have been a Hebrew chant that would have been sung at the Passover table. Knowing that Jesus was a singer and that he sang with his disciples makes you realize how ancient this form is.

LAWTON: At Maundy Thursday services, music helps set the mood as Christians begin their annual time of mourning the arrest, prosecution and crucifixion of Jesus.

Thomas Tyler is in charge of worship and music at Shiloh Baptist Church in Washington, D.C. He says it’s spiritually important to sing the songs of grief before celebrating Christ’s resurrection.

Mr. TYLER: We want to skip over the sorrow. We want to skip over the abandonment and go get our praise on. But, if you don’t remember what he went through, then I feel your appreciation for the significance of that resurrection is marginalized.

LAWTON: The most somber practices take place on Good Friday, and the music reflects this.

Canon SIROTA: In general, the songs that we sing on Good Friday are longer. They’re slow. They may be in a minor key. They have a sense of suffering, of sorrow, of mourning.

LAWTON: At the Episcopal Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York, Canon Sirota works with organist Tim Brumfield. They say one of the most common Good Friday hymns, “O Sacred Head Now Wounded,” holds complex theological truths.

Canon SIROTA: What’s amazing about it is the way the music goes between major and minor, uses dissonance notes, resolves them, there’s this underlying sense of conflict that still needs to be resolved. We Christians are thankful to God for the crucifixion. but on Good Friday we spend the time lamenting the fact that Jesus had to die on our behalf.

LAWTON: Another widely sung hymn is “Were You There When They Crucified My Lord?” — an old African-American spiritual.

FEMALE PERFORMER (on stage singing): Sometimes it causes me to tremble.

Canon SIROTA: It’s a very personal piety: “Sometimes it causes me to tremble.” Well, if you’ve been in profound grief, you know what that is.

LAWTON: Although some Easter season music has become universal among Christians, many traditions put the basic theological concepts into their own cultural settings as well.

Mr. TYLER: That culture helps to shape who you are and it’s reflected through how you do what you do, how you go through your — in this case — your spiritual practices.

LAWTON: Many of the crucifixion songs focus on the blood of Christ, which Christians believe atoned for the sins of the world.

Canon SIROTA: The truth of the reality that we are dealing with life and death issues; the idea of blood, which is so horrifying. And when you bleed you are terrified that you are going to die. But to use that as a symbol then of new life, it reminds us that the story doesn’t end there, that we end in resurrection.

LAWTON: And so comes the great transition to Easter Sunday, from mourning to resurrection.

Canon SIROTA: We hear the joy, we hear the triumph. We sing fast music. We sing it joyously. It’s in a major key and it helps us to feel that this is “the day the Lord has made.”

LAWTON: Many Easter songs incorporate the words, “Alleluia” or “Hallelujah.”

CHOIR #2 (singing): Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia.

Canon SIROTA: Alleluia is the Latin form of “praise to God.” Hallelujah is the Hebrew form of “praise to God.” So they’re both ecstatic. And I think the sound of it is why we haven’t translated them. Hallelujah — just that sense of almost moving into the non-verbal. Not a translation of praise to God, but “Hallelujah” — that sheer joy, sheer ecstasy. Not only do we use them especially at Easter, but we don’t say them in the Christian Church during Lent. We bury the Alleluias and return them on Easter Sunday.

Mr. TYLER: Because it’s the highest praise. It’s the highest praise. And on this day, of all days, he deserves what: the highest praise.

LAWTON: There are Easter old standards that are sung with great meaning. One of them is, “Because He Lives.”

CHOIR #3 (singing): Because He lives I can face tomorrow.

Canon SIROTA: Because He lives, I can face tomorrow”. And that is a profound theology.

LAWTON: But there are often new Easter songs too.

YOUTH CHOIR (on stage singing): Our Redeemer lives…

Canon SIROTA: If we stick with all the old music, then somehow there lingers this idea that God is dead. The Holy Spirit in my theology is still moving in the world and is still encouraging us to write new songs.

LAWTON: Perhaps the single most popular Easter song across the Christian spectrum is “Christ the Lord is Risen Today,” also called, “Jesus Christ is Risen Today.”

Canon SIROTA: “Jesus Christ is Risen Today” is one of the great Easter hymns. And one of the wonderful features of it is this Alleluia that comes as the refrain of every single line so it has this ecstatic quality of singing with great joy all these notes.

Mr. TYLER: We celebrate the “now”-ness of the event, even though the event happened over 2,000 years ago. Each time it occurs it’s a fresh experience — a fresh observation.

Canon SIROTA: The core message, which is: “Jesus lives. Jesus was resurrected. Therefore my life has a new meaning. Death is not the end of me.”

CHOIR #4 (singing): Alleluia. Alleluia.

LAWTON: And the music, they say, is key to conveying that message. I’m Kim Lawton reporting.

KIM LAWTON, guest anchor: For Western Christians, Sunday (March 16) is Palm Sunday, which begins Holy Week, leading up to Easter (March 23). But Eastern Orthodox Christians have just begun observing their time of Lent. Because of differing church calendars, Western and Eastern Christians usually celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on different dates. This year, the celebrations are especially far apart — five weeks. Over the centuries, distinct Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox Holy Week practices have developed, but theologians say those different practices all reflect shared beliefs about the Christian faith.

During Holy Week, churches around the world echo the familiar refrain that proclaims a central tenet of Christianity: Jesus Christ was crucified, died, and was buried, but three days later he rose from the dead. Eastern Orthodox and Western Christians alike say celebration of the Resurrection is the most important event on the church calendar.

MS. FREDERICA MATHEWES-GREEN (Holy Cross Antiochian Orthodox Church): This is the victory of Jesus Christ over sin, over death. It’s what sets us free. In comparison, Christmas is not that important. We like Christmas. Everybody does. But the whole point of our salvation is embodied on Pascha.

WALT WANGERIN, JR. (author, “Paul: A Novel”): This is the very center of what we believe, of who we are, of what our identity is, of why we continue to return to the Lord in joy. Without Easter, there is no church.

LAWTON: More often than not, Eastern Orthodox and Western Christians celebrate the Resurrection on different days. But a growing number of American church leaders say this should change.

FATHER RON ROBERSON (National Conference of Catholic Bishops): The credibility of the Christian message really gets compromised when people on the outside see that we can’t even agree on when to celebrate the central mystery of our faith.

LAWTON: Conflicts over the celebration of the Resurrection stretch back to the beginning days of Christianity. Early church leaders wanted all Christians to celebrate the Resurrection on the same day, after the Jewish Passover. To that end, a council of bishops in the fourth century decreed that Easter would fall on the first Sunday after the first full moon, after the spring equinox. But as the Roman Empire divided between the Greek-speaking East and the Latin-speaking West, the church world also split. When Westerners adopted the new Gregorian calendar in the 16th century, the East kept the Julian calendar. Since the two calendars have differing dates for the equinox and full moon, in most years Easter falls on different Sundays.

LAWTON: During Holy Week, churches mark their beliefs with special services. In the Eastern Orthodox tradition, these services are especially numerous and lengthy. One unique observance is the service of holy unction on Wednesday night.

MS. MATHEWES-GREEN: At the conclusion of this service, the members of the church line up and come forward for anointing, for healing. In the Orthodox Church, we still have a lively belief that Jesus heal, that we need healing of our souls and our bodies.

LAWTON: On Holy or Good Friday, Christians remember the Crucifixion. According to many theologians, of all the traditions Roman Catholics tend to give special emphasis on the suffering and death of Jesus. Through the Stations of the Cross, or in dramatic productions, Catholics often reenact the journey to the Crucifixion.

Some Protestants gather Friday evening in a solemn worship service that remembers the Crucifixion through the taking of Communion.

Catholics and many Protestants traditionally strip their altars bare. Statues and crosses are covered in purple or black cloths, the shrouds of death.

In Eastern Orthodox churches, a shroud showing Christ’s body is actually carried in a funeral procession around the church and then laid in a tomb adorned with flowers.

MR. WANGERIN: What should be experienced on that day by these very specific traditions is the sense that the Lord died. There is, and there ought to be, a sense of mourning at this point, the mourning that the disciples felt when Jesus gave up the ghost and breathed his last.

LAWTON: Eastern Orthodox and growing numbers of Catholics and Protestants begin celebrating the triumph of the Resurrection Saturday night, before midnight.

FATHER ROBERSON: It is the celebration of darkness and light. The church starts in the darkness, and there is that light of a single candle, which then is spread out all through the congregation. It is a real celebration of the hope and the meaning that the Resurrection of Christ brings to our lives.

LAWTON: In many Orthodox traditions, the service spills out into the street, processing outside the church.

MS. MATHEWES-GREEN: We sing over and over “Christ is risen from the dead, trampling death by death, and upon those in the tomb, bestowing life.” We’ll say it over and over, shouting it out, rejoicing at what Christ has freed us from, and what he’s freed us to.

LAWTON: Some Protestants also gather in darkness, in a pre-dawn Easter sunrise service. Others gather later Sunday morning, with joyous pageantry and celebration.

MR. WANGERIN: Easter should be for us a genuine joy, not just in our minds, but also in our physical experience — that for awhile, death was all that existed, but coming with Easter is the remarkable, surprising grace that death is overcome. Christians say to one another, “He is risen,” and the answer is, “He is risen indeed.”

LAWTON: And despite differing traditions and rituals and even days of celebration, church leaders say that is the ultimate — and unifying — Easter message.

FATHER ROBERSON: We celebrate a single reality of Jesus coming into the world, the son of God becoming incarnate and entering into our lives. And we celebrate the central reality of his death for our sins — that he suffered and died for us, and on the third day, he rose from the dead.

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Now, a special Easter report. Last year at this time, we profiled two pastors in New Orleans. Both were in their first years at their churches when Katrina hit. They were working hard to comfort their congregations and help rebuild their communities, all while dealing with their own losses. Given the lack of progress in so many areas of New Orleans, we wanted to check back with those same pastors. Kim Lawton asked them how they are reflecting on the themes of the Easter season this year.

KIM LAWTON: Palm Sunday in the Broodmoor neighborhood of New Orleans. Members of the Episcopal Church of the Annunciation are remembering Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem just before the crucifixion, and they are praying for the renewal of their own city. Rector Jerry Kramer says it’s a bittersweet time here.

Reverend JERRY KRAMER (Rector, Church of the Annunciation): Good things are happening, and we need to dwell on those things, but we still have an incredible road in front of us. And I just — there’s no way people around the country have any clue what we’re dealing with here, and the uphill fight that we’re enduring right now.

LAWTON: Across town at First Street United Methodist Church, Pastor Lance Eden says day to day his people still feel stuck between the suffering of Good Friday and the hope of Easter Sunday.

Reverend LANCE EDEN (Pastor, First Street United Methodist Church): Saturday where you’re just waiting and waiting and waiting, and it doesn’t seem like there’s any movement, anything happening. When will Sunday come?

LAWTON: Nineteen months after Hurricane Katrina, recovery in New Orleans remains painfully slow. Residents are more frustrated than ever by the official response at the city, state and federal levels. In that context, Eden and Kramer say, themes of the Easter season resonate in new and poignant ways.

Last year, Church of the Annunciation was worshipping in a doublewide trailer. Only about half of the congregation members had returned. Their church had been ruined by the waters that had flooded it for weeks after Katrina. They had planned replace it with a new modular building. But then they realized it would be cheaper to try and salvage the old church. So they’ve begun worshipping there again, even though there’s still no electricity or heat, and the cross on the roof still hasn’t been repaired.

Rev. KRAMER: You know, it is home even without power and flooring and walls and things like that. We’re home.

LAWTON: The congregation now has more people worshipping with them than there were before the storm. Many new members were drawn by Annunciation’s active role in relief efforts and community rebuilding. They’ve started renovating part of the old building in order to house the faith-based volunteers who still come in steady streams. They’re calling the project Resurrection House.

Rev. KRAMER: God didn’t cause this storm. Where God comes in is in the redemption of it, and in the resurrection, which again doesn’t mean resuscitation. It means something new. It’s a new environment here, and you have to adapt to be relevant to bring the Gospel forward in this environment. 

(speaking to volunteers): This is where you saw people on the rooftops being pulled off and “Help us, help us.” All in here. Every patch of green that you see had a house on it pre-Katrina.

(to young woman): Where did you live?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: My mother was right around the corner here.

Rev. KRAMER: Okay.

LAWTON: In addition to working in the Broadmoor neighborhood, Annunciation and its teams of volunteers have been active in the devastated predominantly African-American Lower Ninth Ward, where many churches were destroyed. They have a new mission church there called All Souls. It was started to meet the spiritual needs of the few who’ve come back.

Rev. KRAMER: You know, pre-Katrina I would have had no business going down to the Lower Ninth Ward. I didn’t know where it was. Now I have friends there. I mean, that’s grace, and that’s something God is up to in this mess.

Rev. EDEN (preaching): You may be sick, busted, and disgusted. Produce anyway.

LAWTON: First Street United Methodist Church, which suffered little damage during the storm, has also grown. The congregation has almost tripled, in part because of nearby church closings, and in part because of the church’s increasingly visible role as a community organizer.

Rev. EDEN: But we’ve had a large influx of persons who are of other denominations, who are not United Methodists, who have become a part of our church and are looking for a church that’s really doing something.

LAWTON: Last year the church partnered with a secular non-profit group, the Hands-On Network, to host and organize volunteers. Temporary housing was put up in the church’s multipurpose room. A year later the bunk beds, now well-worn, are still there, while the network looks for a more permanent home. The volunteers have gutted and repaired thousands of homes and helped clean up the community. But rising crime in their neighborhood is placing new pressure on ministry.

Rev. EDEN: From that corner to this corner is where a lot of the shootings happen, and as the church and the Hands-On organization, we’ve had to pay $6,000 a month to continue to keep a police officer on guard to protect the volunteers and the people in the community.

LAWTON: Eden had been out of seminary only a couple of months when Katrina hit. He says he’s learned a lot about being a leader.

Rev. EDEN: As a pastor, learning how not to take the mess of church folk and put my foot down — being 28 years old and some of them are twice my age — and say no, it’s not happening that way; that’s not what God has called us to do.

(speaking at conference): But we are in transition, and transition means that we’re going somewhere.

LAWTON: He has also become a prominent voice calling for more grassroots action to fight for social justice in the city.

Rev. EDEN (speaking at conference): I’m crazy enough and radical enough to believe that we do have hope here today. I’m not counting it out. It’s not over ’til God says it’s over.

LAWTON: Both ministers have faced new personal challenges over the past year. It wasn’t until the end of this past February that Kramer and his family were finally able to move back into their home.

(to Stacy Kramer): Wow, looks good.

STACY KRAMER: Thanks. We pretty much sealed this room. It was leaking like a sieve.

LAWTON: How much water did you have in here?

Rev. KRAMER: 7.9 –

LAWTON: Feet?

Rev. and Mrs. KRAMER (simultaneously): Feet! Yes, feet.

LAWTON: It took more than a year to sort everything out with the contractors and the insurance company.

Rev. KRAMER: The big problem with insurance companies is, you know, they want you to take the quick settlement, and we were just blessed, you know, to be in a position where we could fight it for a good year, year and a half.

LAWTON: Kramer gets frustrated when people suggest that New Orleans shouldn’t be rebuilt.

Rev. KRAMER: Are we really going to fail here? As the American nation, are we going to let this fail? Are we going to admit defeat?

LAWTON: Still, he acknowledges the victories here are all hard fought, and the battles take a toll.

Rev. KRAMER: It’s still really hard and we don’t really — I was sharing with the congregation Sunday — don’t see any light at the end of the tunnel yet. I’m tired. We’ve been doing this for a long time, and I’m tired.

LAWTON: He says last month his morale reached its lowest point since Katrina.

Rev. KRAMER: You have to absorb a lot of people’s pain and hurt constantly, and then you look at issues on sort of the macro level, with the total collapse of government here, absolutely, and the incredibly slow pace of something resembling progress. It wears you down.

LAWTON: Even the Episcopal bishop, Charles Jenkins of the Diocese of Louisiana, recently acknowledged that he has post-traumatic stress disorder.

Rev. KRAMER: Well, I mean we have about 200,000 people in the city right now, and we probably all have post-traumatic stress disorder. Just some are brave enough to admit it. But we’re all wounded in some way.

LAWTON: Do you ever feel like, “Okay, I did my duty. Now it’s time for someone else to step up”?

Rev. KRAMER: Never. And, boy, do I get that. But I am not leaving my people. I’m not leaving my flock. And I would be a bad pastor if I did.

LAWTON: The challenges, he says, are teaching important spiritual lessons.

Rev. KRAMER: You know faith is being out in the storm in the boat and the waves rocking you and not being able to see the light, not being able to see the shoreline and still going forward. That’s faith, and that’s what we’re learning.

LAWTON: Last year, Lance Eden told us his 84-year-old grandmother helped center him spiritually. We followed along as he took her to see the damage Katrina had done to the family cemetery. She passed away days before we returned this year. Eden took me back to the cemetery to show me where she would be buried.

Rev. EDEN: This is home, this is home. And I think it’s okay, because she’s going to be home. She wasn’t just a grandmother, but she was a teacher, she was a counselor, a person I could tell anything, and I mean anything, to and as a pastor you don’t have a lot of friends like that. And who becomes that root, that grounding? Definitely the Lord above. But on earth who becomes that, that can fill that void? I don’t know yet.

LAWTON: Eden had been living in his grandmother’s home prior to the storm. Katrina destroyed almost everything, except the outer walls. He now owns that house and hopes to begin rebuilding in the next few months. In the meantime, he still sleeps in his church office. He says he and his people deeply feel the Good Friday theme of being abandoned.

Rev. EDEN: A lot abandoned, a lot abandoned by their city government, a lot abandoned by our state government and our national government.

LAWTON: He says that has changed their understanding of Easter hope.

Rev. EDEN: The hope now, I think, is much different. I think that the hope now is that we’re going to have to do it ourselves, and looking at the power of being able to come up out of a grave through the help of the Lord, and nobody else but the Lord.

LAWTON: Despite the ongoing struggles, both pastors say resurrection is very present in the lives and work of ordinary people.

Rev. EDEN: Every time a volunteer crosses our door, or you see a charter bus of volunteers coming, I see the hope and the resurrection. Neighborhoods that are pulling together, people in the community who are from New Orleans who are pulling together to make a difference, we see hope there.

Rev. KRAMER: Absolutely, if you have eyes of faith and eyes to see, God is moving here powerfully in people’s lives and in the community. You have to look for it. But, you know, we see little mustard seeds blossoming here and there, and heck, yeah, that’ll preach on Easter Sunday.

LAWTON: Easter Sunday, and likely long beyond it.

I’m Kim Lawton in New Orleans.